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Would the Raven Guard only wear Mk 6 armour? I know that Mk 6 was issued to them by the emperor because they liked the helmets and such, but because of the events on Istvann V would they have to revert to using the older versions of power armour? Just looking for an excuse to use the B@C marines as RG really and not much else, so any advice would help!

Post drop site yes, because the armor was delivered to deliverance by a company of IF who were able to get it off of mars during the schism. And lore wise they were insulted at first because it was named corvus and avian in design so they thought they were being mocked.

No, Post Drop site they would be using any armor they had. The Mk VI was already in mass issue to the Raven Guard by the time of the Drop Site Massacre as shown by the HH Campaign books.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
No, Post Drop site they would be using any armor they had. The Mk VI was already in mass issue to the Raven Guard by the time of the Drop Site Massacre as shown by the HH Campaign books.

Not if you go by the BL books specifically deliverance lost

According to Forge World it was issued to the Raven Guard for field testing prior to the Heresy.

Extermination includes artistic examples of three power armoured Raven Guard on Isstvan, two MkIV and only one MkVI, the MkVI is accompanied by a statement that the marine had been issued it during the Scalland Campaign when it was "still undergoing field trials with veteran Raven Guard units" implying it had only been issued to veteran units. The armour was subsequently put into full production, but only a few months prior to the Heresy so I imagine it would still have been far from ubiquitous outside of veteran units.

So then Betrayal at Calth tacticals could still give some mileage as fluffy Raven Guard? This is how I'd like to start as well haha

 Gashrog wrote:
Discrepency between Black Library and Forge World.

According to Forge World it was issued to the Raven Guard for field testing prior to the Heresy.

Extermination includes artistic examples of three power armoured Raven Guard on Isstvan, two MkIV and only one MkVI, the MkVI is accompanied by a statement that the marine had been issued it during the Scalland Campaign when it was "still undergoing field trials with veteran Raven Guard units" implying it had only been issued to veteran units. The armour was subsequently put into full production, but only a few months prior to the Heresy so I imagine it would still have been far from ubiquitous outside of veteran units.

The way I read it in the book was that the IF got enough of the suits to outfit most of the legion since there were only around 4000 strong at that point.

There were several distinct groups within the Raven Guard following the dropsite massacre. Each of these become their own chapter/faction following the heresy.

The Raven Guard at the dropsite massacre would probably see the greatest mixture of power armor patterns. They had all the patterns including prototype Mk6 at the battle and following the massacre with them making repairs and resupply they would likely have the single greatest concentration of Mk5 among the distinct subsets of Raven Guard.

There were the Terrans that were distrusted by Corax and sent on a suicide mission during the crusade. Those that survive went off and did their own thing. These marines would go off as Black Shields and in all likelihood be found using older patterns of armor, Mk2 and Mk3. Mk5 having been reclassified as just a catch all for the variety refurbished mix-matching of armor that occurred it is likely they too would have "Mk5" but it would tend to look different to the Mk5 patterns derived more heavily from the technology of Mk4 and prototype Mk6 in this instance.

There were the marines left as a home guard on Delivarence. These guys would likely see a mix of whatever patterns of armor, but in general would see less prototype Mk6 relative to other patterns since a home guard force wouldn't have as much opportunity to field test.

There were the Legion neophytes left on Deliverance as well elevated to full marines following the Dropsite massacre would see a disproportionate amount of Mk4 and Mk6 armor.

Similarly the Raptors, comprised of the new batches of marines created from the special genetech given to Corax by the emperor to rebuild his legion they'd also likely see a disproportionately greater amount of Mk6 which at this point is suppose to be in limited production by the Forgeworlds supplying the Raven Guard.

During the remainder of the Heresy many of these groups chose to avoid intermixing so these distinctions can really be a good way to distinguish your Raven Guard from another Raven Guard army.

My Raven Guard are post massacre veterans with a mix of prototype Mk6, production Mk6, and Mk5 armor. I distinguish the prototype Mk6 from production Mk6 by using Mk6 heads and shoulder pads on Mk4 torsos and legs while I otherwise use the standard Mk6 miniatures for the standard armor. Another little touch is that none of my squads have max squad sizes.

Is there an easy way to get Mk6 armour in large quantities? FW ones are just too expensive to buy 5 marines for £20.

You can use MK4 for Raven Guard no problems.

Any Legion can - even Death Guard, no matter what they'd want to tell you!

 Ashiraya wrote:
You can use MK4 for Raven Guard no problems.

Any Legion can - even Death Guard, no matter what they'd want to tell you!

Harumph! Can doesn't mean should

All legions utilized it, but to differing degrees. Loyalists (barring UM) had slightly less than the traitor legions (Thanks horus!), DG, IW, IH, Salamanders, and probably more all had it, but utilized MK II and III more often than MK IV. Truth be told, we're it not for how nice BAC was/is, there would be a lot less of a push for the idea that MK IV was a super popular, common mark of armour. Even in the fluff it's pointed out that it's stupidly expensive and irritatingly hard to repair (that second one making it less than ideal for legions like DG and IW who are more utilitarian). IMO. (Don't get me wrong, I like BAC, but this is my one core "issue" with it. but let's leave this thread derailing issue closed )


In the sense of raven guard: I see them described as using lots of partial MK IV (so MK V or just regular MK IV) and TONS of MK VI. But not as much MK II or III since it doesn't fir the legion's standard MO. Not that it would never be used, but just rarely (i.e. boarding actions and like like)

moral of the story: Use whatever MK you want/can afford/fits your legions fluff the best.

Be aware that when people see black space marines in MK3 armor they will think Iron Hands, not Raven Guard!

Questions like this come up pretty much every week about whether this army used this armor mark. The basic answer is that while most legions had preferences for specific marks they all used pretty much every mark (except Mk VI, which was pretty much just RG and Alphas). You just have to rationalize it fluff-wise, as aka_mythos did quite well above.

As for RG, you can use a mix of Mk VI, VI, V, III, and even some II. I personally am going to use mostly Mk IV with some MK VI helmets spread around.

Also keep in mind that the next HH boxed set (rumored for late this year) is rumored to have Mk III armor. So plastic Mk III may be on the way relatively soon to relieve the preference for Mk IV that most 30k groups are currently seeing. Though of course take that rumor with as much salt as you prefer.

Man is it good to be an Ultramarine and able to mass produce the most expensive, most advanced power armour! :p

But yeah, you can make an argument for any armour. Mark Ii and Mark iii are even justifiable because it could've been the Raven guard opening older stores to make up for damaged and lost armour during Isstvan and the battles after.

Edit: aren't the Terrans that wandered off rumoured to have become the Cacharadons?

You could definitely use Mk IV. Like another poster said, they probably had to grab whatever armor they had available when they regrouped. I know that Mk III is more fluffy for the Imperial Fists, especially the 405th Company led by Alexis Polux, but I am going to be using Mk IV from Betrayal at Calth to make them. I am saying that when they were resupplied after Phall, they were given the Mk IV armor. Part of me wants to do Mk VI instead, since Crimson Fists (what Polux and his crew eventually became post-Heresy) are classically depicted in that armor.

EDIT: Just to drive the point home, Book 3: Betrayal depicts a few Raven Guard in Mk IV armor, so I think it is perfectly reasonable to use it.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Man is it good to be an Ultramarine and able to mass produce the most expensive, most advanced power armour! :p

But yeah, you can make an argument for any armour. Mark Ii and Mark iii are even justifiable because it could've been the Raven guard opening older stores to make up for damaged and lost armour during Isstvan and the battles after.

Edit: aren't the Terrans that wandered off rumoured to have become the Cacharadons?

That wouldn't explain their mutations. I dunno if it's changed since because it was never published but at one of the FW events after they started selling the Badab war one of the game designers said what they were. Someone asked if we'd ever see the Raven Guard's monsters (that resulted from the daemon blood poisoning of the new genetech) when Corax rebuilt his legion... they replied "we already have the Cacharadons"...

When Corax started to rebuild his legion, he was said to have produced 3,000 Raptors before the Alpha Legions poured a vile of daemon blood into the gene vats. After that only 1-in-10 was a fully viable marine, most were physically deformed to the point that they "struggled to lift a bolter"... But some that were tainted ended up larger and stronger than a marine but brutish with a propensity for rage making them difficult to control... In the original fiction they were described as twice the size of a normal marine being brought out to battles like war dogs.

The Cacharadons are produced from the geneseeds of those monsters, removed and presumably put into the vaults on Terra after Corax euthanized these mutants.