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I think we can all agree that dark eldar could use some love. My proposed changes mainly focus on buffing the unused parts of the codex, namely the melee units in the codex.


New Combat Drugs:
1- 3d6 Charge
2- +1A
3- +1WS
4- +1S
5- +1T
6- Fearless
Removed the duds and replaced them with something you wouldn't mind rolling.

All Wych Cult Units (Wyches, Bloodbrides, Hellions, Reavers)
+1WS
Lore-wise they should really be WS5 already, helps them do their job against MEQ.

Wyches
Cost 9->7
No reason for a T3 5+ save model to be 9pts.

Reavers
+1A
This probably is not enough of a buff to make them usable but it is a start.

Talos/Chronos
Now Jump MC
I love these guys. In theory they are great but they are too slow to ever make it into combat with just a 6in move.

All transports
Swift - Passengers do not fire snapshots if the vehicle jinked in the previous turn. In addition, passengers count cruising speed as combat speed and combat speed as stationary.
Undo the unnecessary nerf from the FAQ and makes dark lances an option. Also helps wych cult, coven melee units to get in close.

Kabalite Warriors
Cost 8->7
Same reasoning for Wyches, 7pts I think is reasonable.

Kabalite Truborn
May purchase piercing ammo for splinter weapons at 2pt for Splinter Rifles 5pt for splinter cannons. Gives rending.
Ups their threat range on highly armored targets for a significant price jump. Gives the codex a way to deal with GMCs like WK's.
Some quick napkin math-hammer for a squad of 10 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons in a raider with splinter racks.
Old New
cost 205 221
hits 27 27
wounds 13 9+4 Rends
MEQ's dead 4 7

Mandrakes
Now have the demon type, Baleblast AP4->3
One of the worst units in the codex, still not great, but at least usable.

Liquifier gun
S3->4
Helps wound MEQ, right now even if you roll low on the AP you still dont kill much.

Razorwing Jetfighter
Cost 140->120
Voidraven Bomber
Cost 160->140
Implosion Missiles
Cost 15->10
Shatterfield Missiles
Cost 10->5
DE flyers are alright. but bit over-costed compared to SM/eldar flyers.

Add:

Ravagers get Aerial Assault: Snap-fires from this skimmer are at BS2, rather than BS1

Real Space Raiders detachment grants Shouded to ALL units (instead of the silly 6+ cover it grants now) and Turn 1 is always Night Fight

 Galef wrote:
Add:

Ravagers get Aerial Assault: Snap-fires from this skimmer are at BS2, rather than BS1

Real Space Raiders detachment grants Shouded to ALL units (instead of the silly 6+ cover it grants now) and Turn 1 is always Night Fight

What about Real Space Raiders upgrading Stealth to Shrouded during night fighting and giving stealth the rest of the time. All of the other decurion type bonuses (aspect host, hunter contingent, ect) are pretty large. They have to be to offset the loss of objective secured.

For drugs I'd rather a d3 of +1 toughnes, strength, or attacks.

3d6 isn't really necessary on the charge with the speed of our transports. The piercing ammo and kabalite point decrease probably isn't needed. Same thing for the ws increase, the higher ws is reserved for blood brides etc.

Instead I would give archon/succubus ghost plate options and kabalite true born get ghost plate as is. Sort of like guards vet upgrade options. Also give archon/succubus wings/Jetbike options. I'd like the idea of a cc geared reaver squad/scourge squad being escorted by an archon.

Make ravagers 6 man transport capacity.

lusciifi wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Add:

Ravagers get Aerial Assault: Snap-fires from this skimmer are at BS2, rather than BS1

Real Space Raiders detachment grants Shouded to ALL units (instead of the silly 6+ cover it grants now) and Turn 1 is always Night Fight

What about Real Space Raiders upgrading Stealth to Shrouded during night fighting and giving stealth the rest of the time. All of the other decurion type bonuses (aspect host, hunter contingent, ect) are pretty large. They have to be to offset the loss of objective secured.

Well remember that RSR detachment is nothing like the other super Formation detachment. It is merely an alternate CAD, so the bonus doesn't have to be huge. I'd say Shrouded during Turn 1 + always Night Fight Turn 1 would be sufficiently balanced. DE are an Alpha strike army, not a long distance endurance army.

If you grant Stealth for the rest of the game, Night Shields become pointless. If you change NS to give +1 cover (instead of stealth) they become broken.

@ #1ShieldBrother3++ , yes 5/6-man Transport capacity for Ravagers would be awesome

 Galef wrote:

Well remember that RSR detachment is nothing like the other super Formation detachment. It is merely an alternate CAD, so the bonus doesn't have to be huge. I'd say Shrouded during Turn 1 + always Night Fight Turn 1 would be sufficiently balanced. DE are an Alpha strike army, not a long distance endurance army.

If you grant Stealth for the rest of the game, Night Shields become pointless. If you change NS to give +1 cover (instead of stealth) they become broken.e

Fair enough, I was just thinking of it as equivalent to free night shields across the army. I know it originally wasn't designed as a super formation but perhaps it should be one. I think formations would go a long way to help DE even if nothing else changed.

3D6 charge seems a little ridiculous. Probably 6+D6" would be more suitable. Same effect as the Khorne daemon banner, but more than one use per game. Still gives a buff, but it's not absurd.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:
3D6 charge seems a little ridiculous. Probably 6+D6" would be more suitable. Same effect as the Khorne daemon banner, but more than one use per game. Still gives a buff, but it's not absurd.

That would be fine too, anything other then +1Init

lusciifi wrote:

 KharnsRightHand wrote:
3D6 charge seems a little ridiculous. Probably 6+D6" would be more suitable. Same effect as the Khorne daemon banner, but more than one use per game. Still gives a buff, but it's not absurd.

That would be fine too, anything other then +1Init

Are DE I5 or 6 base? If they're 5 I'd argue +1 I is useful.

pm713 wrote:
Are DE I5 or 6 base? If they're 5 I'd argue +1 I is useful.

DE base units are I5. All wych cult units (the ones that have combat drugs in the first place) are already I6.

lusciifi wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Are DE I5 or 6 base? If they're 5 I'd argue +1 I is useful.

DE base units are I5. All wych cult units (the ones that have combat drugs in the first place) are already I6.

Who thinks +1 Init on I6 is good....

pm713 wrote:

lusciifi wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Are DE I5 or 6 base? If they're 5 I'd argue +1 I is useful.

DE base units are I5. All wych cult units (the ones that have combat drugs in the first place) are already I6.

Who thinks +1 Init on I6 is good....

IDK, games workshop apparently.

Not bad, all in all. I'd add a few other things:

Splinter Rifles: Change profile to R18 S1 AP5 Assault 2, Poisoned (4+). <doesn't count as CCW anymore, I was smoking the good stuff>

Heat Lance: added to normal Special Weapons list (available to Warriors, Trueborn)

Disintegrator Cannon: added to normal Heavy Weapons list, change from Heavy 3 to Salvo 3/3.

Dark Lance: Change profile to R36 S8 AP2 Salvo 1/1, Lance (was not supposed to lose Lance, I derped.)

Huskblade: Change profile to R- S User AP2, Fleshbane, Dessicate
Dessicate: Rolls of 6 to wound inflict 3 wounds instead of 1.

Wyches: add Poisoned (6+) to their base rules, make 8ppm

Kabalite Warriors: Add splinter pistol, plasma grenades to wargear. 8ppm. May buy a CCW, 1ppm.

Kabalite Trueborn: Replace splinter rifles with shardcarbines. May buy ghostplate armour, 3ppm.

Archons: Replace kabalite armour with ghostplate armour.

Ravagers: Transport Capacity 6; Aerial Assault
Aerial Assault: A Ravager may always fire all its weapons at full Ballistic Skill regardless of how far it has moved. Other conditions that would force it to fire Snap Shots still affect it normally. A Ravager may re-roll misses on Snap Shots.

Reavers: Base movement speed becomes 18".

Scourges: Change to Jet Pack Infantry.

Raiders: Gain Stable Platform
Stable Platform: Passengers may disembark from a transport with this special rule even if it has moved Cruising Speed, and may act normally when they do so. Passengers that fire from a transport with this special rule do so at full Ballistic Skill even if it has moved Cruising Speed.

Enhanced Aethersails: A model with Enhanced Aethersails may move 2D6" in the Assault Phase if it has not moved Flat Out or attempted to Ram or Tank Shock. (Should be able to JSJ like an Eldar Jetbike.)

Other than those, I think Wracks need some tweaks but I'm not entirely sure what yet. Also, I think making the Pain Engines into Jump MCs is perhaps a bit much. I'd certainly give them Fleet, though.

Some things people may have missed in terms of units needing some buffs:

Incubi get Tormenter Fields like in the fluff, makes the unit count as having assault grenades when assaulting into cover and causes enemy units in B2B contact to have -1WS due to being wracked with pain. Drazhar gets this as well. Demiklaives are fixed back to what it was before, +2S AP2 when clasped, +1S AP2 with 2 extra attacks (rather than just one like with the usual 2CCW) when dual-wielded.

Make it so they take away all the dumb stuff where soulfright and all the rules similar to that like the archangel of pain can affect marines/models with ATSKNF rather than being outright ignored. Fearless units count as Ld10 for the purposes of their leadership test that must be taken.

lusciifi wrote:
I think we can all agree that dark eldar could use some love. My proposed changes mainly focus on buffing the unused parts of the codex, namely the melee units in the codex.


New Combat Drugs:
1- 3d6 Charge
2- +1A
3- +1WS
4- +1S
5- +1T
6- Fearless
Removed the duds and replaced them with something you wouldn't mind rolling.

All Wych Cult Units (Wyches, Bloodbrides, Hellions, Reavers)
+1WS
Lore-wise they should really be WS5 already, helps them do their job against MEQ.

Wyches
Cost 9->7
No reason for a T3 5+ save model to be 9pts.

Reavers
+1A
This probably is not enough of a buff to make them usable but it is a start.

Talos/Chronos
Now Jump MC
I love these guys. In theory they are great but they are too slow to ever make it into combat with just a 6in move.

All transports
Swift - Passengers do not fire snapshots if the vehicle jinked in the previous turn. In addition, passengers count cruising speed as combat speed and combat speed as stationary.
Undo the unnecessary nerf from the FAQ and makes dark lances an option. Also helps wych cult, coven melee units to get in close.

Kabalite Warriors
Cost 8->7
Same reasoning for Wyches, 7pts I think is reasonable.

Kabalite Truborn
May purchase piercing ammo for splinter weapons at 2pt for Splinter Rifles 5pt for splinter cannons. Gives rending.
Ups their threat range on highly armored targets for a significant price jump. Gives the codex a way to deal with GMCs like WK's.
Some quick napkin math-hammer for a squad of 10 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons in a raider with splinter racks.
Old New
cost 205 221
hits 27 27
wounds 13 9+4 Rends
MEQ's dead 4 7

Mandrakes
Now have the demon type, Baleblast AP4->3
One of the worst units in the codex, still not great, but at least usable.

Liquifier gun
S3->4
Helps wound MEQ, right now even if you roll low on the AP you still dont kill much.

Razorwing Jetfighter
Cost 140->120
Voidraven Bomber
Cost 160->140
Implosion Missiles
Cost 15->10
Shatterfield Missiles
Cost 10->5
DE flyers are alright. but bit over-costed compared to SM/eldar flyers.

Combat Drugs: I like those changes, but I agree with the previous poster that 3D6" charge is a bit muc, changing it to 6+D6" would be better.

Wych Cults: Wyches and Blood Brides should definitely be WS5, but not Hellions and Reavers. Hellions aren't actually Wych Cult members, they're just the Commorite equivelant of street gangs allied to the Cults for the drugs. Reavers are also much more about speed and ramming than hand to hand combat. I'd also give Wyches and Bloodbrides an extra attack. With those changes there should be no need to make Wyches cheaper, and Reavers don't need +1A, but Hellions do, I'd also change the Helglaives to AP4 and bring back the 5th edition rules for the Stun Claw. (Don't know what you meant by makign Reavers useful, they're already one of our best units.)

Talos/Cronos: Completely against making the Talos and Cronos Jump MC, I don't have that much trouble getting them into combat as it is, though they could do with Fleet, but they should both get +1A adn Cronos really needs to be able to take the Spirit Probe and the Spirit Vortex, not just one or the other.

Transports: I think Swift is too much, how about make them snap shoot at BS2 after Jinking and/or moving at Cruising Speed instead. Dark Lances are already an option on the Raider and would be pointless on the Venom. None of these changes to transports does a thing to help combat units get into assault though, not sure why you thought it would.

Warriors: 8pts is fine, just give them pistols as well as splinter rifles.

Trueborn: I like that change.

Mandrakes: Agree wih the Demon rule but I don't see why the Baleblast should be AP3? How about an ability where once per game they can move from one piece of cover to another piece of cover anywhere on the board?

Liquifier Gun: Yep, at present it's garbage.

Flyers: I largely agree with the changes to their cost, though I'd make both 120pts base. I agree with the change to Implosion Missiles, but I think rather than reduce the cost of Shatterfield Missiles, how about make them S8, Heavy 1, Sunder instead of S7, Blast, Shred. They'd be an excellent anti-flyer weapon in a codex that is lacking in AA.

 Imateria wrote:

Combat Drugs: I like those changes, but I agree with the previous poster that 3D6" charge is a bit muc, changing it to 6+D6" would be better.

Wych Cults: Wyches and Blood Brides should definitely be WS5, but not Hellions and Reavers. Hellions aren't actually Wych Cult members, they're just the Commorite equivelant of street gangs allied to the Cults for the drugs. Reavers are also much more about speed and ramming than hand to hand combat. I'd also give Wyches and Bloodbrides an extra attack. With those changes there should be no need to make Wyches cheaper, and Reavers don't need +1A, but Hellions do, I'd also change the Helglaives to AP4 and bring back the 5th edition rules for the Stun Claw. (Don't know what you meant by makign Reavers useful, they're already one of our best units.)

Talos/Cronos: Completely against making the Talos and Cronos Jump MC, I don't have that much trouble getting them into combat as it is, though they could do with Fleet, but they should both get +1A adn Cronos really needs to be able to take the Spirit Probe and the Spirit Vortex, not just one or the other.

Transports: I think Swift is too much, how about make them snap shoot at BS2 after Jinking and/or moving at Cruising Speed instead. Dark Lances are already an option on the Raider and would be pointless on the Venom. None of these changes to transports does a thing to help combat units get into assault though, not sure why you thought it would.

Warriors: 8pts is fine, just give them pistols as well as splinter rifles.

Trueborn: I like that change.

Mandrakes: Agree wih the Demon rule but I don't see why the Baleblast should be AP3? How about an ability where once per game they can move from one piece of cover to another piece of cover anywhere on the board?

Liquifier Gun: Yep, at present it's garbage.

Flyers: I largely agree with the changes to their cost, though I'd make both 120pts base. I agree with the change to Implosion Missiles, but I think rather than reduce the cost of Shatterfield Missiles, how about make them S8, Heavy 1, Sunder instead of S7, Blast, Shred. They'd be an excellent anti-flyer weapon in a codex that is lacking in AA.

Yeah I meant to say give helions +1A not reavers, bit of a mistype. I agree, reavers dont need a buff.

As to the talos/chronos, are you happy with their current cost without buffs? 120pts + upgrades feels like a lot for what they do. The only time they have made their points back for me is when I put them in a dark artisan formation and deepstrike them in with a webway portal next to something that cant retaliate well.

My thought on the transport was count moving combat as crusing speed for passengers, meaning you can disembark after going 12. As you said this would likely be too much, but they need something, even if its as simple as BS2 after jink.

I like the shatterfield idea, I never take them as is.

lusciifi wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Combat Drugs: I like those changes, but I agree with the previous poster that 3D6" charge is a bit muc, changing it to 6+D6" would be better.

Wych Cults: Wyches and Blood Brides should definitely be WS5, but not Hellions and Reavers. Hellions aren't actually Wych Cult members, they're just the Commorite equivelant of street gangs allied to the Cults for the drugs. Reavers are also much more about speed and ramming than hand to hand combat. I'd also give Wyches and Bloodbrides an extra attack. With those changes there should be no need to make Wyches cheaper, and Reavers don't need +1A, but Hellions do, I'd also change the Helglaives to AP4 and bring back the 5th edition rules for the Stun Claw. (Don't know what you meant by makign Reavers useful, they're already one of our best units.)

Talos/Cronos: Completely against making the Talos and Cronos Jump MC, I don't have that much trouble getting them into combat as it is, though they could do with Fleet, but they should both get +1A adn Cronos really needs to be able to take the Spirit Probe and the Spirit Vortex, not just one or the other.

Transports: I think Swift is too much, how about make them snap shoot at BS2 after Jinking and/or moving at Cruising Speed instead. Dark Lances are already an option on the Raider and would be pointless on the Venom. None of these changes to transports does a thing to help combat units get into assault though, not sure why you thought it would.

Warriors: 8pts is fine, just give them pistols as well as splinter rifles.

Trueborn: I like that change.

Mandrakes: Agree wih the Demon rule but I don't see why the Baleblast should be AP3? How about an ability where once per game they can move from one piece of cover to another piece of cover anywhere on the board?

Liquifier Gun: Yep, at present it's garbage.

Flyers: I largely agree with the changes to their cost, though I'd make both 120pts base. I agree with the change to Implosion Missiles, but I think rather than reduce the cost of Shatterfield Missiles, how about make them S8, Heavy 1, Sunder instead of S7, Blast, Shred. They'd be an excellent anti-flyer weapon in a codex that is lacking in AA.

Yeah I meant to say give helions +1A not reavers, bit of a mistype. I agree, reavers dont need a buff.

As to the talos/chronos, are you happy with their current cost without buffs? 120pts + upgrades feels like a lot for what they do. The only time they have made their points back for me is when I put them in a dark artisan formation and deepstrike them in with a webway portal next to something that cant retaliate well.

My thought on the transport was count moving combat as crusing speed for passengers, meaning you can disembark after going 12. As you said this would likely be too much, but they need something, even if its as simple as BS2 after jink.

I like the shatterfield idea, I never take them as is.

I love the Talos, it's easily one of the best close combat MC's in the game. The only upgrade I run on them is the Chain Flails for re-rolls to wound and more often than not I've got them into combat by turn 3 at the latest, and they will murder Riptides and the like quite nicely. Maybe give them Scout as standard rather than just as part of the CTC, but other than that +1A is all I think they need. The Cronos is harder to work out since it's primarily a support unit rather than a combat unit, but I think I'd like to see it dropped back to it's original 80pts from the previous codex and the previously mentioned changes.