Woman Live Streams Aftermath of Fatal Police Shooting

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**warlordgarou**

Frazzled wrote:
They say the Canadians are the most polite until they sneak up behind you and drop a moose on you.

My sister was bitten by a moose. . . .

**Frazzled**

See! Now you understand.

Back to topic. Am I the only annoyed with the attempts at character assassination of the victim? (not in this thread but on the internetz overall) Unless its relevant to the actual event- its not relevant.

**Mario**

agnosto wrote:

3. Germany is host to a live, viable Nazi party ala Adolph Hitler.

That partly true, we have a political party that tries to present their racism in new and innovative ways. They even know how to get attention:

1. Say something racist but slather copious amounts of innuendo on top of it (they can be subtler than Trump in that regard)
2. Wait for people to call you out, start backpedalling, and say people just misunderstood your statement
3. Complain about PC culture
4. Collect attention

The untrue part is the viable bit. They wouldn't have total power because our constitution doesn't have that bug it had when Hitler rose to power (Enabling Act)

**Compel**

I think I've asked this before but never really got an answer.

Does America do/consider some form of community policing? That mention of "foreign neighbourhoods" got me thinking.

I probably do have a coloured view of things, as I've never lived outside of jogging distance of a police station throughout my life, even if it's only a tiny 2 person post.

Anyhow, in the UK, we've got "Community Support Officers" - also known by a bunch of other names. They're effectively volunteer policemen (though I would imagine they get paid / reimbursed for their time). You might either see one walking round with a 'proper' policeman on days (well, more correctly, Friday and Saturday evenings), or walking round in groups of 2. They're also the people that would turn up if you reported a burglary or something police related that's not pressing or dangerous. They're not empowered to make arrests, but are empowered to take crime numbers and probably issue some form of citations or the like.

They're also the people that'd end up going to primary schools or whatever for show and tell days. I think that sort of thing, in theory at least, is a big component of the UK's approach to "Policing by consent."

Not that I'm saying it actually, you know, works all the time... But yeah, just a view from over the pond.

So yeah, onto another subject that's kind of related. There is a larp/board game created by Indiecade that's designed to make you think a little more about this topic. I kind of really want to roll my eyes as a result of it but, apparently done properly it's had a bit of a positive effect, so that's probably just me being the cynical Scot.

&maybetheywontkillyou - rules available here.

**Desubot**

Compel wrote:
I think I've asked this before but never really got an answer.

Does America do/consider some form of community policing? That mention of "foreign neighbourhoods" got me thinking.

I probably do have a coloured view of things, as I've never lived outside of jogging distance of a police station throughout my life, even if it's only a tiny 2 person post.

Anyhow, in the UK, we've got "Community Support Officers" - also known by a bunch of other names. They're effectively volunteer policemen (though I would imagine they get paid / reimbursed for their time). You might either see one walking round with a 'proper' policeman on days (well, more correctly, Friday and Saturday evenings), or walking round in groups of 2. They're also the people that would turn up if you reported a burglary or something police related that's not pressing or dangerous. They're not empowered to make arrests, but are empowered to take crime numbers and probably issue some form of citations or the like.

They're also the people that'd end up going to primary schools or whatever for show and tell days. I think that sort of thing, in theory at least, is a big component of the UK's approach to "Policing by consent."

Not that I'm saying it actually, you know, works all the time... But yeah, just a view from over the pond.

So yeah, onto another subject that's kind of related. There is a larp/board game created by Indiecade that's designed to make you think a little more about this topic. I kind of really want to roll my eyes as a result of it but, apparently done properly it's had a bit of a positive effect, so that's probably just me being the cynical Scot.

&maybetheywontkillyou - rules available here.

There certainly is a sort of neighborhood watch groups who will often note suspicious people that dont be long there. or have your car toed while you are at a friends house /salty

**A Town Called Malus**

Desubot wrote:

There certainly is a sort of neighborhood watch groups who will often note suspicious people that dont be long there. or have your car toed while you are at a friends house /salty

Or follow a black kid 'cause they're in a hoody, against the advice of the actual police, then shoot said kid when he violently confronts them about it.

Break out the bingo cards, ladies and gents

**Compel**

Yeah, we have Neighbourhood Watch as well, but that's a lot less formal a thing and is mostly organised by that one jerk on a powertrip that wants to rule over your street...

**LordofHats**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Desubot wrote:

There certainly is a sort of neighborhood watch groups who will often note suspicious people that dont be long there. or have your car toed while you are at a friends house /salty

Or follow a black kid 'cause they're in a hoody, against the advice of the actual police, then shoot said kid when he violently confronts them about it.

Break out the bingo cards, ladies and gents

For taking us to this road, you have done a dark and terrible dead.

You sir are the real monster

**A Town Called Malus**

LordofHats wrote:

For taking us to this road, you have done a dark and terrible dead.

You sir are the real monster

Says the person who once changed the link in his signature from cute bunnies to Rick Astley

I am only what my environment has made me

**LordofHats**

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Says the person who once changed the link in his signature from cute bunnies to Rick Astley

I am only what my environment has made me

How dare you bring up the past to provide context for current events!

**Easy E**

Compel wrote:
I think I've asked this before but never really got an answer.

Does America do/consider some form of community policing? That mention of "foreign neighbourhoods" got me thinking.

I probably do have a coloured view of things, as I've never lived outside of jogging distance of a police station throughout my life, even if it's only a tiny 2 person post.

Anyhow, in the UK, we've got "Community Support Officers" - also known by a bunch of other names. They're effectively volunteer policemen (though I would imagine they get paid / reimbursed for their time). You might either see one walking round with a 'proper' policeman on days (well, more correctly, Friday and Saturday evenings), or walking round in groups of 2. They're also the people that would turn up if you reported a burglary or something police related that's not pressing or dangerous. They're not empowered to make arrests, but are empowered to take crime numbers and probably issue some form of citations or the like.

They're also the people that'd end up going to primary schools or whatever for show and tell days. I think that sort of thing, in theory at least, is a big component of the UK's approach to "Policing by consent."

Not that I'm saying it actually, you know, works all the time... But yeah, just a view from over the pond.

So yeah, onto another subject that's kind of related. There is a larp/board game created by Indiecade that's designed to make you think a little more about this topic. I kind of really want to roll my eyes as a result of it but, apparently done properly it's had a bit of a positive effect, so that's probably just me being the cynical Scot.

&maybetheywontkillyou - rules available here.

Yes, we have similar programs usually int he form of Sheriff's Reserves, Police Auxiliary, etc. Essentially, they are part-time cops that are called up to help police big events or similar situations.

**AlmightyWalrus**

warlordgarou wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
They say the Canadians are the most polite until they sneak up behind you and drop a moose on you.

My sister was bitten by a moose. . . .

Moosebites can be really nasty things...

**kronk**

OgreChubbs wrote:
redleger wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
redleger wrote:
well Im ok with hating people who hate America. I applaud your right to hate us, but doesn't mean I have to think highly of you.

And now you're assuming that I hate America.

you was a general term not "you" as in almightywalrus but you, the people who would hate america.
sadly most of the world hates america for their unrest gun issues and general we know how to do everything better behavior. Not to mention the 12 year war that just spawned a new serpent head that all of us got roped into.

Most of us pay our taxes, feth our spouses, and go to work. Some drink beer, but the elite of us drink bourbon.

If that's a reason to hate us, that's cool.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Compel wrote:
Yeah, we have Neighbourhood Watch as well, but that's a lot less formal a thing and is mostly organised by that one jerk on a powertrip that wants to rule over your street...

We mainly just have the neighborhood watch, as mentioned above.

Anyhow, in the UK, we've got "Community Support Officers" - also known by a bunch of other names.

There are certain areas that have Volunteer Police, but I don't think it is a nation wide program. For example, here is the Houston VIP website: http://www.houstontx.gov/police/vip/

The Houston Police Volunteer Initiatives Program (VIP) is for individuals who wish to volunteer their time as members of the Houston Police Department. The greatest asset of any community is its people. A barometer of that value is the willingness of the people to volunteer. HPD recognizes the importance of volunteers and the valuable contributions they can provide the department. Our goal is to enhance the quality of life in the city of Houston by working as a team. As a Police VIP volunteer, you become a member of our team.

Returning Volunteer

VOLUNTEERS:
are individuals who perform services without pay
augment HPD staff but do not replace paid staff positions
are non sworn member and do not have the authority or duties that would classify them as a police officer
have been selected for a volunteer position by HPD
are expected to perform a minimum of 12 hours per month
turn in a monthly time sheet signed by the Division Coordinator
address all questions, concerns, complaints with their VIP coordinator
must attend a mandatory orientation class
are “authorized volunteers” – completed a background investigation and fingerprint identification check

You are disqualified from becoming a Police VIP if any of the following apply. The following are also grounds for dismissal from the program once you are approved.

Criminal Offenses:
Three (3) or more traffic violations during the last eighteen (18) months.
Felony or Class A Misdemeanor conviction (includes Felony or Class A Misdemeanor Deferred Adjudication convictions).
Class B Misdemeanor in the past ten (10) years (includes Deferred Adjudication convictions).
Family Violence offense conviction.
Indictment for any criminal offense (approval or reinstatement is based on disposition of court case).
Not living in the United States legally.
Under 17 years of age (except YPAC students).

Had / have a pattern of abusing prescription drugs.
Dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.
Current City Employee (unless participating in Citizen Patrol).
Physical / mental disability that would substantially impair an individual’s ability to perform their duties.
Unlawful sexual conduct prior to and/or during volunteer term.
Inappropriate behavior relating to sexual harassment or racial slurs.
Committed an act or behavior tending to bring reproach and/or discredit to themselves and/or the Houston Police Department.
Used, tried, or sold any dangerous drugs or narcotics including cocaine, crack heroin, LSD.

**Prestor Jon**

Of course programs like having reserve deputies can also be abused and cause problem. Like the instance of a 73 year old reserve deputy in Tulsa accidentally shooting and killing an unarmed man because he thought he was using his taser instead of his pistol.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/27/us/tulsa-deputy-manslaughter-trial/

**kronk**

Prestor Jon wrote:
Of course programs like having reserve deputies can also be abused and cause problem. Like the instance of a 73 year old reserve deputy in Tulsa accidentally shooting and killing an unarmed man because he thought he was using his taser instead of his pistol.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/27/us/tulsa-deputy-manslaughter-trial/

Yeah, I recalled that but couldn't find the link off hand.

**Breotan**

Frazzled wrote:
Back to topic. Am I the only annoyed with the attempts at character assassination of the victim? (not in this thread but on the internetz overall) Unless its relevant to the actual event- its not relevant.

No, Fraz, you are not the only one. If you look at all my posts in this thread, you'll see one recurring theme. I've always put the blame where it belongs - with the cop. I don't know who Philando Castile was but the existence of a CCP shows he wasn't a criminal and even if he were, he didn't deserve to die over a busted tail light.

**redleger**

Breotan wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Back to topic. Am I the only annoyed with the attempts at character assassination of the victim? (not in this thread but on the internetz overall) Unless its relevant to the actual event- its not relevant.

No, Fraz, you are not the only one. If you look at all my posts in this thread, you'll see one recurring theme. I've always put the blame where it belongs - with the cop. I don't know who Philando Castile was but the existence of a CCP shows he wasn't a criminal and even if he were, he didn't deserve to die over a busted tail light.

I agree that him having a CCP showed he had never been a convicted criminal. And the blame as of right now looks like the LEOs to shoulder. However he was not pulled over for a busted tail light, and we should be factual in discussing this when assigning blame, using logic not emotion.

**Prestor Jon**

Breotan wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Back to topic. Am I the only annoyed with the attempts at character assassination of the victim? (not in this thread but on the internetz overall) Unless its relevant to the actual event- its not relevant.

No, Fraz, you are not the only one. If you look at all my posts in this thread, you'll see one recurring theme. I've always put the blame where it belongs - with the cop. I don't know who Philando Castile was but the existence of a CCP shows he wasn't a criminal and even if he were, he didn't deserve to die over a busted tail light.

Yeah I'm really interesting in hearing the cops' excuse for why Castile needed to be shot. The only reason I can think of is if Castile tried to draw his pistol and engage the cops which makes no sense whatsoever. The cop's lawyer claims Castile was noncompliant but I can't think of any level of noncompliance short of attacking the cops that would justify the escalation of force directly to lethal force.

The training that cops get for dealing with lawfully armed citizens is often shown to be extremely shoddy. I know people who had cops hold them at gunpoint when they explained that they had a carry permit and were armed, get hassled by getting spread on the car hood or pavement, be disarmed and have their gun checked for being stolen, etc. That last part always puzzles me. If I tell a cop that I've passed a background check, have been issued a permit to carry, and am carrying a pistol how in the world does that suggest in any way that the gun I'm carrying has any reasonable chance to be stolen? There's no probable cause, no reason to suspect that I went through all the legal hassle to get a permit just to carry stolen property on my person.

Cops need to stop treating citizens as enemy combatants. It is extremely rare for cops to die in the line of duty and those numbers haven't shown an increase as the number of states issuing carry permits and the number of people obtaining them has steadily risen over the the years. In all of these publicized instances the cops always escalate the situation faster than would be prudent for any armed citizen and the overarching theme seems to be that cops expect immediate and total compliance and if they don't get it they'll use exterme levels of force to achieve that compliance in the name of officer safety. Training needs to emphasize patience and the importance of deescalating situations instead of prioritizing control and dominance above all else.

There has been no evidence made public to show that Castile was a threat to the cops or had any intention or motivation to be a threat to the cops yet the cops thought he was an immediate deadly threat that had to shot multiple times. That kind of disconnect should rarely if ever happen, instead it seems to happen frequently across the country.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

redleger wrote:
Breotan wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Back to topic. Am I the only annoyed with the attempts at character assassination of the victim? (not in this thread but on the internetz overall) Unless its relevant to the actual event- its not relevant.

No, Fraz, you are not the only one. If you look at all my posts in this thread, you'll see one recurring theme. I've always put the blame where it belongs - with the cop. I don't know who Philando Castile was but the existence of a CCP shows he wasn't a criminal and even if he were, he didn't deserve to die over a busted tail light.

I agree that him having a CCP showed he had never been a convicted criminal. And the blame as of right now looks like the LEOs to shoulder. However he was not pulled over for a busted tail light, and we should be factual in discussing this when assigning blame, using logic not emotion.

Was he pulled over for the BOLO? Media reports haven't really gotten any clearer and informative lately.

**redleger**

as of right now, initial reports probably all based on the female occupant, and the reason stated by the LEO was probably a broken tail lights, however I have not seen anything disproving or substantiating the released audio. So it would be even more current to just leave the last part out. However I don't think the audio was faked, but I will concede that it can not be proven until it is released by the sheriffs office.

**dogma**

At least eight of the 50 people arrested by the State Patrol were from outside of Minnesota.

Why does this matter?

**Prestor Jon**

dogma wrote:
At least eight of the 50 people arrested by the State Patrol were from outside of Minnesota.

Why does this matter?

It doesn't. It seems like whoever wrote that is trying to establish grounds for the narrative that the outrage over the death of Castile is trumped up by outside agitators and that the people of Minnesota aren't terribly upset by it. Of course even if that narrative is true, it changes none of the facts concerning the incident ittself.

**Xenomancers**

As far as I can tell from my research...there is no proof of a CCP. There is also no proff that the car was stopped for an out tail light. Ive heard police audio prior to the event and the police did not specify a reason for the stop.

Here's some facts about the case that liberal media does not tell you because it detracts from their agenda.

The cop shooter is Latino - as in he is also a minority.
The cops were already on the lookout for a black man with dreadlocks that had committed an armed robbery the day before. Witnesses are able to account for several verbal warning not to reach for his gun. There is also video of the police trying to resuscitate the victim as well.

In any case - I think this cop made a mistake and it's unlikely the victim was going to attempt harm on the police. However - it is a judgement call made in milliseconds that police make daily - I will always give an officer the benifit of the doubt in cases like this if a gun is found on the victim. In both these recent cases there was a gun involved - so it's pretty clear where I stand on this.

Lesson to the wise. Do everything you can in your power to put a cop at ease during a stop. Be polite - comply with all legal requests - and don't do anything other than look into their face/reach for anything/ or even move - unless they tell you.

**Spinner**

Xenomancers wrote:
Witnesses are able to account for several verbal warning not to reach for his gun.

I thought the witness account was clarified as "one warning, then multiple shots" instead of "multiple warnings, then one shot"?

Do everything you can in your power to put a cop at ease during a stop.

Or you'll get shot?

Be polite - comply with all legal requests

Or you'll get shot?

Don't do anything other than look into their face/reach for anything/ or even move - unless they tell you.

Or you'll get shot?

Does none of that seem like a problem to you? I don't want to have to treat the police like a stray dog with a suspicious bit of foam around its mouth. Plus, it sounds like Mr. Casile was, in fact, politely complying with legal requests.

For what it's worth, I don't think there was malice aforethought; everything I've seen points toward someone who was far, far too nervous to safely handle his weapon around members of the public. That doesn't give Mr. Castile back his life.

**Prestor Jon**

Xenomancers wrote:
As far as I can tell from my research...there is no proof of a CCP. There is also no proff that the car was stopped for an out tail light. Ive heard police audio prior to the event and the police did not specify a reason for the stop.

Here's some facts about the case that liberal media does not tell you because it detracts from their agenda.

The cop shooter is Latino - as in he is also a minority.
The cops were already on the lookout for a black man with dreadlocks that had committed an armed robbery the day before. Witnesses are able to account for several verbal warning not to reach for his gun. There is also video of the police trying to resuscitate the victim as well.

In any case - I think this cop made a mistake and it's unlikely the victim was going to attempt harm on the police. However - it is a judgement call made in milliseconds that police make daily - I will always give an officer the benifit of the doubt in cases like this if a gun is found on the victim. In both these recent cases there was a gun involved - so it's pretty clear where I stand on this.

Lesson to the wise. Do everything you can in your power to put a cop at ease during a stop. Be polite - comply with all legal requests - and don't do anything other than look into their face/reach for anything/ or even move - unless they tell you.

Multiple sources have confirmed that Castile has a valid carry permit.

http://www.fox9.com/news/172206334-story
http://www.startribune.com/philando-castile-had-permit-to-carry-gun/386054481/

And cops don't make a milisecond decision to shoot somebody on a daily basis. Cops rarely shoot anyone and the vast majority of cops are never involved in a shooting because the job isn't that dangerous. This is just another example of cops fear biting.

**skyth**

As soon as someone starts ranting about the 'Liberal Media' they instantly loose all credibility.

**Ouze**

Xenomancers wrote:
In any case - I think this cop made a mistake and it's unlikely the victim was going to attempt harm on the police. However - it is a judgement call made in milliseconds that police make daily - I will always give an officer the benifit of the doubt in cases like this if a gun is found on the victim. In both these recent cases there was a gun involved - so it's pretty clear where I stand on this. .

It would appear you are literally conceding the cop made a mistake, and a man is dead, but the officer gets the benefit of the doubt (even though you think he probably made a mistake), and that if there is a gun involved you support the cop (even though you think he made a mistake and now an innocent man is dead).

TBH, "the liberal media" isn't the biggest problem with your post in my opinion.

**reds8n**

http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2353-i-was-cop-in-country-with-no-guns-6-startling-truths.html

... there is a fair bit of UK slang but you'll muddle through I'm sure.

Note the thing about the Lee Rigby killers.

It's the inaction of your police so often that one finds especially puzzling.

**MrDwhitey**

Ouze wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
In any case - I think this cop made a mistake and it's unlikely the victim was going to attempt harm on the police. However - it is a judgement call made in milliseconds that police make daily - I will always give an officer the benifit of the doubt in cases like this if a gun is found on the victim. In both these recent cases there was a gun involved - so it's pretty clear where I stand on this. .

It would appear you are literally conceding the cop made a mistake, and a man is dead, but the officer gets the benefit of the doubt (even though you think he probably made a mistake), and that if there is a gun involved you support the cop (even though you think he made a mistake and now an innocent man is dead).

TBH, "the liberal media" isn't the biggest problem with your post in my opinion.

That was certainly one of the more disturbing posts I've seen on Dakka.

**nkelsch**

Why are the unwashed masses expected to be composed and trained on how to interact with someone who is supposed to be a highly skilled trained professional? And the trained professional is allowed to freak out and lose his gak over the tiniest thing and allowed to say 'it is a mistake, benefit of the doubt! Justified action!"

**Xenomancers**

Spinner wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Witnesses are able to account for several verbal warning not to reach for his gun.

I thought the witness account was clarified as "one warning, then multiple shots" instead of "multiple warnings, then one shot"?

Do everything you can in your power to put a cop at ease during a stop.

Or you'll get shot?

Be polite - comply with all legal requests

Or you'll get shot?

Don't do anything other than look into their face/reach for anything/ or even move - unless they tell you.

Or you'll get shot?

Does none of that seem like a problem to you? I don't want to have to treat the police like a stray dog with a suspicious bit of foam around its mouth. Plus, it sounds like Mr. Casile was, in fact, politely complying with legal requests.

For what it's worth, I don't think there was malice aforethought; everything I've seen points toward someone who was far, far too nervous to safely handle his weapon around members of the public. That doesn't give Mr. Castile back his life.

We have no idea if Casile was being compliant. The fact that he got shot kind of suggests he wasn't. Is there any way of really knowing that? The video is useless in this regard. I have conceded that I think this cop made a mistake - which is bound to happen in any situation where human error is possible. However, if you don't think cops are forced to make decisions like this all the time - you are most certainly wrong. Otherwise we are totally in agreement - this wasn't a malicious act - it was a conceivable mistake.