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Breachers are pretty great especially with an apothecary and are now cheaper. 2x10 man units is about all you need, but sticking 4 10 man units on the table and some suzerains would be cool, all with apothecaries.

I put in my order a couple days before release, and just got the email it's been shipped. So hopefully that means they are reaching the end of their queue.

My order confirmation for the book just came in today as well, so if past orders are anything to go off, it will be here anytime from Friday-Tuesday.

Yeah, if those numbers are accurate that actually makes a full squad more expensive by 25 points. Wooof.

Small squads are a little more doable, which is nice if you plan on using them for zone mortalis missions, which is, you know, where they should shine and all that.

It seems like FW wants them to be 5 points more than a tactical marine for the favor of getting that shield. The prob is, that shield really isn't worth 5 points on a 12.5 point model. It not going to soak enough wounds to be better than just having more numbers of cheaper marines on the table.

So breachers aren't a good jack of all trades troop choice, but they can still be good for zone mortalis, using a land raider with taking up a heavy slot, and when you really want access to their special weapons. Pretty niche, but I'm not super upset about that.

With the discount on the base cost of the Breachers they would work better for making more durable MSU for the Ultramarines to take advantage of their Legion Rules.

And for the smurfs they get 5 point power swords which is awesome, like, visually and in terms of battlefield effectiveness.

true, but when you keep in mind that they are "intended" (I assume, since they are so zones mortalis focused) to be 15 man squads, it makes more sense. BUT 5 points for defensive grenades, a terminator invuln in CC, and a reroll of your save vs. templates and blasts is a bit of a steal, innit?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
My order confirmation for the book just came in today as well, so if past orders are anything to go off, it will be here anytime from Friday-Tuesday.

Thirded.

Can't wait to start cooking up lists.

 Brennonjw wrote:
true, but when you keep in mind that they are "intended" (I assume, since they are so zones mortalis focused) to be 15 man squads, it makes more sense. BUT 5 points for defensive grenades, a terminator invuln in CC, and a reroll of your save vs. templates and blasts is a bit of a steal, innit?

Only really in ZM, and with the sarg. You only get to reroll armor saves, so AP3 or lower blasts like phosphex, Scorpious shells and Demolisher cannons are still gonna give you a bad time.

 Swampmist wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
true, but when you keep in mind that they are "intended" (I assume, since they are so zones mortalis focused) to be 15 man squads, it makes more sense. BUT 5 points for defensive grenades, a terminator invuln in CC, and a reroll of your save vs. templates and blasts is a bit of a steal, innit?

Only really in ZM, and with the sarg. You only get to reroll armor saves, so AP3 or lower blasts like phosphex, Scorpious shells and Demolisher cannons are still gonna give you a bad time.

yeah, but that reroll makes them decent against quad-mortars w/o phosphex, and against flamer/heavy flamer support squads as well

 Brennonjw wrote:
true, but when you keep in mind that they are "intended" (I assume, since they are so zones mortalis focused) to be 15 man squads, it makes more sense. BUT 5 points for defensive grenades, a terminator invuln in CC, and a reroll of your save vs. templates and blasts is a bit of a steal, innit?

Nah, not really. Paying for defensive grenades for a full squad is like paying for meltabombs for a full squad. It's good but a bit overkill (assuming you've got the spare HQ slot you could stick a centurion with a shield into a tactical squad for less points!). That re-roll for the armor saves doesn't seem so great to me in 30k. In 40k flamers are everywhere, but in 30k they're really dang hard to work into your army since you need full squads of em. I haven't encountered a single instance where that re-roll would have helped me, and I don't know how long it's going to be until I do. How many template or blast weapons are you going to get hit with that are AP4 or worse? Even if you factor in the the serg having artificer armor and being up front to tank some AP3 hits it still seems like a pretty rare occurrence. And finally, paying for an invul save doesn't help much if it increases your survivability by 33% sometimes, but makes your cost go up by 33%. If you're getting nailed with AP1-3 weapons in hand to hand, your survivability vs tacticals is about dead even (considering they'd have more boots on the ground). If you're getting shot or getting nailed in hand to hand with a weapon that's AP4 or worse, the tactical survivability is way higher.

So yeah, I'm actually working on a squad of these guys as we speak, and I don't think they're worthless, they're just not auto-include like my assault marines are and they'll probably gather a bit more dust than my tacticals. They're niche, and that's fine.

How is everyone reading the War Machine Detatchment rule?

can legions now take imperial Knights from the Questoris Knight army list by using a war machine Detatchment or is that list just giving you all options for the relevant army?

Page reference no. 9.

I'm reading it as no, only super heavies from the relevant army list. Opinions welcome!

 Wilson wrote:
How is everyone reading the War Machine Detatchment rule?

can legions now take imperial Knights from the Questoris Knight army list by using a war machine Detatchment or is that list just giving you all options for the relevant army?

Page reference no. 9.

I'm reading it as no, only super heavies from the relevant army list. Opinions welcome!

It clearly states use of Questoris Knights.

'War Machine Detachment: 1-2 Super-heavy vehicles of the same unit type, each with a Hull Points value of 8 or less, and each chosen either from the specific army list for the Primary Detachment, the Questoris Knights army list found in the Crusade Imperialis army list..."

Yea the wording is clear, knights are now available to legions as LOW as 1 or 2.

Cool, I guess I just read it too many times and confused myself! Merci.

Book in hand, if anyone wants to ask specific questions/ get confirmation.

I've not played 30K yet, and this is my first proper 30K book, so probably better to speak slowly and use short words..

I've had it in hand for a while because of Ebooks

 Azreal13 wrote:
Book in hand, if anyone wants to ask specific questions/ get confirmation.

I've not played 30K yet, and this is my first proper 30K book, so probably better to speak slowly and use short words..

Are the point changes listed at the beginning of page 2 correct? I just want to know if I should start list building again.

The battlescribe file is fixed now, so that's good.

 Freytag93 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Book in hand, if anyone wants to ask specific questions/ get confirmation.

I've not played 30K yet, and this is my first proper 30K book, so probably better to speak slowly and use short words..

Are the point changes listed at the beginning of page 2 correct? I just want to know if I should start list building again.

Like I said, I've got no other books, so haven't got any frame of reference to advise on that, if you want to say "are X now Y points" based on that list's info and the existing costs, I'd be happy to help!

Got my book today I'm glad to see Dreadclaws have got inertia guidance system with there pts increase.

For anyone who already has the book whats the point cost of giving a quad mortar shatter shells?

 King Amroth wrote:
For anyone who already has the book whats the point cost of giving a quad mortar shatter shells?

+20 per gun, plus the cost of the HQ to unlock them.

That's Phosphex

Shatter is +10 plus base, plus cost to upgrade to Support Battery.

 Azreal13 wrote:
That's Phosphex

Shatter is +10 plus base, plus cost to upgrade to Support Battery.

Is that in the new book? As they have changed from previous books it would seem.

Yep, 100% the new book.

Not sure how it worked in the old one, but you now buy the battery, with heavy Bolters, can upgrade to Graviton or Las, then, if you want quads you must pay to upgrade the whole battery to a support battery which gives them quads with Frag, you then can add the other shell types at additional cost, with Phosphex carrying the additional restriction of the Siege Consul.

I'm a bit wary of sharing points values, as that's often deemed the line in the sand, but a quad mortar with frag and shatter is now the cost of two rhinos, or, alternatively, costs 10pts per point of toughness.

Yea dont share exact points, ive just been trying to figure out how it work as battlescribe seems confused.

I'm assuming this deals exclusively with marines, but just in case, are there any changes for the Imperial Militia and Cults?

 Blacksails wrote:
I'm assuming this deals exclusively with marines, but just in case, are there any changes for the Imperial Militia and Cults?

Different book. That is Crusade Imperialis.

I'm assuming this deals exclusively with marines, but just in case, are there any changes for the Imperial Militia and Cults?

There is a Crusade Imperialis red book - nothing really changed for them aside from adding in errata elements (like the points costs for Rogue Psykers).
There are certainly no new units and if anything changed in points costs I haven't noticed it yet.


Quaestoris Knights (in the same book) changed quite a bit - adding in formal 'Quaestoris' entries for the Codex : Imperial Knights chassis like the Warden, Gallant & Crusader - which don't actually match the points costs, and in some cases the weapon options - of their 40k counterparts.