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Hello there.

As a CSM player, I would like to run some termies, but I am not really sure of the way to play them. I have heard about "termicide", but I don't know what this is about.

I usually run a squad of 4 : 3 with a pair of lightning claws, and the fourth with heavy flamer and powerfist. They strike at I4, can inflct a good bunch of wounds, but AP3 and S4 is not really efficient against MC or 2+ saves.

I plan to build a squad of 5 with combi-melta and power axes. Good AP, good strengh... but I1 and really expensive unit.

What do you think about this setting ? and how do you run yours ?

Thanks !

Strictly 3-4, all Combi-Plasma or Melta.

Anything else and you'll be disappointed for the price.

Depends what point level you are running at.

At low points a chaos lord in termie armour with the AoBF surrounded by a squad of khorne termies with chain fists can eat through pretty much anything. This gives you both high initiative attacks and high damage attacks so you can take on both squishy and armoured things.

At higher point games your termies are likely to be killed before they can even charge because of all the ap2 at high point levels. This is where termicide comes in: terminator suicide squads. This is where your termies deep strike down, all with combi-meltas, and vapourise a tough or well guarded target. Your termies are likely to die during your opponants turn, but that's all right because they have done their job.

Ok I understand the termicide. Yeap chainfists are really cool, but really expensive too. When you run them with your lord, do you deep strike them or use a land raider ?

Chainfists are unnecessary.

You can glance most Walkers to death in the rear by firing Plasma Guns, and AV14 is bad for the most part anyway so people don't run it. Plus with either Mauls or Axes you can glance most vehicles you want to.

Anything worth their salt that you need a chainfist for (Wraithknight, Imperial Knight) is going to win the combat anyway. Anything like a Stormsurge or Riptide (and how you did that is beyond me) will take enough wounds from just the Axes, really.

 meecham63 wrote:
Ok I understand the termicide. Yeap chainfists are really cool, but really expensive too. When you run them with your lord, do you deep strike them or use a land raider ?

Deep strike. At low point games they can usually survive, especially if you can draw fire with the rest of your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Chainfists are unnecessary.

You can glance most Walkers to death in the rear by firing Plasma Guns, and AV14 is bad for the most part anyway so people don't run it. Plus with either Mauls or Axes you can glance most vehicles you want to.

Anything worth their salt that you need a chainfist for (Wraithknight, Imperial Knight) is going to win the combat anyway. Anything like a Stormsurge or Riptide (and how you did that is beyond me) will take enough wounds from just the Axes, really.

I like to run chainfists anyway, 1: because it means that tank, walker, etc. will die no matter what, and 2: I much prefer to deal with things in cc than glancing at range (but that might just be an old chaos player talking).

What I tend to find at lower point games is that people take far more tanks and transports which makes the chainfist termies amazing. It might just be me who tends to find that the lower points don't contain that many WK, Riptides, etc. Will have to depend on OP's meta.

 meecham63 wrote:
Hello there.

As a CSM player, I would like to run some termies, but I am not really sure of the way to play them. I have heard about "termicide", but I don't know what this is about.

I usually run a squad of 4 : 3 with a pair of lightning claws, and the fourth with heavy flamer and powerfist. They strike at I4, can inflct a good bunch of wounds, but AP3 and S4 is not really efficient against MC or 2+ saves.

I plan to build a squad of 5 with combi-melta and power axes. Good AP, good strengh... but I1 and really expensive unit.

What do you think about this setting ? and how do you run yours ?

Thanks !

IIRC, you can't have a special until you get to a 5 man squad.

Also, as mentioned before, the only effective way to use them is min squads with meltas and axes. 112 points for 3. Drop in, melta something then draw fire. If you've somehow not died before your next turn rolls around, eat overwatch for something else more important or charge something that can't realisticaly hurt you back. Repeat until squad is dead or enemies are dead.

On the odd occassion that you know you're not facing grav/haywire/gauss/D-weapons, then a raider can work, but it's a rare thing these days to face a list without them, to the point that it's barely worth mentioning. Used to be the case that they could pull their weight against tau since broadsides couldn't do more than scuff the paint with their missiles and nova'ing the IA for a chance at popping it was doing you more harm than good. Now with the stormsurge, it's going to catch a couple of destroyer missiles and leave the crew stranded in your own DZ first turn.

The bringers of despair are ok. Very expensive, but a unit of 10 plus abbadon, all with combi plasma and flavoured to your choice of god put out quite some hurt. Not competitive by any means, but they work better than you might think, even when you're not going up against marines (which will still be often). Though you really want forgeworld for them. Be it dreadclaws or spartans.

Other than that, stick to termicide. Although you can make a small unit with a mix of everything and still be at an acceptable points cost. Not marked though. Would look something like 3 meltas, a PF and a CF and maybe a special weapon. Small enough to deepstrike or put it a regular claw. Again, not so much for competitive play but otherwise these can work.

A point that might be worth considering is the champion can't use the unit upgrades; he has to buy his weapons from the (more expensive) character option lit and can't take a heavy weapon.

I converted a Chaos Terminator Lord into Zhufor from the Vraks books. If you're not familiar, he has Eternal Warrior, S5 with a powerfist, 4 attacks base (6 if he swings with his chainaxe instead), Furious Charge, and the ability to take a bodyguard of Terminators who don't take up an elite slot.

I've had fun with a Land Raider with a dirge caster, cover it with a couple cheap rhino squads till you get close and BAM!

No overwatch, assault out of the vehicle, and it's all good.

As far as actual equipment it depends on the foe. Combi-flamers and a Lord with BBS it great for non MEQs. Combi-melta if the foe is a bit tougher. If you got points to spare P. Axes and MoT make them a lot harder to pull down.

I've also seen MoS on an all L. Claw Termie squad before...that was fun. I'm not a fan of plasma but YMMV.

But yeah if you do take any vehicle carrying assault troops get the dirge caster, it saves headaches.

Land raider with dirg caster are really fun to play. I was thinking of a squad of tzeentch termis with power axes and Kharn the Betrayer with them, packed in a land raider, would be something really funny to play

Kharn cannot join Tzeentch narked terminators...

Even if he could, Kharn's rule where he hits friendlies would kill a very expensive model if it kicked in.

Even if he could, Kharn's rule where he hits friendlies would kill a very expensive model if it kicked in.

Kharn has the Hatred special rule, so does "the betrayer" trigger before or after the reroll due to Hatred ?

Before one would wager, as otherwise the betrayer could theoretically trigger twice off a single attack, and that would be silly.
First you resolve any rolls and rule that effect the rolls themselves, THEN you turn into any rules that change the effect of the roll. just like twin-linked is applied before gets hot.


In any case, my vision for chaos terminators is minimal squads, combi weapons and alternating power weapons (one axe, one sword, one maul) so they can pick a fight with anything.

I personally run my termies as obliteraters most of the time. I guess termies would be better for suicide squads or cqc but of you want fire support go with obliterators.

The best i got with them is 3-man squad with combi-plazma

For fun:

Run them as KDK in the Brazen Onslaught formation:

1-4 Termie packs and 2-4 Bloodcrusher packs. If any units here are in a combat where they're outnumbered, they gain +1 Attack. The dream is to have your 5 man Terminator unit get into a combat with 3+ armored units when you've loaded your Terminators with dual Lightning Claws so you're 3 attacks base, then +2 for Rage and then gain +1 attack from the Formation and another +1 attack from Blood Tithe! Not only will you be Str5 due to Furious Charge but you'll also be pumping out 7 attacks per model! Put Zhufor in there for a real party. Also can take dedicated LR.

 meecham63 wrote:

Even if he could, Kharn's rule where he hits friendlies would kill a very expensive model if it kicked in.

Kharn has the Hatred special rule, so does "the betrayer" trigger before or after the reroll due to Hatred ?

Kharn only has hatred if he is your warlord. "The Betrayer" says 'unmodified' rolls of 1, since reroll is not a modifier (modifier would be e.g. -1 to hit if such a thing even exists) you would roll to hit, re-roll misses and then apply the friendly fire for any dice that are still 1.

This means Kharn only has a 1/36 chance of taking out a friendly but only if it is the first turn of combat and he is your warlord. If he is not your warlord then it is 1/6 chance to hit a mate. Also note that if he is vs Jain Zar and she disarms him then you loose the 2+ to hit rule since it is on the axe not the character which makes you quite a lot more likely to end up with 1s since you will hit on 5s (Thanks to her banshee mask).

Termicides which you already know what they are, are the best way to use them. There are better stuff to put but terminators are cool and we love them.
I have a fun list in which my warlord is a Terminator lord and I run him together with 4 terminators with 4x combi meltas + 2x Axes and 1 power maul on champ + 1 chainfist and the lord is lc+ chain fist in a land raider and they actually do work sometimes except when a D cannon pops my land rader turn 1 :<

FWIW I plan to run four termies in a land raider with- well, the following;

HQ Lord with terminator armour, chainfist, lightning claw, MoK, VotLW
E 4 Terminators with MoK, chainfist (champion), chainfist, power fist, 2 combi weapons
HS Land Raider

Super expensive but with two renegade knights in the list to draw fire away from the land raider that unit will sometimes get through, and a unit charging with fourteen chainfist, four powerfist and four axe/maul attacks is going to crack skulls. On a bad day the LR gets destroyed early and the terminators are out in the open. On a good day the termies and lord get a charge on something and the LR spends the rest of the game sitting on an objective shooting, probably too much trouble to destroy at that point