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 Compel wrote:
On a local government level (town councils, but also heading towards regional levels), the Government is responsible for approving or unapproving land to be built for housing.

Generally speaking, this approval can potentially be rather difficult to gain, due to the local government balancing various requirements - including, for example, people owning pre-existing homes declaring that it will affect their house prices, plus other associated 'NIMBYs' - Not in My Back Yards(!)

There are other reasons too, for example, the UK puts a lot of emphasis on 'the green belt' - Ensuring that there is undeveloped / farmland located between different towns.

Ah! Makes sense.

It's called "Zoning Regulations" here in the states. And, yes we can have issues with that as well...

But, yaknow... sometimes Eminent Domain is a good thing, as long as it's not abused (looking you at you Cheeto Jesus!).

Check this out:
http://www.oddee.com/item_99288.aspx

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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Just look at this as an opportunity to engage in your political sphere. Be brave, rub some elbow grease and take control of your destiny.

Whembly, as things stand, I have 4 elected representatives. One of them, the Member of the European Parliament, will be getting scrapped. And good riddance to that!

3 elected representatives is enough for me, and they are:

Local Council (the guys that empty the garbage bins and fix the roads.)

MSP (Member of Scottish parliament) These guys are equivalent to the state legislative in one of your American states.

MP (Member of Westminster/House of Commons) that's the 'federal' stuff - defense, foreign affairs, etc etc They choose the Prime Minister

That's more than enough for me, because they're overpaid as it is! Plus, my 'state' legislative is having a constitutional crisis with the 'federal' government in London

Hey... thanks for explaining it to this ignorant 'Murrican.

In the states, it's like this (ie, Missouri):
-City/County Councilmen (local)
-City Mayor/County Executives (local)
-State Representive (regional)
-State Senate (regional)
-State Governor/Attorney General/Lieutenant Gov/etc.. (state)
-Federal Representative (feds)
-Federal Senate (feds)
-The President (feds)

As for your other question, in the UK, local councils used to be responsible for building homes. But in the 1980s, as an election bribe, Margaret Thatcher gave people the opportunity to buy their council homes.

I'm not against home ownership, but Thatcher thought the private sector would fill the house building void, but surprise surprise, they didn't.

And then councils were discouraged from building council homes...

So 30 years after disaster was predicted, we have a major housing crisis in the UK and successive governments have done nothing to fix this!

Ah... I can see that can be an issue.

Sounds like ya'll need liberal relaxing of your zoning laws AND government incentives to kickstart the housing/building market.

I see a lot of old disused business premises and houses in Belfast and I always wonder why they aren't being fixed up or torn down and rebuilt into new homes. Sometimes we're talking whole streets of crumbling boarded up buildings overgrown with weeds. And these are in prime locations too. We don't necessarily need to mark out more land to build new houses/flats. We just need to make better use of the land we have already. And yes, we need to get home building back into the hands of local councils.

And I'm pretty sure it might be possible to divide England into separate 'states'. At the very least, it could be possible to put a line between north and south.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Brexit legal challenge dismissed: Northern Ireland case against EU withdrawal will not be heard

I doubt this will be the last we hear of this.

@ DIKLT

I dream of a properly federalised UK too. I think I already laid out my suggestions in here before.

As I've said before, a Federal UK is a non-starter because England is a) 80% of the UK and b) not interested.

a) is not England's fault, but b) does surprise me.

Cities like Liverpool and Manchester have shown some interests, but I'm surprised that historic regions like Cornwall are not interested.

Cornwall could do with devolution IMO.

Historically, Cornwall was part of Wales.

You do see some interesting in Cornish independence. You can tell by the people who has the Cornish flag on their cars. The black with a yellow cross.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I see a lot of old disused business premises and houses in Belfast and I always wonder why they aren't being fixed up or torn down and rebuilt into new homes. Sometimes we're talking whole streets of crumbling boarded up buildings overgrown with weeds. And these are in prime locations too. We don't necessarily need to mark out more land to build new houses/flats. We just need to make better use of the land we have already. And yes, we need to get home building back into the hands of local councils.

And I'm pretty sure it might be possible to divide England into separate 'states'. At the very least, it could be possible to put a line between north and south.

There is a line between the North and South in England - it's called Watford!

Who's the black with white cross?

Housing is an odd one, as far as I can tell, people are against building on the green belt, but get annoyed when their local council approves brown belt renovation i.e. not in my backyard, but also not in the abandond mill across the street. I guess having construction crews near bye is far to much hastle for your average Brit.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Brexit legal challenge dismissed: Northern Ireland case against EU withdrawal will not be heard

I doubt this will be the last we hear of this.

@ DIKLT

I dream of a properly federalised UK too. I think I already laid out my suggestions in here before.

As I've said before, a Federal UK is a non-starter because England is a) 80% of the UK and b) not interested.

a) is not England's fault, but b) does surprise me.

Cities like Liverpool and Manchester have shown some interests, but I'm surprised that historic regions like Cornwall are not interested.

Cornwall could do with devolution IMO.

Historically, Cornwall was part of Wales.

You do see some interesting in Cornish independence. You can tell by the people who has the Cornish flag on their cars. The black with a yellow cross.

Get your thieving Welsh paws off Cornwall!

On a serious note, I think the problem is this, and I don't blame everybody in England for this:

They complain that London and the South East starves funding from the North and Midlands, which is a legitimate grievance in my book.

But when somebody says, lets get devolution and give control to these areas, they moan about over paid politicians on the gravy train!

You can't win.

Sure, John Prescott's Northern Assembly was half-assed, but even if it had been done right, I doubt if there would be much enthusiasm for it.


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 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Who's the black with white diagonal cross?

Housing is an odd one, as far as I can tell, people are against building on the green belt, but get annoyed when their local council approves brown belt renovation i.e. not in my backyard, but also not in the abandond mill across the street. I guess having construction crews near bye is far to much hastle for your average Brit.

In my experience, your average Brit is against any building nearby, even when their neighbour puts up a new fence!

An Englishmans home is a castle as the old saying goes. You have to keep an eye on your neighbours in case they start building siege equipment.


The problem with too much devolution is that you end up with areas too poor to afford a decent standard of living. Sure, you could devolve the north, but the area is so poor they couldn't support themselves and would have no money to build anything up. London does need to start giving out to the other parts of the U.K.


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 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Who's the black with white cross?

Housing is an odd one, as far as I can tell, people are against building on the green belt, but get annoyed when their local council approves brown belt renovation i.e. not in my backyard, but also not in the abandond mill across the street. I guess having construction crews near bye is far to much hastle for your average Brit.

My bad, that's they Cornish flag. The black and yellow is the flag of st David.

 whembly wrote:

Sounds like ya'll need liberal relaxing of your zoning laws AND government incentives to kickstart the housing/building market.

The issue is that a bit over half of our elected representatives are landlords (they rent out property) or are invested in property, thus have a vested interest in keeping property prices high, which goes directly against the idea of building more councils.

And with the right-to-buy (which I think has been stopped), councils could build a house and were forced to sell houses at a loss, where the tennant can then sell at market price after a few years. So there was no incentive for the council to build it, and no reason for a tennant not to buy it. Discounts got at high as about 70% if you'd been a tennant for long enough, but I think you could buy after about 3 years for something like 25% discount.

 welshhoppo wrote:
The problem with too much devolution is that you end up with areas too poor to afford a decent standard of living. Sure, you could devolve the north, but the area is so poor they couldn't support themselves and would have no money to build anything up. London does need to start giving out to the other parts of the U.K.

I thought it was common knowledge that London does subsidies the rest of the UK;

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2100345/Londons-taxes-prop-rest-UK-One-pound-earned-capital-funds-rest-country.html

(a bit out of date I grant you but I don't imagine that the figures have changed that much)

As to devolution, the "English" perspective is clear; the vast majority on English are fully bought into being British. The differentiation betwixt British and English just does not exist as beyond the anachronism of our sporting teams. And please do not construe that as an assumed English hegemony or whatever.

Since devolution in England we now as a result have forms that ask what nationality you are and what country you were born in - pointless and reinforces divisive viewpoints.

So do the English want devolution - No it never crossed our minds until now and there just doesn't seem to be any positives to it..

Plus the obligatory we have enough politicians as it is thank you - I don't care how much they earn by the way I just feel that there must be a better class of individual out there i.e. leaders not party-line followers and lawyers.

As to devolution, the "English" perspective is clear; the vast majority on English are fully bought into being British. The differentiation betwixt British and English just does not exist as beyond the anachronism of our sporting teams. And please do not construe that as an assumed English hegemony or whatever.

This doesn't apply to dakka members, but in my experience, a lot of English people buy into Britain because they think it's one and the same, but it is not, and has never been. Britain is not greater England.

I've heard people argue that Scotland does not exist, only the UK, but that logic works both ways. In a UK parliament, there is no England, either.





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So do the English want devolution - No it never crossed our minds until now and there just doesn't seem to be any positives to it..

Plus the obligatory we have enough politicians as it is thank you - I don't care how much they earn by the way I just feel that there must be a better class of individual out there i.e. leaders not party-line followers and lawyers.

I would argue that English nationalism is on the rise, and that the Tory party, with what 313 MPs out of 330 or something being English constituencies, no longer give two hoots for the rest of the UK, and to be fair to them, why would they?

Plus I would also argue that you've reinforced what I was saying. People complain about Cornwall or Yorkshire not getting enough cash, but when push comes to shove, they're not interested in devolution or parliaments.

England has always had the majority at Westminster, and quite frankly they had what, 40 years to sort devolution and the West Lothian question?

Do you need another 40 years?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

As to devolution, the "English" perspective is clear; the vast majority on English are fully bought into being British. The differentiation betwixt British and English just does not exist as beyond the anachronism of our sporting teams. And please do not construe that as an assumed English hegemony or whatever.

This doesn't apply to dakka members, but in my experience, a lot of English people buy into Britain because they think it's one and the same, but it is not, and has never been. Britain is not greater England.

I "buy into Britain" because I feel I have far more in common with you than I do with continental Europeans. You are my fellow countryman, as far as I'm concerned. And therefore, the only political Union I want is a British one. And yes, Westminster needs to be reformed, things could and should be more equitable, regions should have more of a say in their own affairs, I just wish we could do it without balkanizing my country (Britain).

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I see a lot of old disused business premises and houses in Belfast and I always wonder why they aren't being fixed up or torn down and rebuilt into new homes. Sometimes we're talking whole streets of crumbling boarded up buildings overgrown with weeds. And these are in prime locations too. We don't necessarily need to mark out more land to build new houses/flats. We just need to make better use of the land we have already.

There is quite a lot of land and housing avalable in the U.K., but unfortunately not where people want to live. Where I live there is a chronic shortage of housing and house prices keep going up and up. We need lots of new houses, but unfortunately those with the power and land do everything they can to prevent new building, disputeing ever devepment, flooding the planning offices with objections, using the media and the courts if hey can. There has been claims of planting newts and bat droppings. Most of them are nonsense, but it costs the NIMBYS nothing but time, but the developers vast sums in time, administration and lawyers.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

As to devolution, the "English" perspective is clear; the vast majority on English are fully bought into being British. The differentiation betwixt British and English just does not exist as beyond the anachronism of our sporting teams. And please do not construe that as an assumed English hegemony or whatever.

This doesn't apply to dakka members, but in my experience, a lot of English people buy into Britain because they think it's one and the same, but it is not, and has never been. Britain is not greater England.

I "buy into Britain" because I feel I have far more in common with you than I do with continental Europeans. You are my fellow countryman, as far as I'm concerned. And therefore, the only political Union I want is a British one. And yes, Westminster needs to be reformed, things could and should be more equitable, regions should have more of a say in their own affairs, I just wish we could do it without balkanizing my country (Britain).

I'm not trying to offend people here, so if you feel British and believe yourself to be British, and believe in Britain fair enough, I can respect that. My views on Scottish independence are well known, but there will always be a soft spot in my heart for Britain, even if Scotland walks away from the UK.

Even if we (Scotland) go it alone, England, Wales, and both Irelands will always be close friends and allies to me.

Believe it or not, I spent a few years living and working in England!

In Cornwall, they never understood a word I said

What gets my goat is when people think England and Britain are inter-changeable or the attitude to other parts of the UK.

You've heard the old joke: when Andy Murray wins, he's British, when he loses, he's Scottish

Insert any other famous Celtic sportsman/woman <here>

As a Scot, I quite like the English but I'd rather have them as a friendly neighbour than an undemocratic ruler.

Herzlos wrote:
As a Scot, I quite like the English but I'd rather have them as a friendly neighbour than an undemocratic ruler.

My thoughts as well. Spot on.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

As to devolution, the "English" perspective is clear; the vast majority on English are fully bought into being British. The differentiation betwixt British and English just does not exist as beyond the anachronism of our sporting teams. And please do not construe that as an assumed English hegemony or whatever.

This doesn't apply to dakka members, but in my experience, a lot of English people buy into Britain because they think it's one and the same, but it is not, and has never been. Britain is not greater England.

I "buy into Britain" because I feel I have far more in common with you than I do with continental Europeans. You are my fellow countryman, as far as I'm concerned. And therefore, the only political Union I want is a British one. And yes, Westminster needs to be reformed, things could and should be more equitable, regions should have more of a say in their own affairs, I just wish we could do it without balkanizing my country (Britain).

I'm not trying to offend people here, so if you feel British and believe yourself to be British, and believe in Britain fair enough, I can respect that. My views on Scottish independence are well known, but there will always be a soft spot in my heart for Britain, even if Scotland walks away from the UK.

Even if we (Scotland) go it alone, England, Wales, and both Irelands will always be close friends and allies to me.

Believe it or not, I spent a few years living and working in England!

In Cornwall, they never understood a word I said

What gets my goat is when people think England and Britain are inter-changeable or the attitude to other parts of the UK.

You've heard the old joke: when Andy Murray wins, he's British, when he loses, he's Scottish

Insert any other famous Celtic sportsman/woman <here>

Hardly an old joke, makes me wonder what you got all in a lather about before 2012.

That whole post is indicative of the whole scenario though as I've experienced it, I start of saying there's no malice and a Scot comes along and makes it sound like he's being oppressed by the English. Many a Scottish friend in London (for there are many) have said they were happy to leave this sort of victimisation culture behind and just get on with things.

As for the England=Britain thing, as I say it more about buy-in. This is quite a pleasant little island we have the infighting and tribalism is/was well ancient. It's disappointing to see some hark back to this.

 notprop wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

As to devolution, the "English" perspective is clear; the vast majority on English are fully bought into being British. The differentiation betwixt British and English just does not exist as beyond the anachronism of our sporting teams. And please do not construe that as an assumed English hegemony or whatever.

This doesn't apply to dakka members, but in my experience, a lot of English people buy into Britain because they think it's one and the same, but it is not, and has never been. Britain is not greater England.

I "buy into Britain" because I feel I have far more in common with you than I do with continental Europeans. You are my fellow countryman, as far as I'm concerned. And therefore, the only political Union I want is a British one. And yes, Westminster needs to be reformed, things could and should be more equitable, regions should have more of a say in their own affairs, I just wish we could do it without balkanizing my country (Britain).

I'm not trying to offend people here, so if you feel British and believe yourself to be British, and believe in Britain fair enough, I can respect that. My views on Scottish independence are well known, but there will always be a soft spot in my heart for Britain, even if Scotland walks away from the UK.

Even if we (Scotland) go it alone, England, Wales, and both Irelands will always be close friends and allies to me.

Believe it or not, I spent a few years living and working in England!

In Cornwall, they never understood a word I said

What gets my goat is when people think England and Britain are inter-changeable or the attitude to other parts of the UK.

You've heard the old joke: when Andy Murray wins, he's British, when he loses, he's Scottish

Insert any other famous Celtic sportsman/woman <here>

Hardly an old joke, makes me wonder what you got all in a lather about before 2012.

That whole post is indicative of the whole scenario though as I've experienced it, I start of saying there's no malice and a Scot comes along and makes it sound like he's being oppressed by the English. Many a Scottish friend in London (for there are many) have said they were happy to leave this sort of victimisation culture behind and just get on with things.

As for the England=Britain thing, as I say it more about buy-in. This is quite a pleasant little island we have the infighting and tribalism is/was well ancient. It's disappointing to see some hark back to this.

We're not being oppressed in that sense, and suggest that would be silly, no argument there from me, but there is a democracy problem in my book.

2/3rds of Scotland votes to stay in the EU, but we're coming out anyway. And I say that as a leave voter.

1 Tory MP in Scotland, but we have a Tory government. Scottish votes have only affected 2 General elections in the last 100 years...

56 out of 59 Scottish MPs table amendments to last year's Scotland bill, Westminster says no.

Scotland: can we have power over corporation tax? Westminster: no. Scotland: but Northern Ireland has it. Westminster: I don't care. You ain't getting it.

Scotland: you said the reason why we couldn't vary VAT rates in Scotland was because of EU laws. We're leaving the EU, so can we have VAT powers and fishiries for the Scottish parliament? Westminster: Points and laughs at Scotland...

The vast majority of people in Scotland don't want Trident docked 20 miles away from Scotland's biggest city. Westminster couldn't care less....

I could go on and on and on...

It's either independence or some sort of federal system. Things cannot stay as they are.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Brexit legal challenge dismissed: Northern Ireland case against EU withdrawal will not be heard

I doubt this will be the last we hear of this.

@ DIKLT

I dream of a properly federalised UK too. I think I already laid out my suggestions in here before.

As I've said before, a Federal UK is a non-starter because England is a) 80% of the UK and b) not interested.

a) is not England's fault, but b) does surprise me.

Cities like Liverpool and Manchester have shown some interests, but I'm surprised that historic regions like Cornwall are not interested.

Cornwall could do with devolution IMO.

The UK could be federalised by counties.


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The vast majority of people in Scotland don't want Trident docked 20 miles away from Scotland's biggest city. Westminster couldn't care less....

Has there been a vote or a poll on that?

If you really don't want the jobs, I expect they could be exported to England and Wales.

Is there a danger in Scotland accepting further devolved powers in exchange for not leaving the union?

The genie is well out of the bottle considering the original indy ref and now Brexit.

I'm going to go out on a limb (I spent most of this evening smoking a fine Cuban cigar..... And yes I voted Tory twice so I'm probably enemy number 1 here)

But are the main issues caused by Scotland due to the fact that despite being part of the Union for 300 years, Scotland has flat out refused to integrate?

I'm curious what other people think, tobacco makes me philosophical......

 welshhoppo wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb (I spent most of this evening smoking a fine Cuban cigar..... And yes I voted Tory twice so I'm probably enemy number 1 here)

But are the main issues caused by Scotland due to the fact that despite being part of the Union for 300 years, Scotland has flat out refused to integrate?

I'm curious what other people think, tobacco makes me philosophical......

I don't know what you mean by 'caused by Scotland'. There are probably ingrained historic attitudes both sides of the border, you could generously call them cultural differences I suppose. It has been my experience that Scotland has been seen as something of a child Being 'seen and not heard' springs to mind.

When has Scotland not been heard?

The place and it's devolution/I depended comped up every half page. It's less than a tenth of the population of the UK but wants to take up all the billing!

I wouldn't say that Scotland doesn't integrate though, but they want to do so on their own terms; and when those terms are met then new terms are drafted and put forward.

This puts me in mind of a building on the City Road, it's the office for a Scottish Charity that helps struggling Scots in...England...because there's no welfare system here I guess?

I don't think it's a refusal to integrate, more a combination of cultural identity, having different political leanings and being completely ignored by the larger group.

We have different laws because we feel differently about them and any suggestion of the union taking on the changes is completely disregarded.

That said, we definitely benefit from a shared currency and open border and mostly identical legal system.

 welshhoppo wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb (I spent most of this evening smoking a fine Cuban cigar..... And yes I voted Tory twice so I'm probably enemy number 1 here)

But are the main issues caused by Scotland due to the fact that despite being part of the Union for 300 years, Scotland has flat out refused to integrate?

I'm curious what other people think, tobacco makes me philosophical......

Speaking for myself, I value the differences between Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales, and the differences in other regions. I believe as long as everyone subscribes to the same basic values of human decency and rights, plural democracy and the rule of law, the differences and diversity are good. They make us stronger by not being a monoculture, and they make life more interesting. The world would be a duller place if the only spirit was London dry gin, and the only beer was bitter. That is why I valued being part of the EU, too. I like it that in Scottish courts there is a verdict of "Not Proven" (we know you did it but we can't prove it fully.)

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Is there a danger in Scotland accepting further devolved powers in exchange for not leaving the union?

The genie is well out of the bottle considering the original indy ref and now Brexit.

Westminster has a legitimate fear IMO that if they give Scotland too much power, then it will be de facto independent. Something similar happened with New Zealand.

But Westminster also has the problem that if they don't budge an inch, then they could lose the lot. It's a Catch 22.


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 welshhoppo wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb (I spent most of this evening smoking a fine Cuban cigar..... And yes I voted Tory twice so I'm probably enemy number 1 here)

But are the main issues caused by Scotland due to the fact that despite being part of the Union for 300 years, Scotland has flat out refused to integrate?

I'm curious what other people think, tobacco makes me philosophical......

Integration has never been a problem, and there's nothing wrong with voting Tory.

Personally, I despise the Tory party, but if you want to vote for them, keep voting for them. We need a healthy multi-party democracy.

But Scotland has different needs to England, and here's an example:

Scotland's population has been historically in decline because of large scale emigration over the years and the knock on effects of WW1/WW2. Scottish casualties were disproportionately high compared to the rest of the UK. 1 in 5 Glasgow men were killed or wounded in WW1...

Recently, the population has begun to climb due to immigration. Scotland needs immigrants for our ageing population.

Immigration is not such a big problem in Scotland as it is in the rest of the UK, but Westminster has this one size fits all policy for the whole of the UK.

You can imagine the problems that causes.




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 Kilkrazy wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb (I spent most of this evening smoking a fine Cuban cigar..... And yes I voted Tory twice so I'm probably enemy number 1 here)

But are the main issues caused by Scotland due to the fact that despite being part of the Union for 300 years, Scotland has flat out refused to integrate?

I'm curious what other people think, tobacco makes me philosophical......

Speaking for myself, I value the differences between Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales, and the differences in other regions. I believe as long as everyone subscribes to the same basic values of human decency and rights, plural democracy and the rule of law, the differences and diversity are good. They make us stronger by not being a monoculture, and they make life more interesting. The world would be a duller place if the only spirit was London dry gin, and the only beer was bitter. That is why I valued being part of the EU, too. I like it that in Scottish courts there is a verdict of "Not Proven" (we know you did it but we can't prove it fully.)

You still still drink French wine, visit France etc etc even after Brexit, and people did it before the EU.

I know what you're saying, but the EU is not Europe.


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Holy horsegak!

Toby Young to take over as head of New Schools network

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/oct/29/toby-young-head-new-schools-network-nsn-free-schools#comments

The Tories have well and truly lost the plot. They are trolling the UK and they don't care if people object

Something about, I didn't vote for him.

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Something about, I didn't vote for him.

This is the new style of politics where we get our Democracy back!

Anyway it appears that more and more of the major companies are starting to increase prices now (not just miniature train companies)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37799235

This will probably mean that slower, older computers will become more common. The technology of yesterday will now become the technology of tomorrow!

That's a good thing, because older computers use less power, and we will be paying triple the market rate to the French-Chinese corporation that builds and owns our critical baseline nuclear power infrastructure.

I don't know about you guys but I think it was a mistake to ever upgrade from Windows 98.

And these new-fangled "flat screens". You can't even play the "make the hairs of your arms stand up" game whilst you wait for the picture to appear after turning them on.

I was still using Windows XP until 2 years ago. Now I'm using Windows 7...