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Well, it looks like I may have to change my avatar
The die is cast...
We sail into uncharted waters. How it will play it, God knows...
It won't be easy, but I believe that we as a nation have the ability, the skills, and a rich tradition to draw on of many years of historic and scientific achievements to make Brexit a success.
We can do it...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
The question is whether we should abandon all of our scoial values just so we can pander to an evil, trivial, little shyster like Trump.
I used to work security in the high value booths at Royal Ascot. Trump's merely the latest at the back of a long queue of total gaks we quite happily relieve of their quids, and he's far from the worst of them!
But as firmly established already, nobody cares about the others unless enough people are talking about them to give each other celebratory back-rubs for 'standing up to evil', or it directly impacts on them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/01 20:51:25
We sail into uncharted waters. How it will play it, God knows...
It won't be easy, but I believe that we as a nation have the ability, the skills, and a rich tradition to draw on of many years of historic and scientific achievements to make Brexit a success.
We can do it...
Which nation? I feel you will have a hard time trying to define the UK as a whole nation despite London's belief it unilaterally exists as one.
"As a customer, I'd really like to like GW, but they seem to hate me." - Ouze "All politicians are upperclass idiots"
Mozzyfuzzy wrote: I'm fairly certain it morphed into the EU with our consent, or more specifically the people we had elected at the time's consent, which is basically the same thing.
No its not. Parliament consented. The Electorate was not asked.
We got the EU Referendum because David Cameron promised it in his manifesto, and had no choice but to deliver on that promise when the Tories won an unexpected majority. And likewise, we elected the MP's who consented to joining the EU based on their election manifesto promises.
Did they...
A) explicitly campaign for Parliament on a central platform of "We want Britain to join the European Union, vote for us and we'll make it happen" thereby making joining the EU a central issue in that General Election and therefore giving them a clear mandate for joining the EU?
B) bury their intention to join the EU amongst a number of other promises on more pressing issues at the time thereby conflating the reasons people voted for them "We'll increase NHS funding by X million pounds, we'll raise benefits, We'll have Britain join the European Union, we'll cut military spending, we'll fund free daycare for all working mothers".
or...
C) Campaign on all of the issues above but made no indication of the EU, therefore getting themselves elected and then doing as they please on issues they did NOT campaign on, such as the EU?
Campaigning on XYZ promises, then doing whatever they please on issues that were not central parts of their platform =/= "We elected them to take us into the EU".
This is why I think its important to go directly to the people with Referenda to find out what the electorate thinks on a SPECIFIC issue when it comes to extremely important Constitutional issues like Devolution, changing the electoral system, Scottish independence, and British independence from the EU. We were asked back in the 70's whether we wanted to remain a member of the EEC, and we were (rightly) asked whether we want to remain a member of the EU.
We might be a Representative Democracy, not a direct Democracy, but that doesn't mean MP's should always have a carte blanche to do as they please.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/01 21:43:32
We sail into uncharted waters. How it will play it, God knows...
It won't be easy, but I believe that we as a nation have the ability, the skills, and a rich tradition to draw on of many years of historic and scientific achievements to make Brexit a success.
We can do it...
Which nation? I feel you will have a hard time trying to define the UK as a whole nation despite London's belief it unilaterally exists as one.
With the exception of Scotland, I believe that the rest of the UK will put aside any differences and try and make Brexit a success. We're that kind of country.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
We sail into uncharted waters. How it will play it, God knows...
It won't be easy, but I believe that we as a nation have the ability, the skills, and a rich tradition to draw on of many years of historic and scientific achievements to make Brexit a success.
We can do it...
Just have to hold out for 10 years. Then enough old farts will have pegged it and we get back to the real business of rejoining the EU and bringing some sanity back. After the rest of the world leaves us behind we might be glad to as well. We can all then point and mock May the Appeaser.
The UK will more likely be the NUK by then though (i.e. Not United Kingdom)
The question is whether we should abandon all of our scoial values just so we can pander to an evil, trivial, little shyster like Trump.
I used to work security in the high value booths at Royal Ascot. Trump's merely the latest at the back of a long queue of total gaks we quite happily relieve of their quids, and he's far from the worst of them!
But as firmly established already, nobody cares about the others unless enough people are talking about them to give each other celebratory back-rubs for 'standing up to evil', or it directly impacts on them.
Yes there are far worse people, but then they don't have control of the largest military and economic machine since the 1940s. Last time a nutcase got in charge of that much power and started to replace anyone that disagreed with him, well that didn't end well.
We can take his money as much as we want but it is still dirty laundry. When next time someone complains about 'corrupt' banks I think we'll need to take a good hard look at ourselves first.
With the exception of Scotland, I believe that the rest of the UK will put aside any differences and try and make Brexit a success. We're that kind of country.
Sorry, there's no f'ing chance that's going to happen. I'm going to make it a priority to ensure that every child, man and woman I come across know just how much their future has been screwed over by this decision; it will be the thing I'll be asking every politician at every single election.
As I've said before I will also make it a mission to buy everything from the EU...
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/02/01 21:43:58
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
We sail into uncharted waters. How it will play it, God knows...
It won't be easy, but I believe that we as a nation have the ability, the skills, and a rich tradition to draw on of many years of historic and scientific achievements to make Brexit a success.
We can do it...
Just have to hold out for 10 years. Then enough old farts will have pegged it and we get back to the real business of rejoining the EU and bringing some sanity back. After the rest of the world leaves us behind we might be glad to as well. We can all then point and mock May the Appeaser.
The UK will more likely be the NUK by then though (i.e. Not United Kingdom)
The question is whether we should abandon all of our scoial values just so we can pander to an evil, trivial, little shyster like Trump.
I used to work security in the high value booths at Royal Ascot. Trump's merely the latest at the back of a long queue of total gaks we quite happily relieve of their quids, and he's far from the worst of them!
But as firmly established already, nobody cares about the others unless enough people are talking about them to give each other celebratory back-rubs for 'standing up to evil', or it directly impacts on them.
Yes there are far worse people, but then they don't have control of the largest military and economic machine since the 1940s. Last time a nutcase got in charge of that much power and started to replace anyone that disagreed with him, well that didn't end well.
We can take his money as much as we want but it is still dirty laundry. When next time someone complains about 'corrupt' banks I think we'll need to take a good hard look at ourselves first.
Even if we wanted to rejoin the EU, they'd never take us back. That ship has sailed.
Moving forward, I wonder what will happen to the Labour party? They're in a right mess. And what will UKIP do? Surely, there is no need for them...
For me, Brexit is not the problem. The Tory vision of Brexit is the problem. I don't trust them an inch.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
We sail into uncharted waters. How it will play it, God knows...
It won't be easy, but I believe that we as a nation have the ability, the skills, and a rich tradition to draw on of many years of historic and scientific achievements to make Brexit a success.
We can do it...
Just have to hold out for 10 years. Then enough old farts will have pegged it and we get back to the real business of rejoining the EU and bringing some sanity back. After the rest of the world leaves us behind we might be glad to as well. We can all then point and mock May the Appeaser.
Thats assuming the EU hasn't collapsed in the meantime. The EU is (in the words of EU leaders), facing an existential crisis.
Everybody said that Britain would not vote to Leave. It did.
Everybody said that America would not elect Donald Trump. Indeed the very idea was considered laughable. But it did.
Now people are no doubt also saying that France will not elect Marine Le Penn.
Germany has an upcoming election too, and Merkel is probably at her weakest point in her entire political career.
Greece is in a horrible state, and I doubt Greeks are looking too kindly on the EU at the moment.
edit: Greece is on the verge of blowing up yet again.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Even if we wanted to rejoin the EU, they'd never take us back. That ship has sailed.
I don't think that's true. I think you would just get a way worse deal out of it that what you previously had. (I'm really not an expert though. If I'm wrong I'll happily learn from your explanation)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/01 21:59:20
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Even if we wanted to rejoin the EU, they'd never take us back. That ship has sailed.
I don't think that's true. I think you would just get a way worse deal out of it that what you previously had.
(I'm really not an expert though. If I'm wrong I'll happily learn from your explanation)
I'm inclined to agree they would have us back but it won'[t be as beneficial. England and Wales (which it will likely be that point) will have lost both significant ground economically and as a political nation and likely more akin to Spain/Italy. Still reasonable in size but no where near as influential compared to France and Germany. it's surprising how little people realise we are giving up for some ill conceived notion of patriotism (and for some including the incumbent government bigotry). Still we might be desperate to join the Euro by then. I suppose the real question is whether Scotland will make it awkward as they point and laugh at little England.
The EU has lots of life left in it. There's no need to worry about this. The UK probably five years or so (and I'll do my best to vote for Scotland to Leave because I think that will be best for them).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/01 22:36:39
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Yep, I can't see Scotland hanging around after the baby boomers start dying out. I think we'll also see drastic political shifts in Northern Ireland too, I've always thought I'd live to see a united Ireland, and I think this brings that possibility forward a few steps.
As for rejoining the EU? At this time, I'm not sure that's going to happen until people actually see and experience for themselves the reality of what they've done. I'm pretty confident that we will probably be OK, poorer and not as prominent as we once were, but tbh that's not a bad thing.
Britain has not been a world power for decades, this act has actually put the final nail in the coffin of that idea. We're no better or worse than Norway, or Iceland now and we should start acting like it. Stop acting like some sort of dominant global leader, but a medium sized country on a small island just like everyone else.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
r_squared wrote: Stop acting like some sort of dominant global leader, but a medium sized country on a small island just like everyone else.
Errr.....Out of about 223 countries, we have the 5th largest economy, 4th highest military expenditure, 21st population size (slated to hit 15th within fairly close projections), a far above proportion number of global ranking Universities, and so on....
Whether we want to act like a dominant global leader is another question altogether, but by most measurements, we're certainly up there in the global dominant elite.
Outside of China, America, and the collective EU, there isn't really anyone else who can match our total combined economic/military/cultural/institutional strength. Germany, Japan, and France debatably perhaps, but that's about it. Russia's fallen long behind economically despite their large military, and India's still trying to figure out how to manage a currency transition without throwing their entire economy off kilter. Don't fall victim to declinist portrayals of Britain, they're demonstrably fallacious for the most part.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/02/01 23:39:32
We sail into uncharted waters. How it will play it, God knows...
It won't be easy, but I believe that we as a nation have the ability, the skills, and a rich tradition to draw on of many years of historic and scientific achievements to make Brexit a success.
We can do it...
Which nation? I feel you will have a hard time trying to define the UK as a whole nation despite London's belief it unilaterally exists as one.
With the exception of Scotland, I believe that the rest of the UK will put aside any differences and try and make Brexit a success. We're that kind of country.
Haha, you forgot Northen Ireland, that is a ticking time bomb. The good Friday deal was facilitated by the existence of the EU. The people could get along because they could choose to be unionist or republican. The logic of Brexit now means the unionist's have what they want, Westminster in charge. 92% of the Catholic population voted remain compared to about 48% Protestants. Even if the sectarian violence does not resume, it is going to be one massive constitutional mess. I think one thing (particularly those of us who are English have forgotten), the EU gave the devolved parliaments somewhere to turn to if they disagreed with Westminster. This is about to change massively. The border is somewhat irrelavent, a deal will be brokered but those who are not fans of Westminster are about to be left with little choice but to directly oppose it or get on with things. What is especially worrying, every time someone has brought up NI in parliament that I have witnesssed, May and Davies have just shrugged it off. There is an assumption that NI is just going to play ball because it lacks the seat and voice in parliament. I have a bad feeling that their going to find taking this view a big mistake in the not too distant future.
Yeah, but you don't have nukes now, do you ? Even Pakistan has nuke, and their government can't even control their whole territory. Even North Korea has them, and they rely on foreign aid to have enough food to survive! How can you pretend that your country is a somebody if it doesn't have nukes!
(Just to be clear, this is all in jest and not serious.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/02 00:02:09
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
r_squared wrote: Stop acting like some sort of dominant global leader, but a medium sized country on a small island just like everyone else.
Errr.....Out of about 223 countries, we have the 5th largest economy, 4th highest military expenditure, 21st population size (slated to hit 15th within fairly close projections), a far above proportion number of global ranking Universities, and so on....
Whether we want to act like a dominant global leader is another question altogether, but by most measurements, we're certainly up there in the global dominant elite.
Outside of China, America, and the collective EU, there isn't really anyone else who can match our total combined economic/military/cultural/institutional strength. Germany, Japan, and France debatably perhaps, but that's about it. Russia's fallen long behind economically despite their large military, and India's still trying to figure out how to manage a currency transition without throwing their entire economy off kilter. Don't fall victim to declinist portrayals of Britain, they're demonstrably fallacious for the most part.
For now, certainly, but there is likely to be a significant period of adjustment. Who really knows, but the argument that everything is OK right now, doesn't hold water.
78.4% of our GDP is from services, without being members of the single market, a huge factor in the growth of that market, it's not unreasonable to assume that things will change. Especially if May gets us into a tax war with the EU and we have less to spend on military spending, and universities.
We have closed ourselves off to a lucrative market for political reasons, we are negotiating with the US from a position of weakness, I'm confident that whatever happens next, it's not going to improve our financial and global standing.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, because I've worked very hard for a long time to get where I am now, and I'm not keen to watch the future I've built for my family get flushed down the khazi.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Co'tor Shas wrote: If Scotland leaves, could it join the EU? I know it voted heavily in favour of stay.
If Scotland gains independence from the UK and meets the requirements for EU entry, and is accepted by the other member states, then yes.
We sail into uncharted waters. How it will play it, God knows...
It won't be easy, but I believe that we as a nation have the ability, the skills, and a rich tradition to draw on of many years of historic and scientific achievements to make Brexit a success.
We can do it...
Which nation? I feel you will have a hard time trying to define the UK as a whole nation despite London's belief it unilaterally exists as one.
With the exception of Scotland, I believe that the rest of the UK will put aside any differences and try and make Brexit a success. We're that kind of country.
Haha, you forgot Northen Ireland, that is a ticking time bomb. The good Friday deal was facilitated by the existence of the EU. The people could get along because they could choose to be unionist or republican. The logic of Brexit now means the unionist's have what they want, Westminster in charge. 92% of the Catholic population voted remain compared to about 48% Protestants. Even if the sectarian violence does not resume, it is going to be one massive constitutional mess. I think one thing (particularly those of us who are English have forgotten), the EU gave the devolved parliaments somewhere to turn to if they disagreed with Westminster. This is about to change massively. The border is somewhat irrelavent, a deal will be brokered but those who are not fans of Westminster are about to be left with little choice but to directly oppose it or get on with things. What is especially worrying, every time someone has brought up NI in parliament that I have witnesssed, May and Davies have just shrugged it off. There is an assumption that NI is just going to play ball because it lacks the seat and voice in parliament. I have a bad feeling that their going to find taking this view a big mistake in the not too distant future.
I think the NI issue is going to be a real problem for May. We've been lulled by peace for a while now, but how long that will last if borders go up, and relationships between states start shifting about is anyone's guess.
I'll be very interested to see what part it plays in negotiations with the EU.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/02/02 00:18:55
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
For now, certainly, but there is likely to be a significant period of adjustment. Who really knows, but the argument that everything is OK right now, doesn't hold water.
78.4% of our GDP is from services, without being members of the single market, a huge factor in the growth of that market, it's not unreasonable to assume that things will change. Especially if May gets us into a tax war with the EU and we have less to spend on military spending, and universities.
We have closed ourselves off to a lucrative market for political reasons, we are negotiating with the US from a position of weakness, I'm confident that whatever happens next, it's not going to improve our financial and global standing.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, because I've worked very hard for a long time to get where I am now, and I'm not keen to watch the future I've built for my family get flushed down the khazi.
I wasn't saying that everything was 'ok', merely pointing out the UK is actually still really quite important and a major player, globally speaking. Whether it will continue to be in the future, I really couldn't say (I wish I could!) Like you, I try and hope it'll all work out in the end (and historically speaking, I've noticed things tend to).
The reason I felt the need to contradict you is because one often hears (not necessarily talking about you here) from many demi-liberally inclined types a vague declaration along the lines of 'Oh! We're just a tiny island pretending we're still an Empire, when we're really no more important, relevant, or powerful than Norway/Sweden/other Nordic country.' It usually derives from some half read tripe by Correlli Barnett or Paul Kennedy which was of dubious sourcing to begin with, and is quite simply inaccurate and untrue by practically any relevant unit of measurement for this sort of thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/02 00:29:00
Tbh, the border itself will be somewhat irrelevant, it's almost inevitable that travel will remain free. The issue, which has not been discussed, is that the EU facilitates peace because the unionist get there way and the republicans there's. No one is really forcing or defined the nationality of NI. Brexit though is going to force this definition, and where the power comes from. The same has been true with the other devolved parliments. The EU's formation sped the entire process up immensely as effectively all the treaties e.t.c were not needed when the parliment's formed. It also prevented any one group from having to define itself as 'British'. London logic is to assume that the outer regions are just the same as them really. I think the best example of this miss calculation is in Wales. The regions that voted to leave, historically have been the regions that moved furthest from the Welsh culture, language e.t.c, with the exception of Cardiff and Vale of Glammorgan. We can assume these regions realised were the hand that fed them came from. The regions that voted to remain, Ceredigion and Gwynedd, are the two areas that have embraced the Language act the most and historically are the most independent areas of Wales, retaining much of the pre-victorian culture. There is also a very strong Plain community in these regions. The EU gave these areas protection in a sense from London, as well as these areas beneffiting massively from funding London was unwilling to provide (half the trail centers and railways in the regions host EU placards).
If you can find any of his work, Professor Michael Keating from Aberdeen University has a very eloquent argument that describes why the union has survived and why Brexit is going to undermine this massively (I was lucky enough to be in a lecture he gave yesterday). The bottom line is, the more Brexit forces relationships with the idea of 'Britain' to be defined, the more people are going to get pissed off and the more London's belief that the UK is unilateral in its actions and how it defines itself will be undermined.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/02 00:54:34
"As a customer, I'd really like to like GW, but they seem to hate me." - Ouze "All politicians are upperclass idiots"
Co'tor Shas wrote: If Scotland leaves, could it join the EU? I know it voted heavily in favour of stay.
An independent Scotland would be quickly welcomed by the rest of the EU (even the Spanish). We already conform to EU regulations, the EU wants us and Scots generally want the EU. If nothing else the EU would do it just to piss of Westminster.
Ketara wrote: 'Oh! We're just a tiny island pretending we're still an Empire, when we're really no more important, relevant, or powerful than Norway/Sweden/other Nordic country.'
Give it a couple of years and that may well be true
The UK's political power is built around finance and 'soft' power (foreign aid, diplomacy etc), both of these areas are being threatened and will almost certainly degrade to at least some degree. I simply can't see Brexit making the UK a more significant player in the world, quite the reverse.
On the subject of US food standards, there aren't all that bad. The only major one that I have any concerns about are the widespread use of growth hormones, although the industrial use of antibiotics is a far greater issue but that's at least as bad in the EU. 'Bleaching' chicken doesn't bother me and it has no associated health risks but it does cut back on Campylobacter and Salmonella infections. Similarly the EU's frankly hysterical view on GM foods is far from scientific.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/02 07:40:36
Co'tor Shas wrote: If Scotland leaves, could it join the EU? I know it voted heavily in favour of stay.
An independent Scotland would be quickly welcomed by the rest of the EU (even the Spanish). We already conform to EU regulations, the EU wants us and Scots generally want the EU. If nothing else the EU would do it just to piss of Westminster.
Ketara wrote: 'Oh! We're just a tiny island pretending we're still an Empire, when we're really no more important, relevant, or powerful than Norway/Sweden/other Nordic country.'
Give it a couple of years and that may well be true
The UK's political power is built around finance and 'soft' power (foreign aid, diplomacy etc), both of these areas are being threatened and will almost certainly degrade to at least some degree. I simply can't see Brexit making the UK a more significant player in the world, quite the reverse.
On the subject of US food standards, there aren't all that bad. The only major one that I have any concerns about are the widespread use of growth hormones, although the industrial use of antibiotics is a far greater issue but that's at least as bad in the EU. 'Bleaching' chicken doesn't bother me and it has no associated health risks but it does cut back on Campylobacter and Salmonella infections. Similarly the EU's frankly hysterical view on GM foods is far from scientific.
Is that actually true - the EU is not really looking for more nations that would be taking money rather than contributing money to the budget.
They already have budget issues looming with the British exit.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Mr Morden wrote: [
Is that actually true - the EU is not really looking for more nations that would be taking money rather than contributing money to the budget.
If you mean on Scotland EU membership then yes, it is. At least that's what various EU and European diplomats and politicians have been saying.
Everyone has budget issues looming with the English brexit
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/02 07:48:36
Mr Morden wrote: [
Is that actually true - the EU is not really looking for more nations that would be taking money rather than contributing money to the budget.
If you mean on Scotland EU membership then yes, it is. At least that's what various EU and European diplomats and politicians have been saying.
Everyone has budget issues looming with the English brexit
Hmm I had seen various pieces where they were at best luke warm and those nations with their own independence issues, like Spain were totally against.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Even if we wanted to rejoin the EU, they'd never take us back. That ship has sailed.
I don't think that's true. I think you would just get a way worse deal out of it that what you previously had.
(I'm really not an expert though. If I'm wrong I'll happily learn from your explanation)
If we got back in, and it's a big if, I doubt if we would get any of the opt outs, rebates, free biscuits, or any other deals we've manged to shake down the EU for over the years.
It would be a clean slate.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: One good point though is that the countryn of origin has to be clearly labelled, so I'll know what to avoid should the worst come to the worst.
I'd happily pay extra for British stuff over dodgy American stuff any day of the week, and I suspect I wouldn't be the only one.
Assuming removal of such label isn't part of the deal....
On the subject of US food standards, there aren't all that bad. The only major one that I have any concerns about are the widespread use of growth hormones, although the industrial use of antibiotics is a far greater issue but that's at least as bad in the EU.
Nowhere near as bad. Antibiotics used as, well, antibiotics are of course used in the EU.
Antibiotic use as growth regulator, as well as preventive use of antibiotics is allowed in the US, but forbidden in the EU.
In the US 5 times as many antibiotics are used for cattle as they are for humans. In the EU the figure used to be 2 to 1, about 5 years ago and is now something in the 150% range.
Just like the US allows antibiotics to be used in vegetables (oxytetracycline and streptomycin mostly) a practise that is banned in Europe. Like this:
Good to know there is finally movement on article 50, its been a shame so many conflicts of interest have been throwing a spanner in the works and dragging it out so long. I truly hope there isn't going to be too much dirty politics or watering it down with amendments to please everybody - Yes im looking right out you Sturgeon and S.N.P! Points I would like to see as follows:
- What we need is a revised immigration policy to make it fairer for non EU people and to make it harder for EU residents for a change.
- As little appeasement to the EU in the process and as little money/no money being wasted on the EU after physically leaving
- Amendments to EU policies that have become law e.g. common agricultural policy that does not work in the UK (more of a case of robbing peter to pay paul)
- A conclusive shut up to Scotland's eternal moaning
- Get all ambassadors to average trade meetings with suitable foreign nations
The list could go on, lets hope it runs a little smoother than the run up to the debate on the debate on whether we should trigger article 50
? Even Pakistan has nuke, and their government can't even control their whole territory. Even North Korea has them, and they rely on foreign aid to have enough food to survive! How can you pretend that your country is a somebody if it doesn't have nukes!
