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Whirlwind wrote: ...As I've said before I will also make it a mission to buy everything from the EU...
I'm sure the sour grape growers of Europe will be most pleased at your continued custom.
On the other hand, if you expect these shysters in the Tory party to launch a glorious post-Brexit mass house building program, then I think you'll be disappointed
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/02 10:44:33
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Whirlwind wrote: ...As I've said before I will also make it a mission to buy everything from the EU...
I'm sure the sour grape growers of Europe will be most pleased at your continued custom.
On the other hand, if you expect these shysters in the Tory party to launch a glorious post-Brexit mass house building program, then I think you'll be disappointed
The EU's bureaucracy has made it too hard for them to shift Farage or any Euro-sceptics out.
Personally the whole we need more houses is a flawed concept because it never comes with improved services. Unfortunately there is never enough money or consideration about schools, G.P services or roads when these mass schemes go ahead. In my area every village is to receive 400 homes, every town 2500 - 5000 homes yet no improvements to services. So far this is just a piece of paper, but already one program to double the size of a town has gone ahead. This originally came with a new purpose built school, but that was scrapped on cost.
The EU will be in denial all the way to the end, unfortunately there are more cases of sour grapes at home than abroad. Theres even one house I know of that has a EU flag on half-mast! Of course those places that saw the golden light of EU membership will suffer, but it will give many other parts of the country a chance to catch up and improve. I unfortunately live in an area that has been hit by the worst effects of the EU, so things can only get better
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/02 10:55:00
I thought the EU were going to run Farage out of Brussels?
Mores the pity but he is a representative of the UK and so they have to tolerate his presence. They will however rightly ask for their money back just like Le Pen. One assumes of course this is being rolled out to all MEPs and not just targeted?
Whirlwind wrote: ...As I've said before I will also make it a mission to buy everything from the EU...
I'm sure the sour grape growers of Europe will be most pleased at your continued custom.
On the other hand, if you expect these shysters in the Tory party to launch a glorious post-Brexit mass house building program, then I think you'll be disappointed
I don't build houses, just high end apartments and commercial buildings - the futures bright, the future (and present) is Chinese and !ndian.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
I'm hoping for an independent, EU-member Scotland as one of the few consolations out of this whole deal. I have plenty of family and friends up there... there's some great games courses at Abertay Uni too.
I thought the EU were going to run Farage out of Brussels?
Mores the pity but he is a representative of the UK and so they have to tolerate his presence. They will however rightly ask for their money back just like Le Pen. One assumes of course this is being rolled out to all MEPs and not just targeted?
Whirlwind wrote: ...As I've said before I will also make it a mission to buy everything from the EU...
I'm sure the sour grape growers of Europe will be most pleased at your continued custom.
On the other hand, if you expect these shysters in the Tory party to launch a glorious post-Brexit mass house building program, then I think you'll be disappointed
I don't build houses, just high end apartments and commercial buildings - the futures bright, the future (and present) is Chinese and !ndian.
You're not building flats or appartments - you're building empty boxes for dodgy money to be invested! People like you are destroying communities and turning London into a ghost town! Damn you!
Whirlwind wrote: ...As I've said before I will also make it a mission to buy everything from the EU...
I'm sure the sour grape growers of Europe will be most pleased at your continued custom.
On the other hand, if you expect these shysters in the Tory party to launch a glorious post-Brexit mass house building program, then I think you'll be disappointed
The EU's bureaucracy has made it too hard for them to shift Farage or any Euro-sceptics out.
Personally the whole we need more houses is a flawed concept because it never comes with improved services. Unfortunately there is never enough money or consideration about schools, G.P services or roads when these mass schemes go ahead. In my area every village is to receive 400 homes, every town 2500 - 5000 homes yet no improvements to services. So far this is just a piece of paper, but already one program to double the size of a town has gone ahead. This originally came with a new purpose built school, but that was scrapped on cost.
The EU will be in denial all the way to the end, unfortunately there are more cases of sour grapes at home than abroad. Theres even one house I know of that has a EU flag on half-mast! Of course those places that saw the golden light of EU membership will suffer, but it will give many other parts of the country a chance to catch up and improve. I unfortunately live in an area that has been hit by the worst effects of the EU, so things can only get better
We're supposed to be getting new towns down in England, but I'm still waiting for the Northern Powerhouse
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/02 11:29:31
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Sentinel1 wrote: Of course those places that saw the golden light of EU membership will suffer, but it will give many other parts of the country a chance to catch up and improve. I unfortunately live in an area that has been hit by the worst effects of the EU, so things can only get better
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what the worst effects of the EU are and how they affected your local area. And who enjoyed the "golden light" and who didn't? How do you hope leaving the EU will redress the balance?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Well, for some people the war is over - we're out of the EU and I'm glad we're going down that road, me being a leave voter and all that.
None the less, the war is not over for me. I have another campaign to fight for: Scottish Independence.
The chains of Brussels have gone, but the shackles of Westminster still need to be thrown off.
Scotland first out of EU with UK and then back as independent nation. That makes sense to fight for :lol:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Well, for some people the war is over - we're out of the EU and I'm glad we're going down that road, me being a leave voter and all that.
None the less, the war is not over for me. I have another campaign to fight for: Scottish Independence.
The chains of Brussels have gone, but the shackles of Westminster still need to be thrown off.
What will you do if, on finally gaining the independence you seek, Scotland elects to rejoin the EU?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Well, for some people the war is over - we're out of the EU and I'm glad we're going down that road, me being a leave voter and all that.
None the less, the war is not over for me. I have another campaign to fight for: Scottish Independence.
The chains of Brussels have gone, but the shackles of Westminster still need to be thrown off.
Scotland first out of EU with UK and then back as independent nation. That makes sense to fight for :lol:
Well they will need someone to fund their overspending if the UK isn't doing it!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/02 11:47:50
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Well, for some people the war is over - we're out of the EU and I'm glad we're going down that road, me being a leave voter and all that.
None the less, the war is not over for me. I have another campaign to fight for: Scottish Independence.
The chains of Brussels have gone, but the shackles of Westminster still need to be thrown off.
Scotland first out of EU with UK and then back as independent nation. That makes sense to fight for :lol:
We shall extend the hand of friendship to Finland.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Well, for some people the war is over - we're out of the EU and I'm glad we're going down that road, me being a leave voter and all that.
None the less, the war is not over for me. I have another campaign to fight for: Scottish Independence.
The chains of Brussels have gone, but the shackles of Westminster still need to be thrown off.
What will you do if, on finally gaining the independence you seek, Scotland elects to rejoin the EU?
I shall respect the people's vote, as always.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/02 11:50:15
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
You're not building flats or appartments - you're building empty boxes for dodgy money to be invested! People like you are destroying communities and turning London into a ghost town! Damn you!
Yeah boi!
But look at all this pimping bling I got innit!
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Well, for some people the war is over - we're out of the EU and I'm glad we're going down that road, me being a leave voter and all that.
None the less, the war is not over for me. I have another campaign to fight for: Scottish Independence.
The chains of Brussels have gone, but the shackles of Westminster still need to be thrown off.
Scotland first out of EU with UK and then back as independent nation. That makes sense to fight for :lol:
Well they will need someone to fund their overspending if the UK isn't doing it!
We live within our means
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Whirlwind wrote: ...As I've said before I will also make it a mission to buy everything from the EU...
I'm sure the sour grape growers of Europe will be most pleased at your continued custom.
On the other hand, if you expect these shysters in the Tory party to launch a glorious post-Brexit mass house building program, then I think you'll be disappointed
The EU's bureaucracy has made it too hard for them to shift Farage or any Euro-sceptics out.
Personally the whole we need more houses is a flawed concept because it never comes with improved services. Unfortunately there is never enough money or consideration about schools, G.P services or roads when these mass schemes go ahead. In my area every village is to receive 400 homes, every town 2500 - 5000 homes yet no improvements to services. So far this is just a piece of paper, but already one program to double the size of a town has gone ahead. This originally came with a new purpose built school, but that was scrapped on cost....
I'd be very surprised if all those homes were not built without integral schools/doctors surgeries/dental practices and infrastructure. Your ire would be well directed at local planning panels than govt. policy is that was allowed to happen. From experience though Local Authorities are well practiced at getting such requirements rolled into developments but that would be a full planning stage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/02 12:08:28
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
What will you do if, on finally gaining the independence you seek, Scotland elects to rejoin the EU?
I shall respect the people's vote, as always.
Okay, allow me to rephrase that as the fact that you are a decent chap was never in question.
What I am interested in is how you would feel should that occur?
I only ask as you are in quite an interesting position as one of your main drivers in backing leaving the EU appears to be the hope that it would further the cause of Scottish independence. However, the majority of your electorate, and the main political party, are very much pro-EU so achieving independence could increase the odds of Scotland rejoining.
Which takes primacy for you? Would you happy with Scotland rejoining the EU if it is the price to pay for your independence from Westminster?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Well, for some people the war is over - we're out of the EU and I'm glad we're going down that road, me being a leave voter and all that.
None the less, the war is not over for me. I have another campaign to fight for: Scottish Independence.
The chains of Brussels have gone, but the shackles of Westminster still need to be thrown off.
What will you do if, on finally gaining the independence you seek, Scotland elects to rejoin the EU?
Campaign to get his town to become an independent country. And then his flat will become independent from it .
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Well, for some people the war is over - we're out of the EU and I'm glad we're going down that road, me being a leave voter and all that.
None the less, the war is not over for me. I have another campaign to fight for: Scottish Independence.
The chains of Brussels have gone, but the shackles of Westminster still need to be thrown off.
What will you do if, on finally gaining the independence you seek, Scotland elects to rejoin the EU?
Campaign to get his town to become an independent country. And then his flat will become independent from it .
Witty, but not at all fair on DINLT. You may not agree with his position but at least his rationale is clear.
Sentinel1 wrote: Of course those places that saw the golden light of EU membership will suffer, but it will give many other parts of the country a chance to catch up and improve. I unfortunately live in an area that has been hit by the worst effects of the EU, so things can only get better
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what the worst effects of the EU are and how they affected your local area. And who enjoyed the "golden light" and who didn't? How do you hope leaving the EU will redress the balance?
Cheers
Basically from my area it has caused numerous problems from total freedom of movement. Wage stagnation through flooding the market with easy to exploit unskilled workers. This trend puts off young people to work in their local area and move out causing a skills shortage. These people don't help solve the housing crisis and help burden the NHS and local schools. Now don't call me racist because I work with allot of them and they are good people. They do jobs none of us want to do e.g. vegetable cutting - and yes I have done that myself and I hated it. The problem is when the next wave come from a different country and don't get on with the first wave, its quite funny talking to immigrants who get annoyed with the next lot after their jobs! South Lincolnshire 80-90% Vote Leave, come visit and it doesn't take long to see why.
Who enjoyed the EU, well multinational liberal cities that dealt in finance and niche products for central European market. Other examples are available.
We must redress the balance in several ways:
1) Total limitation on unskilled Labour. We need skilled people. People who can speak English fluently, I can't stress enough how annoying it is to work with people who don't understand anything.
3) Amend EU policies that only suited certain countries e.g. common agricultural policy designed to subsidy the nations that were inefficient by putting tight controls on the UK. There are no doubt many more that reflect different areas of the UK.
4) Aggressive marketing and trade meetings with international buyers sellers outside of Europe etc.
5) Refusing to pay any money supposedly owed to the EU after Brexit is over, and under no circumstance pay to stay in the single market or abide to any leniencies in border controls.
6) Solving the Scottish problem once and for all, either they shut up or are out on their own.
As a joke, it was supposed to be funny, not accurate. My apologies to DINLT if people took it seriously rather than just comedy.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Sentinel1 wrote: Of course those places that saw the golden light of EU membership will suffer, but it will give many other parts of the country a chance to catch up and improve. I unfortunately live in an area that has been hit by the worst effects of the EU, so things can only get better
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what the worst effects of the EU are and how they affected your local area. And who enjoyed the "golden light" and who didn't? How do you hope leaving the EU will redress the balance?
Cheers
Sentinel1 wrote: Basically from my area it has caused numerous problems from total freedom of movement. Wage stagnation through flooding the market with easy to exploit unskilled workers. This trend puts off young people to work in their local area and move out causing a skills shortage. These people don't help solve the housing crisis and help burden the NHS and local schools. Now don't call me racist because I work with allot of them and they are good people. They do jobs none of us want to do e.g. vegetable cutting - and yes I have done that myself and I hated it. The problem is when the next wave come from a different country and don't get on with the first wave, its quite funny talking to immigrants who get annoyed with the next lot after their jobs! South Lincolnshire 80-90% Vote Leave, come visit and it doesn't take long to see why.
Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate you taking the time and effort.
I think that a lot of the problems you have identified are very similar to the ones experienced by my home town (in the Midlands) as well. I think the main difference we have is that I attribute their cause to poor governance here, in the UK, rather than to EU interference.
Wage stagnation in the face of a continually increasing cost of living, mostly driven by our ridiculous housing costs, are a real issue. Especially outside of metropolitan areas where employment opportunities are much more limited. But I would argue this should be attributed to the past 6 years of austerity and a lack of will at Westminster to institute serious measures to address the housing crisis.
I don't think you need worry about being called racist (unless, of course, you start saying racist things). I too have worked as a picker, it will easily remain the worst job I will ever have. Long hours, back breaking labour, awful conditions, an employer struggling on tiny margins, due to pressures from supermarkets who want to keep their prices as low as possible, using borderline illegal practices to get the greatest value from his staff. It was awful. And none of it was due to the fact that the workforce was 90% Polish.
The high employment rates among eastern Europeans in such jobs is a symptom of the issues facing the agricultural industry not the cause. There isn't a chance that the farm I worked at would be able to operate without them. And each one of those people were supporting the national economy by helping to keep a local enterprise in operation and paying income tax and national insurance. They also contributed locally everytime they spent their wages at the local shop, pub, or bookmaker.
Sentinel1 wrote: Who enjoyed the EU, well multinational liberal cities that dealt in finance and niche products for central European market. Other examples are available.
I could also argue that the rural communities also enjoyed the EU, through agricultural funding, redevelopment grants and the aforementioned supply of labour propping up otherwise unviable businesses.
1) Total limitation on unskilled Labour. We need skilled people. People who can speak English fluently, I can't stress enough how annoying it is to work with people who don't understand anything.
Every country needs a mix of skilled and unskilled migrants. See above. By leaving the EU we will likely just replace Poles with Punjabi, Bulgarians with Bangladeshis, etcetera.
We have also chosen not to exercise a lot of the options we had to control EU migration. Most other EU countries are much more strict than the UK.
Sentinel1 wrote: 3) Amend EU policies that only suited certain countries e.g. common agricultural policy designed to subsidy the nations that were inefficient by putting tight controls on the UK. There are no doubt many more that reflect different areas of the UK.
The Common Agricultural Policy is a mess but our agricultural industries are hugely reliant on the EU for subsidy and labour. I feel we would have been better pushing our government and MEPs to work towards reform. My fear now is that, outside of the EU we will see costs increase in local food production that the industry will no longer be able to avoid passing on to the customer. If there is one thing we have show in the past 20years is that we like our food cheap and I can see most people opting for the cheaper, foreign produced goods over British grown if given the choice.
Sentinel1 wrote: 4) Aggressive marketing and trade meetings with international buyers sellers outside of Europe etc.
We definitely need to work hard at securing as many new trade deals as possible but we will now be bargaining as a lone entity rather than as part of a much larger collective. Will this serve us well when dealing with the bigger economies of the world?
Sentinel1 wrote: 5) Refusing to pay any money supposedly owed to the EU after Brexit is over, and under no circumstance pay to stay in the single market or abide to any leniencies in border controls.
This would defeat any of the effort put into those trade deals. The EU is still our closest and largest trade partner. It would not look good to start any new relationship by defaulting on monies owed.
Sentinel1 wrote: 6) Solving the Scottish problem once and for all, either they shut up or are out on their own.
Hahaha. I don't even now where to start.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond. We may not agree but I found it to be very insightful. And I look forward to any rebuttals!
Basically from my area it has caused numerous problems from total freedom of movement.
Okay.
Wage stagnation through flooding the market with easy to exploit unskilled workers.
This is true and statistically supported.
This trend puts off young people to work in their local area and move out causing a skills shortage.
This I don't understand. Low wages in unskilled positions cause people to move away causing a skills shortage? If they had skills, competition for unskilled positions wouldn't affect them.
These people don't help solve the housing crisis
That's not really the job of immigrants.
and help burden the NHS and local schools.
I couldn't comment on school places, but I can't say I've heard of any great shortage of school places. I used to think the same thing as you with regards to the NHS (because it makes sense when you think about it), but then I did some homework and discovered that on average, NHS services do better when lots of immigrants are in the area. This is because immigrants are statistically less likely to claim healthcare and more likely to be of a young healthy working age. But because they live there, the population figures are higher, and so the government allocates more resources accordingly. So yes, I used to think the same thing as you, but it's actually wrong if you look into it.
1) Total limitation on unskilled Labour. We need skilled people. People who can speak English fluently, I can't stress enough how annoying it is to work with people who don't understand anything.
There's an alternative, which is giving British people better skills. Which has been occurring for the most part, the working class is a shadow of what it was thirty years ago, numerically speaking. Nobody really wants to be a toilet cleaner after all. I would agree that there should be a limit to unskilled labour migration per year, but it's not a massive factor going forward I don't think.
3) Amend EU policies that only suited certain countries e.g. common agricultural policy designed to subsidy the nations that were inefficient by putting tight controls on the UK. There are no doubt many more that reflect different areas of the UK.
Farming subsidy on its impact on Britain is a fairly intricate subject, and I wouldn't care to venture an opinion on whether or not it should be reformed post-EU.
4) Aggressive marketing and trade meetings with international buyers sellers outside of Europe etc.
We've always done that. Nation of shopkeepers and all.
5) Refusing to pay any money supposedly owed to the EU after Brexit is over, and under no circumstance pay to stay in the single market or abide to any leniencies in border controls.
This is unwise. If we can secure single market access without giving too much back, we'd be idiots not to take it, and if we can achieve it for a reasonable quid pro quo, it would benefit everyone.
6) Solving the Scottish problem once and for all, either they shut up or are out on their own.
What will you do if, on finally gaining the independence you seek, Scotland elects to rejoin the EU?
I shall respect the people's vote, as always.
Okay, allow me to rephrase that as the fact that you are a decent chap was never in question.
What I am interested in is how you would feel should that occur?
I only ask as you are in quite an interesting position as one of your main drivers in backing leaving the EU appears to be the hope that it would further the cause of Scottish independence. However, the majority of your electorate, and the main political party, are very much pro-EU so achieving independence could increase the odds of Scotland rejoining.
Which takes primacy for you? Would you happy with Scotland rejoining the EU if it is the price to pay for your independence from Westminster?
I've outlined my views on this many a time on this forum, but as a new user, you probably are unaware of them, so I don't mind repeating them.
Out of the EU, out of the UK, has been my position for a good while, now. Brussels is corrupt and good riddance to it, but Westminster is another cesspit I'd be glad to see the back of.
I would like to see an independent Scotland take the path of Iceland, Norway, or Switzerland.
Yes, the SNP are pro-EU, and many people in Scotland obviously voted to stay in the EU, but for me, that's not the problem.
Scotland's fate, becuase it is part of the UK, was decided by England. That's a crime against Scottish democracy in my book. It mattered not how we voted.
If England voted to stay, we stay, even if we're pro-Leave. We vote to stay in, and we're out, because England voted to leave.
It's not England's fault for being 85% of the UK, but it's a horrible imbalance that Westminster has no mind to fix. They don't care, so I want out.
If an indy Scotland votes to join the EU, I can accept that because it's the will of the Scottish people. I wouldn't like it, but I'm a democrat.
But I won't accept another nation making those calls for us, and yes, England is another nation, a great nation, which I'm a huge admirer of.
England, Northern Ireland, and Wales, will always be friends and allies to me, even with independence.
English, Northern Irish, and Welsh people are great, but not the idiots in Westminster.
6) Solving the Scottish problem once and for all, either they shut up or are out on their own.
"The Scottish Problem"
I'll give this poster the benifet of the doubt and assume they would probably want to re-word that differently.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/02/02 17:03:52
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
No need for that money. Liam Fox has assured us that the NHS won't be vulnerable to American health care companies.
That's good enough for me. I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing that
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Everything +Thanks again for taking the time to respond. We may not agree but I found it to be very insightful. And I look forward to any rebuttals!
First of all thank you for being so polite, I don't usually expect that. On to topic you have broken my argument down clearly and concisely. I will admit I am still getting used to quoting and got in a right mess multi quoting everything as you do, so I chose to shorten it down like the pragmatist I am. I will admit I have never thought of the view that immigrants pay into society, and I guess whilst they are here the money floats around here. None the less I still believe in reduced immigration, investment in services and that we must adapt to meet our future. I am still a hardliner for kicking the knees in of Juncker, Tusk and all the other spineless Eurocrat cronies! I would enjoy seeing what must/how would you change the UK to suit Brexit? Rebuttals! – Another word in my vocabulary (I had to look that up)
Everything + There's an alternative, which is giving British people better skills. Which has been occurring for the most part, the working class is a shadow of what it was thirty years ago, numerically speaking. Nobody really wants to be a toilet cleaner after all. I would agree that there should be a limit to unskilled labour migration per year, but it's not a massive factor going forward I don't think.
Again another concise structured reply from someone else, again I find it difficult to articulate my point further. However on this point I have mixed feelings. I do agree on people getting more skills, but they way you would have it is a 'them and us policy' where by all the working class jobs are from a continuous flow of migrants. I think going forward this will be a big factor. As you say no one would want to be a toilet cleaner but if that's all there is people should do it rather than rely on an import. You must also remember certain areas really haven't advanced much over the years, I for example cleaned my families 3 antiquated cesspits out with a fire pump yesterday. Yes I am off the grid sewage and gas but I am not a barbarian. I have electricity and what counts as broadband.
Now if I may address THE SCOTTISH ISSUE
Firstly I apologies for the way it came out. I don't want to be hammered for preaching a holocaust against the Scotts. I was referring to the S.N.P and Sturgeon. I believe she is detrimental to the UK and her party will be a thorn in the backside of Brexit process from start to finish. I do not want her lot ruining the deal and then having a second referendum bypassing any turds she made in the process. I believe in two options.
Option 1) As remaining in the UK they suck up to the deal and accept it like any other part of the UK.
Option 2) Unsatisfied, by all means have a second Referendum. Fail and accept option 1. Win and keep your nose out of the proceedings. From that point on expect no subsidies or benefits from the UK at all and start your own process of re-entering the EU which may contain having to accept the Euro and cutting public spending to accept the transitional shift. If Scotland want to go alone the UK should not prop them up in anyway.
I heartily recommend anyone who wants a complete picture of just how much of a nightmare Brexit is going to be to implement, and the pro's and cons of the various approaches, to watch this video linked:
https://www.facebook.com/aberystwyth.university/videos/10155078210390087/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED It is a lecture given by Syr Emyr Jones Parry, a retired diplomat who has sat both on the council of North Atlantic Representatives and the UN as a permanent representative of the UK. Having retired from such a high position, inevitably he has also had some input in the discussions in Westminster over Brexit as well. I also challenge everyone eager for Brexit to at the least re-evaluate your own opinions after listening to it. The lecture took place at 4pm today.
"As a customer, I'd really like to like GW, but they seem to hate me." - Ouze "All politicians are upperclass idiots"
Ketara wrote: I wasn't saying that everything was 'ok', merely pointing out the UK is actually still really quite important and a major player, globally speaking. Whether it will continue to be in the future, I really couldn't say (I wish I could!) Like you, I try and hope it'll all work out in the end (and historically speaking, I've noticed things tend to).
The reason I felt the need to contradict you is because one often hears (not necessarily talking about you here) from many demi-liberally inclined types a vague declaration along the lines of 'Oh! We're just a tiny island pretending we're still an Empire, when we're really no more important, relevant, or powerful than Norway/Sweden/other Nordic country.' It usually derives from some half read tripe by Correlli Barnett or Paul Kennedy which was of dubious sourcing to begin with, and is quite simply inaccurate and untrue by practically any relevant unit of measurement for this sort of thing.
Looking at position in the table isn't really reflective of the actual financial position though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal). When you look at it this way we really are quite tidly and insignificant on the world stage. We make up only 3% of the global GDP. Compare this to the US (25%), the EU excluding UK (19%), China (15%), Japan (6%). We are a tiny island on this scale, the whole country could disappear and it would likely just mean the global economy just flatlined for a year. No one is going to take any more notice than of the UK than any other non-EU country that also has a GDP of a similar level. (e.g. India) and we are likely to be rapidly overtaken by some of these. As an individual country we are irrelevant, it was only as being as part of a larger group did it result in greater strength. The EU will still have this (they are the second strongest power still after all, which is why Trump has a vested interested in demolishing it) but the UK will be considered a petty minded introverted country and treated as such.
I haven't read it all but I highly doubt it. However there is this written in the white paper:-
"The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that."
So basically Leaves arguments that we "are taking back control" has finally been shown to be fundamentally flawed. We always had that sovereignty and everyone that said otherwise was either brainwashed or being lied to. It effectively admits it was an emotional argument to persuade the gullible. Pity it has come out now.
Whirlwind wrote: ...As I've said before I will also make it a mission to buy everything from the EU...
I'm sure the sour grape growers of Europe will be most pleased at your continued custom.
I think you have it the wrong way round. It will be sweet and tasty wine from the gods from the EU, whereas from the UK it will be polluted, poisoned, chlorinated and cancerous foods for the masses (but hey that's what the government ants because it would like to minimise pension payouts).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/02 19:02:48
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
