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There's nothing in EU rules that prevents national governments from investing money in infrastructure projects.
There are rules about direct state aid for individual companies and industrial sectors, mirroring WTO rules that the UK still will be subject to after Brexit. Another example of misconceptions around the EU == Evil Bureaucracy point of view.
Kilkrazy wrote: There's nothing in EU rules that prevents national governments from investing money in infrastructure projects.
There are rules about direct state aid for individual companies and industrial sectors, mirroring WTO rules that the UK still will be subject to after Brexit. Another example of misconceptions around the EU == Evil Bureaucracy point of view.
For Engeland, the EU might be evil in some sense. But this is not true for parts of UK.
For Germany and the wealthly countries in central Europe, the EU is a blessing.
The English are more like the callers in walde. England may leave the EU, no tears, they were never really part of it.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Kilkrazy wrote: I agree. The UK could have fething RULED the EU, but we just dicked around uselessly for decades, doing a kind of low key hokey-cokey.
If only we hadn't sent boggle eyed time wasters to faff about stealing money rather than actually engaging in the political process we may have been a bit more positive and engaged about the process, Ho hum.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
As far as I am aware our jets don't go in Russian airspace, I believe when one of their Tupolev Bear Bombers or fighters gets in our airspace we should force the plane to land, process the crew and send them back to Russia. If they want they plane back send it back as a lump of scrap or else destroy it. That would send a message to the Russians alright!
That's not strictly true. There is an Open skies agreement that does allow NATO nations and Russia to fly over each others airspace and take pretty pictures.
[url]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Open_Skies[/url]
Co'tor Shas wrote:What, honestly, can Russia do to an independent Scotland without international response?
Crimea says hi
Crimea was surrounded by Russia.
Scotland is 5,500 KM from Russia according to google. Not to mention the narrow Baltic sea and all those other countries in the way.
Scotland has as much to fear from Russia as it does from Crabmen.
Crimea also has one of the few Mediterranean accessible military naval bases with agreement with Ukraine. Russia invaded in all likelihood because a pro-EU state (and one that would probably like to join NATO) would not likely allow them to maintain that military presence for too long. It's the same reason they have an interest in Syria. If it became pro-EU/US then that base is likely to end up in jeopardy (and being one of the few bases not ice-locked in the winter). Scotland doesn't have any of these (that we know of anyway) so its unlikely to really interest Russia.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/06 19:39:36
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
As far as I am aware our jets don't go in Russian airspace, I believe when one of their Tupolev Bear Bombers or fighters gets in our airspace we should force the plane to land, process the crew and send them back to Russia. If they want they plane back send it back as a lump of scrap or else destroy it. That would send a message to the Russians alright!
That's not strictly true. There is an Open skies agreement that does allow NATO nations and Russia to fly over each others airspace and take pretty pictures.
[url]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Open_Skies[/url]
I didn't know such a thing existed, never the less, I don't think we send bombers into Russian airspace whether to take pictures or just be a nuisance.
Sentinel1 wrote: That would free up more trades peoples to work on more projects without huge costs.
So turn unskilled labour into skilled labour by wishing really, really hard?
I think it would be a benefit if we could train more unskilled people into trades or skill sets to do manual work on important infrastructure projects. What is wrong with suggesting Prison Labour gangs should replace them in unskilled work? I don't think its wishful thinking, its being efficient with the burden of a lazy prison system.
We need a drive to invest in ourselves and be self-sufficient, that is where the finance economy has made us go wrong. Just look at the imploding Vauxhall debacle! If we produced more parts rather than imported them Peugeot would probably give a damn about the factories here. Its plainly obvious that they will cease production once GMs committed contracts run out because it is cheaper to build them without having to import parts inside Europe, probably in France knowing the French. Of course this is prime Brexit-is-a-killer material. I agree certain aspects of this country is going to the dogs.
If you want to be self sufficient then you realise that you would have to give up the mobile phone, the internet, cars, holidays abroad on planes/rail/ships. Hell you'd probably also have to give up the wargaming market. We are also only produce 50% of our food requirements so a mass starvation event would also be required. The reason we aren't self sufficient is because there are not the resources to do it. We'd have to go back, probably, a thousand years or so to be self sufficient. The reason hadrians wall was built easily by the romans in because the one thing the Uk does have is high quality aggregate. It does not good access to rare earth metals, gold, platinum to make most of todays technology work. Coal is still plentiful but that would lead to the smogs of yester year.
The Vauxhall issue is something that those wanting to remain warned about. Leaving the EU creates uncertainty and that is something businesses don't like. If May had come out and said we want to stay in the customs union and we'll have free movement as the price then there would less incentive to move. However at the moment they have the situation where to keep up with other manufacturers they need to invest. They could do that in the UK but what happens if there are trade barriers for their cars. That suddenly costs the investment massively. Whereas if they move to France they do not have that uncertainty and can invest safely knowing it won't be wasted on duties or paperwork. If you were buying a house and out of two one had a possibility of subsidence which the government may sort out in a few years, but aren't guaranteeing anything how likely are you to buy the one not at risk if all other things (like cost) were equal?
As far as I am aware our jets don't go in Russian airspace, I believe when one of their Tupolev Bear Bombers or fighters gets in our airspace we should force the plane to land, process the crew and send them back to Russia. If they want they plane back send it back as a lump of scrap or else destroy it. That would send a message to the Russians alright!
That's not strictly true. There is an Open skies agreement that does allow NATO nations and Russia to fly over each others airspace and take pretty pictures.
[url]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Open_Skies[/url]
I didn't know such a thing existed, never the less, I don't think we send bombers into Russian airspace whether to take pictures or just be a nuisance.
From 30,000ft I'm not sure anyone really can tell the difference.
This is one of the new RAF observation aircraft. The payload is roughly 70% of the Russian bomber so not far off in payload capacity.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/06 20:17:13
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
I just don't like seeing another industry go down the drain any further. Peugeot may surprise us with some investment but I think the writing is on the wall for Vauxhall in the UK. As I see it, its Peugeots fault, they didn't need to buy out the GM side, and what its still 17% or so funded by the French Government because it is still recovering from its own mess. Greed is why it has happened and they know cut backs will have to be made to rationalise the bigger conglomerate. The factories in the UK are an easy closure and pretty much any business can get away with murder and blame it on Brexit with or without factual evidence. No doubt Peugeot will beg from a government bribe like Nissan to secure the production, however unlike Nissan who have just previously had big investments in UK production the new Peugeot group will have no investment and no reason to keep it going. No doubt Vauxhall will just be an imported badge engineered Opel if the Brand keeps going. Peugeot Group may have its eyes on destroying another British car brand. They want Malaysian company Proton which is in dire straights. Proton own Lotus, but Peugoet has no interest in it. Last rumour I heard was that the Chinese Government, specifically their Geely Corporation was looking to buy the brand to stick the name on Chinese cars. If Peugeot buys Proton you can bet your money Lotus is closed down and intelluctaul property sold. Another great shame if that happens...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/06 20:25:23
People are talking about regulations and planning and this and that as obstacles to the grand building projects that this nation badly needs IMO,
but people are forgetting the political capital to made from major infrastructure projects.
It doesn't matter if you're in Aberdeen, Aldershot, Canterbury or High Wycombe.
If you see roads getting built, schools, hospitals, train stations etc etc
There is the evidence before you that something is being done. The government can point to that train station and say we built this for you, with YOUR tax money.
I've made my grand vision for this nation on these pages and I am convinced, it's the path we need to walk in the 21st century.
Give me 1 trillion pounds and a Commons majority of 300 and
in 10 years time, the EU will be begging us to come back.
in 25 years, the Americans will beg us to take them back
and in 40 years time, British colony ships will be heading for Mars - the final frontier.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: People are talking about regulations and planning and this and that as obstacles to the grand building projects that this nation badly needs IMO,
and in 40 years time, British colony ships will be heading for Mars - the final frontier.
We need some suitable music something inspiringly good about the future (for a change) like Star Trek the next Generation! Lets wheel out an augmented Sir Patrick Stewart-Picard!
'Space the final frontier, this is the voyages of the star ship Britannia. To seek out and colonise new worlds where no foreign national has claimed before. To seek out and exploit fresh mineral deposits before new life forms find them first! And such and Such!'
Fair enough, I get carried away from time to time.
BUT...
Look at our rivals: the USA, the EU, India, China, Brazil etc etc
and the problems of climate change, automation etc etc
It's sink or swim time for us.
We can carry on as usual and watch as the country slides into a long spiral of managed decline
or be bold, and have a serious, and I mean serious crack at building a better nation for the 21st century.
China may produce 100,000 engineers a year, and Britain only 1000.
We'll never match the quantity, but if our 1000 engineers exceed them in quality, then we'll have a chance.
That's the challenge. To produce quality, to find that niche...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Look at our rivals: the USA, the EU, India, China, Brazil etc etc
and the problems of climate change, automation etc etc
It's sink or swim time for us.
We can carry on as usual and watch as the country slides into a long spiral of managed decline
or be bold, and have a serious, and I mean serious crack at building a better nation for the 21st century.
China may produce 100,000 engineers a year, and Britain only 1000.
We'll never match the quantity, but if our 1000 engineers exceed them in quality, then we'll have a chance.
That's the challenge. To produce quality, to find that niche...
I agree we must get more home grown skilled engineers, the industry is crying out for them, but we need to give them the projects and the incentive to stay in the UK rather than export themselves abroad. The problem is working overseas is just that much better. I have a relative who is a civil engineer in waterworks and the prospects overseas are just much better than what can be offered in the UK. We need to offer the incentive to stay or at least make those companies invest in infrastructure projects at home. Of course we don't have the space or the enforcement policies of the Chinese where whole valleys and its populace are flattened to be built over but we have so much that needs improving or starting over again. As has been previously mentioned by Whirlwind we have the aggregate to do it.
If I remember right from one of my mates in Air Traffic Control, one of the big things, aside from international posturing and all that sorta stuff of the Russian encroachment into airspace is they don't exactly file flight plans....
So it is legitimately dangerous to not just air cargo and delays, but people and holiday makers too.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: People are talking about regulations and planning and this and that as obstacles to the grand building projects that this nation badly needs IMO,
but people are forgetting the political capital to made from major infrastructure projects.
It doesn't matter if you're in Aberdeen, Aldershot, Canterbury or High Wycombe.
If you see roads getting built, schools, hospitals, train stations etc etc
There is the evidence before you that something is being done. The government can point to that train station and say we built this for you, with YOUR tax money.
I've made my grand vision for this nation on these pages and I am convinced, it's the path we need to walk in the 21st century.
Give me 1 trillion pounds and a Commons majority of 300 and
in 10 years time, the EU will be begging us to come back.
in 25 years, the Americans will beg us to take them back
and in 40 years time, British colony ships will be heading for Mars - the final frontier.
You do realize that you could just have replaced your entire post with "If we had more money, we'd be better off!", yes?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
In response to an earlier post - no it's not a question of having more money.
The fundamental problem in British politics is the lack of a plan.
Britain was bankrupt after WW2, but Labour won a landslide in 1945 because they had this wonderful vision of a welfare state. They knew who they were and what they wanted and they put it into action.
Alas, these days, our leaders are spivs, SPADs or misfits out of their depth. Power for its own sake, no idea what to do when they get it.
David Cameron was a two bit PR man who was propelled to high office.
I'm convinced that Ed Miliband originally wanted the job of Chief Archivist of the Labour party, but was pushed against his will into running for Labour leader.
Tony Blair really wanted to be Mick Jagger,
and Theresa May has all the appeal, the demeanour of somebody who'd rather be running a branch of RBS somewhere in Wiltshire or something...
They stand for nothing, they believe in nothing, they represent nothing and their ultimate plans equal nothing...
And that is the tragedy for this nation. Our future is in the hands of people who know not what they want...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Not only this, but they seem to allow far right hate speech more often than not, but clamp down on anti-fascist groups.
Police should be following up all these groups and Facebook supplying their details. Advertising child porn is supposed to be an underground thing not something carried out openly on the biggest of social media sites, clearly not enough is being done to remove users.
According to that article, when images weren't taken down and the BBC journalist send them directly to Facebook, they reported the journalist to the police. Odd sense of priorities.
So many political plans are half arsed. The main example that springs to mind happens to be a Tory one, but that's not say it's only Tory plans that are horrifically flawed.
Workfare.
In theory, a way to get yoof and the long term unemployed a taste of work.
Right there, that's not a bad plan.
But the 'work for free or lose your benefits' angle was rubbish, and far too near indentured servitude.
Imagine if the deal had been 'your employer will pay you the going rate, less your benefit which we'll continue to pay'. Give that say, a two or three month period.
Employer gets some discount work done. Benefit Claimant earns more money, giving them at least the faintest whiff of how much better life can be with even a crappy arsed job. Hopefully, they find having way more money to their liking, and there's a chance the employer will offer them a proper contract.
But no. Instead, people just find out dead end, minimum wage work sucks - likely putting them off it forever more.
A reasonable concept utterly blown.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: In response to an earlier post - no it's not a question of having more money.
The fundamental problem in British politics is the lack of a plan.
Britain was bankrupt after WW2, but Labour won a landslide in 1945 because they had this wonderful vision of a welfare state. They knew who they were and what they wanted and they put it into action.
...and then had a boatload of money flowing in from the Marshal Plan so that the US would have a market to sell to.
If the fundamental issue isn't money but vision, why did you start out with "GIve me a trillion £..."?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: In response to an earlier post - no it's not a question of having more money.
The fundamental problem in British politics is the lack of a plan.
Britain was bankrupt after WW2, but Labour won a landslide in 1945 because they had this wonderful vision of a welfare state. They knew who they were and what they wanted and they put it into action.
...and then had a boatload of money flowing in from the Marshal Plan so that the US would have a market to sell to.
If the fundamental issue isn't money but vision, why did you start out with "GIve me a trillion £..."?
Money is needed, don't get me wrong, but the vision, the plan, is the most important factor.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
But no. Instead, people just find out dead end, minimum wage work sucks - likely putting them off it forever more.
A reasonable concept utterly blown.
Worse, people were laid off from dead end minimum wage jobs and then re-hired under the workfare scheme to do the job they were doing before, for less money. I think Poundland was the big one guilty of it.
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
