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Co'tor Shas wrote: Maybe a stupid question, but you guys have your next election in 2020. I get the plan is to leave in two years (so 2019-2020). But what would happen if it (inevitably) takes longer and an anti-brexit government comes to power? Could they sabotage it? What would the effects of that be?
Logically, Article 50 has to be irreversible, otherwise, every EU member would use the threat of it to shake down more concessions from the other members.
If no deal is struck, we leave on WTO trade terms.
The chances of a anti-Brexit government being elected are extremely remote, as the opposition parties in Britain make Trump look like FDR
EU officials already said that the Brexit should be deterrent to potential followers.
So basically making it so difficult that nobody is allowed to leave? If your club is that great why do you need to treat your member states like enemies?
This sounds great in the mind of a EU-rophile...
Deterrent as in we'll make sure the UK bears the full cost of Brexit so prospective leavers know the real cost of leaving.
So no sweetheart deals or special relationships.
>This is the bitter face of our EU "partners"
Glad we're leaving. I'm sure France and Germany will grow tired of supporting countries like Spain soon enough.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Maybe a stupid question, but you guys have your next election in 2020. I get the plan is to leave in two years (so 2019-2020). But what would happen if it (inevitably) takes longer and an anti-brexit government comes to power? Could they sabotage it? What would the effects of that be?
Logically, Article 50 has to be irreversible, otherwise, every EU member would use the threat of it to shake down more concessions from the other members.
If no deal is struck, we leave on WTO trade terms.
The chances of a anti-Brexit government being elected are extremely remote, as the opposition parties in Britain make Trump look like FDR
EU officials already said that the Brexit should be deterrent to potential followers.
So basically making it so difficult that nobody is allowed to leave? If your club is that great why do you need to treat your member states like enemies?
This sounds great in the mind of a EU-rophile...
Deterrent as in we'll make sure the UK bears the full cost of Brexit so prospective leavers know the real cost of leaving.
So no sweetheart deals or special relationships.
>This is the bitter face of our EU "partners"
Glad we're leaving. I'm sure France and Germany will grow tired of supporting countries like Spain soon enough.
The UK is the one choosing to leave of its own accord, that it should bear the costs of its unilateral decision should not be controversial.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/29 15:59:44
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Maybe a stupid question, but you guys have your next election in 2020. I get the plan is to leave in two years (so 2019-2020). But what would happen if it (inevitably) takes longer and an anti-brexit government comes to power? Could they sabotage it? What would the effects of that be?
Logically, Article 50 has to be irreversible, otherwise, every EU member would use the threat of it to shake down more concessions from the other members.
If no deal is struck, we leave on WTO trade terms.
The chances of a anti-Brexit government being elected are extremely remote, as the opposition parties in Britain make Trump look like FDR
EU officials already said that the Brexit should be deterrent to potential followers.
So basically making it so difficult that nobody is allowed to leave? If your club is that great why do you need to treat your member states like enemies?
This sounds great in the mind of a EU-rophile...
Deterrent as in we'll make sure the UK bears the full cost of Brexit so prospective leavers know the real cost of leaving.
So no sweetheart deals or special relationships.
>This is the bitter face of our EU "partners"
Glad we're leaving. I'm sure France and Germany will grow tired of supporting countries like Spain soon enough.
The UK is the one choosing to leave of its own accord, that it should bear the costs of its unilateral decision should not be controversial.
I have no problem with Britain having to pay a bill to leave. We have a duty to honour our treaty obligations and should pay whatever amount is owed.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Co'tor Shas wrote: Maybe a stupid question, but you guys have your next election in 2020. I get the plan is to leave in two years (so 2019-2020). But what would happen if it (inevitably) takes longer and an anti-brexit government comes to power? Could they sabotage it? What would the effects of that be?
Logically, Article 50 has to be irreversible, otherwise, every EU member would use the threat of it to shake down more concessions from the other members.
If no deal is struck, we leave on WTO trade terms.
The chances of a anti-Brexit government being elected are extremely remote, as the opposition parties in Britain make Trump look like FDR
EU officials already said that the Brexit should be deterrent to potential followers.
So basically making it so difficult that nobody is allowed to leave? If your club is that great why do you need to treat your member states like enemies?
This sounds great in the mind of a EU-rophile...
Deterrent as in we'll make sure the UK bears the full cost of Brexit so prospective leavers know the real cost of leaving.
So no sweetheart deals or special relationships.
>This is the bitter face of our EU "partners"
Glad we're leaving. I'm sure France and Germany will grow tired of supporting countries like Spain soon enough.
The UK is the one choosing to leave of its own accord, that it should bear the costs of its unilateral decision should not be controversial.
I have no problem with Britain having to pay a bill to leave. We have a duty to honour our treaty obligations and should pay whatever amount is owed.
Andy Coulson hired as Telegraph PR adviser
Journalists said to be shocked as ex-News of the World editor jailed over phone hacking gets job to promote truthfulness of papers
Andy Coulson, the former editor of the News of the World who was jailed following the phone-hacking scandal, has been hired to do PR for the Telegraph Media Group (TMG).
His public relations firm, Coulson Chappell, has been awarded a contract to improve the standing of the company’s publications, the Daily and Sunday Telegraph. His main brief is thought to be to promote the papers as truthful and authoritative.
The appointment was overseen by TMG’s chief executive, Murdoch MacLennan, who is regarded as one of Coulson’s most loyal friends. He gave evidence on Coulson’s behalf at his trial.
MacLennan confirmed the appointment, saying: “We have a good working relationship with Andy, who has written for us a couple of times. We feel his company will add value to the business.”
Journalists working for the Daily Telegraph were said to be shocked and saddened by the decision to recruit such a controversial figure. One said: “This cannot do anything but harm to our brand. It will deliver a severe blow to the credibility of our journalism.”
Coulson, who was sentenced to 18 months in jail for conspiracy to intercept voicemails, was twice spotted recently at the Telegraph’s offices in Victoria, central London. For Coulson, the contract marks a significant step on the road back from the dark days of his imprisonment.
Convicted Murdoch phone hacker hired as PR adviser for Telegraph...
2017 gets better and better !
the is going on ?!
..still least that's the daftest thing we'll read toda
... not a good sign when the Germans are laughing at us -- with our own humour too !
On the plus side if someone told you 10 years ago you'd like James Blunt as person more than Morrissey & John Lydon you'd have laughed in their face.
ain't life funny ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
So basically making it so difficult that nobody is allowed to leave? If your club is that great why do you need to treat your member states like enemies?
This sounds great in the mind of a EU-rophile...
This is just a ridiculous sentiment with some thought. If you drive a car with RAC breakdown cover then you get the benefits of having that breakdown cover. If you decide to Leave because of "taking back control" your recovery of the vehicle or saving the £35 per week bill then that's your decision. It seems like some people still expect the RAC to come out an rescue the car when they breakdown, run out of fuel, get a flat type or otherwise decide to drive the car off the side of the cliff (highly likely) whilst screaming "its not fair its all RACs fault for not giving the same level of service as those still in the club" as the flaming car hurtles to the bottom of the very deep (and painful bottom).
The only thing the Dis-UK is doing by leaving is putting up a big sign saying "We're with Stoopid" for the rest of the world to look at and laugh at (except Trump who lives in some weird fascism land anyway). The DUK is likely to be more a kin to Dr Zoidberg from Futurama, looked at with disdain, laughter and a fair bit of pity.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
I rather amused at the passion aroused by the roughly one quarter of one percent of UK GDP that net UK contributions to the EU comprised in order to both operate in and have a major voice in political and economic matters of the largest market on the planet.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Looks like we need to find some more collectibles to unlock our last character in the negotiations.
IIRC he can throw fireballs and has an attack with an 80% chance of a stun result.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Several interviews in Sunderland, the fastest-growing digital economic area in the UK for the past few years.
3:2 vote for Leave.
Digital economy starting to collapse because of Brexit.
Scottish Leavers saying they voted Leave because the UK doesn't need several tiers of government. They didn't vote for the EU Parliament (only the Westminster and Scottish Parliaments, etc...)
For my family's sake I hope it doesn't all go south as quickly as it seems to be doing, but at least I will have the compensation of schadenfreude (foreign language term soon to be outlawed for "sovereignty".)
Several interviews in Sunderland, the fastest-growing digital economic area in the UK for the past few years.
3:2 vote for Leave.
Digital economy starting to collapse because of Brexit.
Scottish Leavers saying they voted Leave because the UK doesn't need several tiers of government. They didn't vote for the EU Parliament (only the Westminster and Scottish Parliaments, etc...)
For my family's sake I hope it doesn't all go south as quickly as it seems to be doing, but at least I will have the compensation of schadenfreude (foreign language term soon to be outlawed for "sovereignty".)
To be fair for once Boris the Clown was right. It really is going to be a 'Titanic success'....
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
I really hope they take a second look at that bill. I don't want to give away more money to an organisation that probably won't survive the decade. And I think they've gotten enough money out of us over the years away.
Vaktathi wrote: I rather amused at the passion aroused by the roughly one quarter of one percent of UK GDP that net UK contributions to the EU comprised in order to both operate in and have a major voice in political and economic matters of the largest market on the planet.
Because the passion came from decades of lies and spin by a right wing media determined to do whatever it takes to foist their world view on the nation, and people fell for it, and here we are.
At the next GE, if we're still in the country, I'm voting Lib dem, and I dont give a monkeys if it turns out that Tim Farron spends his weekends skinning kittens, and setting fire to orphanages.
Basically, even though our local Tory MP is a nice, charming, hard working, ethical young man, I wouldn't vote for the conservatives again if someone held a gun to my head.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
The EU should not considered to be a colony from the UK point of view.
You give something you get something.
Think about the 800,000 polish people working in the UK. They have jobs Englishmen usually dont take.
Think about the car industry in UK. More than 60% of the parts come from the EU outside of UK. And the UK has no industry for making those parts.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
So I woke up this morning and the sky was still there. I was surprised given the panic you fellers seem to live with and promote.
Also divorce bill; the UK will take a proportional share of the treasury/assest too one assumes, this should off set what is a relatively small sum if it is agreed as valid.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
I doubt there will be a large lump sum payment by the UK to settle obligations. That's too politically sensitive for the Tories. Probably the UK government will agree take over pensions for retired British staff of EU institutions and take over finance for current investments from EU funds in UK infrastructure.
notprop wrote: So I woke up this morning and the sky was still there. I was surprised given the panic you fellers seem to live with and promote. ...
Remain never claimed the sky would fall, however they did claim there would be serious financial repurcussions, and they're in the post.
It's also not "Panic" to have serious misgivings about monumental constitutional change. Only the arrogant, rich, or monumentally ignorant should not be watching events with cautious concern.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/30 07:49:19
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Yeah we'll most likely agree to pay our commitments as they happen, so we'll be dripping money into the EU for decades, on top of whatever we're paying in to help run it. It'll be easier to hide £2bn/year forever than a £60bn lump sum.
It is interesting, but not surprising. The generation that fought in the second world war, created the NHS and dragged Britain out of the mire by its bootstraps and created a Great Britain for their children, voted to join Europe for peace and prosperity.
Their children, the baby boomers, the most "selfish fethed up brats they spawned to replace themselves" ( Welsh, 1993) have sucked the teat dry of every advantage and spent the last 40 years trying to sabotage, through their own wilful ignorance and greed, everything their parents created.
feth them. When they're gone, we'll still be paying for their legacy, as will their grandchildren. Article 50 is just the latest thing that they've done to feth over the country to suit themselves.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Lloyd's of London says it will establish a new European subsidiary in Brussels to avoid losing business when the UK leaves the EU.
The 329-year-old insurance market confirmed the plan as it released its latest annual results.
"A subsidiary office will be opened in Brussels with the intention that it will be operational for the January 1 renewal season in 2019," it said.
The company's continental business generates 11% of its premiums.
Lloyd's of London's chief executive Inga Beale told the BBC's Today programme Brussels had certain key attractions: "What we were after was some jurisdiction that had a really robust reputation for regulation, we also wanted to be able to access talent and we wanted really good accessibility.
"Brussels came out top of our list."
However, she stressed that the Brussels office was an additional base, simply an EU subsidiary, and that the number of jobs affected was less than 100.
The company has around 700 London employees, but the market it runs involves more than 30,000.
Other financial institutions have also said they are thinking of moving some business within Europe.
'Challenging' conditions
Several investment banks, including Bank of America, Barclays, and Morgan Stanley are considering relocating staff to Dublin. Frankfurt, Madrid and Amsterdam are also likely to benefit. HSBC is expected to move significant numbers of employees to Paris.
Lloyd's of London also announced it had made a profit of £2.1bn in 2016, the same as for the year before.
It said conditions over the course of the year had been "extremely challenging". There were £2.1bn of major claims - the fifth highest since the turn of the century - which was due mainly to Hurricane Matthew and the Fort McMurray Wildfire in Canada.
However, the company added that its results had been helped by "significantly improved" investment returns.
Lloyd's, one of Britain's oldest institutions, is the world's leading insurance and reinsurance market.
It focuses on specialist markets, such as marine, energy and political risk, but also branches out into more unusual areas, such as insuring comedian Ken Dodd's teeth.
...don't waste much time do they eh ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Well, the financial institutions only do their job.
The situation will get worse if there is no trade deal between UK and EU within two years.
Then the UK drops off and they will trade according the WTO rules. If you ever looked at these rules, they are really bad. Tariff will be almost everywhere.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Well, for the next two years, everything is up in the air. Whilst the talks are happening, the rest of the nation sits with its thumbs up our rears, and then in two years time, the deal will probably be shot to pieces by Tory backbenchers anyway!
Lloyd's of London says it will establish a new European subsidiary in Brussels to avoid losing business when the UK leaves the EU.
The 329-year-old insurance market confirmed the plan as it released its latest annual results.
"A subsidiary office will be opened in Brussels with the intention that it will be operational for the January 1 renewal season in 2019," it said.
The company's continental business generates 11% of its premiums.
Lloyd's of London's chief executive Inga Beale told the BBC's Today programme Brussels had certain key attractions: "What we were after was some jurisdiction that had a really robust reputation for regulation, we also wanted to be able to access talent and we wanted really good accessibility.
"Brussels came out top of our list."
However, she stressed that the Brussels office was an additional base, simply an EU subsidiary, and that the number of jobs affected was less than 100.
The company has around 700 London employees, but the market it runs involves more than 30,000.
Other financial institutions have also said they are thinking of moving some business within Europe.
'Challenging' conditions
Several investment banks, including Bank of America, Barclays, and Morgan Stanley are considering relocating staff to Dublin. Frankfurt, Madrid and Amsterdam are also likely to benefit. HSBC is expected to move significant numbers of employees to Paris.
Lloyd's of London also announced it had made a profit of £2.1bn in 2016, the same as for the year before.
It said conditions over the course of the year had been "extremely challenging". There were £2.1bn of major claims - the fifth highest since the turn of the century - which was due mainly to Hurricane Matthew and the Fort McMurray Wildfire in Canada.
However, the company added that its results had been helped by "significantly improved" investment returns.
Lloyd's, one of Britain's oldest institutions, is the world's leading insurance and reinsurance market.
It focuses on specialist markets, such as marine, energy and political risk, but also branches out into more unusual areas, such as insuring comedian Ken Dodd's teeth.
...don't waste much time do they eh ?
Money never sleeps.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
notprop wrote: So I woke up this morning and the sky was still there. I was surprised given the panic you fellers seem to live with and promote.
Also divorce bill; the UK will take a proportional share of the treasury/assest too one assumes, this should off set what is a relatively small sum if it is agreed as valid.
It's easy for you to say that, sitting in your ivory tower in the USA. We've got to live with it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Future War Cultist wrote: I really hope they take a second look at that bill. I don't want to give away more money to an organisation that probably won't survive the decade. And I think they've gotten enough money out of us over the years away.
I don't like handing anymore money to the EU either, but we signed the treaties in good faith, and national honour dictates that we honour those treaty obligations.
Our reputation would go down the pan if we started reneging on debts.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/30 09:36:25
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
To be fair they've (and the other trading banks) been threatening to do so since the referendum was announced. This should hardly be a surprise that they'll move operations in order to maintain 11% of their revenue (and ~£321m annual profit if it's linear). That's money we knew we'd lose.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/30 10:37:08
May's letter to the EU contained a blatant threat saying that when the UK will not get a good trade deal, the UK will not support the EU in terms of security issues (since UK has a good security service).
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
wuestenfux wrote: May's letter to the EU contained a blatant threat saying that when the UK will not get a good trade deal, the UK will not support the EU in terms of security issues (since UK has a good security service).
Surely that is the sort of thing you only pull out in the critical point of the negotiations right in their most heated, not as an opening salvo of "feth you guys".
ChargerIIC wrote: If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
