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 Darkjim wrote:

I feel the opposite way at the moment - the only way the world is going to see what these people are capable of when given power, is to give them power, let the nationalism flow, and in 20 years, if anyone is left, restart the cycle. Sadly we seem completely incapable of looking back to the last time the flag wavers held sway. We are a very, very stupid race.

Except in the worst case scenario the nationalists get hold of power and then entrench it and either condemn or out right ban liberalism or speech that doesn't conform. In the past we did not have the technology to really mess things up, but now we do - even if thins don't end in a calamitous war we may find that the environment has so been crewed over that it will have a long term negative impact on the human race. For example if nationalism takes off and fossil fuels are used more and more extensively (like Trump wants) again then the oceans will rise significantly, the centre of continents will heat up more and become more barren and we will be exposed to more extreme weather. That will place more pressures on governments as resources like food and fresh water dwindle, migration increases and for anyone that has studied the interactions of animals, lack of resources inevitably leads to conflict and humans are still animals (just ones that know how to kill each other quicker) .

In such a case the 'Star Trek scenario' might be the best we can hope but there are a lot of other options.

DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES AND DARTH MAY!

 Whirlwind wrote:


DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES AND DARTH MAY!

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Darkjim wrote:

I feel the opposite way at the moment - the only way the world is going to see what these people are capable of when given power, is to give them power, let the nationalism flow, and in 20 years, if anyone is left, restart the cycle. Sadly we seem completely incapable of looking back to the last time the flag wavers held sway. We are a very, very stupid race.

Except in the worst case scenario the nationalists get hold of power and then entrench it and either condemn or out right ban liberalism or speech that doesn't conform. In the past we did not have the technology to really mess things up, but now we do - even if thins don't end in a calamitous war we may find that the environment has so been crewed over that it will have a long term negative impact on the human race. For example if nationalism takes off and fossil fuels are used more and more extensively (like Trump wants) again then the oceans will rise significantly, the centre of continents will heat up more and become more barren and we will be exposed to more extreme weather. That will place more pressures on governments as resources like food and fresh water dwindle, migration increases and for anyone that has studied the interactions of animals, lack of resources inevitably leads to conflict and humans are still animals (just ones that know how to kill each other quicker) .

In such a case the 'Star Trek scenario' might be the best we can hope but there are a lot of other options.

DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES AND DARTH MAY!

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:


DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES AND DARTH MAY!

Are you going to post this every day for the next 7 weeks?

I understand why people are probably bored at me for banging this drum, and you're probably rolling your eyes again already

but it should be crystal clear to everybody that once again, the Conservative party has put THEIR interests before the nation.

It is clear to anybody that the hard Brexit cabal, the flat earthers sitting on the backbenches, who want no deal with the EU, and want to crash out on WTO terms, are causing trouble for another Tory leader, and May, mindful of what happened to Major and Cameron, feels she needs a bigger majority to put these backbenchers in their place.

I swear to God, for as long as I've been on God's Earth, the trouble these have caused, and the damage they have done to this nation cannot be measured...

And Corbyn? The quicker this clueless wretch is swept away the better for the country.

He's just ruled out a deal with the SNP.

That worked well for Ed Miliband, didn't it?

We're caught between a geography teacher out of his depth, and a cabal of scheming Tory backbenchers who are ruthless and know exactly what they want for the UK...

God help us




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 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm still worried about the fate of Scotland. It would break my heart to see them leave the uk. Never take anything for granted.

At least labour are going to take a beating in this election. It's the least they deserve. I hate the Torres but I loathe Labour.

Sorry to say this, but I will vote and campaign for, the SNP.

We have a large activist base, a popular leader, we're hovering at nearly 50% of the vote, the money is there for the election, and the opposition is all over the place.

If we get at least 50 seats again, then indy ref 2 is on.

"Petty nationalists to the left of me, self-righteous pseudo-liberals to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.....And I'm wonderin' what it is I should do..."

Drink heavily.

 Ketara wrote:
"Petty nationalists to the left of me, self-righteous pseudo-liberals to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.....And I'm wonderin' what it is I should do..."

I can sympathise with people like yourself who might be fed up with politics and might be experiencing voter fatigue. If anything, I'm the one who should be suffering voter fatigue.

In the last 5 years, I've probably voted in more elections and referendums than nearly every other dakka member.

But I like politics, so I'm loving this.

I will happily make the short trip to the polling booth on May 4th for the council elections and again a few weeks later in June 8th.

On a serious note, you and other English, Welsh, and NI dakka members have my sympathy - because I know a lot of people in the rest of the UK are struggling to decide who to vote for. especially if you're pro-EU.

I know that not everybody here supports indy Scotland. Fair enough, but I least I know the cause I support, the party I support is united and heading in the same direction, and I have no decisions to make on who to vote for.

I suspect a lot of people in the rest of the UK wish they had that clarity for June 8th.




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 MrDwhitey wrote:
Drink heavily.

We might have to start on June 9th.

Get this dread feeling that even if Labour only win 50 seats, Corbyn will try and hang on as leader

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


He's just ruled out a deal with the SNP.

Which is nuts, because that's an easy 55+ seats who'll side with anything that's not Tory, and as far as I can tell about the only route to get them out.

@ DINLT

I don't begrudge you for going SNP. If you leave though you will be missed.

Northern Ireland's not out of the woodwork either. One consolation if we leave will be getting to watch all the scrounging low lives around here trying to cope without the NHS, housing executive, DLA etc.

 Darkjim wrote:


I absolutely agree, it's why I said 'if anyone is left'. Even the 'Star Trek' scenario relies on lessons actually being learned, at some point. But the right have now clearly identified that the people they have been exploiting to make themselves rich are now so poorly informed that they can be led to just about any opinion with a flag waved in front of them.

I will, for my part, be voting for my current MP, Tim Farron. But just to take him as an example, the OUTRAGE in the papers yesterday at his stance on homosexuality (not least in one paper that recently attacked a judge for being 'openly gay', I won't bother naming it), is exactly what every non-Tory is now up against. No discussion of policy, just play the man, shout a lot, it works. 5 years of coalition and we shot the monkey, gave the organ grinder a free hand, and here we are. Like I said, stupid.

It shows in part where the papers think the risk might lie with the GE and trying to turn anyone that is more liberal than far left or far right of UK politics. I think he could see they were trying to entrap him with questioning. I think I would have answered by saying that it isn't my decision and would be "god's" decision and judgement so why ask unless the papers are making a judgement on behalf of god (or in the Daily Fail and Scums case the devil)?

DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES AND EMPRESS MAY!

 Future War Cultist wrote:

I don't begrudge you for going SNP. If you leave though you will be missed.

If Scotland leaves, then rUK are pretty much condemned to Tory rule (which is unfortunate, but that's how rUK votes). At least you have the potential to get out as well

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Darkjim wrote:


I absolutely agree, it's why I said 'if anyone is left'. Even the 'Star Trek' scenario relies on lessons actually being learned, at some point. But the right have now clearly identified that the people they have been exploiting to make themselves rich are now so poorly informed that they can be led to just about any opinion with a flag waved in front of them.

I will, for my part, be voting for my current MP, Tim Farron. But just to take him as an example, the OUTRAGE in the papers yesterday at his stance on homosexuality (not least in one paper that recently attacked a judge for being 'openly gay', I won't bother naming it), is exactly what every non-Tory is now up against. No discussion of policy, just play the man, shout a lot, it works. 5 years of coalition and we shot the monkey, gave the organ grinder a free hand, and here we are. Like I said, stupid.

It shows in part where the papers think the risk might lie with the GE and trying to turn anyone that is more liberal than far left or far right of UK politics. I think he could see they were trying to entrap him with questioning. I think I would have answered by saying that it isn't my decision and would be "god's" decision and judgement so why ask unless the papers are making a judgement on behalf of god (or in the Daily Fail and Scums case the devil)?

DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES AND EMPRESS MAY!

@ Whirlwind

I'm just going to go ahead and put you on my ignore list, because I'm not reading that everytime I look in here.

My constituency has been Labour since 1922.


VOTE TORY! SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
He's just ruled out a deal with the SNP.

That worked well for Ed Miliband, didn't it?

This had been ticking through my mind. The only way Labour gets in is with a coalition with SNP. That almost certainly means a break up of the union. That's not a strong platform for an English party to run on - especially as the break up of the union almost grantees what's left will be Tory dominated for generations.

The only way it works for Labour is to say they won't form a coalition, hope that the Tories don't get enough seats for a majority, Labour then does form a coalition on the proviso that proportional representation comes into effect. The union still ends up broken but it prevents the Tories having a stranglehold on England.

 Henry wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
He's just ruled out a deal with the SNP.

That worked well for Ed Miliband, didn't it?

This had been ticking through my mind. The only way Labour gets in is with a coalition with SNP. That almost certainly means a break up of the union. That's not a strong platform for an English party to run on - especially as the break up of the union almost grantees what's left will be Tory dominated for generations.

The only way it works for Labour is to say they won't form a coalition, hope that the Tories don't get enough seats for a majority, Labour then does form a coalition on the proviso that proportional representation comes into effect. The union still ends up broken but it prevents the Tories having a stranglehold on England.

I'm just going to point out that Labour is not an English party, they are a national party. Yes there is a Scottish (and Welsh) Labour that run at the local government level, but they have to look at it at from the level of the whole country. Ruling out a coalition with the SNP is on the same level as ruling out a coalition with the Lib Dems.

Herzlos wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

I don't begrudge you for going SNP. If you leave though you will be missed.

If Scotland leaves, then rUK are pretty much condemned to Tory rule (which is unfortunate, but that's how rUK votes). At least you have the potential to get out as well

Ubran myth

Every Labour Government would' still have been in power with or without their Scottish seats.

I'm still interested to see what happens North of the Border. The Tories can largely forget it - but if Sturgeon has pushed too far with the second IndyRef, Labour could make gains.

Good or bad, I wanted to jump in and compliment you guys. Way to not get your politics thread locked (unlike the US)

 Whirlwind wrote:


Probably, though I can vary it up a bit if you want. How about

DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES - THEY ARE AS COWARDLY AS GROTS AND AS STUPID AS TROLLS

It's kind of annoying, guv. If you want a specific piece of text/image at the end of every one of your posts though, the correct place to put it would be in your signature. Saves copying and pasting every time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Drink heavily.

Now there's a policy I can get behind!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
"Petty nationalists to the left of me, self-righteous pseudo-liberals to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.....And I'm wonderin' what it is I should do..."

I can sympathise with people like yourself who might be fed up with politics and might be experiencing voter fatigue. If anything, I'm the one who should be suffering voter fatigue.

In the last 5 years, I've probably voted in more elections and referendums than nearly every other dakka member.

But I like politics, so I'm loving this.

I approach my politics in the same way I do my philosophy; with the acceptance of the absurd.

 welshhoppo wrote:

I'm just going to point out that Labour is not an English party, they are a national party.

Apologies, I worded that incorrectly. It should have read that is not a strong platform for a party to run on in England.

If he says he's willing to form a coalition, he's torn apart for appearing weak, with a tacit admission he can't win outright.

If he says 'no', he's torn apart.

True to the media, Corbyn will always have done the wrong thing, because reasons.

I do feel sorry for Corbs.

If he was head 30 years ago, or this was the Labour party of 30 years ago. I reckon he would be much more well received.

He was cheerleading the IRA when they were still killing people on a large scale whilst claiming to be a man of peace. He took money to be on Iranian state T.V (that country that hangs gay people for being gay), and he also described Bin Laden's death as a tragedy, among other things. If it's anti-west he'll back it, no matter how repugnant it is.

He's a scumbag.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
He was cheerleading the IRA when they were still killing people on a large scale whilst claiming to be a man of peace. He took money to be on Iranian state T.V (that country that hangs gay people for being gay), and he also described Bin Laden's death as a tragedy, among other things. If it's anti-west he'll back it, no matter how repugnant it is.

He's a scumbag.

Oh and retracted but said negoiate with Islamic State...
There is only victory or death with them.

Since the start of 2010, I've voted in:

3 referendums (AV, EU, Scottish Indy)

2 General Elections (with a 3rd weeks away)

1 EU Parliament election

2 Council elections (with another 2 weeks away)

2 Scottish parliament elections

My biggest regret is not being able to vote in a police and crime commisioner election. What English and Welsh dakka members have against these commisioners...I'll never know

I think they're a good idea in theory, just badly executed.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Good or bad, I wanted to jump in and compliment you guys. Way to not get your politics thread locked (unlike the US)

Just wait till election heats up. We may yet turn up the heat.
Americans welcome! Just don,t get our tea filled, dakka pub closed down

 jhe90 wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
He was cheerleading the IRA when they were still killing people on a large scale whilst claiming to be a man of peace. He took money to be on Iranian state T.V (that country that hangs gay people for being gay), and he also described Bin Laden's death as a tragedy, among other things. If it's anti-west he'll back it, no matter how repugnant it is.

He's a scumbag.

Oh and retracted but said negoiate with Islamic State...
There is only victory or death with them.

That too. What is there to negotiate with them?

And the anti-semitism in his party and his whitewashing of it. No, he's a scumbag.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Whirlwind

I'm just going to go ahead and put you on my ignore list, because I'm not reading that everytime I look in here.

You will though everytime I get quoted...and really if you want to do that why are you actually bothered to look in a UK politics forum in the first place unless you just want to be in an echo chamber!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ketara wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:


Probably, though I can vary it up a bit if you want. How about

DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES - THEY ARE AS COWARDLY AS GROTS AND AS STUPID AS TROLLS

It's kind of annoying, guv. If you want a specific piece of text/image at the end of every one of your posts though, the correct place to put it would be in your signature. Saves copying and pasting every time.

Nah, that's just being lazy, I'm passionate enough about the issue that I want to write it each and everytime....


DON'T VOTE FOR THE LYING TORIES AND DARTH MAY!

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
He was cheerleading the IRA when they were still killing people on a large scale whilst claiming to be a man of peace. He took money to be on Iranian state T.V (that country that hangs gay people for being gay), and he also described Bin Laden's death as a tragedy, among other things. If it's anti-west he'll back it, no matter how repugnant it is.

He's a scumbag.

Oh and retracted but said negoiate with Islamic State...
There is only victory or death with them.

That too. What is there to negotiate with them?

And the anti-semitism in his party and his whitewashing of it. No, he's a scumbag.

I know.

Ken Livingston should just shut up as he only making the hole worse.
Stay out the campaign. Corbyn has ernough issues.