Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In Coils of the Hydra it talks about using a Legion Specific unit from another legion. Does this mean I could use Iron Circle? and if not why?

Are they unique (as in, can you only take one)? Are they a character? Is there another special rule that specifies they can't be used? If no to all of these, then yes you can use them.

The real question is, why the hell would you want to take the Iron Circle? They're 205pts each, and you need at least two to activate the Moving Bulwark rule, and only Iron Warriors characters can join them. If you really want stompy robots that badly, just take a dude with a cortex controller and some Castellax, for a lot less points and a lot more damage potential.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The real question is, why the hell would you want to take the Iron Circle? They're 205pts each, and you need at least two to activate the Moving Bulwark rule, and only Iron Warriors characters can join them. If you really want stompy robots that badly, just take a dude with a cortex controller and some Castellax, for a lot less points and a lot more damage potential.

because they are Beautiful

I'm having a brainfail, where are the iron circle rules?

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The real question is, why the hell would you want to take the Iron Circle? They're 205pts each, and you need at least two to activate the Moving Bulwark rule, and only Iron Warriors characters can join them. If you really want stompy robots that badly, just take a dude with a cortex controller and some Castellax, for a lot less points and a lot more damage potential.

because they are Beautiful

I'm having a brainfail, where are the iron circle rules?

Rules are in the current Age of Darkness legions red book, possibly also in HH6 (friend has my copy, can't check).
Sure, the Iron Circle are pretty, but outside of an IW army, they contribute nothing useful beyond that. And even in an IW army, their cost is very prohibitive.

Ignore these dudes - the models are freakin awesome and it's totally legal. That's all the excuse you need.

I have 2 for my AL list.

Also, they fill a niche of being big, stompy, tanky defenders of your gunline. They may be slow (though they have infiltrate so who cares,) but it doesn't matter because you are making the enemy come to you.

NickAtkins wrote:
Ignore these dudes - the models are freakin awesome and it's totally legal. That's all the excuse you need.

I have 2 for my AL list.

they have a point though They can be fun in an AL list, but it's both 1) tactically 'iffy and 2) lore-wise iffy. HOWEVER if you like them, use them

Fluff wise they are one of the few units i would give you a funny look for using, they arent bribable and are basically perturabo's eyes and ears and if needs be his iron fist but like with everything a bit of fluff in your head can solve a lot of problems. Better to go for iron tyrants though or some havocs, a spoofy thing i saw someone do was take Imperial militia with al allies who had a unit of autocannon iron havocs eg bs5 -1 to cover save and he gave them the improve ap by 1 bonus from the militia warlord trait, ap3 autocannons are awesome.

 King Amroth wrote:
Fluff wise they are one of the few units i would give you a funny look for using, they arent bribable and are basically perturabo's eyes and ears and if needs be his iron fist but like with everything a bit of fluff in your head can solve a lot of problems. Better to go for iron tyrants though or some havocs, a spoofy thing i saw someone do was take Imperial militia with al allies who had a unit of autocannon iron havocs eg bs5 -1 to cover save and he gave them the improve ap by 1 bonus from the militia warlord trait, ap3 autocannons are awesome.

Then he was cheating; to get a unit of Iron havoks the AL need a ROW, meaning that they must have a model who must be your Warlord. So, they could not have been an allied faction.

 Swampmist wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Fluff wise they are one of the few units i would give you a funny look for using, they arent bribable and are basically perturabo's eyes and ears and if needs be his iron fist but like with everything a bit of fluff in your head can solve a lot of problems. Better to go for iron tyrants though or some havocs, a spoofy thing i saw someone do was take Imperial militia with al allies who had a unit of autocannon iron havocs eg bs5 -1 to cover save and he gave them the improve ap by 1 bonus from the militia warlord trait, ap3 autocannons are awesome.

Then he was cheating; to get a unit of Iron havoks the AL need a ROW, meaning that they must have a model who must be your Warlord. So, they could not have been an allied faction.

I dont disagree as such however when you read the full rules for master of the legion it makes it clear that allies can use a different rite to the primary detachment as long as they can fullfill all requirements this suggest that you can have a "master of the legion" as the HQ of an allied force who could then use a rite of war, coils of the hydra demands that you take an extra compulsory troop choice which fits since you must have 1 as an ally and can have 2.
I havent seen a faq that clears this up but if you have one ill be happy to see it, untill then my friends and i play with the understanding that the rules allow it even if it seems vague.

NickAtkins wrote:
Ignore these dudes - the models are freakin awesome and it's totally legal. That's all the excuse you need.

I have 2 for my AL list.

There is no call for rudeness. Just because you don't like the advice does not make it any less valid. As I specifically stated, apart from looking pretty, any purpose they serve is better fulfilled with Castellax for less points, more survivability, and more damage potential.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swampmist wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Fluff wise they are one of the few units i would give you a funny look for using, they arent bribable and are basically perturabo's eyes and ears and if needs be his iron fist but like with everything a bit of fluff in your head can solve a lot of problems. Better to go for iron tyrants though or some havocs, a spoofy thing i saw someone do was take Imperial militia with al allies who had a unit of autocannon iron havocs eg bs5 -1 to cover save and he gave them the improve ap by 1 bonus from the militia warlord trait, ap3 autocannons are awesome.

Then he was cheating; to get a unit of Iron havoks the AL need a ROW, meaning that they must have a model who must be your Warlord. So, they could not have been an allied faction.

Allied forces can have Rites of War, but depending on how the term "army" is defined within the Master of the Legion rules, that allied detachment may have to be at least 1000pts first.

My point was that a model with Master of the Legion MUST be your warlord unless you have a primarch, which means that having on in an allied detachment to Militia Cults is not allowed.

 Swampmist wrote:
My point was that a model with Master of the Legion MUST be your warlord unless you have a primarch, which means that having on in an allied detachment to Militia Cults is not allowed.

30k doesn't quite work like 7th ed. It is definitely stated that allied detachments Can take RoW. Haven't checked if its actually possible to do coils of the hyra, and it would need to be 1000 pts of allies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm, So Only the warlord gains the master of the legion rule. And Rites of War only affect the primary detachment. But allied forces can take them if 'eligible to do so'.

Well that's needlessly confusing and contradictory.

Rewards of Treason specifies a Primary Detachment so that's definitely a no go.

If I'm not mistaken, it's TECHNICALLY possible if your Warlord is a Primarch, as they remove the restriction from a model with Master of the Legion needing to be your warlord, which would allow you to have one in an allied detachment

While they are nice models, the rules for them are somewhat useless.
Slow, stupidly heavy on points and really don't add anything to your army.

There's nothing stopping you from taking them, but don't expect them to be game changing or even slightly useful.

If you want stompy robots, as suggested, take castellax as they pull it off with better weapons, lower points and more use.

I think they would be cool and a nice distraction, infiltrating they are a threat, just don't expect wonders. Fluff is easy, AL stole them and reprogrammed them.

At their cost, you might as well make AL be your primary and bring the other army as allies.

Having just reread coils of the hydra it does indeed state that to use rewards of treason in the ROW the AL does have to be your primary detachment. This clears that up as it means you cant use militia as your primary and use the warlord trait on a stolen unit.
It does not preclude you however from having a militia warlord and AL with a master of the legion using the row allies recieving the bonus as long as the army is over 2 k and the allies are over 1k.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

NickAtkins wrote:
Ignore these dudes - the models are freakin awesome and it's totally legal. That's all the excuse you need.

I have 2 for my AL list.

There is no call for rudeness. Just because you don't like the advice does not make it any less valid. As I specifically stated, apart from looking pretty, any purpose they serve is better fulfilled with Castellax for less points, more survivability, and more damage potential.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swampmist wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Fluff wise they are one of the few units i would give you a funny look for using, they arent bribable and are basically perturabo's eyes and ears and if needs be his iron fist but like with everything a bit of fluff in your head can solve a lot of problems. Better to go for iron tyrants though or some havocs, a spoofy thing i saw someone do was take Imperial militia with al allies who had a unit of autocannon iron havocs eg bs5 -1 to cover save and he gave them the improve ap by 1 bonus from the militia warlord trait, ap3 autocannons are awesome.

Then he was cheating; to get a unit of Iron havoks the AL need a ROW, meaning that they must have a model who must be your Warlord. So, they could not have been an allied faction.

Allied forces can have Rites of War, but depending on how the term "army" is defined within the Master of the Legion rules, that allied detachment may have to be at least 1000pts first.

I wasn't being rude, i advised him to ignore the guys saying IC are bad and take them because they're cool.

Just because you don't like my advice doesn't make it any less valid.