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So i hope this isn't considered blog material and i think it effects people outside the U.S. as well so i feel i should explain my situation.

I work a job part-time and would like to work more. I have Aspbergers and gain some government benefits (mostly money). However if i work more they will cut my funds from the government and i will actually make less money overall than i am now. From what i've heard nobody has a good solution for this. Basically you either get no government funds and work (which i'm somewhat ok with) or you live off government funds with work limitations (which i'm not ok with). I've known multiple roommates and myself have been in this situation. They get funds from the government so much so that they don't even have to work and just live off welfare (i guess that's what it is). These are perfectly healthy young men (some have even had a job and their worst disorder is probably aspbergers) which could do work but in many cases choose not to. They actually CHOOSE NOT TO WORK while being perfectly capable to do so and get funds from the government. Now i understand if you are in a tough situation like you have 12 kids and are a single parent and you can work but need more money or have some illness that has eroded your mind or body to the extent where even having a job is next to impossible. However why have we actually gotten to the point where you can so easily get welfare for small things that shouldn't hold you back very much or for not working at all and getting huge cuts should you decide to work. Let me put this into perspective for all of you. These guys often just play video games all day. One does not work and doesn't look very hard into working if at all and has been out of work for at least over a year but probably several years. The other only works part time but that's being generous as it sounds like he works one day a week. The worst disorder these 2 roommates have is aspbergers, they have next to no responsibilities, they play video games all day and barely clean the house if at all whereas i do far more for both the house and at my job.

I would like to reiterate this. I have a disorder and i wish to work but i don't want to be punished for doing so. My roommates do nothing and don't even seriously look for a job and get rewarded with lots of money for doing jack nothing of work. We are reasonably healthy young men with a disorder that doesn't hold us back much.

Sad thing is this issue is even worse. As i heard i actually made more money than a more heavily disabled roommate i had at one point because the government funds are at least somewhat based around how much your parents make or have made. That said it was an even more odd situation as at one point that same roommate was receiving benefits even though his legal citizenship into the usa had supposedly expired or he couldn't find his card and he was born in germany and lived there till 3 years old before moving to the usa. He was not able to cash his check and my half sister was somehow able to go to her bank or similar and cash it.

Basically as far as this whole situation goes all i have to say is 'Wtf?!' Seriously what in the actual **** is wrong with this system? Why is the system this screwed up? Why hasn't this been fixed yet? How has this situation been going nowhere for so long?

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If there's anything you guys can add about your experiences with similar feel free to. If there's any solutions for my situation or the way the government runs things you can also feel free to chime in.

My belief is the system is in place to help those who want to work but can't find it, and anyone who purposefully leeches off the system with no intention of finding a job (like the roommates you mentioned) is scum. Being as you're trying to work more, your attitude is one that deserves the help you're getting. It's all about attitude. You deserve the help you're receiving. Your roommates don't deserve the help. This is based solely off the information provided.

And yes, it IS a crap system where you'd be monetarily punished for working more. I believe it's a maximum of 30 hours of work a week to retain disability pay for mental disorders. Work that full 30, and do your best! Keep striving to find a better job that'll get you making more than disability could provide. Good luck man!!

Asperger's.

You and your room mates all have ASD? And your room mates may or may not also have other conditions? If you aren't certain could it be that your room mates have problems you're unaware of? I'm assuming that to obtain whatever specific benefit your room mates receive requires doctor's paperwork and the like to be submitted along with the relevant benefit forms and that you can't just get granted benefits on your say-so? If the welfare agency is satisfied that they meet the criteria then it's between your room mates and the government how much or little they do, is it not?

If they don't do enough at home maybe you should talk to them about chores? I only have my university experience to draw upon when it comes to room mates so, I sympathise completely if it seems like you have to do all the chores and they don't do anything whilst contributing to the mess. If they are hopeless cases would it be feasible to for you to move somewhere better?



In the UK there are similar conundrums to the welfare issue: you want to work more hours but lose benefits, so that working actually costs you money and simply saying 'get a better job' or 'get more hours' is pretty silly because if it were that easy no-one would be unemployed at all.

We also have the issue of government subsidised jobs. On the one hand, why should people in employment get subsidies, or rather, why should they need them? It would be better if, even working part time, the work itself paid sufficiently to not require a government 'top-up'. I do think though that a lot of the issue surrounding this is that, people don't like the idea of other people getting money 'for nothing'. I don't personally see a problem with people being given money, especially in places like the US and UK with all the money we have and the research about the benefits to a country that pays a basic income to everyone. So what if people sit at home all day and play computer games? No-one is diminished by another person being, supposedly, 'lazy' and in money terms, those who are subsisting on welfare payments aren't really that big of a deal.

At the end of the day, what difference does it make?

I've met people who were claiming unemployment benefit and did not want to work ever again. Some people are clearly upset by that. I don't care.

Unless that welfare money is remitted out of the economy altogether then eventually it goes back around. In the UK most goods incur 20% VAT so there's a big chunk of the money from the government, going to a lazy bludger, and then going right back to the treasury, who then hands it to another lazy, dole bludging scrounger and so on and so on.

I'm more concerned about things like the EU leaflet that cost £9.3 million. That money would have paid JSA to over 2,500 people for a year! Over 2,500 lazy dole scroungers could have lived, for a year, on the money spent on a leaflet.

There was a thread closed here on Dakka a few weeks ago that showed most of the welfare bill given to states was spent on things other than welfare. That is what should get people's backs up, not 'laziness'.


I say again, I can only assume that your room mates have done what they needed to do in order to satisfy the welfare agency in order to get their benefits, or, are you telling us that they are lying to the welfare agency and making fraudulent claims? If that's the case, if they are going on skiing holidays whilst claiming money for a broken back then report them to the welfare agency.

Lastly, from some very brief googling, I see that in June 2016, nationally in the US, there were 7,783,000 unemployed persons. In April 2016 there were 5.8 million job openings (the jargon on the website for the Department of Labor confuses me somewhat but I take that figure to mean total job vacancies across the US, or the four geographic regions they were looking at anyway). In other words nearly 2 million more unemployed people than available jobs.


Skip to 4:40

The bureaucracy of the US (and elsewhere) is bloated into inefficiency/incompetence, and gets pretty extreme in places. Though welfare still does people good, and it helps to remember that those individuals most aided by welfare are likely no longer on it.

Are you getting welfare, or disability? Because it seems like you are conflating the two.

What you describe sounds like SSI.

It really can get a whole hellofa lot worse. Don't feel guilty, These programs exist to help people. Once you lose something like this, you don't get it back You will get old and have much less stored than somebody without your situation.

I actually had to look up Asperger

As to your situation I am unsure how to respond but I side with Ouze question.

 Ouze wrote:
Are you getting welfare, or disability? Because it seems like you are conflating the two.

What you describe sounds like SSI.

I get SSDI. Does that clear up anything? Perhaps it's not welfare but it's something similar. I just go by what i've heard both from my half sister and others that deal with the system. It's the same story "started to work and benefits got cut, work too much and they all get cut".

@Gogsnik: I don't mind people being lazy but what i mind is people that can work with a very slight disability receiving money from the government that comes out of working individuals some of which are barely getting by.

My sympathy mostly is for the people barely getting by and working without much help if any from the government as compared to those unemployed and getting government funds when they easily could. I have no issue with somebody unemployed that can work but in many cases these people aren't really trying very hard to get a job. If somebody wants to be lazy and not work they can let their family pick up the slack. I don't see any reason why people should be forced to help people that don't even wish to help themselves. They're just pulling everybody else down with them and taking advantage of the people the government funds come from in the first place and that's disgusting.

@NinthMusketeer: I truly don't mind benefits being weened off or something similar. Perhaps they do this 'take away a dollar of government funds for every 2 dollars your income increases'. I would actually be for that. What i'm against is the benefits being cut if you work a little too much and then making less for working more. There should always be an incentive to work more and learn more not the other way around. It forces people to live on part-time or off the government rather than trying to work full-time living on their own money.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I get SSDI. Does that clear up anything? Perhaps it's not welfare but it's something similar.

It's not similar at all, other than the fact that the government is paying both of them. Welfare because you don't have a job is not at all the same thing as disability payments because you can't get a job. One is supposed to be temporary support for people who are struggling, the other is long-term support for people who are physically or mentally unable to support themselves.

@Gogsnik: I don't mind people being lazy but what i mind is people that can work with a very slight disability receiving money from the government that comes out of working individuals some of which are barely getting by.

It sounds like one of two things is the case here:

1) Your friends are able to work, and shouldn't be getting SSDI at all.

or

2) You are only seeing part of the picture and your friends have problems that do in fact prevent them from working.

Obviously I can't diagnose them from a few sentences you've posted complaining about the situation, but I have a feeling that the second case might be true. The fact that a disability is only "slight" for you does not at all mean that it's the same for other people, nor does playing video games at home all day mean that someone is able to function in a real job.

My sympathy mostly is for the people barely getting by and working without much help if any from the government as compared to those unemployed and getting government funds when they easily could. I have no issue with somebody unemployed that can work but in many cases these people aren't really trying very hard to get a job. If somebody wants to be lazy and not work they can let their family pick up the slack. I don't see any reason why people should be forced to help people that don't even wish to help themselves. They're just pulling everybody else down with them and taking advantage of the people the government funds come from in the first place and that's disgusting.

Sounds like you're doing a whole lot of stereotyping about people who get welfare support based on nothing more than a few anecdotes. Do you have any statistics on how many people are lazy vs. unable to get jobs, or are you assuming that it must be a major problem because you know some people you consider to be lazy?

Ok roommate i used to have that was from another country and had cerebral palsy (was barely able to walk). He had a job driving people places or something but lost it by drinking and driving. He legit said 'i worked for 3-4 years and i never want to work again). Should he get benefits or no?

Another guy had a job for 3 years and stopped because he could no longer afford to get there. However he is dragging his *** trying to find a new job. Oddly he keeps getting various christian charity work non-profit jobs instead of finding a paying job in fact in his eyes god always comes first and he won't get a job at the cost of the charity work. I will admit it sounds like he takes some school and cleans a little bit.

Other roommate has a job at mcdonalds and at most from what i could tell works one day a week. I saw a calendar at one point that showed his work days. It was one day a week. Just one day. The rest of the time he uses to play games, play games in the backyard like a man-child while dressing up in a nazi uniforms with his friends, brandish around a machete inside the house (something he did today when i got home) or play guitar (which he refuses to learn how to play) until 11:30 pm at night completely being an awful roommate. When i say he refuses to learn i mean he bangs on the keyboard or guitar he has for several hours straight and myself and my other roommate put on headphones with music to tune it out. It should enlighten you just how horrible of a human being he is. He doesn't clean, barely works if you can call it that, treats most everybody like garbage and very well may be one of those mentally deranged white kids that goes on a shooting spree judging from what i've seen.

Check out my 'roommates from ****' thread some months ago for more info on him.

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I suppose at the very least they should at least give the smallest effort getting a job or holding it down. I actually have faith that the roommate doing charity work isn't a half bad guy if he could learn not to talk 45 mins. carrying a conversation all by himself without any responses.

Even the alcoholic guy sounds like he just made some bad choices and to a degree didn't give a crap but people need to get their crap together and fix themselves up.

The last roommate however i have no faith with. Perhaps i'm being mean but he legit attached some screws onto a glove to make a makeshift freddy krueger glove. The guy is nuts.

However far as i can tell two of them have actually had the ability to work at one point and had jobs at one point. The last one has a job he barely works now but aspbergers doesn't hold you back enough to not work usually unless it's insanely bad.

I will admit my aspbergers is probably the least bad of everybody in the house (considering disability) esp. some of his friends with it that come over for children styled parties. That said they seem to have a lack of wanting to grow up as well and it's just disgusting. I feel like the christian roommate could maybe do it but slowly. The others not so much.

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Not sure what else there is to tell beyond his situation. I keep to myself my roommates bother me so much in this case. They make studying, eating and any progression in my life more difficult esp. when the downstairs roommate takes his approximately 2 hour long showers.

What your roommates do is entirely irrelevant to your situation. I would forget about them and concentrate on your own wellbeing.

The issue of loosing benefits as hours increase is an unfortunate side effect of systems that try to help people with limited budgets and a public desire to get people back to work. You can't do anything about this situation so I wouldn't really worry about it at all.

As you say you can choose not to work and max out benefits. Free money, we all like that but there is a stigma attached to it; plus it's also not allot in the grand scheme of things. The longer you are on benefits the more you will become dependent upon them. Don't get me wrong the disabled should have this help for as long as possible but if you have the choice I suggest that it is not something you want.

The second point I would make is that work benefits you more than just pay. Activity, travel, social interactions and Friendships/relationships are all things that increase your wellbeing and I'm guessing are particularly important to someone with Aspergers where there might be an increase issue of isolation.

The final point that I will make is that a job is not a dead-end. It is merely the current step on your path. The more you work, the more responsibility you will gain, the more responsibility then better your employment prospects are.

It's like going to college/Uni; it costs more to make that first step but that is the one that sets you on your way to a better future.

Your mates are sitting there playing games all day; I'm guessing their biggest struggle is with boredom and isolation. The two go hand in hand and I am of the opinion that they lead to a more negative path which is not a good place for anyone never mind those that have to cope with a disability.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

I will admit my aspbergers is probably the least bad of everybody in the house (considering disability) esp. some of his friends with it that come over for children styled parties. That said they seem to have a lack of wanting to grow up as well and it's just disgusting. I feel like the christian roommate could maybe do it but slowly. The others not so much.

It's very easy to look at yourself and then look at them and say, 'Hey, I have the same condition as them and I manage, why can't they?' The answer is that Aspergers is a very broad condition that encompasses a wide range of mental handicaps and predilictions. So much so, that I believe it's not even officially diagnosed in the US anymore, it's been broken down further into about six or seven different variants of autism. Some people with it are capable of living a completely normal life with minor adjustments, others are incapable of even cooking their own meals and will live with their parents for life. It also often goes hand in hand with things like depression and anxiety disorders, mental problems which can cripple the life and will to work of someone who doesn't even have the various other conditions Aspergers confers.

In short, try not to judge. It can be hard, but you just don't know what's going in their heads.

Only a small percentage of Welfare Block Grants in the US goes to actual cash welfare payments after Welfare Reform under Clinton I. I believe in Oklahoma it was around 16%, but I would have to look it up again.

So, there are a lot of things that need to be reformed in the system, and it is mostly with the State's that administer it and decide where the Block grant Money goes.

As Ketara says, try not to judge. They could be spankers (did I use that term correctly?), or they could have issues you aren't aware.

These guys often just play video games all day.

If you must judge, think of this.

You're at least working. Perhaps your part time job will lead to a full time job with benefits. So much so that you don't miss the Gov't handout. That is how it's supposed to work! I know it's frustrating if you aren't seeing any prospects right now. Keep plugging along, man. Look for other opportunities, too. Don't be satisfied if you think/know you can handle more.

Also, look at it like this. 5 years from now, who will have more luck with chicks? 3 spankers that have sat on their bums for 5 years, or a dude with a J-O-B? Perhaps even his own apartment by then.

And really, that's all that's important in life. Chicks. Or dudes, if you swing that way. Nothing wrong with that.

The system is broken. Currently the system is set up so that people in your situation who work but don't earn much get a govt subsidy to help you get by. If you work more you get less assistance and the decrease in assistance is usually much greater than the increase in income from working more hours. Therefore the system incentivizes people to not work more or take small promotions because it triggers an overall negative impact to their income due to lost assistance.

The system should be set up so that you continue to get assistance as you increase your hours or wage in a way that enables you to build up your resume and learn skills/qualifications for even better jobs eventually culmnating in you getting a job that pays enough that you don't need assistance at all. That would be much better for everyone. Govt programs that incentivize people languishing in low paying jobs that aren't careers damages their chances to get better jobs and makes them dependent on govt assistance.

Why do we have programs that work in such clearly counterproductive inefficient ways? Because politicians actively avoid solving problems and are incentivized to produce policies that increase dependence on govt to help ensure votes. The longer a problem persists that longer politicians can campaign on promising to fix it or to keep funding the programs that maintain the status quo.

People who abuse welfare don't live well. So while they are abusing it, I don't envy their lives... and it is such a drop in the bucket from a taxpayer aspect, it really doesn't bother me.


But it sounds like this is 'disability' issues and you should never question someone's disability as while they look functional to you, you have no idea what they really have or how it impacts them. Autism/Aspberger is going to be very hard for them to hold down most entry-level jobs due to their condition. If their education didn't accommodate them and train them to find a niche and be productive, then it is kinda hard to just say 'become productive!'. Many people with autism can figure out how to focus it and become highly productive, many can't and will have issues which make them simply unable to integrate. If diagnosed, it might be best for them where they are.

Would you want to live their life? No? Then don't worry about them.

nkelsch wrote:
People who abuse welfare don't live well. So while they are abusing it, I don't envy their lives... and it is such a drop in the bucket from a taxpayer aspect, it really doesn't bother me.


But it sounds like this is 'disability' issues and you should never question someone's disability as while they look functional to you, you have no idea what they really have or how it impacts them. Autism/Aspberger is going to be very hard for them to hold down most entry-level jobs due to their condition. If their education didn't accommodate them and train them to find a niche and be productive, then it is kinda hard to just say 'become productive!'. Many people with autism can figure out how to focus it and become highly productive, many can't and will have issues which make them simply unable to integrate. If diagnosed, it might be best for them where they are.

Would you want to live their life? No? Then don't worry about them.

I don't get upset over the total cost of welfare/SSDI because it is like you say a drop in the bucket and I don't envy anyone the task of living a life of dependency on govt assistance, its better than being broke and on the street but it's certainly not fun and rewarding based on my anecdotal experience with it. What gets me upset is that the govt is run by people who are supposed to care about the well being of our citizens and our country and they're supposed to care about holidng govt programs accountable for accomplishing their goals and being efficient. Letting millions of people needlessly languish on govt dependency instead of working towards integrating those people into being productive contributors to society is needless waste that is actively counter productive. Things don't have to be this way, they can be better and it's frustrating to see the people that supposedly have a vested interest in making things better clearly don't give a gak.

Prestor Jon wrote:

The system should be set up so that you continue to get assistance as you increase your hours or wage in a way that enables you to build up your resume and learn skills/qualifications for even better jobs eventually culmnating in you getting a job that pays enough that you don't need assistance at all. That would be much better for everyone. Govt programs that incentivize people languishing in low paying jobs that aren't careers damages their chances to get better jobs and makes them dependent on govt assistance.

I can get behind that.

 kronk wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:

The system should be set up so that you continue to get assistance as you increase your hours or wage in a way that enables you to build up your resume and learn skills/qualifications for even better jobs eventually culmnating in you getting a job that pays enough that you don't need assistance at all. That would be much better for everyone. Govt programs that incentivize people languishing in low paying jobs that aren't careers damages their chances to get better jobs and makes them dependent on govt assistance.

I can get behind that.

Sweet. I've always thought that the purpose of the govt giving people assistance should be to help them reach a pont where they no longer need assistance. I have no problem with the govt helping people to better themselves. I do have a problem with the govt allowing people to just live off of assistance for the rest of their life if they're willing to accept the standard of living that the assistance provides for. There's no reason for the govt to support people just for the sake of supporting them except for the rare instances of people who literally can't support themselves due to physical/mental disabilities. The amount of people claiming SSDI has skyrocketed and there's really no explanation for why so many more people are "disabled."

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/dibStat.html

http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

Create a system and someone will take advantage, no matter how noble its intentions. Unfortunately closer regulation would just cost even more money.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/worcester-woman-food-stamp-fraud-scheme-faces-sentencing-40489739

OP I don't know all of your personal situation other than from what you have posted in this thread. But reading through, if you will allow me to add my two cents. It seems like you are conflating your own personal journey with that of your room mates. You are making great strides in your life, and good for you in doing so. You are taking control of yourself through work. While this works for you, it doesn't always mean the same thing to other people. Other people might find meaning in their life through religious dedication, or having free time. These seem to be the choices that a couple of your room mates have chosen as yard sticks for their own success. Try not to judge them for their own decisions. Secondly although you say that some of your room mates are able to work but choose not to for whatever reason. It sounds like you are all living in some sort of group home for people with various mental and emotional challenges. This does not sound like the sort of environment that truly able but lazy people end up in because they are gaming the system. It sounds like a bunch of people who need extra help and assistance and may not be as able as you are. Lastly from what you describe of your nazi cosplaying freddy kruger glove making room mate. It sounds like he has many problems. Problems that seem like they would be exacerbated in a workplace full of workplace stresses. It also seems that a good yardstick of success would be able to have a living situation where you can afford to not have a room mate like that, so no matter how "lazy" your room mates might be, if you get to move, they will still be stuck with that guy, and that might be a bigger punishment than getting charged with fraud, if that is actually what they are doing.

My wife and I were on it years ago and that was our experience to. If one of us got a raise our a promotion the state would cut whatever extra we made and usually a few dollars more. Once we were actually told by a caseworker if my wife gives up her promotion we would financially be better off by a lot. Just crazy, and with young kids we were scared of losing that money. We finally had enough and said screw it. Much better off, it was/is nice to know that it's there and all but it's a scary thing when you become dependent on it

I have a glorious tale.

I became unemployed in January. Laid off after the Christmas period. I have some money saved, so I wait a few weeks before applying for credit because finding a job is hard.

I apply for Universal Credit, a week later at the meeting I find out I'm ineligible because me and my girlfriend both live at my parents house, because she counts as being my wife..... Despite the fact she pays nothing towards me.

So I have to apply for JSA, so I do so.

A few weeks later, I find out I'm ineligible for contributions based JSA because I was a student in the past two years, so it must be income based.

It turns out my Girlfriend is still classed as my wife, and despite working roughly minimum wage (salary as she is a Labratory Technician) she completely negates any claim I have.

Yay for the benefit system! Moral of the story, before claiming Universal credit, kick your girlfriend out.

I'm always a bit torn on this sort of stuff. On the one hand, I did get JSA after I finished uni,a total of either £45 a week or fortnight (it was a few years ago now) as I was living with my parents.

On the other hand, my home town could very well have been seen a real life "Only Fools and Horses" with a fair whack of the unemployed population (of which there were many) on some sort of dodge or take to live, if not wealthy lives, but at least rather comfortable ones, all things considered.

 welshhoppo wrote:
I have a glorious tale.

I became unemployed in January. Laid off after the Christmas period. I have some money saved, so I wait a few weeks before applying for credit because finding a job is hard.

I apply for Universal Credit, a week later at the meeting I find out I'm ineligible because me and my girlfriend both live at my parents house, because she counts as being my wife..... Despite the fact she pays nothing towards me.

So I have to apply for JSA, so I do so.

A few weeks later, I find out I'm ineligible for contributions based JSA because I was a student in the past two years, so it must be income based.

It turns out my Girlfriend is still classed as my wife, and despite working roughly minimum wage (salary as she is a Labratory Technician) she completely negates any claim I have.

Yay for the benefit system! Moral of the story, before claiming Universal credit, kick your girlfriend out.

Gotta love that Tory tampered welfare system!

Easy to see why people mooch off the system when the system punishes them for trying to be productive.