Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I decided I wanted a break from Astra Militarum army and thought I would try my hand with the Astartes. So I pulled out a D20 and ended up rolling the World Eaters's legion. So I started piecing together a fun fluffy list with an aim to win 50% of the time. I was hoping to get some constructive criticism on my initial army list and see what you thought before I started buying and painting (I learned my lesson after rough riders). Without further a do...

Kharn the Betrayer
*Why not? He is one of my favorite characters in the Horus Heresy books and unit wide Hatred looks like fun.

9 Chaos Chosen, 2 pairs of lightning claws, 2 meltaguns, 1 power fist, champion with combi-melta and power axe, Mark of khorne, and icon of wrath.
*Body guard for Kharn that I think looks good on paper. Power weapons for marine hunting, melta and Ap 2 for tank popping, and icon of wrath. It seems like a death star, but not sure it would work. Also, not sure pairs of lightning claws are necessary with Hatred?

Chaos Landraider with Dozer blade, extra armor, and dirge caster.
*Kharn and chosen ride forward through terrain, pop enemy tanks, and assault with no fear of overwatch, shrugging off crew stunned?

Helbrute Formation: Helcult
Chaos Hellbrute with multi-melta, Power fist, and built in heavy flamer.

Two 35 man Chaos cultists squads with Autopistols and close combat weapons and mark of khorne. (4 Flamers each)
*Fearless cultist blobs escorting a rage fueled dreadnought. I doubt this formation will make its points back, but if I can hit a gun line or get the hellbrute in close combat, it could do some damage or at least suck up fire that would otherwise Kharn and company.

Helldrake with bale flamer.
*AP 3 torrent flamer, vector strike, and anti-air. Plus, it's a freaking metal dragon.

So, what do you guys think? Playable? Fun? Effective?

It's an interesting list, definitely not one I'd ever bring but not because it doesn't look fun or even possibly decent. If you do use it, I want to know how it goes! I haven't had much success with a chaos land raider, but I've only used them once or twice. It will definitely draw all of your enemy's AT fire, helbrutes aren't usually scary enough. Unless you do what I like to do: give them reaper auto cannons and make a Mayhem Pack, deep striking right in the middle of your enemy...

That said, cultists are better than most people realize, if only because no-one expects them to be and with tons of them, you do damage just by weight of numbers. Heldrakes are amazing anti-infantry killers, and worth bringing two of, if you want your opponent to hate you. Kharn is awesome, and I haven't run Chosen but if I were to, they'd look a lot like the ones you've described.

In summary, I've seen worse lists, I've seen better lists, but this is one of the more interesting ones I've seen in a while. I don't suppose I can convince you to try it just for curiosity's sake, can I?

I appreciate your honest feedback. I may see if I can proxy this list a few times in my group to see how it fares. I was concerned about the points sink in the HQ, Elites, and Heavy support. But I guess Khorne doesn't care about who bleeds, just so long as the blood flows. If I try it out, I will be sure to post how it goes...

Any other advice or criticism?

Minor point but each Cultist squad can only have a maximum of 3 flamers (1 per 10)

I mean, it looks like a fairly fun list, but you might get frustrated with it. One burst of Grav and your ulta-expensive LR & Chosen combo is effectively removed from the game (they're just regular footslogging infantry without it). I think the consensus on Chosen is that they are ungodly expensive (for how easy to kill they are), and are best used almost like a SM command squad -- load them up with special weapons. Kharn seems to go well with Bezerkers (obviously) and will tear up anything that he can get into combat with.. only problem is getting them into combat. Hellbrutes got a little better, but still suck overall (maybe a FAQ will give them more attacks).. crazed rule still sucks. The cultists won't scare anyone and will either be ignored or annihilated.. they're usually good for tarpitting (if you have more options to finish that tarpit off) or hold objectives (or Blood Tithe, for me). Helldrake, still a good option. If i were making a fluffy world eaters list and didn't mind a low model count, I might switch those chosen up for chaos termies (although they also are overpriced) and use the red butcher FW models.. would be sick. Then bring some 'zerkers in Rhinos (not assault, but its all we got) and the Helldrake.

It's worth pointing out that this is an unbound list. The cultists are part of a formation- thus they do not count towards the 2 troop requirement of a CAD.
Just want to make sure you realize that.

Thanks for the heads up on the foration issue. I was not aware of that. I really only ever field battle forged lists. I guess I am a glutton for pain like that. With that in mind, I tried to keep to the same overall theme, but tried to add more strengths from the codex...

Kharn
9 berzerkers with a champion with power sword
Land Raider with dozer blade and dirge caster

Khorne Lord on Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption and Axe of Blind Fury

5 Spawn

2x10 Cultists

10 Chaos Marines in Rhino, 2 plasma guns, and veterans of the Long war.

2 Maulerfiends

Kharn with bezerkers in Landraider, Lord with spawn retinue. And mauled fiends charge across the board hoping for a turn two assault.

Chaos cultists and marines hide in deployment zone and secure backfield objectives.

I like this list a lot better -- you'll love that lord with the Spawn (who are far tougher than people realize, fast, too!). Should be a nice fast-moving force (with those maulers) to get in the opponent's face and wait for the 'zerkers and CSM to arrive. It's not as fluffy as you'd like, i'm sure, but on paper, Mark of Nurgle Spawn are really, really, tough.

I was just curious since I'm working on an army list featuring Karan, has anyone had any luck running that butcher horde at all?

Kargosbloodspitter wrote:
I was just curious since I'm working on an army list featuring Karan, has anyone had any luck running that butcher horde at all?

I severely doubt it.

Beyond the fact that you want to use Kharn, have you looked at running your force as Khorne Daemonkin? At least you get blood tithe points when your stuff gets blown off the table?

Even if you want to run Kharn, taking him as an allied deatchment isn't the worst thing in the universe, though the fact that you can't jam him in a raider with something scary from KDK is a touch disapointing.

CSM are bad, definately don't bother with VotLW. Berserkers are worse, just flat out don't bother. Spawn and juggerlord are good, kharn is good, but his cheap base price is somewhat negated by the obligatory land raider he requires. There's very little reason for you not to include a heldrake in any CSM list you ever write, so turing those CSM with plasma in rhino into a 'Drake is a good idea. Maulerfiends are good, especially when there's another armoured threat (ie. a land raider with Kharn and friends inside) rushing up the board with them.

Much of the success (or lack thereof) will depend on what your opponents play. If you've got the misfortune to play against Eldar or Tau with a stormsurge, you've basically lost before you've deployed. Grav marines aren't going to do you many favours either, but at least your spawn can protect the lord fairly well against grav and bolters. Against anyone who can deal with a land raider in 1 round at range (annoyingly common these days), your list will fall apart in an instant, but against other bottom tier armies and some mid tier ones, you've got a reasonable chance.