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Yes there is a scale in detail, and there is no reason to go that deep. But there is also no good reason to go into less detail than other races when it comes to "special" weapon rules, especially when the background supports a larger variety of different weapons.

 Deadshot wrote:
There are hundreds of Boltgun patterns and variants, none of them have their own rules. Shoota is a term given to any weapon carried by the Ork approximately the size of an assault rifle held with two hands. They have slight differences and may use different ammo types and have different scopes, butts, sights, grips, barrel length, magazine capacity, etc, but they all have a fairly similar range and damage output enough that trying to distinguish becomes impossible AS NO TWO ORK WEAPONS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

Add to this the fact that Marines are a numerically smaller army. They're also an army based around shooting. You'll have 5-10 x 5-10 man squads with a heavy weapon and special weapon and sergeant. It's really clear what each marine has because everything is regimented- when you look at a tac squad you'll see their bolter guys, the guy with the heavy, the guy with the special.
Even accounting for different patterns, you'll never have to wonder what gun that is.
You'll ordinarily tell the difference between two guns by their barrel- a plasmaweapon having the distinctive heat vents and coils, the bolter being square and having the circular flashback things at the sides, an autocannon having the vertical slits.

In contrast, an ork army may have a big shoota represented by a beltfed perforated manifold WW1 machinegun, or a looted heavy bolter/autocannon/chaingun.
The only continuity is that they are slightly longer than a shoota and suggest a large supply of ammo- either box or beltfed.

Some ork weapons are definitely bolters- the reason they are not classed as such is that orks don't want a gun that denies you a charge.
Therefore shootas are statted to represent ork behaviour with a variety of guns (fire full auto with big guns at short range) rather than a specific class of weapon.

Try grabbing a marine player friend and having him try a game against you where you get his weapon options and he gets yours.
Your boyz squads can now choose from the tac marines weapons list and are armed with bolt pistols and chainswords/bolters.
His tac squads now have shootas and can take rokkits/big shootas.
Your zzap guns are lascannons, his lascannons are zzap guns.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Massive roks with internal tellyporta arrays that allow orks in orbit to pour out down on the surface by the millions.

Don't forget about Attack Moons!

 =Angel= wrote:

Add to this the fact that Marines are a numerically smaller army. They're also an army based around shooting.

This can't be it. IG infanty have more weapon options than Orks and will most likely outnumber them since they have a lower base cost.
I agree on the shooting army point. I could care less about fancy shoota's but I do care about close combat stuff.
Ork really suffer from this whole close combat weapon simplification scheme.
Lets compare close combat weapon options.

Ork Weirdboyz: Force staff. (ap4 -> ineffective vs MEQ's)
IG primaris psyker: Force axe, force sword, force staff.
SM librarian: Force axe, force stave, force sword, melta bombz, storm shield

Ork Nob: close combat weapons, Big choppa and powerklw.
IG sarg: close combat weapon, power axe, powerfist, power claw, power lance, power maul,power sword
SM Tactical marine sarg: close combat weapons, lightning claws, powerfist, thunderhammer, power axe, power lance, power maul, power sword, melta bombz,
SM assault marine sarg: close combat weapons, lightning claws, powerfist, thunderhammer, power axe, power lance, power maul, power sword, melta bombz, eviserator, combat shield,

Ork Warbozz, choppa, big choppa, powerklaw
IG Company commander: melta bombz , krak grenades, power axe, powerfist, power lance, power maul, power sword
SM captain: close combat weapons, lightning claws, powerfist, thunderhammer, power axe, power lance, power maul, power sword, melta bombz, relicblade, stormshield

I completely agree that orks don't nee 30+ differnt close combat weapons but why give them less options then the normal armies and why deny them all decent options. such as non unwieldy ap3, rending weapons or inv save shields

 =Angel= wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
There are hundreds of Boltgun patterns and variants, none of them have their own rules. Shoota is a term given to any weapon carried by the Ork approximately the size of an assault rifle held with two hands. They have slight differences and may use different ammo types and have different scopes, butts, sights, grips, barrel length, magazine capacity, etc, but they all have a fairly similar range and damage output enough that trying to distinguish becomes impossible AS NO TWO ORK WEAPONS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

Add to this the fact that Marines are a numerically smaller army. They're also an army based around shooting. You'll have 5-10 x 5-10 man squads with a heavy weapon and special weapon and sergeant. It's really clear what each marine has because everything is regimented- when you look at a tac squad you'll see their bolter guys, the guy with the heavy, the guy with the special.
Even accounting for different patterns, you'll never have to wonder what gun that is.
You'll ordinarily tell the difference between two guns by their barrel- a plasmaweapon having the distinctive heat vents and coils, the bolter being square and having the circular flashback things at the sides, an autocannon having the vertical slits.

In contrast, an ork army may have a big shoota represented by a beltfed perforated manifold WW1 machinegun, or a looted heavy bolter/autocannon/chaingun.
The only continuity is that they are slightly longer than a shoota and suggest a large supply of ammo- either box or beltfed.

Some ork weapons are definitely bolters- the reason they are not classed as such is that orks don't want a gun that denies you a charge.
Therefore shootas are statted to represent ork behaviour with a variety of guns (fire full auto with big guns at short range) rather than a specific class of weapon.

Try grabbing a marine player friend and having him try a game against you where you get his weapon options and he gets yours.
Your boyz squads can now choose from the tac marines weapons list and are armed with bolt pistols and chainswords/bolters.
His tac squads now have shootas and can take rokkits/big shootas.
Your zzap guns are lascannons, his lascannons are zzap guns.

I can't tell if you are trying to argue or agree with me, so I'll requote your words.

Therefore shootas are statted to represent ork behaviour with a variety of guns (fire full auto with big guns at short range) rather than a specific class of weapon.

Indeed. A shoota may be a looted bolter. But you can be damn sure it has "improvements" and fires a multitude hodge-podge of ammo than makes it functionally very different from a bolter. Similarly, a Heavy Bolter can be looted into a Big Shoota, but as you say, a Big Shoota is simply a concept describe a large calibre automatic weapon with lots of ammo and lots of noisy, that will function very differently to the original weapon.

Imperials have 6 main weapon types: Bolt, Plasma, Flamer, Auto, Las- and Grav-, which include Pistols, rifles, assault (stormbolters, hot-shots, plasma blaster), Heavy (including Multi-laser), very Heavy (vehicle sized or Lascannon/Grav-cannon) and Titan sized, each with unique aesthetics and design to make them function in a specific way.

Orks can have Bolt, Plasma, Las and Auto weapons all the same group which have been modified to reach a certain effect, and trying to differentiate between a Big Shoota which looks like a Heavy Stubber, one that's a Heavy Bolter, one that's a plasmagun/kustom hybrid and one that's scratch built is an absolute headache. On top of that, what one weapon might be converted into on this model might be different on this. For example, in one case, a looted Lascannon might function akin to a Zzap gun, but in another it could be fixed up to fire solid shells (somehow, its Orks).


I reiterate, Ork weapons are not an exact pattern like Bolters, they are a generalised concept because trying to expand that concept with unique names and rules is going to need a D1000 system to cover them all.

Slugga: Any hand-held pistol type weapon
Shoota: Any rifle-type weapon held with 2 hands
Big-shoota: Any large calibre automatic with lots of ammo
Rokkit-Launcher: It goes boom
Choppa: any 1 handed melee weapon
Big Choppa: Any large 2 handed melee weapon
Power Klaw: Any large pincer attached to the elbow.

Admittedly, there are a few weapons that could be chucked in, like a looted Thunder Hammer, but that could also fall under Big Choppa, representing a TH that is deactivated and the Orks cant turn back on, so does the krumping through heft alone. A power axe or maul is just a Choppa, same as Chainswords and Axes. Eldar and human weapons are too puny and wimpy and don't make a loud enough bang. Tau have dakka but they puny skinny guns
with no boom. Nids weapons can't be used, neither can Necrons.

Why does a power axe have to be rewritten to S user ap - when an ork gets their hands on it, am I missing something in the fluff ?

 oldzoggy wrote:
Why does a power axe have to be rewritten to S user ap - when an ork gets their hands on it, am I missing something in the fluff ?

Because it doesn't get turned on using the appropriate Rites of Activation, therefore the power field does not function.

Also, it feels to me that it's particularly Orky not to have an effective middle ground - it's either a crude axe variant or a mechanised claw that can tear a tank in half these are the same creatures that looted a moon and flew it into a planet, so they aren't exactly ones for proportional threat response.

Besides, I think this is the least the Orks suffer with from a tabletop perspective.