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This is a question I have been wondering for years, every time I make a list and I put nobz in it people blow up and tell me to loose the nobz. I have a hard time seeing as to why they are so bad they have decent stats and two wounds; they are also very customizable you can give them power claws, BC, 'eavy armor, etc. So what's their deal why does everyone consider them to be such a bad unit? I do understand that the 18 point cost is kind of a bummer and that's before upgrades. Also do the nob warbikes work well in most lists??


Cheers, C66

I'm guessing it involves cost.

I used to use Nobz all the time; with Big Choppas they become a typically unseen threat that is much cheaper than equipping them with Power Klaws

I do say this, however, as someone who stopped playing competitively after 5th edition (and doesn't play at all now). Regardless, Nobz worked well in my lists in both 6th and 7th.

G.A

Why take nobz when you can take Meganobz?

In today's gaming climate it's likely because some other unit is 8% cheaper and kills 2% more figures, blah blah blah.

If you like them, run them.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Why take nobz when you can take Meganobz?

Meganobz can't run, fire overwatch or sweep because of Slow and Purposeful. Against marines that isn't too bad as you can't sweep em anyway. Nobz are better against guard, necrons and some others. Most people play marines though, so meganobz do look better for this reason.

The simple answer is that Nobz are two boyz worth of combat effectiveness for the cost of three boyz and a precious elite slot, but can be also instant killed by str 8 and higher.

The slightly longer reason is that Nobz are incredibly cost ineffective for whatever you want them to do. If you want them as a hammer unit that smashes into melee then for 'eavy armor + even just a few power klaws you end up with a similarly costed unit for an equal number of meganobz, the one disadvantage of meganobz (being slow) counteracted by the fact that you'd have to buy a transport for either unit anyway. If you want something to stick around in a spot and hold down the area then boyz or even grots are better suits as they're harder to get rid of thanks to more bodies and they're troops. They have no support potential, They're not a chosen esque unit that can take any special weapons so they're not all that flexible (except for maybe one turn with kombi-weapons). If you want them to kill chaft, then again boyz are just better at it.

Biker nobz are better because they can avoid instant death most of the time and they're fast, but they're nowhere near as good as they were in fifth

Nobz can be beasts..Most are going for Meganobz instead (same slot) with lots of PK's and cheaper than a standard nob PK + ard..

IIRC a nob with heavy armor and powerklaw is like 2 points less than a meganob. Sure, MANz cant overwatch or sweep, but ork overwatch is a joke since we want to be in CC anyway, and our initiative is so bad I rarely sweep as it is. The biggest issue is the lack of running, meaning they cant WAAAAGH!!!, but trukks are cheap and with 2+ armor they laugh at explodes results.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
IIRC a nob with heavy armor and powerklaw is like 2 points less than a meganob. Sure, MANz cant overwatch or sweep, but ork overwatch is a joke since we want to be in CC anyway, and our initiative is so bad I rarely sweep as it is. The biggest issue is the lack of running, meaning they cant WAAAAGH!!!, but trukks are cheap and with 2+ armor they laugh at explodes results.

Actually, a PK nob costs more than a meganob.

I think that in any future codex revision Nobz need to be 16 points, and every one of their wargear options needs to drop 10% in price. (perhaps not the bike, that should only be a minor drop).

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing Big Choppas be a little better. Perhaps be AP4, but AP 3 on the charge?

A nob in Eavy armor with a PK is 2pts MORE EXPENSIVE then a MA Nob.

A nob on bike is 45pts give him that needed powerklaw and your looking at a 70pt model.

A nob is I3 so even if you don't give him the PK for Initiative reasons, it won't matter much

A nob still has LD7 because reasons. SO when you do suffer a LD check, your going to lose models if your lucky or if your aren't lucky that expensive ELITE unit runs away.


In the end nobz and ALL of the equipment they can take is OVER PRICED. Nobz should be about 4pts a model cheaper, they should have access to bikes for 15-20pts at most (They currently pay 27) A PK shouldn't be priced at 25pts it should be closer to 20 maybe even 15 in the current meta of Scat bikes costing around the same price as a PK upgrade.

If you want them for Dakka your doing it wrong, if you want them for Close combat, boyz and MA Nobz are better.

The only time it is worth taking Nobz is if you are running a crazy CAD and need an extra HS slot for a Battlewagon, so you pay the 54pt tax to take a Dedicated Transport in the form of that Battlewagon.

Aren't PK the same as Power Fists? So they should cost the same.

pm713 wrote:
Aren't PK the same as Power Fists? So they should cost the same.

They are exactly the same, but the difference is that a SM army has shooty options to take out high AV and T targets, Orks have PKs.

But even by that logic PF's should be cheaper as well. Why is a PF or PK as expensive as a Scat Bike?

SemperMortis wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Aren't PK the same as Power Fists? So they should cost the same.

They are exactly the same, but the difference is that a SM army has shooty options to take out high AV and T targets, Orks have PKs.

But even by that logic PF's should be cheaper as well. Why is a PF or PK as expensive as a Scat Bike?

Because a scatbike is underpriced. The solution to bad balance is improving the balance not making it worse.

pm713 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Aren't PK the same as Power Fists? So they should cost the same.

They are exactly the same, but the difference is that a SM army has shooty options to take out high AV and T targets, Orks have PKs.

But even by that logic PF's should be cheaper as well. Why is a PF or PK as expensive as a Scat Bike?

Because a scatbike is underpriced. The solution to bad balance is improving the balance not making it worse.

Yes well, how long have we known that most of the Eldar codex is cheese and under priced? how much effort has GW put into fixing that problem? how much effort will they put into fixing that?

Everything about CC has become HARDER and more difficult to accomplish while shooting has become easier. Sweeping into new Combat is no longer a thing, Over watch is a thing, have we seen a decrease in point costs for CC units or gear? nope. GW has about as much knowledge of balance as I do of Astrophysics.

SemperMortis wrote:

pm713 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Aren't PK the same as Power Fists? So they should cost the same.

They are exactly the same, but the difference is that a SM army has shooty options to take out high AV and T targets, Orks have PKs.

But even by that logic PF's should be cheaper as well. Why is a PF or PK as expensive as a Scat Bike?

Because a scatbike is underpriced. The solution to bad balance is improving the balance not making it worse.

Yes well, how long have we known that most of the Eldar codex is cheese and under priced? how much effort has GW put into fixing that problem? how much effort will they put into fixing that?

Everything about CC has become HARDER and more difficult to accomplish while shooting has become easier. Sweeping into new Combat is no longer a thing, Over watch is a thing, have we seen a decrease in point costs for CC units or gear? nope. GW has about as much knowledge of balance as I do of Astrophysics.

Because Overwatch is so strong.

pm713 wrote:

Because Overwatch is so strong.

Depends on the army, but realistically if you successfully kill 1-2 of my boyz you generally are increasing the charge range for me by 1-2 inches on average. That 8in charge just became a 10in charge.

Sweeping into future combats was a big blow to CC. If you could charge out of reserve or out flanking or infiltrate (I think you used to out of out flank, can't remember) then it would help, but at the moment most armies just aren't afraid of CC armies. CC Deathstars? yes very scary, most have 2+ rerollables or invisibility or other nonsense that helps them get into CC and stay alive when they get there, the other units and CC armies? well not so much.

I have yet to hear anyone actually complain about CC being to powerful or hell even AS powerful as shooting, except in the context of deathstars.

SemperMortis wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Because Overwatch is so strong.

Depends on the army, but realistically if you successfully kill 1-2 of my boyz you generally are increasing the charge range for me by 1-2 inches on average. That 8in charge just became a 10in charge.

Sweeping into future combats was a big blow to CC. If you could charge out of reserve or out flanking or infiltrate (I think you used to out of out flank, can't remember) then it would help, but at the moment most armies just aren't afraid of CC armies. CC Deathstars? yes very scary, most have 2+ rerollables or invisibility or other nonsense that helps them get into CC and stay alive when they get there, the other units and CC armies? well not so much.

I have yet to hear anyone actually complain about CC being to powerful or hell even AS powerful as shooting, except in the context of deathstars.

I'm not saying cc is balanced. I am saying people love to exaggerate the issues a lot. Sweeping into other combats also nerfs shooting massively as you either run out of board space fast or lose most shooting after turn two.

It's the exact same problem as Chosen: they pay full price for expensive wargear on low durability models.

First step to balance 40k: go back to the model where upgrades vary in price based on 1 wound/multi wound.

To be fair GW has done more to make the game balanced then other games such as MtG, in other games you just spend the most money and always win.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Why take nobz when you can take Meganobz?

Meganobz can't run, fire overwatch or sweep because of Slow and Purposeful. Against marines that isn't too bad as you can't sweep em anyway. Nobz are better against guard, necrons and some others. Most people play marines though, so meganobz do look better for this reason.

You're taking transports for both anyway and Nobz have nothing in terms of Overwatch damage, so I'm honestly not sure why you mention that as though it were a selling point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, regarding sweeping, Nobz aren't nearly durable enough to want to sweep things as they'll take a bunch of fire next turn and die.

Like many things in the Ork codex, nobs suffer from being highly priced in comparison to what can be thrown against them. Especially considering the point investment you make, and what other codex option you could take instead.

 Elbows wrote:
In today's gaming climate it's likely because some other unit is 8% cheaper and kills 2% more figures, blah blah blah.

It's because a nob with a power claw and 6+ armor costs more than a nob with a power claw and 2+ armor. Does it change your math a bit?

They used to be very good on bikes before the new codex. Also, they could be troops. You can't make them troops now, so it's another drawback. And the most important issue is that you take nobz for the pk, really. The only thing they have over manz is that they're not snp. But you're paying too much for this advantage. Speed is generally not an issue. And ini3 is not exactly overly great for catching up stuff. Furthermore, snp can have an advantage against marines (>60% games) when you catch them near the board edge.

Manz have a formation that makes them fearless so they don't instantly become useless when you face a psycher deathstar. Without fearless, they just deal too low damage and get swept or run away. But they can hold up with fearless and deny scoring.

If you can make nobz mob workshop for you they are good enough.

The fem things they have going for them are:
-Sweeping advance
-WS5
-Hidden powerklaws
-Lots of S6, AP5
-Nobz on warbikes are better in melee than warbikers
-Dedicated battlewagon (compared to boyz)

I haven't had much experience with my Nobs since they've, cough, not yet made it to CC (granted I haven't played many games with they yet either).

I run a 10 man squad w/ Big Choppas apart from the Boss Nob with a PK, complemented with KFF + Painboy support.

Two changes I'm considering -
1. Drop 5 Big Choppas and get +1 PK.
2. Drop all but 1 Big Choppa and get +Eavy Armour (for more melee resilience).

What would you guys recommend?

I've just made a list recently after a small discussion about the Nobs mob. This list is built for 1850 noncompetitive play.
The Nobs were chosen over MANZ because I could get more of them in the unit for the points with out loosing models in other units.
It's a strange list 2 mobs of 20 evy' armoured shoota boys and 2 large grot mobs. not a lot of choppy power there. then 9 or 10 nobs with only 2 power klaws a WAAAGH Banner in a trukk with a Mega boss. It's easy enough to reshuffle some points for a pain boy as I have enough troop choices to do 2 CAD. Not a lot of power klaws in the list but at 43 or more points a models why do that. The plan is to multi assault in a way where one or more of the power klaws can hit a vehicle or more. counting on Penetrating hits to massively swing a combat.
I think a Mega boss will either survive a challenge or intimidate the Challenger away. The key thing I see is not to throw this at anything that can kill it. I really wish to at some point just rune 3 nobs mobs like this - the MegaBoss. I have to rebase and rearm a few nobs first.
They'll be like trukk boys...but Nobs.

Meganobz are more killy, more durable, and cost less than a regular Nob with a powerklaw. They just don't hold up quite as well to them. That being said I've got a buttload of Nob kits, and a cheaper mob with some big choppas and kombi-skorchas sounds like a good idea.

Which is better for their price Nob bikers or warbikers??

Warbikers will have more wounds. You just need to get Klaws in the squads, plus their guns aren't half-bad (even at the ever-fun BS2).