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Every time I see more of this game what minimal interest I had to see if it would shape up is always let down.

The game has the same amount of units and content on screen as DoW 1. So why only 3 factions and I have a sneaking suspicion a real short campaign compared to the original.

This game looks like its a play it safe cash grab and nothing more. I wish they never made the cgi gak we seen so it could have gone into the games actual budget.

Same amount of content being cut up and charging more for it. Ha Ha Ha. Ah got to love modern dlc simulators.

I'd like to underline coh2's faith since i used to be a great fan of this game, spending some 1100 hours or so on it.

As it started, the game itself wasn't that enjoyable: two armies with ridiculous soviet bias led many to drop. With, a couple of years later, the release of the Western Front Armies DLC, though costy, the game became worthwhile. The gameplay was deep, intellectually head and shoulders over any strategy game, decently balanced and unforgiving so that CoH1's cheese blob and spams were mostly uneffective. At the same time, the game did manage anyway to provide you with variety and allowed you leaps in the darks and creativity. Of course, it went though several harsh periods but remained always decent and quickly corrected.

Unfortunatly, it's success and fame doomed it through gatering more and more kikoos, wahaboos and fanboys who kept so much complaining that the game slowly went deeper into a P2W stage: instead of learning how to play and react in various cases, they were constatly shouting and arguing to the nerf of somethjng and ranting about the asymetrical balance.

Amongst their demands, the most encountered one throughout forums was that of bringing the brits as a 5th army onto the game. From here on, the game was at the very beginning of it's painful death.

A bit before the brits, they released several updates which comitted and undescriptible slaughter raging on the four: they lost vital parts of thheir design, exchanging it for plain factions that looked all the same, in order to prevent us from realizing how pathetic the brit's design actually w1s. As ridiculous as it might have been, it's worth highlighting that if one thing had to be overpowered in the whole history of the game, they were the thing. Then, to match with it, sega put its second step working: pay to win commanders ( corresponding to the companies in coh1) so powerfil that apart from playing them you had few possibilities of having a pleasant battle. This also happened while the game turned into a huge internal advert, creating its own celebrities who were nothing less than their lapdogs, bailing the worst out: the game was almist dead. Almost.

After wandering between balance and gameplay issues alongside with one of the worst communities ever to be met in a RTS, the cured the illness through symetrical balance. Though it didn't cure the problem because of shifting it into the cheese from coh1, it did manage to turn it both dull and repetitive. After this final nail in the coffin, although it's now playable, it's not worth the least second spent on it anymore.

Congratulation if you manage to read this through

As far as dow 3 it IS, definitly, utter trash.

1 graphics and gestures are at the most comparing to smartphone games.
2 the gameplay is utterly trash for it's brainless
3 more than any other, this is nothing but a display window, a shameless publicity pf the last trash by GW.
4 the voicd acting is terrible
5 too few armies available, opening the way for a DLC policy i can't bear any longer since coh2 got victimized this way a year ago
6 fluff is dead. Just take a look at the eldars
7 i foresee it'll be overpriced
8 the community has 90% chances of being hideously bad.

Given the Taldeer Wraithknight development, I'm going to be fascinated by the next chapter of LCB /tg comes up with.

Taldeer (in booming, sonorous voice): "STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR FOOD, LOFN. DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG I SLAVED TO MAKE THAT? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD IT IS TO USE MORTAL COOKWARE WHEN YOU'RE 15 METERS TALL?"

my god.... this looks so awful

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


It's funny though, people are saying its looking too much like SC2 and too much like Moba.. which is funny because they've always had strong hero powers in dawn of war, getting locked down by a Chaos sorcerer and getting beatdown by a Daemon Prince is always an.. interesting experience.

That'd take out like, one squad whilst using a late game unit. Not particularly impressive.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


It's funny though, people are saying its looking too much like SC2 and too much like Moba.. which is funny because they've always had strong hero powers in dawn of war, getting locked down by a Chaos sorcerer and getting beatdown by a Daemon Prince is always an.. interesting experience.

That'd take out like, one squad whilst using a late game unit. Not particularly impressive.

True enough, I guess I've played the campaign mode a bit too much in Dawn of War 2, doesn't particular bug me either artstyle or having stronger hero powers... Actually It makes me wish Relic had done a 40k moba/continued last stand mode rather then that indie company doing dark arena.

I watched Lionheart do a play through, and the art style did not bother me once I say it in action. It just looked like a bold paint scheme.

The cover system on the other hand... not to my liking.

I couldn't find active DoW 3 thread. Posting Eldar commentary and mission video:

Not even interested in that game......

So Jonah Orion didn't die last time round?

Well it looks a little better, and the colour palette seems much better than what we've seen before. Even so, it still seems to suffer from swarm syndrome, as in you can just mass everything up in one ball and send it towards the enemy, and probably win.

It has my attention back, nonetheless.

 General Annoyance wrote:
So Jonah Orion didn't die last time round?

Well it looks a little better, and the colour palette seems much better than what we've seen before. Even so, it still seems to suffer from swarm syndrome, as in you can just mass everything up in one ball and send it towards the enemy, and probably win.

It has my attention back, nonetheless.

Well if Angelos could take a full double fisting from a full Daemon Prince Jonah could potentially survive.


I'm intrigued by this though, I loved War3 and the hero mechanic hasn't been around for quite sometime.

Man, the more footage I watch the less interested I become - since when did Eldar get energy shields build into their armor?

I'll still probably get it

I actually like the base building. I like building up cities in total war, I like the bases in Warcraft 3 and the original DoW's, and games like Black and White 2, Halo Wars, Lords of Everquest (which wasn't too good however), and Stronghold 3.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Well if Angelos could take a full double fisting from a full Daemon Prince Jonah could potentially survive.


I'm intrigued by this though, I loved War3 and the hero mechanic hasn't been around for quite sometime.

I guess so, but Orion is a secondary character

I think I prefer the way DOW2 did its hero system, both in the campaign and in multiplayer. We'll see how it pans out though.

Frankenberry wrote:Man, the more footage I watch the less interested I become - since when did Eldar get energy shields build into their armor?

I did skip watch the video - maybe I missed where it said that? I can see a blue outline on the Dire Avengers, but it looks more like a UI feature rather than a feature on the models.

blood ravens addiction wrote:I actually like the base building. I like building up cities in total war, I like the bases in Warcraft 3 and the original DoW's, and games like Black and White 2, Halo Wars, Lords of Everquest (which wasn't too good however), and Stronghold 3.

Each to their own, but after going away and thinking about it, I still think that base building is a tired game mechanic that takes you away from actual combat and strategy, and is simply in a lot of RTS games because it feels mandatory.

Indeed. Most RTS games include base building without really thinking about it, because that's RTS tradition regardless of if it's a good idea. And DoW1 was one of those games.

Well I think DOW1 put some degree of effort into it (e.g. Waaagh! Banners, Outposts, Relics), back in a time when the RTS genre was just starting to evolve a little. I think in those times, games that didn't have base building ended up being very niche. Even now, with some of the responses on this thread, it seems that that is still the case.

I'm not really annoyed at a game having base building, but more that Dawn of War has returned to base building; other than cashing in on the licence, I fail to see how 40k promotes a base building mechanic of any kind. Relic should have created a new IP if they were desperate to include such a system, if you ask me.

I actually kind of liked the DoW base building, but then again I didn't play all that much of the DoW series past Soulstorm

For a base building mechanic, it was fairly well thought out; the main pro of it was how each faction built and advanced differently, alongside how their structures functioned. However, it's aged pretty poorly against more modern titles that let you control building placement properly, but also can't be considered to be a classic like Red Alert, since old C&C had the advantage of simplicity... and a kick ass soundtrack while you built stuff

I like base building in RTS and the shift away from that is what has kept me away from many titles. It seems like once base building is gone that becomes an excuse to make the whole game about micro, which simply isn't fun for me. Some players like it, some players don't. Certainly I enjoyed DoW1 multiplayer much more than DoW2 multiplayer, though the single-player campaign in the latter was very polished.

Overall, I think people get too nitpicky and high in their expectations in games these days. Just because a game has features you don't like doesn't mean its bad, just don't buy it and move on. Same with DLC. If the game is worth your money, buy it. If the DLC is worth your money, buy it. Otherwise don't. Getting irritated about something that isn't going to change (because the price to make a game has gone up while the base price has remained static) is really only going to make you unhappy with no benefit.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It seems like once base building is gone that becomes an excuse to make the whole game about micro

I think it is because DoW2 was very small scale and units were overall very maneuvrable and responsive, which encourages swift reflexes and precise positioning.

Compare to Total War, whose battles also lack base building entirely (and does not even include decisionmaking in units to pick once the fight has begun), but units are (as is only realistic) rather unwieldy to shift around, which means it is more about having a larger plan than executing the perfect go backwards-start shooting-go backwards-start shooting dance.

I like DoW2... But then I made my own mod for it which changed it very heavily. Vanilla DoW2 served as an excellent starting point but is not in itself enough for me. Aside from the single player which is, as noted, splendid, particularly for its impressive feat in Space Marine personality differentiation.

I just wish they'd finally show Gorgutz and Da Orkz! I can't honestly wait to see the Orkanaught shown in a Video game, might be finally useful there.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like base building in RTS

I like base building in RTS games when it actually makes sense and is well thought out. Games like Stronghold, CnC3, and Supreme Commander where base building is an important aspect of the game and the game is very knowledgable of this and doesn't just slap it on haphazardly, as opposed to games like Starcraft and its legions of clones, where it's mostly just slapped on out of tradition and as a result are total crap.

DoW1 was very muddled in how it approached base building, and DoW2 was certainly better for choosing a different path. You can argue about the scale being wrong for what you wanted out of the game, but ultimately that's not about base building. Plenty of games have had a small scale while having base building, and others have had far, FAR larger scale than any DoW or Starcraft game, but also had zero base building at all (Wargame or Total War both come to mind). I think DoW2's scale worked just fine for the story they were intending to tell, the game was clearly built around its single player.

I like base building in RTS games when it actually makes sense and is well thought out. Games like Stronghold, CnC3, and Supreme Commander where base building is an important aspect of the game and the game is very knowledgable of this and doesn't just slap it on haphazardly, as opposed to games like Starcraft and its legions of clones, where it's mostly just slapped on out of tradition and as a result are total crap.

All those games came out long after SC1 or even Brood War.

Even with that, SC has an important base building aspect, where screwing up can cause one to lose due to rushes or otherwise, whether to tech up properly or even what buildings to build when can cause problems if you just slap them down at random.

 General Annoyance wrote:
I did skip watch the video - maybe I missed where it said that? I can see a blue outline on the Dire Avengers, but it looks more like a UI feature rather than a feature on the models.

10:00

Seems like it's a pink energy bar that decreases with incoming damage but it'll also be drained when using abilities. I like it, it makes things a bit different. Same with Spectres being in the game although they are more rarer aspect, as opposed to warp spiders who were present in the previous iterations.

My favourite way base building was done was in Commander and Conquer: Tiberian Sun and Supreme Commander.

I don't know how 'competitive' players really did them but me myself, I really loved making 'actual' bases. With gates, walls, turrets, roads etc. And the shield mechanic was awesome in SupCom.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Even with that, SC has an important base building aspect

You're thinking of it from the metagame viewpoint and assuming because a metagame developed later from the acitons of h te players in regards to the weaknesses of the game design, that it was intentional. It wasn't. SC had base building because nearly every other RTS game before it did, and it really didn't introduce anything new in that regard. It wasn't even particularly impressive for its time.

 Melissia wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Even with that, SC has an important base building aspect

You're thinking of it from the metagame viewpoint and assuming because a metagame developed later from the acitons of h te players in regards to the weaknesses of the game design, that it was intentional. It wasn't. SC had base building because nearly every other RTS game before it did, and it really didn't introduce anything new in that regard. It wasn't even particularly impressive for its time.

That doesn't really make sense to me, right from the start base-building in SC and SC2 has been an integral feature to the game design; the maps are even designed around how/where bases will go. Not to mention the production-vs-econ aspect that is again the core of how the game is played.

Looks like a fun game, would get it if I had a PC

sigh, still looks crap