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So what are people's thoughts on the Quad Support Launchers?

Seems to me that they are strictly better then say a Missile Dev squad or other heavy supports barring tanks.

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:
So what are people's thoughts on the Quad Support Launchers?

Seems to me that they are strictly better then say a Missile Dev squad or other heavy supports barring tanks.

The only downside to them is being in the elite slot TBH, means they compete for slots with medics, legion uniques, termies, ect

they are amazing, especially for gunline armies like IW and IF, especially because many of those legions don't fill their elite slots easily.

They are the most powerful unit in the army list that is smaller than a super-heavy.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They are the most powerful unit in the army list that is smaller than a super-heavy.

This. With the Phosphex upgrade, they are broken.

That's not why I play 30k. At the next AdeptiCon tournament, if I see 2 or 3 units across from me, I'll just scoop and give the guy have the win.

Don't reward 30k players that spam with unit by playing them.

I can stomach one unit. More than that, go play broken 40k please.

 kronk wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They are the most powerful unit in the army list that is smaller than a super-heavy.

This. With the Phosphex upgrade, they are broken.

That's not why I play 30k. At the next AdeptiCon tournament, if I see 2 or 3 units across from me, I'll just scoop and give the guy have the win.

Don't reward 30k players that spam with unit by playing them.

I can stomach one unit. More than that, go play broken 40k please.

See, I'm not so quick to do something like this, mostly because bringing a bunch of mortars IS fluffy for some armies (IW, lF, DG, ect.) If I see a WE player spamming them then yeah I'll be annoyed, but if it's fluffy than I won't be the one to complain. Also, there is enough 2+ armor to be able to deal with Phosphex, depending on the amount. Breachers do a great job of it, in fact (2+ rerollable on the sarg, and a 6+ invuln if not a cover save on the rest.) Also, anyone who brings that much phosphex is going to be a lot less snarky when they play against robits who force you to reroll it anyway.

super strong, decently prices, very versitile. They are good, and could probably do with a slight price increase base.

 kronk wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They are the most powerful unit in the army list that is smaller than a super-heavy.

This. With the Phosphex upgrade, they are broken.

That's not why I play 30k. At the next AdeptiCon tournament, if I see 2 or 3 units across from me, I'll just scoop and give the guy have the win.

Don't reward 30k players that spam with unit by playing them.

I can stomach one unit. More than that, go play broken 40k please.

Awww, that isn't the spirit. Those DG and IW players are being fluffy. Just drop pod in and nuke the unit or lock them in assault or armor up and stuff. Plenty of ways to get around it.

 Swampmist wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They are the most powerful unit in the army list that is smaller than a super-heavy.

This. With the Phosphex upgrade, they are broken.

That's not why I play 30k. At the next AdeptiCon tournament, if I see 2 or 3 units across from me, I'll just scoop and give the guy have the win.

Don't reward 30k players that spam with unit by playing them.

I can stomach one unit. More than that, go play broken 40k please.

See, I'm not so quick to do something like this, mostly because bringing a bunch of mortars IS fluffy for some armies (IW, lF, DG, ect.) If I see a WE player spamming them then yeah I'll be annoyed, but if it's fluffy than I won't be the one to complain. Also, there is enough 2+ armor to be able to deal with Phosphex, depending on the amount. Breachers do a great job of it, in fact (2+ rerollable on the sarg, and a 6+ invuln if not a cover save on the rest.) Also, anyone who brings that much phosphex is going to be a lot less snarky when they play against robits who force you to reroll it anyway.

To play devils advocate, they could always take other artillery pieces instead of spamming the best one.

 Desubot wrote:

 Swampmist wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They are the most powerful unit in the army list that is smaller than a super-heavy.

This. With the Phosphex upgrade, they are broken.

That's not why I play 30k. At the next AdeptiCon tournament, if I see 2 or 3 units across from me, I'll just scoop and give the guy have the win.

Don't reward 30k players that spam with unit by playing them.

I can stomach one unit. More than that, go play broken 40k please.

See, I'm not so quick to do something like this, mostly because bringing a bunch of mortars IS fluffy for some armies (IW, lF, DG, ect.) If I see a WE player spamming them then yeah I'll be annoyed, but if it's fluffy than I won't be the one to complain. Also, there is enough 2+ armor to be able to deal with Phosphex, depending on the amount. Breachers do a great job of it, in fact (2+ rerollable on the sarg, and a 6+ invuln if not a cover save on the rest.) Also, anyone who brings that much phosphex is going to be a lot less snarky when they play against robits who force you to reroll it anyway.

To play devils advocate, they could always take other artillery pieces instead of spamming the best one.

True, though the problem with that being that there are only two other Artillery choices for SM right now, atleast that have barrage and work like artillery. One is the Whirlwind Scorpius, which people complain about as almost as good as Quad Mortars, and the last is a 0-1 choice of three vehicles. Sadly not a lot of options OTHER than quad mortars at the moment.

At least the price went up. And the shells are per type to upgrade. So, if they want Phosphex and Shatter, they are paying for it.

But if you see a whole ton of those, you are seeing fewer elite options otherwise, so there is also that to "balance" them out.

Just drop in a nasty Pod Dread and nuke them either way!

Also, don't forget the Medusa and the Minotaur as artillery options, Swampmist.

You can bring a fluffy list that goes beyond multiples of the best unit. When I think of the platoon sized engagements of 30k, I don't think of nine artillery pieces, light or not. When you look even at siege formations, they're going to have the assault force, not just artillery.

 Polonius wrote:
You can bring a fluffy list that goes beyond multiples of the best unit. When I think of the platoon sized engagements of 30k, I don't think of nine artillery pieces, light or not. When you look even at siege formations, they're going to have the assault force, not just artillery.

People run 9 of those? What an odd choice. I would think it would fall over dead to an army heavy on armored units or Knight lists or Drop Pod armies.

Plenty can steamroll that enough to make it not prudent. If someone insists on running 9, teach them a lesson.

 Polonius wrote:
You can bring a fluffy list that goes beyond multiples of the best unit. When I think of the platoon sized engagements of 30k, I don't think of nine artillery pieces, light or not. When you look even at siege formations, they're going to have the assault force, not just artillery.

Bingo! Exactly this. As a Luna Wolves player I plan on running six of these as the siege portion of a Black Reaving.

you can give them phospex bombs and the piercing rounds so you get 4 str8 shots With reroll armour pens each so no Your Knights aint gona survive aginst bateries of those.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
At least the price went up. And the shells are per type to upgrade. So, if they want Phosphex and Shatter, they are paying for it.

But if you see a whole ton of those, you are seeing fewer elite options otherwise, so there is also that to "balance" them out.

Just drop in a nasty Pod Dread and nuke them either way!

Also, don't forget the Medusa and the Minotaur as artillery options, Swampmist.

Yeah, while I think the phosphex QLs are scary, they're probably scarier to another gunline army trying to exchange with them.

I have a unit of 3 in my IW but when it comes down to it they are fluffy but ive had to retire them temporarilly because alongside our specials such as tyrants and havocs it gives a lot of daka and can even fend off a drop pod or deep striking force due to easy targets and easy access to interceptor.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They are the most powerful unit in the army list that is smaller than a super-heavy.

This. With the Phosphex upgrade, they are broken.

That's not why I play 30k. At the next AdeptiCon tournament, if I see 2 or 3 units across from me, I'll just scoop and give the guy have the win.

Don't reward 30k players that spam with unit by playing them.

I can stomach one unit. More than that, go play broken 40k please.

Awww, that isn't the spirit. Those DG and IW players are being fluffy. Just drop pod in and nuke the unit or lock them in assault or armor up and stuff. Plenty of ways to get around it.

Kronk runs foot breacher IF. List tailoring to face quad mortar spam is almost as TFG as running quad mortar spam.

I agree with Kronk, btw. Quad mortars should never have had a phosphex option to begin with.

I just deepstrike Horus and his justaerin or some javelins behind them. Also, shooting them with 'blind' weapons can be useful

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
You can bring a fluffy list that goes beyond multiples of the best unit. When I think of the platoon sized engagements of 30k, I don't think of nine artillery pieces, light or not. When you look even at siege formations, they're going to have the assault force, not just artillery.

People run 9 of those? What an odd choice. I would think it would fall over dead to an army heavy on armored units or Knight lists or Drop Pod armies.

Mortars have all the options (and they can take all of these options at once) to obliterate both those and Drop armies. There's no army they can't annihilate while costing vastly less.

I had a Drop list against some mortars in my last game. My friend would have killed almost all of my forces if he hadn't decided to show mercy. The next two turns the only things not shredded apart were the Drop Pods.

pods, things with longer ranges, apothecaries, terminators, etc. are all fairly decent counters (not perfect mind you). I'm not saying that mortars aren't strong, but there are responses to them.

 Brennonjw wrote:
pods, ..., apothecaries, terminators, .

These things have already been proven ineffective.

As for "things with longer ranges" there isn't much outside of super-heavies.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
At least the price went up. And the shells are per type to upgrade. So, if they want Phosphex and Shatter, they are paying for it.

But if you see a whole ton of those, you are seeing fewer elite options otherwise, so there is also that to "balance" them out.

Just drop in a nasty Pod Dread and nuke them either way!

Also, don't forget the Medusa and the Minotaur as artillery options, Swampmist.

Medusa's in the 0-1 choice I mentioned friend And I didn't count the achilles because it's another quad mortar, just in a different slot on the FOC


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
pods, ..., apothecaries, terminators, .

These things have already been proven ineffective.

I don't think proven is the right word here. a 2+ on large bases that make it harder to generate extra hits (Terminators) is a fairly good answer to small numbers of Mortars. Plasma cannons ignore the 2+ and wound on 2s, but they just can't generate enough wounds for it to matter. So, by that logic, a weapon with 1\6 less chance to wound and a 5\6 chance to be saved (rather than 1\6) should end up being less effective point-for-point. Now, if you spam 4 units of 3 plus a full squad of achilles Land Raiders? then sure it gets utterly stupid. But they are not unbeatable when taken in reasonable amounts. Undercosted? Probably. But not unbeatable, or even really unreasonable.

 Swampmist wrote:

I don't think proven is the right word here. a 2+ on large bases that make it harder to generate extra hits (Terminators) is a fairly good answer to small numbers of Mortars. Plasma cannons ignore the 2+ and wound on 2s, but they just can't generate enough wounds for it to matter.

You know of a way to get 12 Plasma Cannons cheaper than a squad of Terminators? Because Quad Mortars are. 4 times the shots, 1/3 the kills. They are better than Plasma Cannons.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
You can bring a fluffy list that goes beyond multiples of the best unit. When I think of the platoon sized engagements of 30k, I don't think of nine artillery pieces, light or not. When you look even at siege formations, they're going to have the assault force, not just artillery.

People run 9 of those? What an odd choice. I would think it would fall over dead to an army heavy on armored units or Knight lists or Drop Pod armies.

3 Quad Mortar's with Shatter Shells will on average do 6HPs to AV12. If you catch a Knight on an unshielded side arc odds are you'll destroy it.

Who runs 9 quad mortars?!
I've got the capability to do three and a land raider achillies, but nine in one force doesn't just take the biscuit; it snatches the entire tin and runs off!!
I hereby accuse them of 'spamming' and are going to need a better defence than playing IW to sway my opinion!

oh, yeah, nine is freaking ridiculous. I was simply pointing out that 3-5 are not. I personally would only ever take 2 units of 2 or 1 unit of three in a competitive list\an Ironfire list, and usually only take 1 in FLGS games (though that's because I only have the one.)

I was running DG against Sallies. I had 6 Mortars, w/Shatter+Phosphex (which btw makes them expensive).

Sallies flat-out'ed a Spartan. I wrecked it. 10 Terminators piled out and kiled all the Mortars.

They're good but not invincible.

Also, I just realized that there are a few units who are much better at surviving against the Phosphex Mortars now, as there are more squads you can place apothecaries in. The Sallie's HS unit with all artificer armor comes immediately to mind, though I'm sure that there are others.