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Something that always bothers me about haywire weapons is that they don't get bonuses for attacking non-vehicle mechanical or 'robot' targets.
Similarly, poisoned weapons do get bonuses for attacking mechanical non-vehicles.
Always thought that was weird.

Anyway, my proposed fix to this is the 'Mechanical' special rule:

Mechanical- Attacks with the Poisoned special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6 (unless the
attack’s Strength would cause a Wound on a lower result). In addition, Attacks with the Haywire
special rule cause a Wound on a roll of a 2+

What has this?
-Necrons, pretty much all of them.
-Tau Battlesuits
-Kastellan Robots
That's about it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My other proposed rule is to fix gets hot! blast weapons ie. plasma cannons.
What always bugs me about plasma cannons is that when they overheat you don't get a chance to shoot.

My fix is simple,
Gets hot blast weapons only overheat when an eleven or twelve is rolled for scatter deviation with an arrow.
*if this happens, no shot is resolved*

Let me know whatcha think.

 Foxy_Grandpa wrote:

What always bugs me about plasma cannons is that when they overheat you don't get a chance to shoot.

Is that a problem? no other Gets Hot weapon gets to fire the shot when they Get hot either...

Nah, they totally get to fire a shot! The '1' when you roll to hit represents a missed shot with any other gun. Plasma guns just overheat when you miss badly with them.
If you wanted to balance it the opposite way plasma guns would have to roll before they even shot, right?

 Foxy_Grandpa wrote:
The '1' when you roll to hit represents a missed shot with any other gun..

Which is exactly the same as not firing the shot. Either way, no shot is resolved, the weapon just gets hot.

I just feel like the overheating should be resolved at the same time for both kinds of weapons
either make the plasma gun roll before it gets hot or make the plasma cannon super miss to get hot

 Foxy_Grandpa wrote:


Mechanical- Attacks with the Poisoned special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6 (unless the
attack’s Strength would cause a Wound on a lower result). In addition, Attacks with the Haywire
special rule cause a Wound on a roll of a 2+

What has this?
-Necrons, pretty much all of them.
-Tau Battlesuits
-Kastellan Robots
That's about it.

Feth that, you just made Dark Eldar unusable.

 Imateria wrote:

 Foxy_Grandpa wrote:


Mechanical- Attacks with the Poisoned special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6 (unless the
attack’s Strength would cause a Wound on a lower result). In addition, Attacks with the Haywire
special rule cause a Wound on a roll of a 2+

What has this?
-Necrons, pretty much all of them.
-Tau Battlesuits
-Kastellan Robots
That's about it.

Feth that, you just made Dark Eldar unusable.

Yeah, I gotta say this really seems like an unintended consequence. I remember a few editions again when Poison weapons had a "fluff" explanation that the rounds would get swapped out with special chemicals that reacted with any mechanical creation, making the roll to wound act the same.

But other than the glaring nerf to Dark Eldar, I like the proposed rule. I would suggest, however, that the poison vs Mechanical be -1 to wound, rather than a straight 6. This is how it should be for GCs also.
You should also word Haywire vs Mechanical as gaining Fleshbane, just to tidy it up

On Gets Hot blasts: I like the idea of combining the roll to hit, rather than having to roll an additional dice, but I don't think the roll of 11+ is enough. All other Gets Hot! weapons have a 1-in-6 chance of getting hot, Blasts should be the same. So they should get hot on probably a 10+, or even 9+, or maybe on any doubles rolled instead (although this might be too much, not sure the chances of rollng doubles)

--

One thing regarding Gets Hot and blasts: non-blast weapons can still re-roll that 1 if they have a way to, like Twin-linked, Preferred Enemy, Prescience/Guide, etc. Blasts, per the recent FAQ/Errata can't, which is kind of a downside.

I realize this was mostly to nerf the IA+Riptide+ECPA combo, which needs nerfing, but it also nerfs such infuriating things as plasma cannons (which don't need the nerf).

I'm not sure that really makes a case one way or the other, but it's a point to ponder.

Right now haywire takes a hullpoint off any vehicle regardless of it's armor value on a 2+, and you want to buff it?

No.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Right now haywire takes a hullpoint off any vehicle regardless of it's armor value on a 2+, and you want to buff it?

No.

I mean, it did get a nerf with the most recent FAQ. Haywire is actually reasonable now. Adding this little bit would make sense fluff wise, and even as a Necron player I'd be okay with it.

Now if we could just give SHVs some sort of resistance to it, we'd be in business.

 Galef wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Foxy_Grandpa wrote:


Mechanical- Attacks with the Poisoned special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6 (unless the
attack’s Strength would cause a Wound on a lower result). In addition, Attacks with the Haywire
special rule cause a Wound on a roll of a 2+

What has this?
-Necrons, pretty much all of them.
-Tau Battlesuits
-Kastellan Robots
That's about it.

Feth that, you just made Dark Eldar unusable.

Yeah, I gotta say this really seems like an unintended consequence. I remember a few editions again when Poison weapons had a "fluff" explanation that the rounds would get swapped out with special chemicals that reacted with any mechanical creation, making the roll to wound act the same.

But other than the glaring nerf to Dark Eldar, I like the proposed rule. I would suggest, however, that the poison vs Mechanical be -1 to wound, rather than a straight 6. This is how it should be for GCs also.
You should also word Haywire vs Mechanical as gaining Fleshbane, just to tidy it up

On Gets Hot blasts: I like the idea of combining the roll to hit, rather than having to roll an additional dice, but I don't think the roll of 11+ is enough. All other Gets Hot! weapons have a 1-in-6 chance of getting hot, Blasts should be the same. So they should get hot on probably a 10+, or even 9+, or maybe on any doubles rolled instead (although this might be too much, not sure the chances of rollng doubles)

--

Get's hot is pretty stupid already on things like plasma guns - they don't need this random chance to hurt you. However with a gets hot blast weapon you take away the main advatnage of a blast weapon - the high probability of hitting clustered units - having a 1/6 chance to not shoot at all is pretty weak.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Right now haywire takes a hullpoint off any vehicle regardless of it's armor value on a 2+, and you want to buff it?

No.

I mean, it did get a nerf with the most recent FAQ. Haywire is actually reasonable now. Adding this little bit would make sense fluff wise, and even as a Necron player I'd be okay with it.

Now if we could just give SHVs some sort of resistance to it, we'd be in business.

What happened in the FAQ?

pm713 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Right now haywire takes a hullpoint off any vehicle regardless of it's armor value on a 2+, and you want to buff it?

No.

I mean, it did get a nerf with the most recent FAQ. Haywire is actually reasonable now. Adding this little bit would make sense fluff wise, and even as a Necron player I'd be okay with it.

Now if we could just give SHVs some sort of resistance to it, we'd be in business.

What happened in the FAQ?

To Haywire? Absoltuely nothing as far as I remember, this is probably another complaint about grenades.

 insaniak wrote:

 Foxy_Grandpa wrote:
The '1' when you roll to hit represents a missed shot with any other gun..

Which is exactly the same as not firing the shot. Either way, no shot is resolved, the weapon just gets hot.

The issue is that with non-blast weapons the "gets hot" penalty only applies on shots you've already missed. It punishes you for missing occasionally, but it doesn't reduce your firepower. But with blast weapons you lose a flat 1/6 of your firepower on top of any shots you miss because the to-hit dice fail you. That's a much harsher penalty than on non-blast weapons.

Plasma cannon is worse than I thought by that analysis. Not that i ever use them.

 Imateria wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Right now haywire takes a hullpoint off any vehicle regardless of it's armor value on a 2+, and you want to buff it?

No.

I mean, it did get a nerf with the most recent FAQ. Haywire is actually reasonable now. Adding this little bit would make sense fluff wise, and even as a Necron player I'd be okay with it.

Now if we could just give SHVs some sort of resistance to it, we'd be in business.

What happened in the FAQ?

To Haywire? Absoltuely nothing as far as I remember, this is probably another complaint about grenades.

Yes, thank you for assuming I'm complaining about grenades when I play an army that literally doesn't have any.

I'm all for the change to grenades, actually.