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So I am playing around with the idea for a 1500pt tourney in which no model can be bigger than a certain size.
Think of 40K 4th/5th edition, when Wraithlords, Dreadnoughts and Carnifexes were the biggest things normally seen, and the Defiler and Monolith were GW's largest kits.
I need help "classifying" what that means. My first thought is to disallow GC's & Super Heavies, but that still leaves Riptides, DKs, and numerous other big units.

I could say "no models bigger than those intended to be based on 60mm" but the problem with that is how do you determine this since base sizes tend to change and does not seem to matter to GW.
If I create a list on models not allowed, some players will think their army is being "picked on". Particularly CSM and Nids have a few Walkers & MCs that are on the Oval base, but functionally they aren't much more threatening than Dreadnoughts. Another alternate solution is to ban MCs and Walkers altogether, but that's not fun for some players.


Maybe only allow Walkers (or any vehicles) that have 3 or less HPs and only MC's that have 4 or less wounds?
That would pretty much disallow Knights, WKs, Riptides, but still allow the old-school classics. The DK is the only example I can think of that might be questionable.

Any thoughts? Any army that I am unintentionally screwing over? Thematically, I want this tournament to represent small groups that have been separated from their main army and don't have access to the "big guns"

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Simple Models can be no higher then this [enter hight here] high*.

* And don't even think about converting models to be any lower.

The only thing you would need is cool picture of a space marine with a flocked goblin green base holding a ruler and a max on it and you are done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would put the hight at 0,5 cm higher then the highest tyranid walking monster. This would exclude riptides, flyers, flying monsterous creatures, gorkanauts, stompa's and all knights

monsterous and gargantuan creatures are limited to toughness 7. vehicles are limited to a total AV of 45

Gave it some more thought I would put the hight limit on a wraith lord. Anything higher and it isn't allowed this should give it a olskool feel again. And give a bonus for players using flock and for those using goblin green bases.

I would instead put out a list of specific models to ban instead of trying to put a blanket restriction, cuz I know exactly what you're talking about but there's so many now that it's near impossible to exclude them without excluding some old favourites (like, the monolith is actually bigger than most of what I think you wanna restrict). Not to mention a few models have drastically changed sizes, most notably the Bloodthirster.

I would start off with:

Any Gargantuan Creatures or Super-heavy Walkers
Most Flyers
Morkanauts/Gorkanauts
Trygon, Exocrine, Haruspex, Tervigon, Tyrannofex, Harpy, Mawloc, Hive Crone
Dreadknight
Forge Fiend/Maulerfiend
Chariots
Centurions


Add or take away anything to suit the taste and feel.

Another way is maybe limit it to units that only appeared in pre-5th edition codexes or have an equivallent (again, Bloodthirsters is the odd one out in this).

Here is an example it works perfectly, to ban all the big stuff : D
And to make Carnifexes and wraith lords the biggest things on the table again.

Yeah, because of all things to ban, you REALLY need to ban those Tyrannofexes, right? :\

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
monsterous and gargantuan creatures are limited to toughness 7. vehicles are limited to a total AV of 45

That still allows Riptides and a few other Oval based MCs. And total AV45 would disallow Dreadnaughts. I actually want to allow Wraithlords, Dreadnaughts and Carnifexes. Ya know, the models no one uses anymore because the bigger ones are better.

The more I think about it, the more appealing this sounds:
No Vehicles with more than 3 HPs, No non-vehicle Models with more than 4 wounds.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Gave it some more thought I would put the hight limit on a wraith lord. Anything higher and it isn't allowed this should give it a olskool feel again. And give a bonus for players using flock and for those using goblin green bases.

I don't want to put a height limit as that restricts conversion work (or encourages modeling for advantage). I want to put a hard and fast limit based on the rules for said model, not how they are modeled.
But I'll take the green-base idea into consideration, lol

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The great unclean one will sure like that


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 curran12 wrote:
Yeah, because of all things to ban, you REALLY need to ban those Tyrannofexes, right? :\

hey he wanted oldskool. Not balanced. Banning Tyrannofexes and Mawlocks sure does make the game feel more oldskool.

Unfortunately, I can't think of anything that doesn't just create other problems. Get rid of big stuff, and deathstars become a problem. Get rid of deathstars and scatbikes become a problem. Get rid of scatbikes and formations become a problem. Get rid of formations... etc... etc...

The game's been building system on top of system to "one-up" previous things for so long that players who seek to create unfun, non-interacting lists are going to be able to do so.

However, if you're going to try and just get rid of "big stuff", the best way may be to say "no vehicle, monstrous creature, or super-heavy that was introduced to the game after 4th edition". It hits a big swath of stuff, and yes it will neuter certain units, and it'll be very complex for players who have no idea what was in the game back then... but it'll hit everything you want to hit, while avoiding everything you want to avoid.

Defilers, Monoliths, Hammerheads, Wraithlords... they were all around back in 4th edition, but Wraith Knights, Imperial Knights, Riptides, Fateweaver... they're all out.

Only thing, there's ALWAYS something. In this case, Hive Tyrants with Wings were still a thing, and this change would just make them way stronger.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I would instead put out a list of specific models to ban instead of trying to put a blanket restriction, cuz I know exactly what you're talking about but there's so many now that it's near impossible to exclude them without excluding some old favourites (like, the monolith is actually bigger than most of what I think you wanna restrict). Not to mention a few models have drastically changed sizes, most notably the Bloodthirster.

I would start off with:

Any Gargantuan Creatures or Super-heavy Walkers
Most Flyers
Morkanauts/Gorkanauts
Trygon, Exocrine, Haruspex, Tervigon, Tyrannofex, Harpy, Mawloc, Hive Crone
Dreadknight
Forge Fiend/Maulerfiend
Chariots
Centurions


Add or take away anything to suit the taste and feel.

Another way is maybe limit it to units that only appeared in pre-5th edition codexes or have an equivallent (again, Bloodthirsters is the odd one out in this).

I think the issue with the Bloodthirster would be fixed it none of the Greater Daemons were allowed. not that they are OP, or didn't exist pre-5th ed, but so that it's even amongst the other armies.
I gues I'm not trying to "bring back 5th", but I'm trying to make the scale feel smaller, like it was in 5th. Everything else I want from 7th ed. Battle-Forged, of course.
I'll have to think about it more, but for now I'm leaning towards the max 4HP/4 Wounds as a quick and simple method that should effect 95% of the armies.

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I think it would be easier to simply create a list. How many large models are there? (and you can simply excluse any Forgeworld models which aren't infantry or something).

Another option is a points limit? Do all of the large models fall in a certain points bracket (point limit for an individual model).