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 Orlanth wrote:
after all when we play 1500pts SM are not that superior, ork and guard armies with only 3:1 odds can match them.

Wrong section, friend.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/18.page

Here you go. This is the Background section, it is for discussing the game's lore.

After all, if we can use game mechanics, this becomes equally canon.


Oh my, a single assault marine can kill 891 Orks (a mix of boyz, nobz, scarboyz, 'ard boyz, gretchin, etc.) Imagine what a thousand marines with all support elements, vehicles, combined arms and unit cooperation as well as orbital support can do, especially in the context of surgical strike warfare rather than a constant mosh pit!

I shed no tears for their 27point eldar on a jetbike with scatter lasers. I believe all 295 point wraith knights deserve a horrendous death by grav guns.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
I shed no tears for their 27point eldar on a jetbike with scatter lasers. I believe all 295 point wraith knights deserve a horrendous death by grav guns.

That's a nice way of doing things.

 Orlanth wrote:

I would be prepared to accept that the thousand chapters of a thousand battle brothers is a bardic tale style generalisation. The party line, not the actual truth. We have SM chapters stopping what emerges from whole hivefleets cold with their bolters, something has to give. I would take that to be the propaganda hype of the Adeptus Astartes. after all when we play 1500pts SM are not that superior, ork and guard armies with only 3:1 odds can match them.

Gameplay-Story Segregation

 Selym wrote:
So, I've had a conversation with one of my friends in which he was adamant that a single Space Marine loss was a smaller blow to SM forces in general that a single Eldar loss is to Eldar forces in general. His reasoning is that as the Eldar are a dying race, they can't replace their losses, and that after 10,000 years of falling it makes sense to him that the entire Eldar race is now incapable of mustering sufficient forces to take out Space Marines. He is under the impression that the Eldar military now counts for less than 1 million active duty soldiers (excluding guardians).

Are there any grounds to this belief, or is it as silly as I think it is?

I don't entirely agree with your friend's assertion. For a race that has supposedly been on it's last leg for the last 10,000 years of 40k history, they remain a military force to be reckoned with. They shouldn't be able to bounce back from suffering major blows, but somehow they do. This is doubly true when you factor in the Eldar existing in defacto, self-contained "successor states" to the fallen Empire, with their own governments, military forces, economies, priorities, and unique cultural traits.

In my view, the whole "space elves are forsaken/doomed" gimmick is just played up for the grimdark. It's stated in the fluff. But the Eldar seem to be doing pretty damned good in spite of it, and all things considering.


The loss of an Astartes IS a big deal, since the process for creating one is a long, drawn out affair, and involves techniques no longer fully understood by the Biologis. There is a reason besides just "honor" and Chapter pride that the Imperium goes to great lengths to recover the geneseed organs from fallen Marines.


If I had to make a comparison, I would say that the loss of an Astartes is on par with a Craftworld military losing an Aspect Warrior. The level of dedication, training, resources, and processes involved in creating these hyper-elite warriors makes them both highly valuable to their respective factions. There aren't that many of them, making them both a special breed among their people.

I think Aspect Warriors and Marines are fair comparisons in most regards.

The Path of the Warrior (I think) novel does state that the Eldar were concerned about Space Marines arriving as they were a match for Aspect Warriors.

 =Angel= wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
It's worth noting that Chapters are also numbered. The Grey Knights are numbered 666 out of 1000 due to the numbers significance as a weapon against Chaos - despite there only being 400 chapters in existence at their time of creation. Similarly, after the destruction of the Star Scorpions, the Mentor Legion took up the Number 888.

So a few of the Chapters we know about do have numbers, although it seems GW couldn't be bothered to give all of them numbers. Similarly, we already know Chapters 1-20 as being the original Legions (Even if 2 are lost/purged and 9 are Traitors). I'd guess that from an in-universe point of view, all the Chapters have numbers, but from our perspective it's just GW don't think it's relevant to waste time on numbering them. Nevertheless, it's widely accepted that there are approx 1000 Chapters each of approx 1000 marines give an approx total of just over 1 million marines.

That's an interesting point. When a chapter dies (or is presumed dead) does the number pass on to a newly founded chapter? Is there a spreadsheet on Terra with 1000 numbers and a clerk constantly deleting names/heraldry fields and putting new ones in?
If they all have numbers then you'd think they have a very good idea of how many chapters there are.
You'd also have to assume that when a chapter who was thought destroyed returns after an absence that they'd share a number with some new kids on the block chapter.

I have to say, I don't like the idea of chapters flying around with number plates that the highlords gave them. Seems to eat away at chapter autonomy.

There are quite a few Chapters that have assumed old heraldry and names - The Minotaurs and the Emperor's Swords spring to mind. If the name passess on, then I'd imagine either the number passes with it, or the Chapter is simply given a new number according to how many chapters are active at that point. Also, I'd think it very plausible that the Adeptus Terra has whole divisions relating to the heraldry and monitoring of Space Marine chapters - after all, the United Kingdom has the College of Arms to administer and create heraldry for our aristocracy and indeed anybody who desires a coat of arms can apply (Although it's not so simple as to ask - you have to prove yourself worthy of a coat of arms.).

Imateria wrote:I'm not sure about that, I mean the Grey Knights were founded during the Horus Heresy, there weren't any chapters then they were still legions.

Actually - not so. The Knights Errant are accepted to be the fore-runners to the Grey Knights and were active during the HH, but the Grey Knights themselves were only revealed after the HH, during the events of the 2nd Founding, in which Guilliman split the Legions into their constituent Chapters. It's also worth noting that each Legion was itself formed of Chapters - so even if the Grey Knights had appeared during the HH, they may still have only been 'Chapter' strength. Finally, the number of 666 was taken due to it's significance as another tool to fight daemons - NOT because there were 666 Chapters in existence then.

Anyway, this is all a little off-topic, even if it is to establish the number of SM - in truth, the Eldar probably count into the Billions quite comfortably. Not only do you have the 5 major Craftworlds, but you also have at least another 24 other Craftworlds, presumably varying in size. Now, assuming each Craftworld is roughly the size of a small planet and has even just one billion inhabitants (not forgetting that the Indian subcontinent on Earth alone has around 1.75 Billion inhabitants - and a Craftworld is far bigger than that) - then that still means that there are at least 30 billion Eldar out there. If there are only 1 million SM around then I'd say they most certainly do not outnumber the Eldar - even if you just count Aspect Warriors or standing forces...

EDIT: OH, and that's forgetting the extra few billion Exodite Eldar are maybe a couple million Corsairs. If really want, you could include the Dark Eldar as they are technically the same species even if they pursue alternative goals and means.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
...even if it is to establish the number of SM - in truth, the Eldar probably count into the Billions quite comfortably. Not only do you have the 5 major Craftworlds, but you also have at least another 24 other Craftworlds, presumably varying in size. Now, assuming each Craftworld is roughly the size of a small planet and has even just one billion inhabitants (not forgetting that the Indian subcontinent on Earth alone has around 1.75 Billion inhabitants - and a Craftworld is far bigger than that) - then that still means that there are at least 30 billion Eldar out there. If there are only 1 million SM around then I'd say they most certainly do not outnumber the Eldar - even if you just count Aspect Warriors or standing forces...

EDIT: OH, and that's forgetting the extra few billion Exodite Eldar are maybe a couple million Corsairs. If really want, you could include the Dark Eldar as they are technically the same species even if they pursue alternative goals and means.

This. I think it's more than reasonable to think that the number of Eldar are in the billions. And even if we assume that there are only millions (not tens of millions or hundreds of millions, just millions), then my bet is that the Eldar probably either would have been wiped out if they ever reach such a low number, or still outnumber the Space Marines.

Let's consider pre-Heresy Legions where the Space Marines as a whole were arguably more organised and there was no numbers restrictions. Using the numbers found here as a rough guide. That means that there was ~2,000,000 Space Marines as a maximum number (excl. Custodes and other non-Legion Marines). Given that the current 40K Chapters are likely to not be at full strength, are more likely to fall to Chaos, and where our best guess at the number of Chapters is approx. 1,000, there are a hell of a lot less Space Marines than there were in the pr-Heresy days. This means that unless the Eldar (whether you include the Exodites or not) has the insanely low population of much less than 2,000,000, then the Space Marines are never ever going to outnumber them.

On the subject of "number of Space Marines", here are a few things to remember:

1.) the "thousand space marine chapters", like someone pointed out earlier, isn't a hard number. It's a rough (really rough) estimate of how many active chapters there are, as no one truly knows. While it would not be as high as 2000 nor dip as low as 500, I'm guessing it's still above 1000 and "swings" for a few hundred, so it could be up to 1300 chapters and everything in between (the fact that we have stories where entire Chapters are destroyed and created just muddles the details further).

2.) "1000 space marines" is not the whole of a chapter. This is merely how many rank and file battle brothers there are. Each company is ideally made up of 100 battle brothers split into 10 squads of 10, but these do not include their Company Command. In addition, specialist formations such as the Apothecarion, Reclusiam, Armory (including Techmarines) Librarius, Dreadnoughts, and Chapter Command lies outside of these numbers. The Armory in particular is implied to be huge, possibly up to half the active battle brothers in the chapter proper as they maintain all the warmachines of the chapter, including being their crew.

With all of that in mind, a single chapter might realistically have an upwards of 2000 astartes (that is, marines who have fully accepted the organ transplants and survived their chapter's trials, but may not have received power armor yet). And this is only for codex-compliant chapters; Dark Angels are implied to have over 200 members of Deathwing, twice the amount normal for the first company, while the Blood Angels have the Death Company off-record. Black Templars meanwhile might already be at legion strength and no one really knows how big the whole of the Space Wolves can get.

surprised no one brought up the "billions that died" when the nids attacked iyanden, thank matt ward for that one

We doth not reference the name of the beast

Remember the Blood Knights of Khorne?

As mentioned, Space Marines are fewer, but easier to replace. The Eldar are more, but slower to replace.

 Melissia wrote:
There is, at most, several million marines. The Dark Eldar alone very likely number more than that, never mind the more numerous Craftworld Eldar (Dark Eldar have the equivalent of one moon-sized city, Craftworld Eldar have a few dozen moon-sized cities).

There are 1,000 Chapters, and while some are over strength (Black Templars), most are undermanned (Space Wolves, Lamenters, Flesh Tearers etc. etc.), but the Adeptus Astartes would number, if the chapters were at full strength, 1,000,000 Adeptus Astartes. Now, it's worth remembering this is below the original strength they had during the Great Crusade, but not much.

 ChazSexington wrote:
As mentioned, Space Marines are fewer, but easier to replace.

Not easier, just faster.

Yeah, Eldar turn up easier because they use natural (as far as genetically designed species go) processes to develop themselves. Each soldier does the work himself.

 Formosa wrote:
surprised no one brought up the "billions that died" when the nids attacked iyanden, thank matt ward for that one

Why would a large Craftworld not have billions of Eldar on it?

They might be going extinct but they're still a power to be reckoned with. Even still they'd be outnumbered by pretty much any significant faction.

 ChazSexington wrote:
As mentioned, Space Marines are fewer, but easier to replace. The Eldar are more, but slower to replace.

 Melissia wrote:
There is, at most, several million marines. The Dark Eldar alone very likely number more than that, never mind the more numerous Craftworld Eldar (Dark Eldar have the equivalent of one moon-sized city, Craftworld Eldar have a few dozen moon-sized cities).

There are 1,000 Chapters, and while some are over strength (Black Templars), most are undermanned (Space Wolves, Lamenters, Flesh Tearers etc. etc.), but the Adeptus Astartes would number, if the chapters were at full strength, 1,000,000 Adeptus Astartes. Now, it's worth remembering this is below the original strength they had during the Great Crusade, but not much.

Are the Space Wolves undermanned?
I thought they were non-codex and therefore far larger than a codex compliant chapter- with 13 companies (12 active) at greater strength than regular codex companies?

Further- even if you just count veteran/battle/reserve companies and their captain, command squad and chaplain (assuming a 5 man command squad, not a ten man one) that is 932 men, plus 99 rhino drivers minimum.
The Chapter master willl have an honour guard, 5 men minimum, with a Boss chaplain plus any other chaplains/chaplains in training, not assigned to companies (say another 5 men minimum to be conservative). Then you'll have a librarius (say another 5 men minimum to be conservative)
That's 1047.
Then you add the scout company, which doesn't have a fixed size- can be over 100 scouts plus another 5 man command squad (they crew their own speeder transports though, IIRC)
You'd err on the size of caution here and have as many scouts as possible to actively build geneseed reserves and prepare for combat losses.

Then you remember that there are techmarines and a massive vehicle pool not attached to any company. The Ultras have 25 predator tanks, 12 Landraider variants and 45 other tanks which are not crewed by company marines.

Then you add the Astartes on-board ships- Though a company captain will be master of the fleet, in practice there'll be Marines commanding those battlebarges and cruisers directly- even in the Ultra Marines.



Estimated, a codex chapter at full strength with a healthy scout company might be 1500+ marines, with 800 serving as battle/reserve company 'battle brothers'

These are only the chapters who follow the Ultras organisational structure.

Index_Astartes: Codex Astartes wrote:Many Chapters, however, do not stick so
rigidly to the patterns laid down in the
Codex, either for organisation, tactical roles
or other processes

Many chapters, as a function of an estimated 1000. While the Fleshtearers have specific difficulties maintaining their numbers, if you were an independent organisation dedicated to killing horrible aliens and you decided to deviate from the normal number of men, would you decide to have more soldiers, or less?

There are also a small number of
Chapters that are vastly divergent from the
Codex, and owe almost nothing at all to it.

Small number, as a function of an estimated 1000. The example they give is the Space Wolves, who I believe are well over strength and the Templars come in here too, the largest chapter we know of (3000+).

Many of them are probably understrength due to casualties and the very slow/limited recruitment process (bottlenecked by geneseed availability too) so fortunately it is still reasonable to say that they end up at the total of one million that we are given literally everywhere.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
surprised no one brought up the "billions that died" when the nids attacked iyanden, thank matt ward for that one

Why would a large Craftworld not have billions of Eldar on it?

They might be going extinct but they're still a power to be reckoned with. Even still they'd be outnumbered by pretty much any significant faction.

Having Craftworlds with billions of Eldar is still virtually nothing on the galactic scale.

I have calculated in the past, an upper limit for the Imperium's population (i.e. a deliberate overestimate), based on GW given sources. The upper limit came out to 5 * 10^17, or 500 quadrillion people. Even if the Eldar numbered 500 billion, they would be outnumbered a million to one.

Having unbelievably low Eldar populations is an example of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScifiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale

 Ashiraya wrote:
Many of them are probably understrength due to casualties and the very slow/limited recruitment process (bottlenecked by geneseed availability too) so fortunately it is still reasonable to say that they end up at the total of one million that we are given literally everywhere.

The true size of Chapters is one of the lore's greatest mysteries, but even if there were two million Astartes (probably the feasible upper limit, even with the ambiguity), that's a tiny number.

40k Space Marines, while similar in scope to modern special forces, do not like to rely on non-Astartes support. So while Navy Seals might rely on the submarine forces, army Helicopters, air force drones, or marine artillery for support, in 40k Space Marines are closer to the Mobile Infantry of Starship Troopers, where everybody fights, and nobody (barring servitors and serfs) isn't a battle brother.

That quickly leads to a situation where you either lose battlebrothers to operate the armor, or have some supernumeraries around to do the driving, or more likely, a combination of the two. I doubt they have dedicated drivers for every single vehicle in the motor pool, but I'm guessing they have some, particularly now that GW has started modeling pilots and drivers in techmarine colors.

Personally, while I agree that chapters have more than 1000 marines at full strength, I don't buy the estimates that scrape 2000.

 =Angel= wrote:

Small number, as a function of an estimated 1000. The example they give is the Space Wolves, who I believe are well over strength and the Templars come in here too, the largest chapter we know of (3000+).

Space Wolves don't have a huge amount. The second largest Great Company is Ragnar's if I recall correctly who had just over two hundred. Their strength like lies at a little under 2000.

Grey Knights used to have about 3000 marines I think it was changed in one of the more recent Codexes to just 1000 like a standard Chapter.

Black Templar were reduced to pretty much standard Codex size too.

Iracundus wrote:Having Craftworlds with billions of Eldar is still virtually nothing on the galactic scale.

Yeah I know.That the Eldar still have such an impact on the galaxy is testament to their technology and foresight.

Still, some people struggle to perceive a species of billions as being a dying race.

 Polonius wrote:
40k Space Marines, while similar in scope to modern special forces, do not like to rely on non-Astartes support. So while Navy Seals might rely on the submarine forces, army Helicopters, air force drones, or marine artillery for support, in 40k Space Marines are closer to the Mobile Infantry of Starship Troopers, where everybody fights, and nobody (barring servitors and serfs) isn't a battle brother.

That quickly leads to a situation where you either lose battlebrothers to operate the armor, or have some supernumeraries around to do the driving, or more likely, a combination of the two. I doubt they have dedicated drivers for every single vehicle in the motor pool, but I'm guessing they have some, particularly now that GW has started modeling pilots and drivers in techmarine colors.

Personally, while I agree that chapters have more than 1000 marines at full strength, I don't buy the estimates that scrape 2000.

The “Who drives the tanks?” question has just gotten worse over time. As more and more vehicles get added to the motor pool, the numbers needed to crew them keeps rising. Even if you assume that you don’t have enough drivers for everything, the sheer volume of resources the marines keep gaining imply more divers. It’s not just the rhinos and odd pred/WW or two in support any more. But Stormtalons flying support, Stalkers providing ground based AA, etc. IIRC the old TOE in the 3rd ed codex for the Ultras put them near the 1,500 number. It would be higher now.

Someday, the Ultramarines will have more pilots and drivers than actual Marines (including Scouts).

Even if the 1000 chapters of 1000 marines is not exactly precise, it's still a ball park of 1,000,000 space marines. Let's say 1.5 million just because.

There are billions of Eldar, hidden away on their craft worlds, in the webway, or just slumming it in Vegas.

There isn't a comparison.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
40k Space Marines, while similar in scope to modern special forces, do not like to rely on non-Astartes support. So while Navy Seals might rely on the submarine forces, army Helicopters, air force drones, or marine artillery for support, in 40k Space Marines are closer to the Mobile Infantry of Starship Troopers, where everybody fights, and nobody (barring servitors and serfs) isn't a battle brother.

That quickly leads to a situation where you either lose battlebrothers to operate the armor, or have some supernumeraries around to do the driving, or more likely, a combination of the two. I doubt they have dedicated drivers for every single vehicle in the motor pool, but I'm guessing they have some, particularly now that GW has started modeling pilots and drivers in techmarine colors.

Personally, while I agree that chapters have more than 1000 marines at full strength, I don't buy the estimates that scrape 2000.

The “Who drives the tanks?” question has just gotten worse over time. As more and more vehicles get added to the motor pool, the numbers needed to crew them keeps rising. Even if you assume that you don’t have enough drivers for everything, the sheer volume of resources the marines keep gaining imply more divers. It’s not just the rhinos and odd pred/WW or two in support any more. But Stormtalons flying support, Stalkers providing ground based AA, etc. IIRC the old TOE in the 3rd ed codex for the Ultras put them near the 1,500 number. It would be higher now.

The 7th edition codex has made it very clear that air support, and in particular all of the new gunships, are flown by 7th company. Furthermore, I personally ascribe to a simple belief that a chapter can not field their motor pool AND have 1,000 pairs of boots on the ground. That pilots and drivers are already being accounted for either within the battle company, from reserve companies, or from techmarines. Outside of the extremely rare exception ie. Antaro Chronus, is there a single named example of a non-techmarine being assigned to the armory? I'm perfectly happy with Rhinos being driven by the squad they're carrying and predators and whirlwinds and such being manned by whatever strike force requisitioned them. It's been stated for years that marines have always had massive stores of gear, especially first founding chapters, far more than a chapter has the manpower to use. This is why it's easy to keep adding new gear, because it should be understood that there isn't a dedicated unit that is using it at all times.

As for starships, as has been seen in Emperor's Gift and Eternal Crusader, as well as many other examples of astartes starships, we see astartes vessels have normal human captains, but that these captains are outranked by any astartes they are transporting. However those astartes are already accounted for in whatever company they originated from. For example, just because a squad is on a frigate and the squad sargeant is considered the commanding officer of that ship doesn't mean they stopped being 3rd squad of 5th company or that there isn't a human captain who takes over for all the time they're not on board.

You know, Im just curious why they list Scouts in the 1000 Battle Brother limit, considering they aren't full Battle Brothers and a Marine could remain in the scout company for any length of time.

Just have more Scouts, exploit the loop hole.

 =Angel= wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
As mentioned, Space Marines are fewer, but easier to replace. The Eldar are more, but slower to replace.

 Melissia wrote:
There is, at most, several million marines. The Dark Eldar alone very likely number more than that, never mind the more numerous Craftworld Eldar (Dark Eldar have the equivalent of one moon-sized city, Craftworld Eldar have a few dozen moon-sized cities).

There are 1,000 Chapters, and while some are over strength (Black Templars), most are undermanned (Space Wolves, Lamenters, Flesh Tearers etc. etc.), but the Adeptus Astartes would number, if the chapters were at full strength, 1,000,000 Adeptus Astartes. Now, it's worth remembering this is below the original strength they had during the Great Crusade, but not much.

Are the Space Wolves undermanned?
I thought they were non-codex and therefore far larger than a codex compliant chapter- with 13 companies (12 active) at greater strength than regular codex companies?

Further- even if you just count veteran/battle/reserve companies and their captain, command squad and chaplain (assuming a 5 man command squad, not a ten man one) that is 932 men, plus 99 rhino drivers minimum.
The Chapter master willl have an honour guard, 5 men minimum, with a Boss chaplain plus any other chaplains/chaplains in training, not assigned to companies (say another 5 men minimum to be conservative). Then you'll have a librarius (say another 5 men minimum to be conservative)
That's 1047.
Then you add the scout company, which doesn't have a fixed size- can be over 100 scouts plus another 5 man command squad (they crew their own speeder transports though, IIRC)
You'd err on the size of caution here and have as many scouts as possible to actively build geneseed reserves and prepare for combat losses.

Then you remember that there are techmarines and a massive vehicle pool not attached to any company. The Ultras have 25 predator tanks, 12 Landraider variants and 45 other tanks which are not crewed by company marines.

Then you add the Astartes on-board ships- Though a company captain will be master of the fleet, in practice there'll be Marines commanding those battlebarges and cruisers directly- even in the Ultra Marines.

Spoiler:

If I was a chapter master, there'd also be squads and demicompanies dedicated not as battle or reserve companies but as ship defenders who would lead/defend against boarding actions.

Estimated, a codex chapter at full strength with a healthy scout company might be 1500+ marines, with 800 serving as battle/reserve company 'battle brothers'

These are only the chapters who follow the Ultras organisational structure.

Index_Astartes: Codex Astartes wrote:Many Chapters, however, do not stick so
rigidly to the patterns laid down in the
Codex, either for organisation, tactical roles
or other processes

Many chapters, as a function of an estimated 1000. While the Fleshtearers have specific difficulties maintaining their numbers, if you were an independent organisation dedicated to killing horrible aliens and you decided to deviate from the normal number of men, would you decide to have more soldiers, or less?

There are also a small number of
Chapters that are vastly divergent from the
Codex, and owe almost nothing at all to it.

Small number, as a function of an estimated 1000. The example they give is the Space Wolves, who I believe are well over strength and the Templars come in here too, the largest chapter we know of (3000+).

That's old. While I'm iffy on the sources, I was given the sources a while ago, and Index Astartes is old. The newer fluff has about 300 Space Wolves, if I remember correctly.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
surprised no one brought up the "billions that died" when the nids attacked iyanden, thank matt ward for that one

Why would a large Craftworld not have billions of Eldar on it?

They might be going extinct but they're still a power to be reckoned with. Even still they'd be outnumbered by pretty much any significant faction.

Because they have never had these numbers before, nor does the bad fan fic add to the eldar character, in fact it detracts from it, we have one of the smaller craftworlds (at the time of writing, prior to retcon) that has billions of eldar on it, that's not a dieing race, that's a race that could take loses to the face and keep coming, its just silly.

 Formosa wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
surprised no one brought up the "billions that died" when the nids attacked iyanden, thank matt ward for that one

Why would a large Craftworld not have billions of Eldar on it?

They might be going extinct but they're still a power to be reckoned with. Even still they'd be outnumbered by pretty much any significant faction.

Because they have never had these numbers before, nor does the bad fan fic add to the eldar character, in fact it detracts from it, we have one of the smaller craftworlds (at the time of writing, prior to retcon) that has billions of eldar on it, that's not a dieing race, that's a race that could take loses to the face and keep coming, its just silly.

How is it bad fanfic? They made them slightly more plausible by only having billions on one of the biggest Craftworlds.

 Formosa wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
surprised no one brought up the "billions that died" when the nids attacked iyanden, thank matt ward for that one

Why would a large Craftworld not have billions of Eldar on it?

They might be going extinct but they're still a power to be reckoned with. Even still they'd be outnumbered by pretty much any significant faction.

Because they have never had these numbers before, nor does the bad fan fic add to the eldar character, in fact it detracts from it, we have one of the smaller craftworlds (at the time of writing, prior to retcon) that has billions of eldar on it, that's not a dieing race, that's a race that could take loses to the face and keep coming, its just silly.

That's not what's meant by dying with respect to the Eldar. They're dying because there is a hard cap on their population equal to the number of soul stones. Without a soul stone, newly born Eldar immediately die from having their soul eaten by Slaanesh. And as soul stones are destroyed it permanently reduces the number of Eldar that can exist.