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Honestly I have yet to place Stormboyz on the field because I think they are going to be terrible. They take up the same spot as a Warbiker but they don't have Jink, 4+ armor, a good weapon or T5, However, they are half the price.

All told I am in the process of collecting 60 of these little buggers (I have about 35 right now) What I really want to do is field them in 3 massive blobs of 19boyz with a PK nob. That would be something like 645pts for 60 models that can move 12, run 2D6 and assault 2D6 with rerolls because of Ere we go and Waaaagh special rules. Going by statistics I will lose about 1/6th of my boyz by doing that (Dangerous terrain when you double use your jump pack) but I will still get the hammer of wrath because of the Ork formation bonus (if I roll high enough) but realistically who cares about a couple of S3 hits.

I want to run this with a Zhadsnark biker list

The other option for running my Stormboy themed army would be a completely different mix. Instead of Bikers the troops would be normal boyz packed into FW Gun Wagonz.

So same build for the Stormboyz (57 Stormboyz and 3 Nobz) And 5 units of Boyz. 3 Would be units of 9 Boyz with a Nob/PK, 1 would be a unit of 10 boyz with a Nob/PK the other would be a unit of 11 with a Nob/PK both in trukkz. The unit of 10 would be joined by a warboss with a PK and Da Finkin Cap so he could try and get Infiltrate as his trait or move through cover.


What do you guys think? are Stormboys worth bringing in a list like this to counter the current game meta? I know that Stormboyz are a sub-optimal choice when compared to Warbikes and what not but this list relies on model count and speed. In my experience to many lists are prepared for Jink and other lists that rely on cover saves.

What other options do orks have to counter the current meta?

What other options do orks have to counter the current meta?

Fun, dope ass models, and limitless conversion opportunities.

The FW Stompa does well against a few top tier armies that like to bunch up or have problems taking down Av 13 HP in mass. So...most competitive Tau builds and Necrons as well. And SW.

SM, Eldar, and Daemons just walk right over orks however. The stompa above isn't enough to beat the lists playing, just make it less one sided and a decent real game. Sadly, orks don't have a way of conquering SM or Eldar.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

What other options do orks have to counter the current meta?

Fun, dope ass models, and limitless conversion opportunities.

You forgot the best part. Forging the narrative! They lose all the time so they forge the narrative more than any other army.

3 units of eldar jetbikes wipe them out before they can move. Or, they can move once, and then are wiped out.

If the player doesn't have jetbikes, then large blasts take out massive chunks of stormboyz, and they will likely flee.

645 points just evaporated.

 JimOnMars wrote:
3 units of eldar jetbikes wipe them out before they can move. Or, they can move once, and then are wiped out.

If the player doesn't have jetbikes, then large blasts take out massive chunks of stormboyz, and they will likely flee.

645 points just evaporated.

This is spot on. Against that much S6 range weaponry a single unit is going to get mulched.

So do what orks do best, MSU......Do not give them rounds to shoot at you like that, with trukks and enough units you should be on his side of the board turn one with your entire force.

Play objectives and don't take expensive crap with orks, just drown them in units.

 sfshilo wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
3 units of eldar jetbikes wipe them out before they can move. Or, they can move once, and then are wiped out.

If the player doesn't have jetbikes, then large blasts take out massive chunks of stormboyz, and they will likely flee.

645 points just evaporated.

This is spot on. Against that much S6 range weaponry a single unit is going to get mulched.

So do what orks do best, MSU......Do not give them rounds to shoot at you like that, with trukks and enough units you should be on his side of the board turn one with your entire force.

Play objectives and don't take expensive crap with orks, just drown them in units.

thats 645pts tied up in 3 Units that move fast, the rest of the total is tied up in 50 more models in 5 separate units. So 110 models (not counting vehicles)

SemperMortis wrote:
thats 645pts tied up in 3 Units that move fast, the rest of the total is tied up in 50 more models in 5 separate units. So 110 models (not counting vehicles)

I'd like to hear how it turns out...but i would think you will find the other parts of your army do better than the stormboyz.

Ia8 has some nice tricks otherwise ask your opponent not to go all out in pwr lv

SemperMortis wrote:
thats 645pts tied up in 3 Units that move fast, the rest of the total is tied up in 50 more models in 5 separate units. So 110 models (not counting vehicles)

You've seen what scatbikes do, yeah?

your best bet with Orks is to max out on artillery. Use multiple CADs, take 1 hq and 20 grots per CAD, spend the rest of your points on kannons and kustom mega kannons. For HQ use painboys to give your guns FNP or megameks to give them invul saves and Slow+purposeful so they can move and shoot properly. Take 5 guns in each unit, 4 grots to each gun so you have 20 T7 wounds in each unit at a very fair points cost. With 80 grots per CAD (20 of them being objective secured) you can drown the opponent in models and still have a chance to actually kill some things. Leftover points are best spent on 5 or 6-model tankbusta units in trukks or lone TL rokkit deffkoptas.

Real News wrote:
your best bet with Orks is to max out on artillery.

Psst you know that playing Renegade guards is simpler, cheaper and more efficient right ; )

I don't think you need 3 mobs of 20 as you describe. 30 with a PK nob is he same cost as 15 bikers with a PK nob.

The counter is to stop playing orks and buy tau.

Orks have been shafted for way too long it makes me genuinely sad to see them in this state.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

What other options do orks have to counter the current meta?

Fun, dope ass models, and limitless conversion opportunities.

You forgot the best part. Forging the narrative! They lose all the time so they forge the narrative more than any other army.

I have been on a long hiatus. I came back and everyone says how orks are gak. but the last three games I have played I beat my opponent. Last game completely dominated and tabled a drop pod marine list. Im sure its beginners luck of some other luck but i havent seen where orks are all THAT bad.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

What other options do orks have to counter the current meta?

Fun, dope ass models, and limitless conversion opportunities.

You forgot the best part. Forging the narrative! They lose all the time so they forge the narrative more than any other army.

I have been on a long hiatus. I came back and everyone says how orks are gak. but the last three games I have played I beat my opponent. Last game completely dominated and tabled a drop pod marine list. Im sure its beginners luck of some other luck but i havent seen where orks are all THAT bad.

It really depends on what you're facing. SM vary wildly in power because they have units/combos that range from terrible (Basic SM spam non gladius) to amazing (Centstar).

But to give you an idea;
Eldar Scatbikes and Spiders wipe orks off the table. A scatbike typically kills ~ 3 orks per model unless they have cover. They kill about 1.33 bikes per model and have a 3 foot range with a step back. Competitive eldar easily can have 20 bikes, meaning they remove 60 orks per turn, or ~26 bikes per turn. That is without buffs like guide, doesn't include the wraith knight or the spiders. That's just the core troops. WG with Str D flamers are extremely difficult to charge as well. It's not unusual to see a competitive eldar list table orks by turn 3 or 4.

SW have TWC and their new unit that are stronger in melee than anything Orks can field, all while having better longrange shooting and powers. SW are Orks+2.

Chaos Daemons are similar to SW, being faster, better at CC, and having better powers. Seekers and daemonettes do serious damage. Orks have a game here but it's still heavily against them.

Necrons have wraiths in a decurion. The Stompa helps, but a unit of wraiths does way more damage to orks then they can do in return, and this doesn't include the destroyers and other units that soften the orks up. Tougher, Faster, and better CC/Shooting.

Tau have Riptide wing and just remove swaths of infantry every turn.


So against a competitive list from any of the stronger armies, Orks don't have many options. They are simply too expensive, too slow, too weak defensively, not enough offensive power unless on the charge (which they don't always get). They need to be redone, like Guard and CSM. I'm not sure what Orks need, but I'd like to see the following;
More shoots/TL everything. Orks are about more Dakka, and while BS 2 is fluffly it cripples the army. Orks should fire the most bullets or bang stuff together with more barrels so its considered TL. Basically, if orks get lucky they have a strong shooting phase just from the metal storm they produce, but you can't rely on it.

FnP. Orks are the poster child for this fluff wise and it would make them tougher. 5+ FnP across the board.

Possibly +1 strength though this would mean a point increase at this point. Orks are decent on the charge but quickly become weaker. You could make this tied to Choppas.
So Choppa = +1 Strength
Big Choppa +2 strength, -2 AP, Init 2
PK x2 str, Init 1, Armor Bane
That seems fair. It would make orks an army of volume of shooting but its inaccurate, really tough to remove swarm, and dangerous in CC if they get there unless you're an elite unit.
Currently though...its bad.

So to answer OP's question.. the only way to counter meta is to wait for a new codex? Something about that doesnt seem right.

I think spamming MANz with the bully boyz and battlewagons can put out enough dakka, mobileility and punch in CC can be QUITE effective. While I agree, the ork codex was completely BS in terms of not making any signifcant steps forward, and in some cases going backwards with bring the army up to the level of others (not necessarily into top tier). Some of the chnages from 5th to 7th were head scratching. Why remove all opportunity for an invulnerable save? mob rule? ramshackle? were these so OP they needed to be nerfed? Not in my opinion.

But this doesnt mean they cannot be a very strong force with the right general direction the troops (Player).

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
So to answer OP's question.. the only way to counter meta is to wait for a new codex? Something about that doesnt seem right.

I think spamming MANz with the bully boyz and battlewagons can put out enough dakka, mobileility and punch in CC can be QUITE effective. While I agree, the ork codex was completely BS in terms of not making any signifcant steps forward, and in some cases going backwards with bring the army up to the level of others (not necessarily into top tier). Some of the chnages from 5th to 7th were head scratching. Why remove all opportunity for an invulnerable save? mob rule? ramshackle? were these so OP they needed to be nerfed? Not in my opinion.

But this doesnt mean they cannot be a very strong force with the right general direction the troops (Player).

Sadly, that's exactly what it means.
MANz lack an invul save, which means in the current meta, they aren't very good. Grav weapons from a Centstar, for example, will carve them open. WG will also carve them open quite easily. Riptides in formation will rip them apart. Necron wraiths will rip them apart. TWC with hammers will destroy them. Daemons will destroy them.

Too many units in the game that are considered competitive make a mockery of 2+ saves. Keep in mind, terminators have 2+ and a 5++ and are still considered awful. You really need to be cheap, fast, long range, or have a 4++ or better to be survivable. TWC and Wraiths get a 3++. Daemons are cheap and all have invuls. All of these units will hit a unit of Manz like a trukk and plow right through.
Manz are resistant to Scat bikes and little else that is seen competitively. Everything else has rending, AP 2, Ignores Armor, or is Str D and has invul saves themselves, making them much tougher.

I strongly suggest you try out TWC versus MANz and see how it goes. The TWC really do roll through them like its nothing.

Your right. everything beat everything. Orks should literally never be fielded. why bother?

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Your right. everything beat everything. Orks should literally never be fielded. why bother?

In a competitive setting? Pretty much that's correct.
I'm not saying it's great, I have an ork army too which is the only army my brother will play, so he's essentially out, but such is the balance in 40k. In casual games they have an uphill battle but can still be fielded, but the "current meta" usually suggests more competitive choices.

They can do okay against some armies if they use the Stompa, which is one of their better pieces, but MANz are pretty bad if you look at the power dexes. If your meta is nids, guard, CSM and such, you'll be fine. If you're facing competitive eldar and SM...ask if you can proxy? Or keep banging your head, most Ork players don't care too much if they win or lose tbh

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Your right. everything beat everything. Orks should literally never be fielded. why bother?

Against fluffy lists they're great...CSM, Nids (non-flyrant), BA and DE will give orks a great game. IG is tough (for me anyway), but a good game.

Tau is the big bugaboo for Orks, but if the boyz get in, it's curtains for them. And Orks love drop pods. Free delivery! Usually the occupants can't mop us up enough to dominate like they do others.

But the OP asked about the current meta, which isn't any of these lists.