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After researching and thinking about it, I think I've decided what would possibly be the most powerful, cheesy army in 40k.

Primary CAD - Eldar
Allied CAD - Tau
Allied CAD - Necrons

What do you think of this?

Eldar.

At what points level? And why are you allying in Necrons of all things?

Eldar don't need allies to be number one. All you need are scat bikes, warp spiders and Wraithknights.

skycapt44 wrote:
Eldar don't need allies to be number one. All you need are scat bikes, warp spiders and Wraithknights.

True Chainz.

Do you not even know what super friends are?

This might be valid if all 3 factions weren't using CADs in the OP. If you're not using formations for Tau and Necrons, you may as well just put in more Eldar.

Simple, no-thought-required list I just made up, using 2000 points and Eldar CAD. Fairly few shenanigans, and no formations, but will beat out most other armies quite happily:

Eldar:

Farseer Skyrunner w/Singing Spear [120 pts]
Farseer Skyrunner w/Singing Spear [120 pts]

Windriders (x10) w/10x Scatterlasers [270 pts]
Windriders (x10) w/10x Scatterlasers [270 pts]

Warp Spiders [95 pts]
Wraithguard (x5) [160 pts]
Wave Serpent w/Bright Lance [115 pts]

Fire Prism [125 pts]
Fire Prism [125 pts]
Nightspinners (x2) [200 pts]

Wraithknight [295 pts]

[1,995 pts]

I feel a need to reiterate this, does op know what super friends are? Because they are more cheese than crons or tau

 Jaxler wrote:
I feel a need to reiterate this, does op know what super friends are? Because they are more cheese than crons or tau

Instead of asking twice, why not just tell him?

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
I feel a need to reiterate this, does op know what super friends are? Because they are more cheese than crons or tau

Instead of asking twice, why not just tell him?

Because I feel obligated to highlight how wrong it is to ignore imperium/space marines when talking allies cheap wolfies + all the special universal rule characters and invisibility = best list in the game. This isn't cheese, it's worse. it straight up breaks the game when you can konga line your unkillable super Death Star down the board.

If you want to cheese it to hell and back, just go mono-eldar and take the Craftworld Detachment with a Windrider Warhost and then buy as many wraith knights as possible through auxillary choices (Wraith Constructs).

Your opponent is liable to leap across the table and gouge your eyes out. If you want even more cheese, Go to the FW Eldar Book (Doom of Mymera or something) and field the 1 titan + 2 Wraithknight formation. You know something is cheese when the big-ass titan is considered A TAX.

 d00mspire wrote:
After researching and thinking about it, I think I've decided what would possibly be the most powerful, cheesy army in 40k.

Primary CAD - Eldar
Allied CAD - Tau
Allied CAD - Necrons

What do you think of this?

Oh it is always just so funny to think people still believe that the SPESS MUREENS are not top of the top tier alongside eldar.

Primary - Space marines formations
1-2 CAD - Eldar
GG.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
If you want to cheese it to hell and back, just go mono-eldar and take the Craftworld Detachment with a Windrider Warhost and then buy as many wraith knights as possible through auxillary choices (Wraith Constructs).

Your opponent is liable to leap across the table and gouge your eyes out. If you want even more cheese, Go to the FW Eldar Book (Doom of Mymera or something) and field the 1 titan + 2 Wraithknight formation. You know something is cheese when the big-ass titan is considered A TAX.

Were I the kind of person to do that I'd go for spamming CAD's because that ends up being cheaper as you don't have as many tax units and the 6" run isn't a huge bonus anyway.

Eldar, a number of different ways, but definitely Eldar.

Space Marines are a weak army that rely on ally formation psychic power gimmicks to rise from the dust.

Eldar are pretty much OP just by opening the codex.

Space Marines are a viable answer if the question is the most powerful list, but Eldar wins this question because pretty much their entire army is incredibly strong - even their absolutely weakest links (units like storm guardians and banshees, whose equivalents in other armies are utterly horrid) are solid units that can give most units in the game a run for its money, and it only goes up from there.

>No Space Marines

fail

I'd throw some Daemons just for the 5th spot.

pm713 wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
If you want to cheese it to hell and back, just go mono-eldar and take the Craftworld Detachment with a Windrider Warhost and then buy as many wraith knights as possible through auxillary choices (Wraith Constructs).

Your opponent is liable to leap across the table and gouge your eyes out. If you want even more cheese, Go to the FW Eldar Book (Doom of Mymera or something) and field the 1 titan + 2 Wraithknight formation. You know something is cheese when the big-ass titan is considered A TAX.

Were I the kind of person to do that I'd go for spamming CAD's because that ends up being cheaper as you don't have as many tax units and the 6" run isn't a huge bonus anyway.

It's less for the 6" run and more of to spam Wraithknights.

a normal cad would require 1 farseer and 2 Jetbike squads per Wraith Knight, while the Craftworld Host is a flat rate for a single Windrider warhost and up to 12 Wraithknights.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Space Marines are a weak army

I see someone has smoked a whole lot of warp dust!

No, I have not 'snorted a lot of warp dust'.

If you set down your average Space Marine army on the table, the way the lore presents them, the way GW presents them in army displays and so on and so forth, you'd have an army with perhaps a captain, a few tactical squads (maybe with rhinos), some assault squads, devastators, a dreadnought, maybe some terminators and/or a land raider, a captain...

And that is not powerful. I'd feel fairly confident taking on those with my Chaos Space Marines, and that is saying something.

I think people are forgetting that a formation patchwork aberration stitched together from centurions, Dark Angels and Space Wolves wolf riders is not the same thing as 'Codex: Space Marines.' This is like saying CSM are good because some competetive daemon lists ally in a mace prince with min cultists.

In order to make Space Marines compete with top armies like Tau and Eldar, you not only have to pick the absolute best of the codex (bikemasters, Centurions) but you also have to buff them with allies, formations and psychic powers (standalone the bikemaster will not do much damage for his massive cost and the centurions are horrifically slow and vulnerable without transports, ICs to tank and psychic support). Without all that support, my CSM Vindicator can easily deal with the Centurions while Thousand Sons can tarpit the bikemaster nicely, and don't you realise how absurd that fact really is?

Even the dreaded Skyhammer is a onedimensional gimmick that falls flat to Rhinos.

And that is just one particular list. Again, people are looking at this thread like it asked 'The Most Powerful List in 40k'. And then the infamous list with various SM chapters becomes a strong contender. But in terms of codices as a whole, the Space Marines codex is extremely unimpressive compared to, say, Eldar, who have no dud units whatsoever. Tournament netlists are just one small part of this game, guys. Most people do not run a super-optimised list of only the best units. And as soon as you don't, the Marine codex becomes weak much faster than the Eldar or Necron codex does.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Space Marines are a weak army

I see someone has smoked a whole lot of warp dust!

His analysis is correct. If it weren't, BA would be good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
No, I have not 'snorted a lot of warp dust'.

If you set down your average Space Marine army on the table, the way the lore presents them, the way GW presents them in army displays and so on and so forth, you'd have an army with perhaps a captain, a few tactical squads (maybe with rhinos), some assault squads, devastators, a dreadnought, maybe some terminators and/or a land raider, a captain...

And that is not powerful. I'd feel fairly confident taking on those with my Chaos Space Marines, and that is saying something.

I think people are forgetting that a formation patchwork aberration stitched together from centurions, Dark Angels and Space Wolves wolf riders is not the same thing as 'Codex: Space Marines.' This is like saying CSM are good because some competetive daemon lists ally in a mace prince with min cultists.

In order to make Space Marines compete with top armies like Tau and Eldar, you not only have to pick the absolute best of the codex (bikemasters, Centurions) but you also have to buff them with allies, formations and psychic powers (standalone the bikemaster will not do much damage for his massive cost and the centurions are horrifically slow and vulnerable without transports, ICs to tank and psychic support). Without all that support, my CSM Vindicator can easily deal with the Centurions while Thousand Sons can tarpit the bikemaster nicely, and don't you realise how absurd that fact really is?

Even the dreaded Skyhammer is a onedimensional gimmick that falls flat to Rhinos.

And that is just one particular list. Again, people are looking at this thread like it asked 'The Most Powerful List in 40k'. And then the infamous list with various SM chapters becomes a strong contender. But in terms of codices as a whole, the Space Marines codex is extremely unimpressive compared to, say, Eldar, who have no dud units whatsoever. Tournament netlists are just one small part of this game, guys. Most people do not run a super-optimised list of only the best units. And as soon as you don't, the Marine codex becomes weak much faster than the Eldar or Necron codex does.

This. Or you get BA.

 Ashiraya wrote:
No, I have not 'snorted a lot of warp dust'.

If you set down your average Space Marine army on the table, the way the lore presents them, the way GW presents them in army displays and so on and so forth, you'd have an army with perhaps a captain, a few tactical squads (maybe with rhinos), some assault squads, devastators, a dreadnought, maybe some terminators and/or a land raider, a captain...

And that is not powerful. I'd feel fairly confident taking on those with my Chaos Space Marines, and that is saying something.

I think people are forgetting that a formation patchwork aberration stitched together from centurions, Dark Angels and Space Wolves wolf riders is not the same thing as 'Codex: Space Marines.' This is like saying CSM are good because some competetive daemon lists ally in a mace prince with min cultists.

In order to make Space Marines compete with top armies like Tau and Eldar, you not only have to pick the absolute best of the codex (bikemasters, Centurions) but you also have to buff them with allies, formations and psychic powers (standalone the bikemaster will not do much damage for his massive cost and the centurions are horrifically slow and vulnerable without transports, ICs to tank and psychic support). Without all that support, my CSM Vindicator can easily deal with the Centurions while Thousand Sons can tarpit the bikemaster nicely, and don't you realise how absurd that fact really is?

Even the dreaded Skyhammer is a onedimensional gimmick that falls flat to Rhinos.

And that is just one particular list. Again, people are looking at this thread like it asked 'The Most Powerful List in 40k'. And then the infamous list with various SM chapters becomes a strong contender. But in terms of codices as a whole, the Space Marines codex is extremely unimpressive compared to, say, Eldar, who have no dud units whatsoever. Tournament netlists are just one small part of this game, guys. Most people do not run a super-optimised list of only the best units. And as soon as you don't, the Marine codex becomes weak much faster than the Eldar or Necron codex does.

I would have to say I agree with you. Space Marines are a weak codex until you take a number of squads equipped for different things. A stereotypical SM army at my FLGS would be two tactical squads, a captain, terminators, and a land raider. All the time. They simply aren't that powerful. In psychic powers the Eldar can beat them; in shooting the Tau severely outshoot them (and any other army for that matter). Space Marines are overrated, in my opinion. Let's be serious, SM and their equivalents (BA, DA, SW, GK...) are played because Space Marines are put across as superhuman and virtually invincible in the fluff, whilst in the crunch they are quite bad. You would have to play them quite well for them to be considered decent.

 Ashiraya wrote:
No, I have not 'snorted a lot of warp dust'.

If you set down your average Space Marine army on the table, the way the lore presents them, the way GW presents them in army displays and so on and so forth, you'd have an army with perhaps a captain, a few tactical squads (maybe with rhinos), some assault squads, devastators, a dreadnought, maybe some terminators and/or a land raider, a captain...

And eldar power level gets cut down if you take fluffy mix&match list.

But thing is when you consider strength of codex you go for MAX and ignore the fluff...

As a standalone codex, unit for unit and disregarding formations, Eldar are the strongest army.

When you incorporate the very best of the top 3 (Eldar, Marines, Tau) formations and all, it becomes a rock/paper/scissors match up.

However the vast discrepancy in power level when you compare an average Eldar list to one that incorporates a lot of allies to mathematically butcher it's opponents is extraordinary (Bark stars, Riptide wings supported by 30-60 Warp spiders, superfriends etc) .

Space Marine/Space WOlves/Imperium deathstars crush anything now with the insane buffs from the psychic powers they recently got.

The Eldar are now outclassed. Other than that Eldar and then Chaos Deamons and Necrons.

Tau is nearly irrelevant int he tournament scene due to the insane power creep.

Necrons are best without allies, since every ally prevents you from taking even more undercosted units with 4+++ or Wraiths.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Necrons are best without allies, since every ally prevents you from taking even more undercosted units with 4+++ or Wraiths.

Well it's pretty pointless to start comparing current rules to multi-edition backward...

Comparing "no allies" is pointless since allies are in the game. Might just as well "this would be most powerful if there wasn't WK's, librarian conclaves, taunars etc".

tneva82 wrote:

Well it's pretty pointless to start comparing current rules to multi-edition backward...

Comparing "no allies" is pointless since allies are in the game. Might just as well "this would be most powerful if there wasn't WK's, librarian conclaves, taunars etc".

Many gaming stores and groups do not allow the use of allies by a single player, and tournament rules place heavy restrictions on the use of allies and multiple detachments.

The players I've met don't use allies because it looks bad on the table and results in the game being less fun.

tneva82 wrote:
And eldar power level gets cut down if you take fluffy mix&match list.

Is that so? Run the kind of Space Marine list I talked about above against a fluffy Saim-Hann or Iyanden list and see how you fare.

The Eldar have no weaknesses. Even their weakest links are good and useful units. The Space Marine codex is a weak book with a few exploitable things, but those few things make up a small part of the whole codex.

tneva82 wrote:
But thing is when you consider strength of codex you go for MAX and ignore the fluff...

No, you rate the codex as a whole. Most people do not fight or use the minmaxed power lists people are fearing.

 Ashiraya wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And eldar power level gets cut down if you take fluffy mix&match list.

Is that so? Run the kind of Space Marine list I talked about above against a fluffy Saim-Hann or Iyanden list and see how you fare.

The Eldar have no weaknesses. Even their weakest links are good and useful units. The Space Marine codex is a weak book with a few exploitable things, but those few things make up a small part of the whole codex.

tneva82 wrote:
But thing is when you consider strength of codex you go for MAX and ignore the fluff...

No, you rate the codex as a whole. Most people do not fight or use the minmaxed power lists people are fearing.

I'm not sure if you can count full blown allies anyway. A lot of tournaments seem to cap allies, which limits the space marines but doesn't do much to the eldar.
I play a relatively competitive marine force (I only use GK as allies for their SC though) and while they are strong, it's hard to argue with my eldar being stronger. I can field a diverse force and still have a game against any of the other stronger armies while still feeling fluffy. BS 5 Aspect Warriors if I run Biel-Tan, WG with flamers in transports backed up by WK and cheap support platforms from guardians if I want Iyanden. Skimmers and scat bikes for saim-hann. Alaitoic might be the only one not doable anymore without their special ranger table, and tbh, I'm fine with that. They were annoying.

It's hard to decide a codex strength if the codex relies on questionable strategies since those are flagged during some tournaments or local games. FW, FW SH, Allies...for some reason I don't see formations getting banned often, not sure why.