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Can't forget about those fake clinics that ambush and browbeat scared women into making choices, thanks for reminding us whembly
Huh?
You said there are other providers and I stated there are. Fake PP clinics run by right wingers who browbeat women, quit being obtuse because we have had this conversation on the politics thread before.
Are you being intentionally hyperbolic, or is this "Fake PP clinics run by right wingers who browbeat women" a thing? Because you & I never discussed this.
Can't forget about those fake clinics that ambush and browbeat scared women into making choices, thanks for reminding us whembly
Huh?
You said there are other providers and I stated there are. Fake PP clinics run by right wingers who browbeat women, quit being obtuse because we have had this conversation on the politics thread before.
Are you being intentionally hyperbolic, or is this "Fake PP clinics run by right wingers who browbeat women" a thing? Because you & I never discussed this.
Its a very real thing, California even passed legislation against them for their deceptive and false advertisement
Basically they're clinics that advertised as alternatives to PP, but werent interested in actually helping women, they were more interested in forcing and shaming them into keeping their unwanted pregnancies to term. The kicker was that they were giving medical advice with no actually medically licensed professionals on the premises
Its a very real thing, California even passed legislation against them for their deceptive and false advertisement
Basically they're clinics that advertised as alternatives to PP, but werent interested in actually helping women, they were more interested in forcing and shaming them into keeping their unwanted pregnancies to term. The kicker was that they were giving medical advice with no actually medically licensed professionals on the premises
Can't forget about those fake clinics that ambush and browbeat scared women into making choices, thanks for reminding us whembly
Huh?
You said there are other providers and I stated there are. Fake PP clinics run by right wingers who browbeat women, quit being obtuse because we have had this conversation on the politics thread before.
Are you being intentionally hyperbolic, or is this "Fake PP clinics run by right wingers who browbeat women" a thing? Because you & I never discussed this.
Its a very real thing, California even passed legislation against them for their deceptive and false advertisement
Basically they're clinics that advertised as alternatives to PP, but werent interested in actually helping women, they were more interested in forcing and shaming them into keeping their unwanted pregnancies to term. The kicker was that they were giving medical advice with no actually medically licensed professionals on the premises
Its a very real thing, California even passed legislation against them for their deceptive and false advertisement
Basically they're clinics that advertised as alternatives to PP, but werent interested in actually helping women, they were more interested in forcing and shaming them into keeping their unwanted pregnancies to term. The kicker was that they were giving medical advice with no actually medically licensed professionals on the premises
And to make matters worse, by not actually providing abortions they wouldn't have been affected by the anti-abortion laws which states tried to bring in. So many of the legitimate abortion providers who also offer contraception and impartial advice would face closure whilst those kinds of places would be unaffected and be free to continue peddling biased and incorrect information.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
1. The man in charge of Christian pregnancy center Heartbeat International is named after Superman's dad.
2. 'Big Abortion' is a term some people use.
3. This guy is named Jor-El.
4. People are dicks.
5. JOR-EL.
I learned, by looking up Heartbeat Internationals website, that the final degree in the Catholic Church is Doctor of Sacred Theology, which in latin gives the letters STD
Also, none of their leadership has a medical or scientific background.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jasper76 wrote: Pretty sad that the Pro-Life movement's primary tools to achieve it's goals are now dupery and trickery.
What ever happened to simply trying to convince your opponents that they are on the incorrect side of the issue?
That doesn't really work when your opponent has the support of the vast majority of the medical field and the scientific basis to back up its arguments.
At that point your only options are to give up, or revert to "feelings" and trickery.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/08/10 17:05:39
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
jasper76 wrote: Pretty sad that the Pro-Life movement's primary tools to achieve it's goals are now dupery and trickery.
What ever happened to simply trying to convince your opponents that they are on the incorrect side of the issue?
Around my neck of the woods, both the pro-life/pro-abortion groups would bitch slap these people out of town.
Just be honest about the whole thing.
Here's how you convince your opponents:
Also, here's an ex-abortionist describing the procedures and his conversions from pro-choice to pro-life:
Spoiler:
TL;DR: what converted him was not the threats or crazy protestors and whatnot... it was the fact that he wanted kids of his own & and pro-lifer would see him as a patient and she'd proclaim her pro-life views and would pray for him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/10 17:13:38
jasper76 wrote: Pretty sad that the Pro-Life movement's primary tools to achieve it's goals are now dupery and trickery.
What ever happened to simply trying to convince your opponents that they are on the incorrect side of the issue?
Around my neck of the woods, both the pro-life/pro-abortion groups would bitch slap these people out of town.
Just be honest about the whole thing.
Here's how you convince your opponents:
Also, here's an ex-abortionist describing the procedures and his conversions from pro-choice to pro-flie:
Spoiler:
TL;DR: what converted him was not the threats or crazy protestors and whatnot... it was the fact that he wanted kids of his own & and pro-lifer would see him as a patient and she'd proclaim her pro-life views and would pray for him.
Oh boy a clip show where they pick mainly (I didn't watch it all the way through because it felt like a cherry picking propaganda video) people changing their minds
whembly wrote: Furthermore, it was the DEMOCRATS who blocked the funding for Zika... not Republicans.
Well gee, that seems like sort of a lie of omission, doesn't it?
1.) Democrats asked for 1.1 billion to prevent the spread of Zika.
2.) Republicans larded the bill up with riders such as: stripping $540 million from ACA funding, $107 from Ebola, a provision preventing the confederate flag from flying over federal cemeteries, restrictions on Planned Parenthood birth control and discussing Zika (which can be spread sexually!), exempts pesticide from clean-water rules for open water
3.) Democrats wound up spiking the bill
4.) Republicans asked why Democrats don't care about Zika
5.) Democrats introduced a clean Zika funding bill
6.) Republicans blocked it
But yeah, you only remember 3, because "they're both bad"
No.
The Democrat prioritized Planned Parenthood fundings over anti-Zika measures.
Simple as that.
“The first TV picture of an American woman bearing a child with a birth defect caused by this virus will be on [Democrats],” said Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas). “I wouldn’t want to be in their position.”
they're both bad
yes, they're both bad.
Democrats bad for blocking funding...
Republicans bad for telegraphing to hang the "child w/ a birth defect" around Democrat's neck.
You really will never admit when the R's are in the wrong, will you? It's a simple thing, just put a clean bill. Funding to fight zika shouldn't have to be weighed down by partisan bs. If they want that stuff, make a differnt bill, it's that simple.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/10 17:18:40
The people seem to be under the impression that just because it looks like a baby that it is capable of functioning as a baby in that video Whembly. If you told them that at 20 weeks (the development stage used in their shock video) there was no way for that foetus to survive out of the womb would they still have changed their mind?
A 2nd trimester foetus ranges from around 11 weeks to 26 weeks.
At 21 weeks and less (so the majority of the 2nd trimester) there is effectively zero percent chance of that foetus surviving outside the womb. At 24 weeks (the normal UK limit for abortion) there's around a 50% chance.
Those people are still being misled.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/10 17:21:17
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The people seem to be under the impression that just because it looks like a baby that it is capable of functioning as a baby in that video Whembly. They are also not telling us which point in the 2nd trimester that procedure is being carried out.
A 2nd trimester foetus ranges from around 11 weeks to 26 weeks.
At 21 weeks and less (so the majority of the 2nd trimester) there is effectively zero percent chance of that foetus surviving outside the womb. At 24 weeks (the normal UK limit for abortion) there's around a 50% chance.
Those people are still being misled.
Don't be silly... they're not being misled.
What you don't like is the emotional appeal to recognize that is someone's baby.
jasper76 wrote: We'd live in a better country if partisans did not corrupt bills related to the public safety with political riders. We should stop making excuses for this gak, on both sides...it's a very unsavory practice that we all sort of accept, but we don't have to just accept it IMO.
Call your Senators and Congressmen and tell them you want a clean, non-politicized Zika bill. They won't do gak in Congress if they think that their constituents don't care about the issue.
I'll be honest. its all nonsense. you are not going to suddenly get rid of mosquitoes with funding. Good fething luck with that.
Here's the education: wear OFF when outside. derp derp
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
What you don't like is the emotional appeal to recognize that is someone's baby.
They are being misled. By showing that it looks somewhat like a baby they know that people will think of it as one. However the fact remains that though it may look like one, it is still completely incapable of life outside the womb.
It is not a baby.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/10 17:28:57
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The people seem to be under the impression that just because it looks like a baby that it is capable of functioning as a baby in that video Whembly. They are also not telling us which point in the 2nd trimester that procedure is being carried out.
A 2nd trimester foetus ranges from around 11 weeks to 26 weeks.
At 21 weeks and less (so the majority of the 2nd trimester) there is effectively zero percent chance of that foetus surviving outside the womb. At 24 weeks (the normal UK limit for abortion) there's around a 50% chance.
Those people are still being misled.
Don't be silly... they're not being misled.
What you don't like is the emotional appeal to recognize that is someone's baby.
With that logic all false advertisement claims should be thrown out the window.
You're overlooking the fact that a majority of states have state constitutions that have stronger more clearly worded protections for the right of residents to privately own firearms. The federal supreme court can't change that.
Ferderal law trumps state law. Come on, this is basic stuff. Now I doubt that will happen, but state constitutions don't overule federal law. If they did slavery would still exist.
You seem to be very confused. The Federal Supreme Court doesn't make laws and only hears cases that fall under Federal jurisdiction. The Federal Supreme Court would only hear cases that involve State constitutions' protection of the right of residents to keep and bear arms if those State constitutions conflicted with Federal laws or the Federal constitution. Even if Congress repealed the 2nd Amendment the Federal government cannot repeal clauses in State constitutions. The only way Federal courts could infringe on firearm ownership clauses in State constitutions would be if the Federal govt passed new laws or a new constitutional amendment that was in direct conflict with the clauses in the State constitutions. That's how the system works.
The reason we don't have slavery today is because we fought the Civil War over it because the Confederate states seceded when they saw that there were enough votes in Congress to outlaw slavery at the Federal level and the Supreme Court was going to uphold that law when it opposed the states' laws that allowed slavery. To create an analogous situation with firearm ownership you would need Congress to pass a Federal law that outlaws private ownership of firearms which is never going to happen.
So your saying that if the political will is there to repeal the 2nd, congress wouldn't manage to make extreme gun laws? Becaus that's an incredibly stupid thing to say.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
What you don't like is the emotional appeal to recognize that is someone's baby.
They are being misled. By showing that it looks somewhat like a baby they know that people will think of it as one. However the fact remains that though it may look like one, it is still completely incapable of life outside the womb.
It is not a baby.
Horse gak. no baby is capable of life outside the womb on its own.
By this standard no one who is not completely self sufficient is safe. Wacking people because they can't take care of themselves or aren't developed to the standard of the state, well I do believe there was a government that agreed with you and your standard. Fortunately some guys got together and decided to intervene on their little eugenics party.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
What you don't like is the emotional appeal to recognize that is someone's baby.
They are being misled. By showing that it looks somewhat like a baby they know that people will think of it as one. However the fact remains that though it may look like one, it is still completely incapable of life outside the womb.
It is not a baby.
Horse gak. no baby is capable of life outside the womb on its own. By this standard no one who is not completely self sufficient is safe. Wacking people because they can't take care of themselves or aren't developed to the standard of the state, well I do believe there was a government that agreed with you and your standard. Fortunately some guys got together and decided to intervene on their little eugenics party.
I didn't say on it's own, Fraz, I said outside the womb. Below 21 weeks, no matter how well your ICU is equipped and excellent the doctors are, that foetus will not survive outside of the womb. We have no machines that are able to keep a 21 week old foetus alive outside of the parent. It is sad but that is the facts.
I find it quite insulting that you would suppose I was advocating some kind of eugenics argument based around determining who has the right to live and die, rather than just saying the facts about how viable premature births are, even with all the advances in technology and medicine.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2016/08/10 17:44:19
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
What you don't like is the emotional appeal to recognize that is someone's baby.
They are being misled. By showing that it looks somewhat like a baby they know that people will think of it as one. However the fact remains that though it may look like one, it is still completely incapable of life outside the womb.
It is not a baby.
Horse gak. no baby is capable of life outside the womb on its own.
By this standard no one who is not completely self sufficient is safe. Wacking people because they can't take care of themselves or aren't developed to the standard of the state, well I do believe there was a government that agreed with you and your standard. Fortunately some guys got together and decided to intervene on their little eugenics party.
I feel like we should quarantine this post as to hide the ignorance from the general population.
I don't think we should go down the rabbit hole of "Abortion" in this US Politics thread.
Regarding Trump and his calls for 2A people to take care of HRC:
I think it's either very clumsy wording from some one who's only real gift is public speaking, or it's a easily deniable comment showing he supports the murder of HRC.
Considering his previous comments about supporting people who assault protesters and the overt "hang her" chants from his crowds, I'm inclined to believe the it's latter.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
jasper76 wrote: We'd live in a better country if partisans did not corrupt bills related to the public safety with political riders. We should stop making excuses for this gak, on both sides...it's a very unsavory practice that we all sort of accept, but we don't have to just accept it IMO.
Call your Senators and Congressmen and tell them you want a clean, non-politicized Zika bill. They won't do gak in Congress if they think that their constituents don't care about the issue.
I'll be honest. its all nonsense. you are not going to suddenly get rid of mosquitoes with funding. Good fething luck with that.
Here's the education: wear OFF when outside. derp derp
Of course it won't suddenly solve the problem with no other effort. That's ridiculous. Good luck with solving literally any problem by just throwing large wads of cash toward something, apart from the problem of having excessive large wads of cash lying around your house like you're some sort of gold-standard-despising dragon.
Perhaps, however, anti-mosquito-funding could finally get this off the ground.
feeder wrote: I don't think we should go down the rabbit hole of "Abortion" in this US Politics thread.
Regarding Trump and his calls for 2A people to take care of HRC:
I think it's either very clumsy wording from some one who's only real gift is public speaking, or it's a easily deniable comment showing he supports the murder of HRC.
Considering his previous comments about supporting people who assault protesters and the overt "hang her" chants from his crowds, I'm inclined to believe the it's latter.
Agreed. I'd be much more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if there wasn't that seriously ugly rhetoric hanging around his campaign. Doesn't that one guy who said she should be put against a wall and shot work for him?
I don't like her all that much, but there's a line, and it's pretty disturbing to see it crossed so easily.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/10 17:43:58
BREXIT is conclusive evidence that in the Western world, ordinary people are fed up with the current power structures.
Or, BREXIT is evidence that voters are susceptible to demagoguery by dudes with stupid haircuts, voters are willing to play chicken on issues they don't really understand and assume someone on the other side is behind the wheel, and voters don't understand that there are no guaranteed do-overs on matters of high consequence.
You guys showed us what happens when the demagogues get what they want. They then proceed to flee from the problem they create and leave smarter people to deal with the mess..that is if the citizens are lucky.
Boris Johnson was a pretty good warning for American voters since we have one of our own so close to the Presidency.
Yep bang on, but leavers like to dress it up as some sort of revolution, [Ahem, Rule no.1 {redacted by Kilkrazy}].
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/10 21:04:11
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Ouze wrote: Everyone that's not a neocon is a leftie, I guess.
This is a thing. Conservatives have moved so far right, anything approaching the middle is Socialism and maybe Communism. Probably Communism. Any criticism is a sure sign of liberal bias. Even if you try to point out that such demand for ideological "purity" is ultimately self-defeating and isolating conservatives as extremists. It is hugely frustrating.
Things that will get you labeled as a liberal:
-Advocating religious tolerance for anything other than Christianity
-Pointing out that Christianity is not a persecuted group in the US
-Advocating any kind of government benefits (including VA)
-Advocating any kind of progressive tax that might require the upper echelons to pay more
-Stating that labor unions are not inherently evil
-Stating that corporations are not inherently good
-Having reservations about military expansionism
-Any kind of support for LGBT equality
-Any kind of concern over racism other than "reverse racism"
That's baloney yo.
Which part? That conservatives have moved to the far right? That conservatives have embraced ideological purity over dissenting moderate views? That these do not reflect actual conservative positions?
Republican positions are far to the right of where they prior to Goldwater. Eisenhower, for example, supported labor unions, social security, and progressive taxation. Here's some nice charts: http://voteview.com/political_polarization_2014.html So polarization is rocketing upward, so blame both parties right? Except, look at where the variation from centrism has skyrocketed. You guessed it- in the Republican party. At least one study indicated that legislators seem to think their constituents are more conservative than they are, which certainly lends credibility to the theory that gerrymandering and echo chambers are at work: http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/politicians-think-american-voters-are-more-conservative-they-really-are .
Ideological purity is a big mover in Republican politics- it is pretty much what the Tea Party is about and why the "GOPe", political elite, etc. have been targeted. It was pretty much Cruz and Trump's rallying call. Add what is that ideology? Well, I think my examples were pretty accurate- anti-union, anti-benefit, anti-tax, anti-Muslim-terrorism, anti-LGBT(they prefer "pro Family"), etc. The moderates largely get pushed aside to pander to "the base". An increasingly narrow base. Trump is just the latest iteration pulling it.
Fortunately, there has been pushback, but the party, and conservatism, is what it is. Until the Republicans, and conservatives, stop letting the extremists hijack the train, they are dooming themselves to being a regional player. As the aging, white, religious, population that they rely on dwindles, even the corporatists are jumping ship. It's funny that after the last 2 presidential elections, the GOP realized they had a problem, but the party decided to go all in on the fringe anyway. The best thing that could happen is that they lose in a record faction and start to put this behind them. Of course, the true believers will just say Trump wasn't conservative enough.....
Edited by Frazzled to move the topic back off abortion.
I feel like we should quarantine this post as to hide the ignorance from the general population.
I respect your ability to insult other popsters with seeming impugnity.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/08/10 18:00:15
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
jasper76 wrote: Pretty sad that the Pro-Life movement's primary tools to achieve it's goals are now dupery and trickery.
What ever happened to simply trying to convince your opponents that they are on the incorrect side of the issue?
That doesn't really work when your opponent has the support of the vast majority of the medical field and the scientific basis to back up its arguments.
At that point your only options are to give up, or revert to "feelings" and trickery.
Actually, there's quite a convincing Pro-Life argument that relies on secular ethics. I happen to believe that the argument is trumped by an inividuals right to make their own decisions about the fate of their bodies, but there is an argument that doesn't involve trickery, appeals to emotion, or religious hoo-ha.
3000
4000 
