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It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
It's obvious to you because you want it to be.
Anecdotally, nearly every Trump supporter I know is either racist, sexist, homophobic, or hates Muslims and it's usually a combination of those. I've said this time and time again on this forum and most people just fething ignore it: there are lots racist people in most areas of this country. I mean lots. In every position on the social ladder and political spectrum. I know life-long Democrats that refused to vote for Obama because they "won't vote for a n____r" and now only vote Republican. My uncle who spent a career working for the federal government thinks that the only thing Dylann Roof (the Charleston church shooter) did wrong was kill those people in a church. I work with a guy that wouldn't let his son go to a friends house because their parents "were fags." He was also incredulous to the idea that I would allow my daughters to be left in the care of their gay uncle. This guy also also thinks that sexual harassment or assault is perfectly fine; he asked me the other day if I had ever grabbed a girl's ass at a party because she was hot (I responded that I was raised to treat people with respect). I work with another guy that is "proudly homophobic," which were seriously his words. This same guy said he's pro-abortion to keep blacks from having too many kids. I know another guy thinks Muslims shouldn't be allowed in the US at all, regardless of their citizenship, because they're going to "take over" everything. This same guy has also said numerous times that he wished someone had assassinated the President already and hopes Hillary dies before November. I know another guy that is proudly racist. He told me that his daughter (whom like most racists, instilled it into her at a young age) had a friend over and was making inappropriate racial comments and the girl asked him if he was racist and he said, "Yes. Yes I am." He's fething proud of the fact that him and his buddies used to beat the gak out of black kids when they were young. Another buddy of mine pulls down his lower lip every time he mentions black people or makes monkey noises. These are people just in my sphere in suburban Northern Virginia, which more or less leans liberal and has one (if not the) highest per capita income in the country, not some Podunk town in the middle of nowhere (where my cousin lived in Georgia was exponentially worse).
However, the truth is that lot of racist people aren't outwardly racist, which is how most of them, like myself, were brought up. It's not polite to be racist to someone's face, that kind of stuff is reserved for the home. You're taught that there are exceptions to the rule, which made no sense to me when I heard my dad use every racist term under the sun but then we'd hang out with the black family that lived down the street from us. When I asked him about it, he told that they're "different." I was "taught" the difference between a black person and 'a n____r" and it took until high school for me to figure out that my family had a fethed up way of looking at people. Another thing that is common nationally and supported by research is idea that white people will say they believe in racial equality, but that stops when it comes to who they let into their neighborhoods, their homes, their families, their lives. Twenty-eight percent of white people think that homeowners should be allowed to discriminate when selling their home and 25% oppose their family members marrying a black person. Twenty percent of white people said their ideal neighborhood had only other white people, 25% said their ideal neighborhood had no blacks in it, and 1 in 3 wanted no Hispanics or Asians in their neighborhood. Even in my town of Leesburg, there was an uproar over school rezoning because kids from the more expensive (and white) areas would be attending a new school closer to the "poorer" (but not really, there's just more Hispanic people there) part of town. Most of them probably wouldn't flat out admit that's why they were upset, but there's no question that it was the underlying theme.
It seems to me that the a lot of people won't identify as racist (which ironically, is one of the most offensive things you can say to a racist) and a lot of people don't see themselves as racist... they just don't want non-white people in their lives, homes, jobs, schools, or neighborhoods.
So... what? Vote for Clinton?
Will you acknowledge that Hillary has her own racist past?
I guess you can argue that at the very least, she's apologized for some of them... unlike Cheeto Jesus.
Regardless... she's perpetually keeps violating the rule of holes.
EDIT: Furthermore, what's so bad about her statement was not that half of these people are "Basket of Deplorables"...
It's the fact that they're “irredeemable” and “not America.”
If you don't have a problem with that... then, I'd suggest you look in the mirror and think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/10 22:13:24
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
It's obvious to you because you want it to be.
Anecdotally, nearly every Trump supporter I know is either racist, sexist, homophobic, or hates Muslims and it's usually a combination of those. I've said this time and time again on this forum and most people just fething ignore it: there are lots racist people in most areas of this country. I mean lots. In every position on the social ladder and political spectrum. I know life-long Democrats that refused to vote for Obama because they "won't vote for a n____r" and now only vote Republican. My uncle who spent a career working for the federal government thinks that the only thing Dylann Roof (the Charleston church shooter) did wrong was kill those people in a church. I work with a guy that wouldn't let his son go to a friends house because their parents "were fags." He was also incredulous to the idea that I would allow my daughters to be left in the care of their gay uncle. This guy also also thinks that sexual harassment or assault is perfectly fine; he asked me the other day if I had ever grabbed a girl's ass at a party because she was hot (I responded that I was raised to treat people with respect). I work with another guy that is "proudly homophobic," which were seriously his words. This same guy said he's pro-abortion to keep blacks from having too many kids. I know another guy thinks Muslims shouldn't be allowed in the US at all, regardless of their citizenship, because they're going to "take over" everything. This same guy has also said numerous times that he wished someone had assassinated the President already and hopes Hillary dies before November. I know another guy that is proudly racist. He told me that his daughter (whom like most racists, instilled it into her at a young age) had a friend over and was making inappropriate racial comments and the girl asked him if he was racist and he said, "Yes. Yes I am." He's fething proud of the fact that him and his buddies used to beat the gak out of black kids when they were young. Another buddy of mine pulls down his lower lip every time he mentions black people or makes monkey noises. These are people just in my sphere in suburban Northern Virginia, which more or less leans liberal and has one (if not the) highest per capita income in the country, not some Podunk town in the middle of nowhere (where my cousin lived in Georgia was exponentially worse).
However, the truth is that lot of racist people aren't outwardly racist, which is how most of them, like myself, were brought up. It's not polite to be racist to someone's face, that kind of stuff is reserved for the home. You're taught that there are exceptions to the rule, which made no sense to me when I heard my dad use every racist term under the sun but then we'd hang out with the black family that lived down the street from us. When I asked him about it, he told that they're "different." I was "taught" the difference between a black person and 'a n____r" and it took until high school for me to figure out that my family had a fethed up way of looking at people. Another thing that is common nationally and supported by research is idea that white people will say they believe in racial equality, but that stops when it comes to who they let into their neighborhoods, their homes, their families, their lives. Twenty-eight percent of white people think that homeowners should be allowed to discriminate when selling their home and 25% oppose their family members marrying a black person. Twenty percent of white people said their ideal neighborhood had only other white people, 25% said their ideal neighborhood had no blacks in it, and 1 in 3 wanted no Hispanics or Asians in their neighborhood. Even in my town of Leesburg, there was an uproar over school rezoning because kids from the more expensive (and white) areas would be attending a new school closer to the "poorer" (but not really, there's just more Hispanic people there) part of town. Most of them probably wouldn't flat out admit that's why they were upset, but there's no question that it was the underlying theme.
It seems to me that the a lot of people won't identify as racist (which ironically, is one of the most offensive things you can say to a racist) and a lot of people don't see themselves as racist... they just don't want non-white people in their lives, homes, jobs, schools, or neighborhoods.
So... what? Vote for Clinton?
Will you acknowledge that Hillary has her own racist past?
I guess you can argue that at the very least, she's apologized for some of them... unlike Cheeto Jesus.
Regardless... she's perpetually keeps violating the rule of holes.
EDIT: Furthermore, what's so bad about her statement was not that half of these people are "Basket of Deplorables"...
It's the fact that they're “irredeemable” and “not America.”
If you don't have a problem with that... then, I'd suggest you look in the mirror and think.
So you think people who hate jews Muslims gays immigrants and what not are a okay? Because that is what you are insinuating
Don't forget Whembly, there are plenty here who are going to agree with her.
Edit: Nevermind... someone beat me to it...
But half? That's just dumb.
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
No, it's rhetoric.
The fact it's obvious to you that people are voting for Trump because they hate Hillary simply reinforces the idea that a lot of Trump supporters can't stand the idea of a woman getting above her station and running for president.
Trump is a massive US Prime Grade gak bag of lies, narcissism, cheating his taxes, cheating charities, cheating contractors, cheating desperate people wanting a degree from Trump University. Ultimately he is cheating his own supporters. The T shirts and baseball caps they eagerly buy are made in China. He won't build a wall. He won't provide jobs.
He is racist, misogynist, a serial adulterer, ignorant, arrogant, a failure in business, and fundamentally unpopular except with a group of people who for some reason find resonance in his "ideal" of racism, bigotry and xenophobia.
To say that neither Hillary nor the public should call this out smacks of political correctness.
Honestly, I don't think this was a gaff, I think it was planned. She's trying to split Trump's supporters. To separate the genuinely horrible from the "I'm voting him because he's the republican candidate" people. It's just a pity she didn't say something like "I should have been more politically correct." or something along those lines. It would have been perfect. Just showing exactly how hypocritical they really are.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Don't forget Whembly, there are plenty here who are going to agree with her.
Edit: Nevermind... someone beat me to it...
But half? That's just dumb.
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
No, it's rhetoric.
It's awful.
The fact it's obvious to you that people are voting for Trump because they hate Hillary simply reinforces the idea that a lot of Trump supporters can't stand the idea of a woman getting above her station and running for president.
Jesus KK... that's insulting. It's tactics like this where you're attempting to shut down the converstaion.
I mean, you might as well as use the old Obama playbook and just twist it: Any criticisms against Clinton is simply sexist and misogyny.
Trump is a massive US Prime Grade gak bag of lies, narcissism, cheating his taxes, cheating charities, cheating contractors, cheating desperate people wanting a degree from Trump University. Ultimately he is cheating his own supporters. The T shirts and baseball caps they eagerly buy are made in China. He won't build a wall. He won't provide jobs.
He is racist, misogynist, a serial adulterer, ignorant, arrogant, a failure in business, and fundamentally unpopular except with a group of people who for some reason find resonance in his "ideal" of racism, bigotry and xenophobia.
No argument from me there...
To say that neither Hillary nor the public should call this out smacks of political correctness.
So you don't think she was using such a wide brush... and that she was accurate, even though she's recanted her statement.
I think her statement was true and I feel pretty confident in saying that at least half his supporters are horrible people.
I wouldn't count people that will check the R box whatever the name may be, I'm not counting the "only voting for him because of Hillary" crowd, and I'm not even counting the "we have to protect the Supreme Court" crowd.
But his supporters? The people that voted for him in the primary? The people that go to his rallies? The people he is employing in his campaign? The people wearing his hats and shirts? Yeah, half of those fit the bill. At least half of them.
Don't forget Whembly, there are plenty here who are going to agree with her.
Edit: Nevermind... someone beat me to it...
But half? That's just dumb.
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
No, it's rhetoric.
The fact it's obvious to you that people are voting for Trump because they hate Hillary simply reinforces the idea that a lot of Trump supporters can't stand the idea of a woman getting above her station and running for president.
Trump is a massive US Prime Grade gak bag of lies, narcissism, cheating his taxes, cheating charities, cheating contractors, cheating desperate people wanting a degree from Trump University. Ultimately he is cheating his own supporters. The T shirts and baseball caps they eagerly buy are made in China. He won't build a wall. He won't provide jobs.
He is racist, misogynist, a serial adulterer, ignorant, arrogant, a failure in business, and fundamentally unpopular except with a group of people who for some reason find resonance in his "ideal" of racism, bigotry and xenophobia.
To say that neither Hillary nor the public should call this out smacks of political correctness.
I don't think demeaning generalizations are very helpful or apt. Trump has a commanding lead in South Carolina and it's unlikely Hillary wins that state. Nikki Haley, a woman, has been governor of South Carolina since 2011 so clearly voters in South Carolina are very comfortable electing a woman to be in charge so the fact that Hillary won't win the state can't be attributed to misogyny.
Don't forget Whembly, there are plenty here who are going to agree with her.
Edit: Nevermind... someone beat me to it...
But half? That's just dumb.
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
No, it's rhetoric.
It's awful.
The fact it's obvious to you that people are voting for Trump because they hate Hillary simply reinforces the idea that a lot of Trump supporters can't stand the idea of a woman getting above her station and running for president.
Jesus KK... that's insulting. It's tactics like this where you're attempting to shut down the converstaion.
I mean, you might as well as use the old Obama playbook and just twist it: Any criticisms against Clinton is simply sexist and misogyny.
Trump is a massive US Prime Grade gak bag of lies, narcissism, cheating his taxes, cheating charities, cheating contractors, cheating desperate people wanting a degree from Trump University. Ultimately he is cheating his own supporters. The T shirts and baseball caps they eagerly buy are made in China. He won't build a wall. He won't provide jobs.
He is racist, misogynist, a serial adulterer, ignorant, arrogant, a failure in business, and fundamentally unpopular except with a group of people who for some reason find resonance in his "ideal" of racism, bigotry and xenophobia.
BigWaaagh wrote: You're so off the point of my post that you're ridiculous.
Is your point that GJ should have known about Aleppo and had a response ready because it would be a discussion topic for any presidential candidate? I can understand that take but I also think that presupposes that every candidate and every campaign has the same priorities regarding the same issues. Outside of this thread I can't think of any discussion I've had with friends, family or coworkers wherein Aleppo came up and I can't recall the last time it was a predominate headline in any of the local papers. GJ is probably targeting voters with opinions and priorities similar to his own and if that means Aleppo doesn't get mentioned much on his campaign stops it's no wonder he didn't have much knowledge on it. I doubt GJ's campaign has much of a budget to work with so his staff may not be that good and he's certainly not used to a lot of media attention and sure doesn't shine in the spotlight. I can think of plenty of issues that would be a higher priority for voters and likely Libertarian voters than Aleppo so I don't see the value in being upset that GJ isnt the polished politician policy wonk that nobody ever claimed he was.
Had a response ready? He had a response ready and it was "What is Aleppo?" There's simply no issue here. For a POTUS candidate of any ilk, that is an unacceptable answer. Don't know? Get out of the race. Want to focus on other more constituent relevant issues? Go back to being a governor and leave the big leagues, that have big issues to grapple with, to the big boys.
Also, he's a POTUS candidate, not you, your family or your buddies, so that's an absurd comment. If you and the water cooler gang don't talk about Federal Reserve monetary policy, totally fine, but if you're being nominated for President of the Federal Reserve, I'd expect something more on the subject than "What is...?" Unacceptable, regardless of party affiliation. The Syrian Civil War, of which Aleppo is the face, touches on just about every point of debate in this POTUS election. Sorry, once again, but that level of cluelessness at this level of politics is unacceptable and frankly, dangerous. Quit making excuses for his lack of qualification.
The fate of Aleppo isn't going to have an impact on the election at all. It literally doesn't have the ability to alter the election in any meaningful way. If the entire population of Aleppo died overnight or got airlifted and resettled in Detroit tomorrow it wouldn't stop the war or depose Assad. Your ascribing a leve of importance to the city that is hyperbolic. It's a trending hashtag of the moment. In a few weeks/months people will forget about it but Syria will still be one giant humanitarian crisis we'll just be too distracted by the latest shiny object in the 24 hour news cycle spotlight to care anymore.
Will you acknowledge that Hillary has her own racist past?
You mean this sort of thing? The article leads with "liberal media", goes on a conservative diatribe, and all its links proc my pop-up blockers and anti-malware software.
And the Breitbart story isn't any better. Indeed, Breibart itself procs my pop-up blockers and anti-malware software.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
I mean, you might as well as use the old Obama playbook and just twist it: Any criticisms against Clinton is simply sexist and misogyny.
That's the (incorrect) conservative take on the Obama playbook, largely advanced by conservative media outlets. The "You only like him because he's black!" line has been turned into "You're just a white knight!" Both were wrong, and both were desperate.
Not in the US system. In the US system a third national party would probably create more gerrymandering and, because it would almost certainly be the Libertarians, lead to more conservative losses. This would only serve to further alienate conservative voters as many of them would turn to the Libertarians due to economics while still carrying socially conservative beliefs.
Right now the only national voices heard on several important issues are the two major parties that perpetuate the false narrative that everything is binary, that every issue only has 2 acceptable positions to take and that those two positions have to diametrically oppose each other.
That isn't the narrative either Party has created on issues which are important at the national level and, in most cases, they actually are binary.
Current defense spending should continue v. Less defense spending should occur. Medicare/Medicaid should be privatized v. No it shouldn't be. The IRS should be disbanded v. No it shouldn't be. Etc.
Libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal so if they gain membership by attracting conservative defectors from the Republican Party it puts more conservatives on the right side ( ugh sorry no pun intended) of social issues like gay marriage and public bathrooms which is a good thing.
You're still framing the issues through the binary 2 party lens. Do we increase defense spending? Is an oversimplification that hides the real issue, are we properly budgeting for defense? We're not so the issue is how do spend smarter and more efficiently on defense which isn't a problem with a binary solution set. Same with Medicare, we need to find the best solution to making sure Medicare is utilized and funded in the best way possible high isn't a simple privatize the whole thing yes or no issue. Again same with the IRS, the problem isn't the existence of the IRS the problem is we have a bloated overly complex tax system that gets twisted into a mechanism of social engineering instead of simply being the most efficient way to raise the necessary revenue to fund the government. What is the best way for the govt to levy taxes? Tax income? Property? Usage? Sales? As a corollary what is the amount of revenue the government needs? When we dumb issues down to simple yes or no questions we do the electorate and the country a disservice. The driving factor in this oversimplification are the two parties because they want only 2 answers and they want you to pick theirs because the other Party's answer is wrong and will destroy everything.
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
It's obvious to you because you want it to be.
Anecdotally, nearly every Trump supporter I know is either racist, sexist, homophobic, or hates Muslims and it's usually a combination of those. I've said this time and time again on this forum and most people just fething ignore it: there are lots racist people in most areas of this country. I mean lots. In every position on the social ladder and political spectrum. I know life-long Democrats that refused to vote for Obama because they "won't vote for a n____r" and now only vote Republican. My uncle who spent a career working for the federal government thinks that the only thing Dylann Roof (the Charleston church shooter) did wrong was kill those people in a church. I work with a guy that wouldn't let his son go to a friends house because their parents "were fags." He was also incredulous to the idea that I would allow my daughters to be left in the care of their gay uncle. This guy also also thinks that sexual harassment or assault is perfectly fine; he asked me the other day if I had ever grabbed a girl's ass at a party because she was hot (I responded that I was raised to treat people with respect). I work with another guy that is "proudly homophobic," which were seriously his words. This same guy said he's pro-abortion to keep blacks from having too many kids. I know another guy thinks Muslims shouldn't be allowed in the US at all, regardless of their citizenship, because they're going to "take over" everything. This same guy has also said numerous times that he wished someone had assassinated the President already and hopes Hillary dies before November. I know another guy that is proudly racist. He told me that his daughter (whom like most racists, instilled it into her at a young age) had a friend over and was making inappropriate racial comments and the girl asked him if he was racist and he said, "Yes. Yes I am." He's fething proud of the fact that him and his buddies used to beat the gak out of black kids when they were young. Another buddy of mine pulls down his lower lip every time he mentions black people or makes monkey noises. These are people just in my sphere in suburban Northern Virginia, which more or less leans liberal and has one (if not the) highest per capita income in the country, not some Podunk town in the middle of nowhere (where my cousin lived in Georgia was exponentially worse).
However, the truth is that lot of racist people aren't outwardly racist, which is how most of them, like myself, were brought up. It's not polite to be racist to someone's face, that kind of stuff is reserved for the home. You're taught that there are exceptions to the rule, which made no sense to me when I heard my dad use every racist term under the sun but then we'd hang out with the black family that lived down the street from us. When I asked him about it, he told that they're "different." I was "taught" the difference between a black person and 'a n____r" and it took until high school for me to figure out that my family had a fethed up way of looking at people. Another thing that is common nationally and supported by research is idea that white people will say they believe in racial equality, but that stops when it comes to who they let into their neighborhoods, their homes, their families, their lives. Twenty-eight percent of white people think that homeowners should be allowed to discriminate when selling their home and 25% oppose their family members marrying a black person. Twenty percent of white people said their ideal neighborhood had only other white people, 25% said their ideal neighborhood had no blacks in it, and 1 in 3 wanted no Hispanics or Asians in their neighborhood. Even in my town of Leesburg, there was an uproar over school rezoning because kids from the more expensive (and white) areas would be attending a new school closer to the "poorer" (but not really, there's just more Hispanic people there) part of town. Most of them probably wouldn't flat out admit that's why they were upset, but there's no question that it was the underlying theme.
It seems to me that the a lot of people won't identify as racist (which ironically, is one of the most offensive things you can say to a racist) and a lot of people don't see themselves as racist... they just don't want non-white people in their lives, homes, jobs, schools, or neighborhoods.
Don't forget Whembly, there are plenty here who are going to agree with her.
Edit: Nevermind... someone beat me to it...
But half? That's just dumb.
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
No, it's rhetoric.
The fact it's obvious to you that people are voting for Trump because they hate Hillary simply reinforces the idea that a lot of Trump supporters can't stand the idea of a woman getting above her station and running for president.
Trump is a massive US Prime Grade gak bag of lies, narcissism, cheating his taxes, cheating charities, cheating contractors, cheating desperate people wanting a degree from Trump University. Ultimately he is cheating his own supporters. The T shirts and baseball caps they eagerly buy are made in China. He won't build a wall. He won't provide jobs.
He is racist, misogynist, a serial adulterer, ignorant, arrogant, a failure in business, and fundamentally unpopular except with a group of people who for some reason find resonance in his "ideal" of racism, bigotry and xenophobia.
To say that neither Hillary nor the public should call this out smacks of political correctness.
It's funny to me that nobody is even bothering to bash Trump's policies (probably because nobody in this thread has actually read his policies, not that I can blame you, what with Trump's painfully crazy rhetoric). You're just pulling out social justice buzzwords to bash his character, rather than saying "this, that, and that are all crappy policies to support, so don't support Trump." You heavily imply that Clinton's supporters are all the rational Progressives, while Trump's supporters are all simply racist, bigoted, homophobic, Islamaphobic nutjobs. It amazes me that the supposed "rational" ones don't even bother with rational arguments, and jump straight to what amounts to "hate Trump, or your a bad person."
While there are certainly many people who support Trump because of their xenophobic or racist attitudes, I highly doubt they comprise a majority of his voters, especially since, as far as I know, only about 13% of Americans express any dislike to such fundamentally anti-racist concepts as interracial marriage (as of 2013). Instead of Trump supporters all being racist, there are undoubtedly a significant percentage of Trump supporters who had their interest piqued and actually read his positions, and find themselves in agreement with more of his positions than Hillary's positions (for example, Trump's plan to support coal in the short term in order to prevent damage to the US economy and maintain middle class standard of living), or simply look at Hillary's track record and say," at least Trump is an unknown entity, Hillary is somebody we KNOW is a blatant liar, and is guilty of gross negligence."
Personally, I dislike Trump, especially his flippant attitude, but he at least has a somewhat better track record than Hillary. Indeed, I doubt that he agrees with half of the rhetoric that spews out of his mouth (I believe that he said in the mid-nineties that, were he to run for president, he would run as Republican because Republicans are the most gullible/stupid voter base in the US, though I may be mistaken), he strikes me as more of a demagogue than a standard Politician. He is using the racists, xenophobes, etc. (in other words, members of the Regressive Right) to boost his constituency, and get free advertising in the election; whether or not he's actually going to stick to his promises (extremely doubtful) upon being elected is, obviously, up for debate (the great wall of MURICA is probably the most amusing concept I've heard come from a candidate to date). Were I pressed to vote on the election, my choice between the two candidates would be Trump, for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the fact he doesn't support certain Marxist ideologies, or increased government power in areas such as education.
I'm going to reiterate this: Trump is a demagogue, not a standard politician. However, he is no more dangerous, imho, than, say, Hillary Clinton would be in office. We have a system of checks and balances in place, in the US government, specifically to prevent one horrible leader from wrecking the whole system. Hillary plans to continue Barrack Obama's push for increased Socialist policies in the US (free college education springs to mind, as does Socialized health care), which is something that I, as somebody who believes wholeheartedly in Capitalism (not that the US has true free-market Capitalism in any sense of the word), disagree with as both a matter of principle and a means of preventing tyranny (it should be noted that I am wholely aware that what I consider to be socialism is likely very different to what any Europeans on here consider to be Socialism, especially since US Socialist policies are extremely mild in comparison to, say, Socialized housing). Trump, as someone resembling a Capitalist, is always going to have more appeal for me than anybody pushing for Socialist programmes, simply due to the fact that increased reliance upon the State to provide for the people helps to pave the way for tyranny. As far as I am concerned, should Trump prove to be an extremely problematic President, both the Right and the Left will unite against him, and prevent him from doing more than minor harm to the US, and, as far as I'm concerned, that is better than almost certain harm coming from Hillary's proposed policies.
The fact it's obvious to you that people are voting for Trump because they hate Hillary simply reinforces the idea that a lot of Trump supporters can't stand the idea of a woman getting above her station and running for president
Additionally, this sort of radical feminist rhetoric hardly reinforces Hillary's position. It's actually amazing the amount of people that vote for Hillary simply due to the fact that she's a woman (much like the staggering amount of people who voted for Obama simply due to the fact that he was black). I had honestly thought that America was long past such blatant sexism, but I suppose that I was incorrect in that assumption, though I suppose that I really shouldn't be surprised that people, specifically Regressive Leftists, would vote for a candidate based upon such variables as sex or race, rather than policy. Seems as if no Political group is immune to the Regressives.
The reason people hate Hillary is because she has repeatedly, blatantly, poorly lied to the American people, been proven guilty of negligent behavior regarding classified information, and failed spectacularly to enact any kind of real positive change during her time as Secretary of State - not to mention the innumerable accusations of corruption leveled at her due to her use of her status as Secretary of State to garner hundreds of millions in donations to the Clinton foundation. There are legitimate reasons to dislike Hillary, much like there are legitimate reasons to dislike Trump - stop oversimplifying the issue.
Are you really claiming that Trump has had more successes than Clinton with a straight face? Trump is notorious for failed ventures. If he had invested the money he inherited in the stock market, he would have more of it than he does now.
skyth wrote: Are you really claiming that Trump has had more successes than Clinton with a straight face? Trump is notorious for failed ventures. If he had invested the money he inherited in the stock market, he would have more of it than he does now.
I made no such claim. I simply stated that he had a better track record, which is, of course, relative, as what I consider to be "better" might be completely different from what you consider to be better.
Name me one consistent policy he has. Not a slogan, not a motto, one consistent actual policy that is spelled out. He can't stay on a single position on anything for a week, and he frequently changes his policy on things at least once during a single speech. His wall, immigration, trade deals, Muslims, military, ISIS...what's his actual policy?
If slogans count as policy for people, then I guess they are the voters that Trump targets.
skyth wrote: Are you really claiming that Trump has had more successes than Clinton with a straight face? Trump is notorious for failed ventures. If he had invested the money he inherited in the stock market, he would have more of it than he does now.
I made no such claim. I simply stated that he had a better track record, which is, of course, relative, as what I consider to be "better" might be completely different from what you consider to be better.
So his failures as a businessman, his scam of a univeristy, scamming hard working people out of money by not paying them, and bribing officials is a better track record? And that isn't being a troll?
d-usa wrote: Name me one consistent policy he has. Not a slogan, not a motto, one consistent actual policy that is spelled out. He can't stay on a single position on anything for a week, and he frequently changes his policy on things at least once during a single speech. His wall, immigration, trade deals, Muslims, military, ISIS...what's his actual policy?
If slogans count as policy for people, then I guess they are the voters that Trump targets.
Prioritizing the US economy over preventing climate change (such as expanding US oil exploitation in Alaska) for one. Not something I agree with in the least mind you, but still a consistent policy.
Repealing Obamacare and instituting a more Capitalist health care system is another one of his policies. Personally, I agree with this wholeheartedly, as our current semi-socialized health care is garbage, and I would prefer not to further increase everyday reliance upon the State.
d-usa wrote: Name me one consistent policy he has. Not a slogan, not a motto, one consistent actual policy that is spelled out. He can't stay on a single position on anything for a week, and he frequently changes his policy on things at least once during a single speech. His wall, immigration, trade deals, Muslims, military, ISIS...what's his actual policy?
If slogans count as policy for people, then I guess they are the voters that Trump targets.
Prioritizing the US economy over preventing climate change (such as expanding US oil exploitation in Alaska) for one. Not something I agree with in the least mind you, but still a consistent policy.
Repealing Obamacare and instituting a more Capitalist health care system is another one of his policies. Personally, I agree with this wholeheartedly, as our current semi-socialized health care is garbage, and I would prefer not to further increase everyday reliance upon the State.
And what is his actually policy to do any of this?
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
It's obvious to you because you want it to be.
Anecdotally, nearly every Trump supporter I know is either racist, sexist, homophobic, or hates Muslims and it's usually a combination of those. I've said this time and time again on this forum and most people just fething ignore it: there are lots racist people in most areas of this country. I mean lots. In every position on the social ladder and political spectrum. I know life-long Democrats that refused to vote for Obama because they "won't vote for a n____r" and now only vote Republican. My uncle who spent a career working for the federal government thinks that the only thing Dylann Roof (the Charleston church shooter) did wrong was kill those people in a church. I work with a guy that wouldn't let his son go to a friends house because their parents "were fags." He was also incredulous to the idea that I would allow my daughters to be left in the care of their gay uncle. This guy also also thinks that sexual harassment or assault is perfectly fine; he asked me the other day if I had ever grabbed a girl's ass at a party because she was hot (I responded that I was raised to treat people with respect). I work with another guy that is "proudly homophobic," which were seriously his words. This same guy said he's pro-abortion to keep blacks from having too many kids. I know another guy thinks Muslims shouldn't be allowed in the US at all, regardless of their citizenship, because they're going to "take over" everything. This same guy has also said numerous times that he wished someone had assassinated the President already and hopes Hillary dies before November. I know another guy that is proudly racist. He told me that his daughter (whom like most racists, instilled it into her at a young age) had a friend over and was making inappropriate racial comments and the girl asked him if he was racist and he said, "Yes. Yes I am." He's fething proud of the fact that him and his buddies used to beat the gak out of black kids when they were young. Another buddy of mine pulls down his lower lip every time he mentions black people or makes monkey noises. These are people just in my sphere in suburban Northern Virginia, which more or less leans liberal and has one (if not the) highest per capita income in the country, not some Podunk town in the middle of nowhere (where my cousin lived in Georgia was exponentially worse).
However, the truth is that lot of racist people aren't outwardly racist, which is how most of them, like myself, were brought up. It's not polite to be racist to someone's face, that kind of stuff is reserved for the home. You're taught that there are exceptions to the rule, which made no sense to me when I heard my dad use every racist term under the sun but then we'd hang out with the black family that lived down the street from us. When I asked him about it, he told that they're "different." I was "taught" the difference between a black person and 'a n____r" and it took until high school for me to figure out that my family had a fethed up way of looking at people. Another thing that is common nationally and supported by research is idea that white people will say they believe in racial equality, but that stops when it comes to who they let into their neighborhoods, their homes, their families, their lives. Twenty-eight percent of white people think that homeowners should be allowed to discriminate when selling their home and 25% oppose their family members marrying a black person. Twenty percent of white people said their ideal neighborhood had only other white people, 25% said their ideal neighborhood had no blacks in it, and 1 in 3 wanted no Hispanics or Asians in their neighborhood. Even in my town of Leesburg, there was an uproar over school rezoning because kids from the more expensive (and white) areas would be attending a new school closer to the "poorer" (but not really, there's just more Hispanic people there) part of town. Most of them probably wouldn't flat out admit that's why they were upset, but there's no question that it was the underlying theme.
It seems to me that the a lot of people won't identify as racist (which ironically, is one of the most offensive things you can say to a racist) and a lot of people don't see themselves as racist... they just don't want non-white people in their lives, homes, jobs, schools, or neighborhoods.
Don't forget Whembly, there are plenty here who are going to agree with her.
Edit: Nevermind... someone beat me to it...
But half? That's just dumb.
It's obvious to me that the overwhelming majority of the people who plan to vote for Trump in this country, simply can’t stand HRC. Many of those people supported other candidates in the primary. They have simply decided that what they’re left with is better than HRC.
No, it's rhetoric.
The fact it's obvious to you that people are voting for Trump because they hate Hillary simply reinforces the idea that a lot of Trump supporters can't stand the idea of a woman getting above her station and running for president.
Trump is a massive US Prime Grade gak bag of lies, narcissism, cheating his taxes, cheating charities, cheating contractors, cheating desperate people wanting a degree from Trump University. Ultimately he is cheating his own supporters. The T shirts and baseball caps they eagerly buy are made in China. He won't build a wall. He won't provide jobs.
He is racist, misogynist, a serial adulterer, ignorant, arrogant, a failure in business, and fundamentally unpopular except with a group of people who for some reason find resonance in his "ideal" of racism, bigotry and xenophobia.
To say that neither Hillary nor the public should call this out smacks of political correctness.
It's funny to me that nobody is even bothering to bash Trump's policies (probably because nobody in this thread has actually read his policies, not that I can blame you, what with Trump's painfully crazy rhetoric). You're just pulling out social justice buzzwords to bash his character, rather than saying "this, that, and that are all crappy policies to support, so don't support Trump." You heavily imply that Clinton's supporters are all the rational Progressives, while Trump's supporters are all simply racist, bigoted, homophobic, Islamaphobic nutjobs. It amazes me that the supposed "rational" ones don't even bother with rational arguments, and jump straight to what amounts to "hate Trump, or your a bad person."
While there are certainly many people who support Trump because of their xenophobic or racist attitudes, I highly doubt they comprise a majority of his voters, especially since, as far as I know, only about 13% of Americans express any dislike to such fundamentally anti-racist concepts as interracial marriage (as of 2013). Instead of Trump supporters all being racist, there are undoubtedly a significant percentage of Trump supporters who had their interest piqued and actually read his positions, and find themselves in agreement with more of his positions than Hillary's positions (for example, Trump's plan to support coal in the short term in order to prevent damage to the US economy and maintain middle class standard of living), or simply look at Hillary's track record and say," at least Trump is an unknown entity, Hillary is somebody we KNOW is a blatant liar, and is guilty of gross negligence."
Personally, I dislike Trump, especially his flippant attitude, but he at least has a somewhat better track record than Hillary. Indeed, I doubt that he agrees with half of the rhetoric that spews out of his mouth (I believe that he said in the mid-nineties that, were he to run for president, he would run as Republican because Republicans are the most gullible/stupid voter base in the US, though I may be mistaken), he strikes me as more of a demagogue than a standard Politician. He is using the racists, xenophobes, etc. (in other words, members of the Regressive Right) to boost his constituency, and get free advertising in the election; whether or not he's actually going to stick to his promises (extremely doubtful) upon being elected is, obviously, up for debate (the great wall of MURICA is probably the most amusing concept I've heard come from a candidate to date). Were I pressed to vote on the election, my choice between the two candidates would be Trump, for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the fact he doesn't support certain Marxist ideologies, or increased government power in areas such as education.
I'm going to reiterate this: Trump is a demagogue, not a standard politician. However, he is no more dangerous, imho, than, say, Hillary Clinton would be in office. We have a system of checks and balances in place, in the US government, specifically to prevent one horrible leader from wrecking the whole system. Hillary plans to continue Barrack Obama's push for increased Socialist policies in the US (free college education springs to mind, as does Socialized health care), which is something that I, as somebody who believes wholeheartedly in Capitalism (not that the US has true free-market Capitalism in any sense of the word), disagree with as both a matter of principle and a means of preventing tyranny (it should be noted that I am wholely aware that what I consider to be socialism is likely very different to what any Europeans on here consider to be Socialism, especially since US Socialist policies are extremely mild in comparison to, say, Socialized housing). Trump, as someone resembling a Capitalist, is always going to have more appeal for me than anybody pushing for Socialist programmes, simply due to the fact that increased reliance upon the State to provide for the people helps to pave the way for tyranny. As far as I am concerned, should Trump prove to be an extremely problematic President, both the Right and the Left will unite against him, and prevent him from doing more than minor harm to the US, and, as far as I'm concerned, that is better than almost certain harm coming from Hillary's proposed policies.
The fact it's obvious to you that people are voting for Trump because they hate Hillary simply reinforces the idea that a lot of Trump supporters can't stand the idea of a woman getting above her station and running for president
Additionally, this sort of radical feminist rhetoric hardly reinforces Hillary's position. It's actually amazing the amount of people that vote for Hillary simply due to the fact that she's a woman (much like the staggering amount of people who voted for Obama simply due to the fact that he was black). I had honestly thought that America was long past such blatant sexism, but I suppose that I was incorrect in that assumption, though I suppose that I really shouldn't be surprised that people, specifically Regressive Leftists, would vote for a candidate based upon such variables as sex or race, rather than policy. Seems as if no Political group is immune to the Regressives.
The reason people hate Hillary is because she has repeatedly, blatantly, poorly lied to the American people, been proven guilty of negligent behavior regarding classified information, and failed spectacularly to enact any kind of real positive change during her time as Secretary of State - not to mention the innumerable accusations of corruption leveled at her due to her use of her status as Secretary of State to garner hundreds of millions in donations to the Clinton foundation. There are legitimate reasons to dislike Hillary, much like there are legitimate reasons to dislike Trump - stop oversimplifying the issue.
Have an exalt, man! Nice to know everyone on Dakka isn't a HRC disciple. I, too, am not thrilled overwhelmingly with Trump, but I feel that he's better than Hillary in most respects. He doesn't plan on repealing the 2nd amendment, for example, whereas I'd swear I heard that Hillary said that she plans to do exactly that. Also, he plans to repeal Obamacare and put a more capitalist system in place. I'm all for that! We don't need the government providing everything, as that encourages laziness and ultimately allows tyranny to take over. We don't need to trade our freedom for free stuff.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 29 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
Have an exalt, man! Nice to know everyone on Dakka isn't a HRC disciple. I, too, am not thrilled overwhelmingly with Trump, but I feel that he's better than Hillary in most respects. He doesn't plan on repealing the 2nd amendment, for example, whereas I'd swear I heard that Hillary said that she plans to do exactly that.
Trump: Pro-assault weapon ban, until he wasn't anymore after he decided to run. Anti gun in classrooms, until 24 hours later when he was pro gun in classrooms. Pro gun-bans for folks on the no-fly list, until a couple days later when he was anti gun-bans for folks on the no-fly list.
I think most folks would say that Trump's planned infringement on the 1st are a lot more severe than any of Hillary's imagined infringements on the 2nd.
Also, he plans to repeal Obamacare and put a more capitalist system in place. I'm all for that! We don't need the government providing everything, as that encourages laziness and ultimately allows tyranny to take over. We don't need to trade our freedom for free stuff.
@ZergSmasher
Nothing is ever free. When it comes to stuff like "free" education or housing, the money comes out of the pocket of the tax payer, it's just more structured than a Capalist education would be. Also, I'd hardly call everyone here a Clinton disciple, many seem to understand the fact that both candidates are garbage, and either choice is just trying to divine which is the lesser evil.
d-usa wrote: What exactly makes Obamacare "anti-capitalist"?
I never said Obamacare was "anti-capitalist", I just said Trump plans to put something more capitalist in its place. His words, not mine. Honestly, I have no idea what he has in mind.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 29 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
