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Please don't mistake your very own opinion as 'reality'.
Coming from you, really, it's rich.
When have I ever advocated my views is "reality"?
I'm just very opinionated.
To me, it's not a mystery. It's just the consequences of Republican "Clinton bashing" strategy. It's easy to believe a lie when it is repeated over and over. Even more when that's what a lot of media are reporting, to try to make the election "a fair fight between two sides".
There's a saying...
If George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romeny are literally Hilter!1!!!!!...
...
Seriously... Romney was possibly the most moderate, milquetoast GOP candidate in some time and even he was demonized...
Very true. Remember the adds showing Ryan pushing old people off a cliff and stories about how Romney killed people?
The demonoization goes on both sides.
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feeder wrote: It's not liberal bias to think Trump is a worse candidate that HRC in every possible way.
Hitler vs. Mussolini is still a bad choice.
Its about time the American people had a better choice, a Selma Hyack vs. Elizabeth Hurley kind of choice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/06 11:04:39
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Its about time the American people had a better choice
Then the American people better get their gak together as the terrible options didn't come from nowhere and aren't getting support from no one. It is the same problem where people complain about congress and incumbents but vote for the same people over and over. The problem is us, not some outside force.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Frazzled wrote: Its about time the American people had a better choice
Then the American people better get their gak together as the terrible options didn't come from nowhere and aren't getting support from no one. It is the same problem where people complain about congress and incumbents but vote for the same people over and over. The problem is us, not some outside force.
Thats exactly what the third party people have been saying. I've been saying that since I jumped on the Perot train.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Its about time the American people had a better choice
Then the American people better get their gak together as the terrible options didn't come from nowhere and aren't getting support from no one. It is the same problem where people complain about congress and incumbents but vote for the same people over and over. The problem is us, not some outside force.
Or it could be the system that only puts those people as possible candidates? I think it´s misguided to blame the people when it has been proven that they dont actual hold any significant power in the system.
Frazzled wrote: Its about time the American people had a better choice
Then the American people better get their gak together as the terrible options didn't come from nowhere and aren't getting support from no one. It is the same problem where people complain about congress and incumbents but vote for the same people over and over. The problem is us, not some outside force.
Or it could be the system that only puts those people as possible candidates? I think it´s misguided to blame the people when it has been proven that they dont actual hold any significant power in the system.
no, your post highlights the problem. the people do hold the power, and it's time for the people to realize that. The bar is so low right now that even fraz should be able to rally the country, offering free weenier dogs to everyone and win by a landslide. I'd do it, but I'm getting to old for damn fool idealistic crusades. Now is the time for a party of the people, and a trump win should make it all the easier to rally the people, impeach trump, and get anyone else into office.
ulgurstasta wrote: Or it could be the system that only puts those people as possible candidates?
Where do you think systems come from? Who allows them to perpetuate? These are all made by us, made up of us, and exist because of us. If it was really important to change it it would be changed but complaining is easier and makes us feel better.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Frazzled wrote: Its about time the American people had a better choice
Then the American people better get their gak together as the terrible options didn't come from nowhere and aren't getting support from no one. It is the same problem where people complain about congress and incumbents but vote for the same people over and over. The problem is us, not some outside force.
Or it could be the system that only puts those people as possible candidates? I think it´s misguided to blame the people when it has been proven that they dont actual hold any significant power in the system.
no, your post highlights the problem. the people do hold the power, and it's time for the people to realize that. The bar is so low right now that even fraz should be able to rally the country, offering free weenier dogs to everyone and win by a landslide. I'd do it, but I'm getting to old for damn fool idealistic crusades. Now is the time for a party of the people, and a trump win should make it all the easier to rally the people, impeach trump, and get anyone else into office.
I do agree that people should take action, but it´s not so simple. You dont build an organization over night, that takes time and effort, especially in the US political system where the two main parties hold such enormous power.
ulgurstasta wrote: Or it could be the system that only puts those people as possible candidates?
Where do you think systems come from? Who allows them to perpetuate? These are all made by us, made up of us, and exist because of us. If it was really important to change it it would be changed but complaining is easier and makes us feel better.
I´m all for the people getting active, but this isn´t a problem you can solve by complaining about people voting for the wrong people, as the people dont have any choice in what candidates they get to vote for in the first place! It requires serious work and dedication to organize in such a way that you can change the system in a meaningful way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/06 12:04:52
Frazzled wrote: Its about time the American people had a better choice
Then the American people better get their gak together as the terrible options didn't come from nowhere and aren't getting support from no one. It is the same problem where people complain about congress and incumbents but vote for the same people over and over. The problem is us, not some outside force.
Or it could be the system that only puts those people as possible candidates? I think it´s misguided to blame the people when it has been proven that they dont actual hold any significant power in the system.
no, your post highlights the problem. the people do hold the power, and it's time for the people to realize that. The bar is so low right now that even fraz should be able to rally the country, offering free weenier dogs to everyone and win by a landslide. I'd do it, but I'm getting to old for damn fool idealistic crusades. Now is the time for a party of the people, and a trump win should make it all the easier to rally the people, impeach trump, and get anyone else into office.
I do agree that people should take action, but it´s not so simple. You dont build an organization over night, that takes time and effort, especially in the US political system where the two main parties hold such enormous power.
no kidding, the 3rd parties have been trying since perot. but it's amazing how people are so entrenched in the 2 parties owned by the 1% they don't even realize they still have the power, and they're rather vote for the banks candidates instead of the other parties. this should be the year for the 3rd parties, let's end the insanity.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/06 12:00:56
Frazzled wrote: Its about time the American people had a better choice
Then the American people better get their gak together as the terrible options didn't come from nowhere and aren't getting support from no one. It is the same problem where people complain about congress and incumbents but vote for the same people over and over. The problem is us, not some outside force.
Or it could be the system that only puts those people as possible candidates? I think it´s misguided to blame the people when it has been proven that they dont actual hold any significant power in the system.
no, your post highlights the problem. the people do hold the power, and it's time for the people to realize that. The bar is so low right now that even fraz should be able to rally the country, offering free weenier dogs to everyone and win by a landslide. I'd do it, but I'm getting to old for damn fool idealistic crusades. Now is the time for a party of the people, and a trump win should make it all the easier to rally the people, impeach trump, and get anyone else into office.
There's enough blame to go around. We have two entrenched parties that have legally manipulated the structures to their advantage (for example-the debates only featuring them, gee maybe its because the commission only and D and Rs). We have the decline of the party system itself (parties actually don't have very much power vs. the individual candidates vs. the "bad old days" which generated better candidates). Finally we have an ignorant electorate -ignorant of the candidates, the issues, and too cowlike in following the latest outrage their party machinery provides for them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: SLightly differnt bent but I find this article particularly cogent on why Trump is popular. Both parties have in many ways forgotten the working class. At the "end of the day" we may be seeing the birth of a powerful worker's party. If Sander's basement dwellers and Trump's laid off factory workers get together they could run the table on both parties.
n 1996, Bruce Springsteen’s Ghost of Tom Joad tour stopped in Youngstown. In the intimate setting of Stambaugh Auditorium, he dedicated his song about this struggling steel town to the community and a displaced steelworker family. The song was based on interviews with Joe Marshall and his son, Joe Jr., quotes in Journey to Nowhere: The Saga of the New Underclass, a book by journalist Dale Maharidge and photographer Michael Williamson.
From the Monongahela Valley To the Mesabi iron range To the coal mines of Appalachia The story’s always the same 700 tons of metal a day Now sir you tell me the world’s changed Once I made you rich enough Rich enough to forget my name
We were reminded of this piece of history from (to reference another Springsteen song) our hometown over the weekend, when The New York Times ran a clever bit of political musicology, analyzing the prospects of presidential candidates Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in places Springsteen made famous in his ballads of middle-class America.
RELATED: Bruce Springsteen’s “Chapter & Verse”: A close read of the companion album to his memoir “Born to Run”
“Youngstown” didn’t sound like the New Jersey cruising music that many of Springsteen’s fans expected. In the late ’90s, Springsteen presented the song as a lament, its working-class sense of loss embedded in a mournful, almost dirge-like sound. By the time Springsteen recorded a Madison Square Garden concert with the E Street Band five years later, it had become an anthem, simmering with red-hot anger and ending with wild guitar riffs. That’s the version Springsteen played in get-out-the-vote concerts in the early 2000s, as he traveled the US in support of Democratic presidential candidates.
Too bad the candidates — and the media elites — were too busy listening to The Boss to hear the voices of the people he was singing about. They might have picked up earlier on the resentment that accompanied the economic losses of deindustrialization — resentment that has prompted the shift of northeastern Ohio voters away from the Democratic Party, starting about the time Springsteen visited Youngstown in the mid-’90s, soon after NAFTA was implemented. Political historians have noted that the white working class largely shifted its allegiance to the Republican Party decades ago, but it took several decades for the shift to reach the so-called Rust Belt. In the 2012 election, The Atlantic suggested, Obama mobilized a new Democratic coalition of young people, minorities, college-educated whites and women, especially in the Sun Belt, to overcome the dwindling support of blue-collar workers and educated white men. In critical battleground states, especially Ohio, Obama received just enough white working-class support overcome the Republican challenge — not a majority, but enough to nudge Ohio into blue-state status.This may be the year the shift becomes complete in old Democratic strongholds like northeastern Ohio, where the Democrats having been losing working-class support over the last few elections. Despite warnings not to neglect the working class, who will likely play a crucial role in this year’s election, the Democratic Party has continued to ignore the feeling of many in that traditionally reliable constituency — white men especially — that the party doesn’t understand or care about them. It hopes its new Democratic coalition will carry Clinton to the White House.Tom Morello, Troubadour for Justice May 18, 2012 Full Show from BillMoyers.com on Vimeo.What is key to this year’s election, and what threatens those Democratic hopes is this: The economic struggles and social displacement that Springsteen chronicled in The Ghost of Tom Joadare no longer the exclusive province of the lunch-bucket set. Many in the middle class are now feeling the same insecurity and the same resentments. In Ohio, both the long-struggling working class and the newly vulnerable middle class are desperate enough to see hope in a billionaire who has demonstrated that he views workers and small business owners as potential objects of exploitation and wage theft. Donald Trump is clearly rich enough to forget not only their names but also the stances he has taken and, potentially, many of the promises he has made. But these voters have heard enough empty promises from the Democrats over the years.
This year it looks like Ohio is lost. The most recent Quinnipiac poll following the first debate shows Clinton has lost ground in the last month. The Democratic Party has effectively written the state off, cutting financial and staff support in hopes using its resources in more diverse and educated states, like North Carolina. Clinton returned to Ohio Monday for the first time in a month, but that was apparently in an effort to draw Trump resources from other battleground states.
Springsteen has said the purpose of art is to give people a sense of their commonality, and his songs have taught us much about working-class life in the US. Songs like “Youngstown” don’t suggest solutions for economic change, of course. But they can inspire empathy and help careful listeners understand the social costs of deindustrialization.
It’s too bad the Democrats didn’t listen. They might be doing a better job now of earning the support of the men and women whose stories “Youngstown” captures. The Democratic establishment and many in the media wonder why so many white working-class voters have abandoned the party. Unfortunately, for many of those voters, the Democratic Party feels it’s rich enough to forget their names.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/06 12:32:33
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Part of the problem might be that the job has gotten to the point where only someone with distinct personality traits would even want the job: delusions of grandeur, arrogance, aggressiveness, selfishness, willingness to lie or bend the truth, sadomasichistic tendencies, light sleeper. I know I wouldn't care for it.
Month one recall all troops to the US
Month two those troops respond to requests for aid from Mexico and Canada to protect them from the cat people.
Month three: PROFIT!
It might be hard to hear my inauguration speech over the sound of 10,000 wiener dogs barking though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/06 12:57:12
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Stupid people are going to be stupid, but that's just an extra special kind of stupid.
And those people vote.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Well, it appears that Obama's approval numbers are up, particularly with Democrats and independents. Could be a good sign for the HRC campaign. Maybe running as a continuation isn't such a bad strategy since it seems like only the conservative end didn't budge, and they are unlikely to vote her anyway.
Interesting is that his worst numbers continue to be with white voters with less than a college education. Which is squarely in Trump's base. But with every other group, his numbers show to be pretty good. I think this highlights the problem with the current Republican trajectory and just how narrow their current base is.
The Bushes seemingly going for HRC is a very good point and shows just how far off track the party has gotten by pandering to it's more extremist elements at the expense of the moderate middle (and how the Democrats, as a whole, are not even as remotely "liberal" as the rhetoric portrays). But I suspect that until the Republicans lose their footholds in Congress, they won't change. State leadership in solid red areas, of course, has little reason to change (they can afford to support pointless legislation that panders to the demands of their wingnuts, even if such efforts tank them with moderates) and, ironically, continuing to hold so many state governorships may cripple the GOP nationally if they don't adapt.
If the Dems can tap into the uneducated white vote a bit more, the Repubs will pretty much only have evangelicals as a bloc. However, that may not be viable as the target group has shown to also have a disproportionate share of the rather vocal racists, homophobes, and misogynists who reject a more inclusive platform. The key will be peeling off the hardworking element that is more concerned with opportunity, healthcare, etc. then blaming people different from themselves. The GOP strategy of playing on the fears of "the Other" (Muslims, immigrants, LGBT, etc.) is ultimately extremely self-destructive and increasingly unviable as the American population continues diversifying.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
For all of the conservative complaints about the direction of this country, it's important to remember that they control the congress, held a majority of SCOTUS until Scalia's death, and control the majority of State Houses and governerships.
Outside of the White House, the GOP runs this country.
You know right? However, both parties have their hard core supporters. These view anything other than Pavlovian propaganda as being rampant anti-their candidate.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Polonius wrote: For all of the conservative complaints about the direction of this country, it's important to remember that they control the congress, held a majority of SCOTUS until Scalia's death, and control the majority of State Houses and governerships.
Outside of the White House, the GOP runs this country.
Very true. But the Dems did control the Senate from 2009-2015 and the House from 2007-2011. The Dems held the majority of state governorships from 2006-2010.
So the shifts seem to correlate pretty closely with Obama's presidency, which is very interesting.
Polonius wrote: For all of the conservative complaints about the direction of this country, it's important to remember that they control the congress, held a majority of SCOTUS until Scalia's death, and control the majority of State Houses and governerships.
Outside of the White House, the GOP runs this country.
Yeah, but at the state level, they're forced to govern a bit more responsibly than at the federal level. The state critters aren't on the same gravy train as the federal critters, so they often actually have to suffer the consequences of their actions.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
I read a great piece the other day; "The ongoing normalization of Trump is the most disorienting development of the presidential campaign, but the most significant may be the abnormalization of Clinton."
The article goes on to point out that Clinton's email scandal has somehow become the defining feature of her candidacy. This is very strange because a similar scandal ran throughout the Bush administration, with many staffers running private emails to evade public record keeping, which ended up with 22 million emails being deleted.
This is beyond ridiculous. Clinton's email scandal is nothing like those previous events. By the way, there were all recovered.
This was only a smaller part of a larger scandal where DoJ staff were fired when they failed to find evidence of Democrat voter fraud that the Bush admin just believed must be out there. Which in turn was only a minor scandal compared to some of the other doozies of the Bush admin.
It wasn't even a scandal.
And yet, if you described the Bush admin as scandal filled, and that Clinton's emails are extremely minor in comparison, people wouldn't believe you, or even understand how you could reach that conclusion.
Of course, this isn't to say that Clinton didn't do anything wrong. But in the words of the article; "Yet the question is not whether Clinton’s ethics problems exist at all but whether they ought to separate her from normal politicians. The inability to contextualize these flaws has been a signal failure of the general election."
Extremely minor in comparison? See... this is why we can't have nice things. The hypocrisy is glaring here Seb.
Its no wonder that politics is treated as a team sport.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Polonius wrote: For all of the conservative complaints about the direction of this country, it's important to remember that they control the congress, held a majority of SCOTUS until Scalia's death, and control the majority of State Houses and governerships.
Outside of the White House, the GOP runs this country.
True. 'Tis why the down ballot voting is important and strangely enough, Trumps isn't as much as an albatross as predicted.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/06 14:22:30
jmurph wrote: If the Dems can tap into the uneducated white vote a bit more, the Repubs will pretty much only have evangelicals as a bloc. However, that may not be viable as the target group has shown to also have a disproportionate share of the rather vocal racists, homophobes, and misogynists who reject a more inclusive platform. The key will be peeling off the hardworking element that is more concerned with opportunity, healthcare, etc. then blaming people different from themselves. The GOP strategy of playing on the fears of "the Other" (Muslims, immigrants, LGBT, etc.) is ultimately extremely self-destructive and increasingly unviable as the American population continues diversifying.
Given the demographic shifts in the country, the emphasis for the Dems should probably be with retaining the votes of non-white working class folks, and let the rest take care of itself.
EVENTUALLY, the GOP will make course corrections. They'll have to. And I don't think it'll be as monumental a task as some believe. Traditional fiscal conservatism can and does still play well in many areas of the country, including blue states. And there are still plenty of Republican politicians at the lower levels who aren't complete wingnuts. The party just needs to focus on purging the troublesome elements like they've spent the past 20 years purging the moderate elements. And the way that tends to go, if you get rid of the biggest, loudest troublemakers, things can clear up surprisingly quickly.
I'm not a partisan...I don't flip the Democratic or Republican lever. But I've voted increasingly Democratic in recent years just because the GOP isn't giving me enough viable alternatives. I would greatly prefer a situation where both parties are presenting viable options. It would make us much stronger as a country.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/06 14:30:30
If George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romeny are literally Hilter!1!!!!!...
...
Seriously... Romney was possibly the most moderate, milquetoast GOP candidate in some time and even he was demonized...
I feel I should address this statement. Of the candidates you listed, exactly two of them were demonized: George W Bush and Mitt Romney. G.H.W. Bush and Bob Dole ran in a time before either party started demonizing anybody. Their opponents may have said they weren't going to be good presidents, but they weren't held up as men who would destroy the very fabric of America. John McCain was not held up as a man who would destroy America. Sarah Palin was demonized, and McCain caught flak for picking her as his veep, but there weren't any Hitler/McCain comparisons being made outside of very small corners of the internet that nobody ever listens to anyway.
George W Bush was demonized by the left, as were most of the people he picked to help him run the country. The left never got over the election of 2000, and a lot of people spewed a lot of bile at the man for 8 years, only some of which was deserved. So, yes, he was demonized.
Mitt Romney was demonized, but not by the left. The people who called Mitt Romney the worst candidate ever were conservatives. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and the rest of their ilk decided that Romney wasn't "conservative" enough (using their own crazy-pants definitions of conservative) and called him out as being worse than Hillary Clinton.
Yes. That was a thing that happened.
So please, do not try to equate the vitriol and rancor of recent elections as being the fault of the left for saying mean things about your candidates, because that only happened from 2000-2008 and non-stop since you nominated an orangutan with a comb-over.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
Frazzled wrote: Its about time the American people had a better choice
Then the American people better get their gak together as the terrible options didn't come from nowhere and aren't getting support from no one. It is the same problem where people complain about congress and incumbents but vote for the same people over and over. The problem is us, not some outside force.
Or it could be the system that only puts those people as possible candidates? I think it´s misguided to blame the people when it has been proven that they dont actual hold any significant power in the system.
no, your post highlights the problem. the people do hold the power, and it's time for the people to realize that. The bar is so low right now that even fraz should be able to rally the country, offering free weenier dogs to everyone and win by a landslide. I'd do it, but I'm getting to old for damn fool idealistic crusades. Now is the time for a party of the people, and a trump win should make it all the easier to rally the people, impeach trump, and get anyone else into office.
I do agree that people should take action, but it´s not so simple. You dont build an organization over night, that takes time and effort, especially in the US political system where the two main parties hold such enormous power.
no kidding, the 3rd parties have been trying since perot. but it's amazing how people are so entrenched in the 2 parties owned by the 1% they don't even realize they still have the power, and they're rather vote for the banks candidates instead of the other parties. this should be the year for the 3rd parties, let's end the insanity.
That's nice to say, but if the 3rd parties want legitimacy, they need to do better than Gary Johnson and Dr. Jill Stein. Both candidates and their parties have shown very little that is attractive to the mainstream other than a "rage" option for their vote this fall.
What I'd like to see, and what I think we will see more frequently, is more Sanders-like Independents who aren't beholding to strict party-line dogma.
If George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romeny are literally Hilter!1!!!!!...
...
Seriously... Romney was possibly the most moderate, milquetoast GOP candidate in some time and even he was demonized...
I feel I should address this statement. Of the candidates you listed, exactly two of them were demonized: George W Bush and Mitt Romney. G.H.W. Bush and Bob Dole ran in a time before either party started demonizing anybody. Their opponents may have said they weren't going to be good presidents, but they weren't held up as men who would destroy the very fabric of America. John McCain was not held up as a man who would destroy America. Sarah Palin was demonized, and McCain caught flak for picking her as his veep, but there weren't any Hitler/McCain comparisons being made outside of very small corners of the internet that nobody ever listens to anyway.
George W Bush was demonized by the left, as were most of the people he picked to help him run the country. The left never got over the election of 2000, and a lot of people spewed a lot of bile at the man for 8 years, only some of which was deserved. So, yes, he was demonized.
Mitt Romney was demonized, but not by the left. The people who called Mitt Romney the worst candidate ever were conservatives. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and the rest of their ilk decided that Romney wasn't "conservative" enough (using their own crazy-pants definitions of conservative) and called him out as being worse than Hillary Clinton.
Yes. That was a thing that happened.
So please, do not try to equate the vitriol and rancor of recent elections as being the fault of the left for saying mean things about your candidates, because that only happened from 2000-2008 and non-stop since you nominated an orangutan with a comb-over.
No. I'm old enough to remember the rancor back in H.W. Bush's run. (see... I'm old, but not Frazzled old! )
Romney WAS demonzied by the left during the election season. I've posted numerous examples of that back in 2012 on this very site. The conservative media hound him during the primary season, but once he was the candidate, they all rallied behind him.
McCain was emphatheticaly hammered by the left... and part of it was the Bush fatigue.
This isn't a *new* phenomenon. What *is* new, is the ubiquitous of social media that makes these things "louder" in a sense.
My point was that, in living memory decent GOP Presidential candidates were demonized in such a way, that the voters grew numb to those kinds of characterizations. Such that, using the same demonization techniques on Trump... it has fallen on deaf ears.
Month one recall all troops to the US
Month two those troops respond to requests for aid from Mexico and Canada to protect them from the cat people.
Month three: PROFIT!
It might be hard to hear my inauguration speech over the sound of 10,000 wiener dogs barking though.
That settles it. Writing in Frazzled. Train wiener dogs to give the State of the Union and I'd be down with allowing a life term for presidency as well.
whembly wrote: Romney WAS demonzied by the left during the election season. I've posted numerous examples of that back in 2012 on this very site. The conservative media hound him during the primary season, but once he was the candidate, they all rallied behind him.
McCain was emphatheticaly hammered by the left... and part of it was the Bush fatigue.
The problem comes when the negative ads/messages STICK. And often, that's because the candidate says or does something dumb -- such as McCain putting Palin on the ticket, or Romney's 47% quote, or both of them going so righty-right during the primaries that their appeal to moderates was shot by the time the general election came around.
Sometimes stuff that's *completely invented* sticks too. Like Swift Boat and John Kerry, or "Willie" Horton and Dukakis. That's the stuff that's really a shame.
sirlynchmob wrote: hitler is so over, obama wishes he could be compared to hitler. Let's remember he is the anti christ, hitler would be a step up.
Not sure if this is sarcasm...
more of a hyperbole, than sarcasm. But if you're bored feel free to google "obama anti-christ" just to see how many people still think he's their man. Which is great when you think about it. He failed at that as well, no need to worry about the end of times anymore
If George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romeny are literally Hilter!1!!!!!... ...
Seriously... Romney was possibly the most moderate, milquetoast GOP candidate in some time and even he was demonized...
I feel I should address this statement. Of the candidates you listed, exactly two of them were demonized: George W Bush and Mitt Romney. G.H.W. Bush and Bob Dole ran in a time before either party started demonizing anybody. Their opponents may have said they weren't going to be good presidents, but they weren't held up as men who would destroy the very fabric of America. John McCain was not held up as a man who would destroy America. Sarah Palin was demonized, and McCain caught flak for picking her as his veep, but there weren't any Hitler/McCain comparisons being made outside of very small corners of the internet that nobody ever listens to anyway.
George W Bush was demonized by the left, as were most of the people he picked to help him run the country. The left never got over the election of 2000, and a lot of people spewed a lot of bile at the man for 8 years, only some of which was deserved. So, yes, he was demonized.
Mitt Romney was demonized, but not by the left. The people who called Mitt Romney the worst candidate ever were conservatives. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, and the rest of their ilk decided that Romney wasn't "conservative" enough (using their own crazy-pants definitions of conservative) and called him out as being worse than Hillary Clinton.
Yes. That was a thing that happened.
So please, do not try to equate the vitriol and rancor of recent elections as being the fault of the left for saying mean things about your candidates, because that only happened from 2000-2008 and non-stop since you nominated an orangutan with a comb-over.
No. I'm old enough to remember the rancor back in H.W. Bush's run. (see... I'm old, but not Frazzled old! )
Romney WAS demonzied by the left during the election season. I've posted numerous examples of that back in 2012 on this very site. The conservative media hound him during the primary season, but once he was the candidate, they all rallied behind him.
McCain was emphatheticaly hammered by the left... and part of it was the Bush fatigue.
This isn't a *new* phenomenon. What *is* new, is the ubiquitous of social media that makes these things "louder" in a sense.
My point was that, in living memory decent GOP Presidential candidates were demonized in such a way, that the voters grew numb to those kinds of characterizations. Such that, using the same demonization techniques on Trump... it has fallen on deaf ears.
sirlynchmob wrote: hitler is so over, obama wishes he could be compared to hitler. Let's remember he is the anti christ, hitler would be a step up.
Not sure if this is sarcasm...
Re-check your sarcas-o-meter buddy.
I remember the Democrats saying a vote for Reagan was a vote for nuclear war.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/06 16:04:53
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
)
