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Ensis Ferrae wrote: Im not so sure he'd need to go as far as Palin did though... If you'll pay attention to the end of his ads, you may notice his campaign is "Donald Trump, Inc." or "Trump for President, Inc." or something similar... Point is, unlike pretty much every other campaign I've ever looked at, he's the only one who has incorporated himself. Ohh, and we can throw in the earlier "non-stories" about how various Trump businesses have provided "loans" to the campaign effort. I think he views his "personal" money as being pretty safe... Now, whether he can generate any more because his brand/image is quite tarnished is a whole other ballgame.
But as I said earlier, Palin was fine because she could head off to the media and speaking circuit and make a whole bunch of money. That model doesn't really work when you're Trump, who has a few billion in assets leveraged a billion odd in debt. If people stopped attending his golf courses or staying in his hotels, then when the interest on his debt came due there's no way any amount of money he made in the media could possibly help make those debt repayments. Even if he starts a TV station and takes over the media space and revenue that's now claimed by FOX News... it wouldn't come close to covering the debt on his other businesses.
That said, the idea that all Trump's businesses would suffer is pretty fanciful. The con artists renting micro-spaces in Trump's 40 Wall Street don't care about Trump's reputation, they just want a Wall Street address. I suspect Trump's casino interests might even benefit, because Trump's political appeal and the people who go to casinos have a pretty strong demographic overlap. It's his hotels and golf courses that might take the hit, and this could be a big hit if liberals stay mad at Trump, mainstream Republicans get mad at Trump, and his own 'movement' peters away once Trump can't be on the news every night.
A lot depends on exactly how stable the Trump ship really is. It isn't exactly clearly how much of an ownership interest Trump has in many of his investments, nor is the amount of debt on his properties fully known. If he is leveraged far more than assumed then a drop in revenue could be catastrophic. But it's all speculation, really.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
whembly wrote: You don't know this VA yahoo was open carrying to intimidate... I agree it was silly for him to open carry. But let's dispense with the idea that this is on the same level of the NBP.
I definitely would like to hear you explain exactly how an armed man outside an early voting location handing out GOP literature and asking people how they intend to vote is nowhere on the same level as what the NBP guy did and clearly not an attempt to intimidate voters.
I always assumed that the NBP guys were there to try and prevent blacks from being intimidated when voting for the first black president, rather than being there to intimidate anyone. Whilst the impression I get from the open carry guy is that he was there purely to prevent people from voting the way he views is wrong. Is that inaccurate on my part?
I also imagine there is an issue of scale here as well. The NBP probably weren't at as many places in comparison to the less savory elements of the Trump campaign.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Trump more than 2 hours late to PA rally. Just interviewed a woman who'd waited 4 hrs w/ 85 yo mom. In tears, told me Trump lost her vote.
...
Yeah, because tardiness is the main problem with the Trump campaign.....
.. still -- barring the inevitable slew of poorly thought out and funded legal challenges, at least this election is nearly over.
..small mercies and all that eh ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
skyth wrote: I'll be glad when the ads are off the air...I'm getting sick of the ones that are blatant lies or misinformation.
I swear that some of the local races, opponents are using the same voice over guy. Over the past few months I've traveled to PA, TX, and CA, and all of their commercial narrators have that same "Concerned Dad Voice: when you come home late and he's taking away your car keys for a week."
Also, there is a local guy named Brad Schnieder, and every time I hear his name or see a yard sign, I can't get South Park out of my head.
skyth wrote: I'll be glad when the ads are off the air...I'm getting sick of the ones that are blatant lies or misinformation.
I swear that some of the local races, opponents are using the same voice over guy. Over the past few months I've traveled to PA, TX, and CA, and all of their commercial narrators have that same "Concerned Dad Voice: when you come home late and he's taking away your keys for a week."
Also, there is a local guy named Brad Schnieder, and every time I hear his name or see a yard sign, I can't get South Park out of my head.
On the one hand she had Waco and Elian Gonzalez, on the other hand the current shenanigans would never have occurred under her, and she was well respected in justice circles.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/07 12:41:09
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Some additional detail on Janet Reno for the youngins who aren't familiar:
I won't fault her for Waco. She wasn't in charge of the initial clusterfeth when the agencies thought they'd get cool pics instead of a simple arrest and ended getting their asses kicked.
They attempted multiple peaceful methods, and tear gas was/is a time honored tool.
Janet Reno, the strong-minded Florida prosecutor tapped by Bill Clinton to become the country’s first female U.S. attorney general, and who shaped the U.S. government’s responses to the largest legal crises of the 1990s, died Nov. 7 at her home in Miami. She was 78.
The cause was complications from Parkinson’s disease, her goddaughter, Gabrielle D’Alemberte, told the Associated Press.
Ms. Reno brought a fierce independence to her job. From the FBI siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Texas to the investigation into Clinton’s sexual relationship with intern Monica Lewinsky, she was adamant that her prosecutors and agents work outside of the influence of politics, media or popular opinion.
Her supporters believed she brought a heightened level of integrity and professionalism to the attorney general’s office. They admired her insistence upon legal exactitude from her employees, and praised her caution in prosecutions.
Ms. Reno resisted weeks of pressure to arrest sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, waiting until she believed agents had sufficient legal justification to tie him to the 1993 World Trade Center bombings. He was later convicted.
On Feb. 12, 1993, President Clinton named Janet Reno the nation's first female attorney general. (Doug Mills/AP)
“She was a very powerful force for lawfulness,” said Walter Dellinger III, a Duke University law professor who served as solicitor general during Ms. Reno’s tenure. “She was always challenging to make sure there was a sound legal basis for what people were doing. And she was adamant about separating the department from politics.”
Business leaders criticized her lengthy prosecution of Microsoft on charges of anti-competitive violations – a case that ultimately ended in a settlement under the George W. Bush administration.
Civil libertarians took Ms. Reno to task for her handling of the espionage case against former Los Alamos scientist Wen Ho Lee, who was held in solitary confinement for nine months after being charged with mishandling nuclear secrets, only to be released on a lesser charge. Even Clinton said he was troubled by the case; Ms. Reno refused to apologize.
Republicans criticized her bitterly for pandering to the Clinton White House – she refused, for instance, to launch an independent investigation into whether Vice President Al Gore illegally fundraised from the White House during the 1996 Clinton-Gore reelection campaign. Democrats, meanwhile, disparaged her for abandoning her political patrons. Ms. Reno said first lady Hillary Clinton never forgave her for authorizing an investigation into the Lewinsky affair.
Ms. Reno remained in office longer than any other attorney general of the 20th century, and won high marks outside of the capital for her plain-spoken manner and folksiness: her preference for kayaking on the Potomac River to hobnobbing on Washington’s cocktail circuit; her oft-told childhood stories from the Everglades, with a mother who wrestled alligators; and her home in Florida with a family of peacocks, all named Horace.
A self-described “awkward old maid” who stood nearly 6-foot-2, Ms. Reno showed a willingness to lampoon her image. She joined actor Will Ferrell on NBC’s “Saturday Night Live” as he played a wooden version of her in a skit called “Janet Reno’s Dance Party.”
She was Bill Clinton’s third pick for attorney general. He had promised to nominate a woman for the post, but his first two choices – corporate lawyer Zoe Baird and New York federal Judge Kimba Wood – withdrew following allegations they hired illegal immigrants as nannies.
Remembering former U.S. attorney general Janet Reno
View Photos
Janet Reno, first female U.S. attorney general, dies at 78.
Ms. Reno, who had no children and therefore no nanny issues, came to the president’s attention through his brother-in-law Hugh Rodham, a public defender in Dade County and an admirer of Ms. Reno’s legal record.
Ms. Reno also drew praise from Marian Wright Edelman, president of the Children’s Defense Fund and a friend of Hillary Clinton. Edelman reportedly admired Ms. Reno’s aggressive prosecution of child abusers and child support cases.
When he nominated Ms. Reno for attorney general, the president noted that she kept her phone number listed — an unusual risk for a prosecutor. “She has lived the kind of life in real contact with the toughest problems of this country that I think will serve her very well as the nation’s chief law enforcement officer,” Clinton said.
Protecting children, facing unrest
Janet Wood Reno was born in Miami on July 21, 1938. Her father, Henry, spent more than 40 years as a police reporter for the Miami Herald. Her mother, the former Jane Wood, was an investigative reporter for the now defunct Miami News.
When Janet Reno was a child, the family moved into a home her mother built outside of Miami, on what then was the edge of the Everglades.
Ms. Reno graduated from Cornell University in 1960 and in 1963 from Harvard Law School, where she was one of a handful of women in a class of more than 500. After a stint at a small Miami law firm (she said larger firms passed her by because of her gender), she was hired to the Florida State’s Attorney office. The prosecutor’s administrative assistant, Seymour Gelber, assigned her to what he thought was the dead-end job of organizing the office’s juvenile division.
“It was an appendage nobody paid much attention to, so I sent Janet over there and figured she would dawdle around like everybody else and write another report,” Gelber told the Chicago Tribune in 1993. “Instead, she pasted the juvenile court together in about two months.”
Protecting children would remain a focus of Ms. Reno’s career. In speech after speech, she connected crime to poor social conditions such as poverty and a broken school system.
She was appointed Dade County State’s Attorney in 1978, and won five straight elections running as a Democrat in the predominantly Republican county.
Many minority residents blamed her for the 1980 acquittal of four white police officers accused of killing an unarmed black motorcyclist – a case that sparked race riots in Miami. More than a dozen people were killed, hundreds were injured, and then-Florida Gov. Bob Graham (later a U.S. senator) called in thousands of National Guard troops to keep the peace. Mobs reportedly shouted “Re-no!” as they set fires.
Ms. Reno’s work reaching out to black and Latino residents eventually helped calm tensions. She put a priority on hiring minorities, and aggressively pursued absentee fathers to pay their child support obligations.
Clinton nominated Ms. Reno to the attorney general post in February 1993. At the time he praised her rock-solid integrity — a characteristic that led her to buy cars new, at sticker price, to avoid any appearance of impropriety.
Within a month of her appointment, Ms. Reno confronted a case that colleagues said would define the rest of her career: the standoff with followers of self-proclaimed prophet David Koresh at the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas.
Koresh had already killed four federal officers and had withstood a weeks-long standoff with the FBI when agents asked Ms. Reno to authorize a raid of the compound.
She gave the go-ahead for the agents to storm the building with tear gas, she said, after being convinced that children were being abused inside. During the raid, a fire broke out and engulfed the compound, killing all 80 or so people inside. Later that day, an anguished-looking Reno stood in front of television cameras and took full blame.
“I made the decision,” Ms. Reno said. “I’m accountable. The buck stops with me.”
She later stood her ground during a House Judiciary Committee hearing, when Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) told her she was right to offer her resignation, saying, “I’d like you to know that there is at least one member of Congress that isn’t going to rationalize the death of two dozen children.”
“I haven’t tried to rationalize the death of children, Congressman,” she responded, glaring, her voice quavering. “I feel more strongly about it than you will ever know. But I have neither tried to rationalize the death of four agents, and I will not walk away from a compound where ATF agents had been killed by people who knew they were agents and leave them unsurrounded . . . Most of all, Congressman, I will not engage in recrimination.”
For the rest of Ms. Reno’s career, fringe groups pointed to Waco as evidence of the deadly misuse of federal force. Timothy McVeigh, responsible for the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City, which killed 168 people and injured scores more, reportedly saw Waco as inspiration for his terrorism.
Although personally opposed to capital punishment, Ms. Reno authorized her prosecutors to seek the death penalty against McVeigh. He was killed by lethal injection in June 2001, the first federal execution since 1963.
Late in her term as attorney general, Ms. Reno faced similar questions about federal force. The Miami relatives of young Elian Gonzalez, whose mother had drowned as the pair attempted to flee Cuba to the United States, refused to return the child to his father, who wanted to take him back to Cuba.
The saga of Elian held the country’s attention for much of early 2000, with Miami’s Cuban expatriate community adamant that the boy stay in the United States, a federal judge ordering that they return him to his father, and Ms. Reno flying to Florida herself to negotiate.
After the Miami family ignored Ms. Reno’s deadline for them to comply with the judge’s order, she authorized federal agents to enter their home and seize the 6-year-old. A photo of a SWAT-equipped border patrol agent appearing to point a gun at the young Gonzales in a closet became a much-reproduced image — a visceral symbol of the passions felt on all sides of the debate.
After stepping down from the attorney general’s office in 2001, Ms. Reno returned to Florida and the next year ran for governor. Despite her almost universal name recognition, party officials threw their backing behind Tampa attorney Bill McBride, reportedly because Ms. Reno had not sought their blessing before embarking on her campaign.
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The day's most important stories.
Ms. Reno narrowly lost the nomination; McBride subsequently lost to Jeb Bush, the son and brother of two Republican presidents, in the general election.
Over the next decade, Ms. Reno gave speeches about criminal justice issues, particularly as they related to children. She served on the board of the Innocence Project, the nonprofit organization that works to exonerate the wrongly convicted through DNA evidence.
When asked by reporters what she wanted to do after Washington, she said she wanted to read, garden, and perfect her Eskimo roll, a kayaking maneuver. As during her time in the attorney general’s office, she often said that hers had been an exciting, interesting, lucky life.
“I’ve had a thoroughly good time,” she told the Miami Herald in 1998. “I have the opportunity to serve my country and it’s been extraordinary, and if I go home, I go home.”
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
skyth wrote: I'll be glad when the ads are off the air...I'm getting sick of the ones that are blatant lies or misinformation.
I swear that some of the local races, opponents are using the same voice over guy. Over the past few months I've traveled to PA, TX, and CA, and all of their commercial narrators have that same "Concerned Dad Voice: when you come home late and he's taking away your car keys for a week."
Also, there is a local guy named Brad Schnieder, and every time I hear his name or see a yard sign, I can't get South Park out of my head.
The local one that really bugs me is accusing someone running for having high property taxes and that his paycheck went up...When he's running for a position that doesn't control either of those things...
skyth wrote: I'll be glad when the ads are off the air...I'm getting sick of the ones that are blatant lies or misinformation.
I swear that some of the local races, opponents are using the same voice over guy. Over the past few months I've traveled to PA, TX, and CA, and all of their commercial narrators have that same "Concerned Dad Voice: when you come home late and he's taking away your car keys for a week."
Also, there is a local guy named Brad Schnieder, and every time I hear his name or see a yard sign, I can't get South Park out of my head.
The local one that really bugs me is accusing someone running for having high property taxes and that his paycheck went up...When he's running for a position that doesn't control either of those things...
That's nothing. Nearly every R ad i hear in Texas, particularly in 2014, all said they would fight Obama, fight Obamacare, secure our border, etc., and these were all STATE level positions. They're mostly using the same scripts this year, too.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
We've had a lot of outside R money flowing into the local house race.There are about 6 different adds I see on YouTube for Faso, all from PACs. I've seen a couple for Teachout, but only from her campaign.
Our current rep, Gibson (R-NY) is retiring, so it a close race. 45/42 Teachout last I checked.
The Senate race is hilarious. We've got Chuck Schumer against a R who has tied herself to Trump. Schumer is like 60 points ahead.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Feels like we're getting carpet bombed, being in one of the big Philly suburban counties they're always talking about.
I'll say this, though...I was out in Dutch country this weekend, and it's wall-to-wall Trumpers out there. Country folks have to be the most motivated segment right now, with the possible exception of the Hispanic population.
The results tomorrow are going to be really, really interesting. But I'm completely exhausted and disgusted with the election at this point. I might just avoid all coverage and find out what happened on Wednesday morning.
Too bad about Janet Reno. Waco was a disaster, but I'm not sure I can fault her - the ATF seems to consist of perpetual fethups regardless of administration, just like the NRA likes them - but that's another thread.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
-President: Clinton (duh). She'll get 300+ EV
-Senate: GOP retains slight majority with 51 seats. (it's a coin flip though)
-GOP: Not really paying attention as GOP will easily retain control
I'm also predicting a Clinton win, but after Brexit, a Trump victory wouldn't surprise me.
Anyway, here's another question for American dakka members:
Here in the UK, if you're a member of a political party, it's against party rules to vote for or campaign for another party.
Sounds reasonable.
On the news this morning, some Republican guy said he would be voting for Clinton.
Surely, that's grounds for getting booted out the GOP or having your membership rescinded?
Or does nobody care?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
That, and in this particular election, some Republicans stand to gain more respect from the general public if they oppose Trump.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'm also predicting a Clinton win, but after Brexit, a Trump victory wouldn't surprise me.
Anyway, here's another question for American dakka members:
Here in the UK, if you're a member of a political party, it's against party rules to vote for or campaign for another party.
Sounds reasonable.
On the news this morning, some Republican guy said he would be voting for Clinton.
Surely, that's grounds for getting booted out the GOP or having your membership rescinded?
Or does nobody care?
The party can punish you by running someone else against you and not fund you (recently happened here in cook county with the whole McDonald shooting case) but they can vote for what they "think" is in their constituents best interests. Also being an incumbent makes it hard to unseat you
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'm also predicting a Clinton win, but after Brexit, a Trump victory wouldn't surprise me.
Anyway, here's another question for American dakka members:
Here in the UK, if you're a member of a political party, it's against party rules to vote for or campaign for another party.
Sounds reasonable.
On the news this morning, some Republican guy said he would be voting for Clinton.
Surely, that's grounds for getting booted out the GOP or having your membership rescinded?
Or does nobody care?
The party can punish you by running someone else against you and not fund you (recently happened here in cook county with the whole McDonald shooting case) but they can vote for what they "think" is in their constituents best interests. Also being an incumbent makes it hard to unseat you
Additionally the party can pressure others to not put you on "good" committee seats and things like that...
The USA and the UK really are two countries separated by a common language.
In all honesty, it seems like a really common sense thing, and it surprises me that the USA does not have it.m
Anyway, there you go.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Nice little article on CNN about how there actually is one thing that Trump is, indeed, making great.
Fact checking.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/07 16:06:30
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
A day and a half and counting. The question is, will this election be called early in the evening or will the results be unknown until a week later as recounts are done?
