Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Mozzyfuzzy wrote: Won't Republican Senators and Congress people have to go along with Trump?
What with the whole "if we don't, we look like traitors to the base who just voted him in?"
The people who voted in Trump also re-elected a lot of Republican incumbents to Congress. So the people that allegedly voted for Trump as a protest against the GOP Establishment also voted for established GOP incumbents like McCain, Burr, Toomey, Rubio, etc. so people really don't want that much change and those Senators can keep voting and promoting policies the same as they did before Trump was elected and probably get re-elected again in another 4 years. When Obama had a supermajority of Democrats in Congress it took a crazy amount of cajoling, special favors and ton of federal dollars thrown at states to get the ACA passed strictly along party lines and that was really his only substantial legislative achievement in 8 years. Trump won't have a supermajority and we'll see what happens at the midterms so its unlikely the Trump manages to pass any significant federal legislation.
jmurph wrote: The idea that a self aggrandizing billionaire who inherited his wealth base, and is neck deep in the corporate oligarchy that undermined the American working class will somehow help them would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
This actually makes me very sad. There are obviously people out there who are so desperate for someone to stand up and represent them, to help them and support them in getting what they need. If Trump doesn't deliver on those promises to bring back their jobs and to help them (and it is not likely that he will), these people will once again have nobody fighting for them.
They voted for a change and a voice but they probably won't get either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 14:50:00
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Errr... I got a question for the USA citizens (or anyone else that might know), OK, Donald Trump is the new president, but isn't stuff like Congress and The House (or whaetver it's called) meant to regulate his potential?
In Greece for example the Government tried to restrict all television licences on national broadcast to a total of four. They voted for it easily enough, then it had to pass through what we call "Chamber of Overall" if I translate it right Συμβούλιο της Επικρατείας. It is made up from 25 Supreme Judges whose verdict is always final. Guess what, all 25 rejected it, so the government has now scrambled back to try and save face. Isn't that also the case in the USA, or similar at least? I mean, it's not like the president always does as he likes, right?
The US has congress, where elected representatives vote on legislation.
However congress is currently controlled by Republicans, the same party as Trump.
It remains to be seen whether they will actually put any checks and balances on Trump but personally I'm not really holding my breath. These are the same people who blamed Obama for not telling them a law allowing US citizens to sue foreign countries was dumb after they voted for it twice due to Obama vetoing it the first time.
You forgot they are about to get their SCotUS people in too. so they will have full control. Let the bible thumping begin!
Thanks Baby Boomers! They had to give us one more middle finger on the way out.
Democrats have thwarted Republican SCOTUS nominees before, hence the term "Borked" becoming part of our political lexicon.
The one consolation prize the people that don't like Trump can claim is that The Onion will have no shortageof qualitymaterialto mine in the coming years.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
This actually makes me very sad. There are obviously people out there who are so desperate for someone to stand up and represent them, to help them and support them in getting what they need. If Trump doesn't deliver on those promises to bring back their jobs and to help them (and it is not likely that he will), these people will once again have nobody fighting for them.
They voted for a change and a voice but they probably won't get either.
This is constant across the last 3 elections. 'America' is generally going to keep voting for a change candidate reflecting dissatisfaction with a tepid 'true' economy and future uncertainty.
LordofHats wrote: Under no conception of the term is Trump, a man who has been politically active for over 30 years (and run for president 3 times), not a member of the political class.
Which kind of just gets to the heart of why his win is so baffling. It's not that the anger and frustration isn't understandable. It's that people bemoaning his election don't understand how he is any of the things people seem to think he is, because he isn't. He's as you put it "a middle finger to the establishment" as if POTUS is something we should be deciding based on spite.
I said before that he was the Bella Swan of politics--all he had to do was be generically "rebellious", and everyone could project their own personal rebellion onto him.
What I've taken from this is that facts don't matter, what people want is a narrative. Trump was cast as the heroic outsider shaking up the system, and nothing ever really dented that. Working people voted for a millionaire who cheats on his taxes, Christians voted for an adulterer, and women voted for a sexual predator because of the sheer power of that storyline. It's even easier in the Information Age, where you can wrap yourself in an alternate world and don't need to agree with your opponents on even the most basic facts. Part of me hopes Trump delivers on every last crazy promise and has them go as horribly wrong as they can, just to see if anything can penetrate the power of the narrative.
America and the world survived Ronald Reagan just fine, so they'll probably survive this. But I think that the real damage has been to the way political campaigns are run, because the message has gone out that this is how you win elections.
Exalted.
I have lived most of my life thinking that facts and data matter, and that you can't really argue with facts. You can quibble about the interpretation but facts are facts. In the past year, due to Trump and Non-Trump related stuff; I have learned there is a very easy way to argue with facts and data. You ignore it. Instead you focus on how you feel. This election was all about the Feels.
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing
The Senate is only a simple majority for the Republicans. They did not get the 60 they need to block filibuster, so there is still some measure of control, still some need to work with the other side.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 14:58:18
jmurph wrote: The idea that a self aggrandizing billionaire who inherited his wealth base, and is neck deep in the corporate oligarchy that undermined the American working class will somehow help them would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
This actually makes me very sad. There are obviously people out there who are so desperate for someone to stand up and represent them, to help them and support them in getting what they need. If Trump doesn't deliver on those promises to bring back their jobs and to help them (and it is not likely that he will), these people will once again have nobody fighting for them.
They voted for a change and a voice but they probably won't get either.
Yeah electing a plutocrat to combat an oligarchy reminds me of one of my favorite WH40K quotes from 3rd Ed:
Thought for the Day:
"In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to show the way."
40K 3rd Ed pg 38
Mozzyfuzzy wrote: Won't Republican Senators and Congress people have to go along with Trump?
What with the whole "if we don't, we look like traitors to the base who just voted him in?"
The people who voted in Trump also re-elected a lot of Republican incumbents to Congress. So the people that allegedly voted for Trump as a protest against the GOP Establishment also voted for established GOP incumbents like McCain, Burr, Toomey, Rubio, etc. so people really don't want that much change and those Senators can keep voting and promoting policies the same as they did before Trump was elected and probably get re-elected again in another 4 years. When Obama had a supermajority of Democrats in Congress it took a crazy amount of cajoling, special favors and ton of federal dollars thrown at states to get the ACA passed strictly along party lines and that was really his only substantial legislative achievement in 8 years. Trump won't have a supermajority and we'll see what happens at the midterms so its unlikely the Trump manages to pass any significant federal legislation.
That was alos frustrating. Republicans basically got rewarded for their terrible behavior. That means such behavior will continue. That bothers me a lot.
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Errr... I got a question for the USA citizens (or anyone else that might know), OK, Donald Trump is the new president, but isn't stuff like Congress and The House (or whaetver it's called) meant to regulate his potential?
The recurring theme of the past 8 years is that we have a broken system. The system broke with the Bushes, and Obama promised to fix it (Hope, Change, and Unity, remember?) but largely didn't.
The Mandate of the People with the 'clean sweep' of the Execute, Legislate, and very likely Judicial branch is going to have to manifest itself itself in repairing the political system and showing ability to resolve orders of business. "Figure out how trade, borders, and response to violent conflict/terror are supposed to work, folks." In this way Trump actually has a stronger mandate than Obama did.
If no progress is made, especially with an unfriendly media, disgust will be palpable.
But therein lies the rub.
The "broken system" won't be fixed. The same representatives keep getting elected to Congress and the Senate.
Well, I thought Trump would win and he did.
I thought the Dems would win back the Senate...close, but no cigar.
I thought the House was still solid GOP, yup.
I thought the polls couldn't be trusted and that needs no expounding.
I r-e-a-l-l-y wish the Senate would have flipped just to keep total derpishness in check and the prospect of another Scalia out of the SCOTUS.
Easy E wrote: I have lived most of my life thinking that facts and data matter, and that you can't really argue with facts. You can quibble about the interpretation but facts are facts. In the past year, due to Trump and Non-Trump related stuff; I have learned there is a very easy way to argue with facts and data. You ignore it. Instead you focus on how you feel. This election was all about the Feels.
Hillary was a terrible matchup for Trump in many ways because of this. Which is a strange reversal from 1992, when Bush 41 just couldn't connect with voters and Bill did.
And that is the pitfall of the current system. Entrenched 'lifers' in the legislature just about guarantee status-quo.
I truly wish we had term limits across the board.
At heart I think Americans generally 'get' this part of it and simply hope for incremental progress every cycle.
No different in Ireland tbh. And likely anywhere else :(
Theres an old adage over here that our govt dosent run the country, the senior civil servants/various departments do.
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Errr... I got a question for the USA citizens (or anyone else that might know), OK, Donald Trump is the new president, but isn't stuff like Congress and The House (or whaetver it's called) meant to regulate his potential?
The recurring theme of the past 8 years is that we have a broken system. The system broke with the Bushes, and Obama promised to fix it (Hope, Change, and Unity, remember?) but largely didn't.
The Mandate of the People with the 'clean sweep' of the Execute, Legislate, and very likely Judicial branch is going to have to manifest itself itself in repairing the political system and showing ability to resolve orders of business. "Figure out how trade, borders, and response to violent conflict/terror are supposed to work, folks." In this way Trump actually has a stronger mandate than Obama did.
If no progress is made, especially with an unfriendly media, disgust will be palpable.
But therein lies the rub.
The "broken system" won't be fixed. The same representatives keep getting elected to Congress and the Senate.
It's always frustrating when the electorate decries Congress as being terrible but then re-elects the incumbents. The disconnect of Congress is terrible but my Senator/Representative is awesome has proven to be difficult to break through. It's also been extremely difficult to get those incumbents who benefit from their seniority to pass legislation that imposes term limits. We have term limits for PotUS we should have term limits for Congress setting the limit at 3 or 4 terms, that's plenty of time to represent your constituents.
Buzzsaw wrote: What monsters these people are... Why, what civilized nation doesn't fine people for refusing to acquiesce to the abasement of the place of worship! It's like the dark ages!
Yeah stepping on basic human rights is soooooo good. Especially funny as that violates also the supposed gods word in the bible. You could even say anybody who is against LGBT is against gods word and you would be 100% correct if you assume bible is gods word(and if not then using up bible against LGBT is even more silly)
Huh. You know, you've said a lot of funny things in this thread, but this joke you need to explain to me. Is it like one of those 'Thou Shall Not Kill' pure misapprehensions, or a more circuitous argument?
Ratius wrote: Is there anyone on here that likes/endorses/backs Trump?
Out of interest?
Forgive me, I was asleep. If you have a specific question and find the various 'Trump is literally Hitler' arguments... unsophisticated, I'd be happy to help. To be fair I was not a Trump backer in the Primaries, but came to see he was the only possible choice in yesterday's election.
tneva82 wrote: He did not just promise a wall. He promised a wall paid by Mexico.
Just wait for him to invade the country to get the money that way.
Peter Thiel said something interesting about Trump at the National Press Club a while ago. Paraphrasing, it basically went:
Journalists take Trump literally but not seriously. They want to know how he'll build the wall or ban Muslims. Voters take Trump seriously but not literally. They believe he'll be stronger on illegal immigration and fighting Islamic terrorism, not that he'll build the wall or stop all Muslim immigration.
This is an excellent point, and Theil's speech and Q&A at the press club really captured a lot of what made this happen. Not least of which how Theil was, put over-simply, 'excommunicated' as gay for his political views.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
The demonstration peaked about 1 a.m., when a Trump piñata was set on fire in a trash can outside a Westwood Boulevard store.
The small blaze aside, no major incidents were reported and police said the crowd was peaceful.
N.J. Omorogieva, 19, said she was “heartbroken” by the election’s result when she spotted the crowd in Westwood while walking home.
“Of course I joined in,” she said. “To give hugs to people who were overcome by devastation.”
In Oakland, demonstrators smashed a window at the Oakland Tribune newsroom and ignited trash containers and tires, police said.
The crowd broke windows on five businesses and vandalized another, said Oakland police spokeswoman Johnna Watson. One citation was issued but no one was arrested, she said.
Protesters also burned Trump in effigy, KNTV reported.
At UC Santa Barbara, hundreds marched near the campus, with some chanting, “Not my president. Not my president.”
One person carried a Mexican flag, according to video posted by the student newspaper, the Daily Nexus.
Well, this should all work out splendidly. What could possibly go wrong in an environment where peaceful gatherings may feature a spot of light arson?
So much for the Learjet-liberal elite establishment. Guess the media, Hollywood, academia, lobbyists and the political pundits are going to be pretty upset/stunned.
Middle America makes its voice heard. Turns out the blue-wall got shattered...
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
Possibly not, but when your platform is fear, ignorance and hate, then you get what you vote for
Trump didnt have much substance but sure had a lot of rhetoric.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
Captain, I'm surprised at you.
Don't you understand that the Progressive assessment of one's intelligence is directly related to your acquiescence to Progressive authority? So it is that ignorant hate is not a characteristic of an individual or an objective quality, but a state of being out of alignment with those values you have been assigned.
There is, after all, no love save love of Big Brother.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
The same number of black and hispanic voters for Trump as for Romney in 2012. Those damn bigots!
Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote: Errr... I got a question for the USA citizens (or anyone else that might know), OK, Donald Trump is the new president, but isn't stuff like Congress and The House (or whaetver it's called) meant to regulate his potential?
The recurring theme of the past 8 years is that we have a broken system. The system broke with the Bushes, and Obama promised to fix it (Hope, Change, and Unity, remember?) but largely didn't.
The Mandate of the People with the 'clean sweep' of the Execute, Legislate, and very likely Judicial branch is going to have to manifest itself itself in repairing the political system and showing ability to resolve orders of business. "Figure out how trade, borders, and response to violent conflict/terror are supposed to work, folks." In this way Trump actually has a stronger mandate than Obama did.
If no progress is made, especially with an unfriendly media, disgust will be palpable.
But therein lies the rub.
The "broken system" won't be fixed. The same representatives keep getting elected to Congress and the Senate.
I think it's dangerous to blame officials and institutions in our system before we take a hard look at ourselves. "They" reflect "us".
Is our system actually broken, or are our expectations unrealistic and our attitudes ugly and intolerant? "They" won't work together or govern because "We the People" don't want them compromising *one iota* with the filthy feths on the other side of the aisle.
The partisanship on both sides has become absolutely poisonous. And yet many people can't even identify their own poisonous behavior. Oh, they *say* that they give both sides a fair shot, but then they vote straight ticket in election after election.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
The same number of black and hispanic voters for Trump as for Romney in 2012. Those damn bigots!
People want to be heard.
Actually, he did better among black voters than Romney did, and I think among Hispanic voters too (but am not sure).
WrentheFaceless wrote: Looks like fear, ignorance and hate are just as strong of motivators as they were back in the 1930's
Brittan's got nothing on us x.x
And yet Trump won over 200 counties that voted for Obama, many twice, and those caused two states to flip. Were the folks there ignorant haters when they voted for Obama?
Possibly not, but when your platform is fear, ignorance and hate, then you get what you vote for
Trump didnt have much substance but sure had a lot of rhetoric.
And Hillary's only substance was Trump Will Push The Button! and Trump is Buddies With Putin. Her messaging was just as negative, if not more because she had to distract from the scum bag she is.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/09 15:27:16
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
3000
4000 
