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So I get that GKs are all about teleportation, but it that really the only reason?
Drop Pods would really make Dreadnaughts and Purifiers top-notch units

It use to be about balance before the "ally with anyone you want now". Take the good with the bad.

Before you would have good units, great units and poor units. The poor units were suppose to hold back the great units. Sadly now anyone can take just great units and pick and choose from what book to use now, without any negative traits. So now as long as you have the money for it, you can take the good with the good.

Nobody has to take the bad anymore unless they want a fluffy list now.

Because GK aren't allowed to have fluffy lists and be competitive.

But it really is so GK don't table Orks, DE, and Daemons over the course of two turns. Still think they should be allowed to DS along with Purgation squads. Because you have to buy a Rhino for either of these units they suck.

Davor wrote:
It use to be about balance before the "ally with anyone you want now". Take the good with the bad.

Before you would have good units, great units and poor units. The poor units were suppose to hold back the great units. Sadly now anyone can take just great units and pick and choose from what book to use now, without any negative traits. So now as long as you have the money for it, you can take the good with the good.

Nobody has to take the bad anymore unless they want a fluffy list now.

Which is why Allies need to be restructured. 3 levels would be fine: Battle Bros, Convenience & Come the Apoc
-BBs should be as they are now, but disallow sharing transports in any circumstance 9deployment or otherwise) and IC's can only join units of their Faction (to limit Deathstars). After that, sharing Psychic powers won't be so bad.
-Convenience: As they are now, but make them roll 'One Eye Open' within 6". On a 1, the unit is -1BS/+1WS as they are distracted by their suspicion of the new-found "allie"
-Come the Apoc: As they are now, but automatically make your army Unbound, including the lose of any Formation bonuses.

Back on topic, it seems that GKs not having Drop Pods was a balance decision that really doesn't work in 7th.

 Quickjager wrote:

But it really is so GK don't table Orks, DE, and Daemons over the course of two turns. Still think they should be allowed to DS along with Purgation squads. Because you have to buy a Rhino for either of these units they suck.

Yeah, I can see that. Although DSing/Teleporting Dreadnaughts would be fun as hell.

-

Same reason why we don't have Biker GK either.

The original Inquisition Codex never had such units for GK, so when it got updated for 5th edition Ward never thought about them. 7th edition was just a trimming down of the codex so they never rectified that error.

I could see it being a byproduct of the environment they fight in. If a world is going full on demon a physical trip through the atmosphere might not be the best idea. Better to warp in and start purging the unclean. The above is recognized as a thin excuse.

The real reality is that grey knights should not have been fleshed out to be a full army on it's own outside of specific scenarios.

I would imagine, just from a fluff perspective...a Grey Knight force would be rather small, elite. They might be traveling on ships which would not carry drop pods (or the force may not have the resources to retrieve them etc.).

I have to agree with Hounds, the Grey Knights should not have become an army, but should have remained a single unit selection for Imperial forces.

Honestly the Imperium should really consist of: Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Imperial Agents (to include Grey Knights, inquisitors, assassins, sisters of battle etc.). This was a codex which was planned but never released in 2nd edition. Some early mentions of it were in White Dwarf but it never surfaced.

Why would marines have ships big enough for pods when there are only 1000 per chapter?

Short answer? They wouldn't.

Because pods, while they are armoured and travel extremely quickly, can still be shot down. The GK chapter has access to so much tech they can have everyone teleport, so there is no reason to risk being shot down.

Jup they teleport or use superior flyers, there is no need for drop pods.

The GK teleport, they don't need drop pods and some of the places they conduct war would be problematic for GK if they did.

The GK will fight on daemonworlds where physics aren't reliable and something that relies on gravity won't necessarily operate as intended. Their teleporters are basically work as fields that protect them from warp energies and are unaffected in these environments.

Another aspect of it is that GK generally operate as smaller more rapidly deployed strike forces... To that end they probably wouldn't want to bother having the specialized units and personnel necessary for recovery and maintenance of drop pods slowing down their operational tempo. IF GK were to use drop pods of any sort they would probably use ones similar to chaos dreadclaws, something that can fly under its own power for retrieval.

It's never fluff reasons - fluff is supposed to give you motivation to buy stuff, not impede you from buying stuff.
GW had a new Stormraven kit to sell for the 5th ed codex that could transport Dreads and Purifiers. No point allowing Pods when they had Stormraven kits to sell.

The 7th ed codex stripped stuff out rather than adding. I presume we'll see drop pods in the next codex.

In the old 5th ed meta, Purifiers would have been insane in drop pods. You could have dropped a 90% Purifier army into the middle of any army and just fried the whole thing. There is a reason why everyone except the Purifiers could drop without a pod in the army back then.

I guess while they weren't very good at it, at least they cared a little about internal balance of a codex back before the ally matrix.

They have the most reliable teleporters in the whole Imperium. That probably beats Drop Pods.

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
They have the most reliable teleporters in the whole Imperium. That probably beats Drop Pods.

Having played a GK army that used deep strike for most of my units, no it doesn't D: I can't count the amount of times I would scatter into oblivion. Their reliable teleporters apparently need people that aren't drunk to control the teleporters.

I would much prefer a personal teleporter for the purifiers. Shunting them in with dread-knights would be so boss.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I would much prefer a personal teleporter for the purifiers. Shunting them in with dread-knights would be so boss.

Or at the very least give Purifiers and GK Dreadnoughts the ability to Deep Strike just like Strike squads can.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Same reason why we don't have Biker GK either.

The original Inquisition Codex never had such units for GK, so when it got updated for 5th edition Ward never thought about them. 7th edition was just a trimming down of the codex so they never rectified that error.

Ward didn't have control what models are made for the codex, he can't exactly write rules if they didn't invent biker models!

 Purifier wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
They have the most reliable teleporters in the whole Imperium. That probably beats Drop Pods.

Having played a GK army that used deep strike for most of my units, no it doesn't D: I can't count the amount of times I would scatter into oblivion. Their reliable teleporters apparently need people that aren't drunk to control the teleporters.

I would love it if GK got their own deepstrike table OR only 1D6 scatter. The best teleporter means diddly unless it actually does something.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Same reason why we don't have Biker GK either.

The original Inquisition Codex never had such units for GK, so when it got updated for 5th edition Ward never thought about them. 7th edition was just a trimming down of the codex so they never rectified that error.

Ward didn't have control what models are made for the codex, he can't exactly write rules if they didn't invent biker models!

Mordrak and co begs to differ

failing that, BA's Stormraven.

 Purifier wrote:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
They have the most reliable teleporters in the whole Imperium. That probably beats Drop Pods.

Having played a GK army that used deep strike for most of my units, no it doesn't D: I can't count the amount of times I would scatter into oblivion. Their reliable teleporters apparently need people that aren't drunk to control the teleporters.

I was mainly reffering to their fluff. Rules wise, they're not so hot, I know.

Per fluff, GK have and use Drop Pods. See the original Grey novals.

So why are there no Drop Pods in the GK codex?

Because the 5th GK codex was written for a 6th edition BRB that never occured. There was a leaked 6th edition BRB, now refered to by GW as the Heretics BRB, that allowed for deep striking units reduced scatter and to charge upon arrival depending on how close they arrived to the enemy. The book also included a parry rule that allowed models with a CCW to better theier invul save by 1, or gain a 6+ invul save if they did not have an invul save. 6th edition hit with a very streamlined rule set that did not include the new deep strike and parry rules; unfortunately for the GK, the GK 6th edition codex not only removed the Inquisition but also the invul buff from Nemesis Force Swords. The was one of the main examples of how GW use to release rule books, with half of them written for the current rule set while the half written for the rule set that is about the come out next. Most people called it "codex creep", but it would be more accurate to call it "out of touch with their market".

The new management at GW seem to have stopped the old release schedule, and replaced it with a shotgun approach of blasting us with new rules and see what sticks. Hopefully they work out their internal issues soon, and either fix the glaring holes in the GK or give us new units that make us forget the holes (like they do with the other codexes).

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Per fluff, GK have and use Drop Pods. See the original Grey novals.

So why are there no Drop Pods in the GK codex?

Because the 5th GK codex was written for a 6th edition BRB that never occured. There was a leaked 6th edition BRB, now refered to by GW as the Heretics BRB, that allowed for deep striking units reduced scatter and to charge upon arrival depending on how close they arrived to the enemy. The book also included a parry rule that allowed models with a CCW to better theier invul save by 1, or gain a 6+ invul save if they did not have an invul save. 6th edition hit with a very streamlined rule set that did not include the new deep strike and parry rules; unfortunately for the GK, the GK 6th edition codex not only removed the Inquisition but also the invul buff from Nemesis Force Swords. The was one of the main examples of how GW use to release rule books, with half of them written for the current rule set while the half written for the rule set that is about the come out next. Most people called it "codex creep", but it would be more accurate to call it "out of touch with their market".

The new management at GW seem to have stopped the old release schedule, and replaced it with a shotgun approach of blasting us with new rules and see what sticks. Hopefully they work out their internal issues soon, and either fix the glaring holes in the GK or give us new units that make us forget the holes (like they do with the other codexes).

SJ

This does not explain why purifiers don't have deep strike.

Just because you have something in a novel doesn't mean you get it in your codex. There are Gue'Vesa in novels bit they aren't in tr Tau codex

 Xenomancers wrote:

This does not explain why purifiers don't have deep strike.

No, but my post here does:

 Purifier wrote:
In the old 5th ed meta, Purifiers would have been insane in drop pods. You could have dropped a 90% Purifier army into the middle of any army and just fried the whole thing. There is a reason why everyone except the Purifiers could drop without a pod in the army back then.

I guess while they weren't very good at it, at least they cared a little about internal balance of a codex back before the ally matrix.

Pick up a 5th ed GK codex and check out what was special about the Purifiers and you will realise how unbalanced their special power was. It was only the fact that they had to footslog that made them unable to simply wipe your army off the table the second they dropped in en masse.

"So why don't they have it now, then?" Because they didn't have it then. GW are really bad at remembering why something works in a certain way, and they simply copy paste old units and make some changes if they want to. They don't rebalance units, they just remake them if they think something else makes more sense or is more fun.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Per fluff, GK have and use Drop Pods. See the original Grey novals.

So why are there no Drop Pods in the GK codex?

Because the 5th GK codex was written for a 6th edition BRB that never occured. There was a leaked 6th edition BRB, now refered to by GW as the Heretics BRB, that allowed for deep striking units reduced scatter and to charge upon arrival depending on how close they arrived to the enemy. The book also included a parry rule that allowed models with a CCW to better theier invul save by 1, or gain a 6+ invul save if they did not have an invul save. 6th edition hit with a very streamlined rule set that did not include the new deep strike and parry rules; unfortunately for the GK, the GK 6th edition codex not only removed the Inquisition but also the invul buff from Nemesis Force Swords. The was one of the main examples of how GW use to release rule books, with half of them written for the current rule set while the half written for the rule set that is about the come out next. Most people called it "codex creep", but it would be more accurate to call it "out of touch with their market".

The new management at GW seem to have stopped the old release schedule, and replaced it with a shotgun approach of blasting us with new rules and see what sticks. Hopefully they work out their internal issues soon, and either fix the glaring holes in the GK or give us new units that make us forget the holes (like they do with the other codexes).

SJ

This does not explain why purifiers don't have deep strike.

Short answer: Balance.

Long answer: PAGK seem to have been intended to be scouts rather than line troops, acting more like traditional Marines. Purifiers not having Deep Strike, which was suppose to be accurate Deep Strike with the ability to assault upon arrival, would have been "too powerful", therefore they are required to use conventional transports.

SJ

I am surprised reading the comments people don't even know the Grey Knight fluff why GK teleport instead of using Drop Pods.

Are people really wanting Drop Pods because they want to win with plastic toy soldiers or do people want DP because they think it's fluffy?

Unless the fluff has changed (could have I stopped trying to do GK after they lost their third edition codex) there is a reason why Grey Knights don't use drop pods. (Novel aside, not sure why they used it, but I think that would be wrong, but then again I could be wrong so please prove me wrong.)

So to my knowledge Grey Knights NEVER use Drop Pods. Does it really need to be explained? Let's see how many people really know the fluff of the GK.

Grey knights Dreadnoughts are super-cruddy because there aren't drop pods. Sure, you can spend a ton of points on a Storm Raven, but it's not totally viable. I'd say let them deepstrike if they are only a single dread and no deepstriking for units of 2 or 3.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Grey knights Dreadnoughts are super-cruddy because there aren't drop pods. Sure, you can spend a ton of points on a Storm Raven, but it's not totally viable. I'd say let them deepstrike if they are only a single dread and no deepstriking for units of 2 or 3.

Good fluffy house rule. I would let my opponent do that.