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Yes, I agree, but it's still all subjective, innit. I mean we can foam at the mouth as much as we want but others can still go "Urm... nah... they're Spess Muhreens!"

I mean they're wrong, but it's not something that can be objectively proved at any point, is it? Not unless we start treating the whole thing like a Wittgensteinian language game and define every word we're using.

Bah.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
Yes, I agree, but it's still all subjective, innit. I mean we can foam at the mouth as much as we want but others can still go "Urm... nah... they're Spess Muhreens!"

I mean they're wrong, but it's not something that can be objectively proved at any point, is it? Not unless we start treating the whole thing like a Wittgensteinian language game and define every word we're using.

Bah.

If you're saying we should just move on, I agree.

Which a lot of people must have done since they are so unpopular. Like I said there are small elements that currently exist I could see them expanding on and making the primary focus of the army to make them stand out.

Imagine if the Sisters of the Fire Cast came out tomorrow. That would be ridiculous. What sets them apart from some minor lore tweaks and being female? They are basically just the Tau Empire.

How about the Sisters of Omissiah? Sisters of the Necrontyr? It's ridiculous and boils it down to oh look here is an all female army just to have an all female army. They are totally not just a minor boring spin on their parent factions.

Even their name is so boring. Sisters of Battle... snore. About the most generic thing in 40k. Everyone fights in every faction. So what do they call themselves the sisters of... battle. Wow.

From the top down from a lore and visual design perspective they and even marketing they are a disaster. However that does not mean with some proper development and something to set them apart from being so generic (except female) could see their popularity rise.

Their lore has also not been handled well. Oh use my blood to protect yourself senpai. I exaggerate a little, but it's true. They often get upstaged.

Their whole army sucks and that's why no one plays it. Seriously. The metal minis are the cherry on top.

Now as I said there are ways to make cool space nuns, but they way they were handled is the real travesty of lack of creativity.

There have been countless polls on dakka and other forums "If the SoB got an update to plastic would you play them" and almost universally the poll results are no. SoB fans are a small super minority. I'm not knocking you for liking it just explaining why I don't and a lot of people out there list many of the reasons I do. I'm a harsh critic because I believe anything can be made successful and cool. I want the developers to see what I say and maybe take some inspiraiton for what to do or not to do on how to approach it.

Sororitas have gloves that give off a medieval brigandine-armor feel, while Astartes have plated science fiction power armor gauntlets. Astartes have broad, sci-fi looking boots, while Sororitas have boots that look something closer to medieval platemail. Sororitas have shoulders styled after epaulettes to an extent, with decorative cloth sleeves hanging from them, while the iconic Astartes pauldron is a single curved plate that covers the shoudler and upper arms. The torsos of each are drastically different, with AStartes torso bearing a single decorative note on its chestplate in most depictions (usually an aquila) but otherwise often looking like a bundle of armored cables and intersecting plates that continue the sci-fi feel of the armor. And hte Sabbat pattern helm is very distinct, unlike anything in the Astartes line, either the standard helmet styles or the beakies, neither are like the sleek Sabbat helmet.

The statement is just... factually wrong. It's like looking at a Stormtrooper and saying "oh, they have fancy helmets, they must be Space Marines". Or seeing Bullgryns and thinking "crude armor and big guns, oh, they must be Orks."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Even their name is so boring. Sisters of Battle... snore. About the most generic thing in 40k. Everyone fights in every faction. So what do they call themselves the sisters of... battle. Wow.

This from a guy who thinks Space Marines, the most generic of genericness, any time they see someone in armor. I'll take your complaint about their name with a bucket of salt.

 Gamgee wrote:
There have been countless polls on dakka and other forums "If the SoB got an update to plastic would you play them" and almost universally the poll results are no.

Uh... no. There's always been a huge number of yes votes to those polls.

I don't like Space Marines actually. That's pretty well known on these forums. Anyways personal attacks aside I'm starting to repeat myself so I'll be going now.

 Gamgee wrote:
Their whole army sucks and that's why no one plays it. Seriously. The metal minis are the cherry on top.

...

There have been countless polls on dakka and other forums "If the SoB got an update to plastic would you play them" and almost universally the poll results are no. SoB fans are a small super minority. I'm not knocking you for liking it just explaining why I don't and a lot of people out there list many of the reasons I do. I'm a harsh critic because I believe anything can be made successful and cool. I want the developers to see what I say and maybe take some inspiraiton for what to do or not to do on how to approach it.

The army sucks; but you're not knocking us for liking the army, we're just wrong, because no-one plays Sisters.

I think you're aiming for "constructive criticism" and hitting "being a numptie" instead, chum.

 Pouncey wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Absent a revamp, existing beats the hell out of not existing, simple as that. The fact is, if GW ever finishes selling their stock of variant #1, they'll swithc to selling variant #2. But first, they need to finish selling the stuff the cast decades ago, and that ain't happening.

If they haven't run down their stock after over a decade... either that's one hell of an unpopular army we're fans of, or GW grossly overestimated how many they'd need to make.

A little of column A, a little of column B...

If you go to the GW website, consider that they're also still selling squads of 2E Tallarn and other metal infantry.

 Gamgee wrote:
personal attacks aside

If you think I made a personal attack, please feel free to report my post. I would not hesitate to do the same if I felt you had done so.

But I did not make one. I pointed out the simple fact of the matter that there are huge differences, regardless of whether or not you're willing to see them. If you blindly go about saying "sisters wear power armor so they must be marines", you might as well say "Eldar are Space Marines because they wear full body armor and are elite warriors", and "tau are cadians because their armor is kinda similar and they both use gunlines", as well. Or "tyranids must be orks because they're both hordes of aliens who use huge numbers to overwhelm their enemies".

If you willfully disregard the meaningful differences between any factions, everything starts to look the same.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Absent a revamp, existing beats the hell out of not existing, simple as that. The fact is, if GW ever finishes selling their stock of variant #1, they'll swithc to selling variant #2. But first, they need to finish selling the stuff the cast decades ago, and that ain't happening.

If they haven't run down their stock after over a decade... either that's one hell of an unpopular army we're fans of, or GW grossly overestimated how many they'd need to make.

A little of column A, a little of column B...

If you go to the GW website, consider that they're also still selling squads of 2E Tallarn and other metal infantry.

Probably because they're still making them.

Which would make it impossible to run down the stocks if you're just gonna keep making more.

If I remember even the Exorcist can't make the Immolator as it was designed to, as the Exorcist lacks the clear canopy for the Immolator's top.

Shame too, the Immolator was the only set that didn't have a good reason for them to squat (the only all-plastic sisters set) and it was a kickass model. I was gonna use them for my GK's razorbacks.

I don't think GW is making more of them, especially not the 2E Guardsmen when plastic Cadians are pennies to produce.

Oh they're still making the old metal guardsmen. Just that any excess cost is passed on to the consumer instead.

They're also still making them because they're still in demand. Not everyone uses plastic Cadians.

That said, I stopped buying my metal Guard from Games Workshop about the time they stopped doing their Bitz sales... so... 2006? 2007?

What would really kick up a sisters army is more male witch hunters loved that model.

OgreChubbs wrote:
What would really kick up a sisters army is more male witch hunters loved that model.

You mean more Inquisitors?

Don't feed the troll!

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
Don't feed the troll!

How can you tell it's a troll?

Some people legitimately don't know enough about the Sisters of Battle that such confusion might be out of genuine lack of knowledge.

Not really Poe's Law, but similar?

 Pouncey wrote:

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
Don't feed the troll!

How can you tell it's a troll?

Some people legitimately don't know enough about the Sisters of Battle that such confusion might be out of genuine lack of knowledge.

Not really Poe's Law, but similar?

A brief read-through of the last couple of pages alone gives us a heated discussion about male special characters in the Sisters of Battle 'dex.

It's trolling.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
Don't feed the troll!

How can you tell it's a troll?

Some people legitimately don't know enough about the Sisters of Battle that such confusion might be out of genuine lack of knowledge.

Not really Poe's Law, but similar?

A brief read-through of the last couple of pages alone gives us a heated discussion about male special characters in the Sisters of Battle 'dex.

It's trolling.

Ah, okay.

I've been on WoW forums the past couple of days.

Currently engaged in an argument with fans of bikini armor about my proposed explanation of how bikini armor could make sense in WoW.

I don't even know why they're arguing with me.

 Gamgee wrote:
I don't like Space Marines actually. That's pretty well known on these forums. Anyways personal attacks aside I'm starting to repeat myself so I'll be going now.

Given your borderline obsession with the Tau and how everything about them is the best thing in the history of the universe - I think it might be best to tr and understand that perhaps, maybe other people are equally enthused about other factions.

 Pouncey wrote:
Erm, I'm suddenly remembering Bretonnians. They had the fleur de lis too, despite being named Bretonnians.

Well, Brittany is part of France . And I don't know how they are named in English but on the French book I have, many of them have very French-sounding names, unlike the Empire ones that have German-sounding names.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Erm, I'm suddenly remembering Bretonnians. They had the fleur de lis too, despite being named Bretonnians.

Well, Brittany is part of France . And I don't know how they are named in English but on the French book I have, many of them have very French-sounding names, unlike the Empire ones that have German-sounding names.

Yeah, the Bretonnians are basically 100 Years War French knights paired with English peasantry, set in Magic France with a healthy dollop of King Arthur and the Round Table as seen through L'Mort D'Arthur, as if interpreted by drunken Tolkein. I love 'em!

Hey, regarding that fan math that resulted in there likely being 10 billion Sisters of Battle... Did anyone notice that it essentially assumed that 1 in 50 Imperial women are put through the training to become Sisters of Battle at all?

Given how many billions of people live in each hive city, having 1 in 50 of them get pulled out to start Sororitas training seems way too high. Even if they account for the vast bulk of the 99% of "stuff happens" cases accounted for later on, that would only drive it down to 1 in 5,000. The population of a Hive City is measured in tens of billions, so it would mean that each Hive City is supplying more than 5 million potential Sisters of Battle to the Schola.

I think maybe the math just assumes that more people would even be considered for even starting the training than really would be.

 Pouncey wrote:
How can you tell it's a troll?

Because it's ogrechubbs.

Misogynistic trolls aside, I assumed a few dozen millions, myself. 36-72 million is not a far-fetched number in this setting given the trillions of humans. Billions might very well be overstating it, but millions is not. Especially if, as suggested in the Cain series, female Progenies students are heavily pushed towards the Sisters and away from the commissariat, stormtroopers, and other Schola Progenium schools.

 Melissia wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
How can you tell it's a troll?

Because it's ogrechubbs.

Misogynistic trolls aside, I assumed a few dozen millions, myself. 36-72 million is not a far-fetched number in this setting given the trillions of humans. Billions might very well be overstating it, but millions is not. Especially if, as suggested in the Cain series, female Progenies students are heavily pushed towards the Sisters and away from the commissariat, stormtroopers, and other Schola Progenium schools.

Dozens of millions would make sense, absolutely.

They should be more common than Space Marines, who number at or under one million, but less common than Imperial Guard, who number in the tens to hundreds of billions.

36-72 million would fall into that perfectly fine.

Well, without much effort, my homebrew Sector was producing billions of Imperial Guard.

I don't see any issue with there being billions of Sororitas throughout the Imperium - consider that there's also the Orders Famulous, Hospitaller and Dialogus as well as the Orders Militant.

The Imperial Guard numbers in the hundreds of billions, the population of the Imperium numbers in the trillions. These are Quite Big Numbers.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
Well, without much effort, my homebrew Sector was producing billions of Imperial Guard.

I don't see any issue with there being billions of Sororitas throughout the Imperium - consider that there's also the Orders Famulous, Hospitaller and Dialogus as well as the Orders Militant.

The Imperial Guard numbers in the hundreds of billions, the population of the Imperium numbers in the trillions. These are Quite Big Numbers.

Correction.

The population of the Imperium numbers in the quadrillions.

Imperial Guard are actually only about 1 in 100,000 Imperial citizens, and that's if you assume there are around 200 billion of them.

 Melissia wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
How can you tell it's a troll?

Because it's ogrechubbs.

Misogynistic trolls aside, I assumed a few dozen millions, myself. 36-72 million is not a far-fetched number in this setting given the trillions of humans. Billions might very well be overstating it, but millions is not. Especially if, as suggested in the Cain series, female Progenies students are heavily pushed towards the Sisters and away from the commissariat, stormtroopers, and other Schola Progenium schools.

Dont the non militant orders outnumber the Militant ones by a huge amount.

Its the usual Black Library authors have a huge variety of female characters in all walks of life and roels withn the Imperium whilst GW runs a mile from the idea :(

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
How can you tell it's a troll?

Because it's ogrechubbs.

Misogynistic trolls aside, I assumed a few dozen millions, myself. 36-72 million is not a far-fetched number in this setting given the trillions of humans. Billions might very well be overstating it, but millions is not. Especially if, as suggested in the Cain series, female Progenies students are heavily pushed towards the Sisters and away from the commissariat, stormtroopers, and other Schola Progenium schools.

Dont the non militant orders outnumber the Militant ones by a huge amount.

Its the usual Black Library authors have a huge variety of female characters in all walks of life and roels withn the Imperium whilst GW runs a mile from the idea :(

My understanding is that the non-militant orders combined roughly equal the Sisters of Battle in number.

ah right - probably just my head canon