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I don't see the sanity behind the banning of religious/cultural clothing items when France are supposedly attempting to fulfil the idea of "living together" (whatever that means) by doing it.

Call me biased for saying it considering I've lived in 2 different Islamic States for most my life, but such clothing has never worried or insulted me despite it surrounding me in the droves. Cultural divide in both Dubai and Qatar is non existent, as it is a big mish mash of people from all over the world, much like many populations in France, and everyone is very tolerant of each other's choice of clothing, provided it's not very exposed. In the same light people get on very well too despite coming from many different backgrounds and countries - all without any need for dress code bans outside of overly exposing clothing, which is actually something that makes sense.

France's acceptance of refugees may be all well and good, but their treatment by the native French public based solely on their background is certainly a massive issue regarding racism.

Back again on topic

I wasn't aware that GW prints a lot of their stuff years before release. Regardless, 10 years of preparation doesn't seem at all business savvy regarding a product line that may or may not be successful.

G.A

migooo wrote:I think the sleeves thing was an excuse but it has become a bit of a joke.

Keep it mind the excuse was originally made 6 or 7 years ago, which was before GW had made the whole hearted shift to digital sculpting. In that period something like the robed arms of the Skitarii would be challenging. GW at that point was still doing a mixed approach to scultping where some components were still being physically sculpted and then digitized. A detail like the robed sleeves are the sort of detail that could easily be sculpted by hand and run into problems when it came to add the digitized model to an injection mold. This is where the slight differences in manufacturing methods is important. A hand sculpted piece being reproduced as a pewter or resin casting can have upto 5° undercut while something produced in an injection mold has to have a minimum 5° draft angle. Something like a robed sleeve when physically sculpted would tend to have undercuts which in plastic means either adjustments would have to be made in how the cloth folds upon its self as well as how the part is oriented in the mold cavity. Those adjustments are easy when a design is entirely done digitally but not as easily done when you consider where GW was those years ago. The 6-7 years was when the excuse was made; we really don't know when that effort was made it could have been years before that.

Institutional inertia becomes the next challenge because management will always remember a project that failed to perform and return on their investment and that makes it harder for those who want to come back to a project to do so.

 General Annoyance wrote:
I don't see the sanity behind the banning of religious/cultural clothing items when France are supposedly attempting to fulfil the idea of "living together" (whatever that means) by doing it.

Call me biased for saying it considering I've lived in 2 different Islamic States for most my life, but such clothing has never worried or insulted me despite it surrounding me in the droves. Cultural divide in both Dubai and Qatar is non existent, as it is a big mish mash of people from all over the world, much like many populations in France, and everyone is very tolerant of each other's choice of clothing, provided it's not very exposed. In the same light people get on very well too despite coming from many different backgrounds and countries - all without any need for dress code bans outside of overly exposing clothing, which is actually something that makes sense.

France's acceptance of refugees may be all well and good, but their treatment by the native French public based solely on their background is certainly a massive issue regarding racism.

Back again on topic

I wasn't aware that GW prints a lot of their stuff years before release. Regardless, 10 years of preparation doesn't seem at all business savvy regarding a product line that may or may not be successful.

G.A

Again its to keep public spaces Secular which is a good thing.

I'm glad you bought up those two states. Let's completely ignore the Religious police in those regions for a bit shall we?

When you go to a country you should adapt to the Cultural and Social norms of said county, France wanting to protect its culture and way of life is not racist, no matter how the hard left would wish us too believe. Also I find the fact that you claim everybody is accepted, yet I'm not allowed there simply because of a stamp in my passport makes that argument mute.

The argument is made that the Burka and Niqab are Cultural dress rather than religious. And possibly that's true. However I have no right to direct French law as they have no right to direct British, again I refuse to believe a country that evicts its own people for a supposed transient population is racist because they want to keep French culture french. The large Turkish population in France is a problem they don't integrate they stay with their own, and often their French is broken or non existent.


The fact that people in a country have to adapt to newcomers instead of those adapting because you know they could have stayed where that culture exists. I'm sorry its not racist to want to keep your way of life. That is all France is doing. Sorus sponsored media has a lot to answer for.

Again I'm happy to discuss this via PM.
And back to topic

Gw often has models that never see the light of day only to be dug up months or years later. Some test figures were released as collector series things.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 aka_mythos wrote:

migooo wrote:I think the sleeves thing was an excuse but it has become a bit of a joke.

Keep it mind the excuse was originally made 6 or 7 years ago, which was before GW had made the whole hearted shift to digital sculpting. In that period something like the robed arms of the Skitarii would be challenging. GW at that point was still doing a mixed approach to scultping where some components were still being physically sculpted and then digitized. A detail like the robed sleeves are the sort of detail that could easily be sculpted by hand and run into problems when it came to add the digitized model to an injection mold. This is where the slight differences in manufacturing methods is important. A hand sculpted piece being reproduced as a pewter or resin casting can have upto 5° undercut while something produced in an injection mold has to have a minimum 5° draft angle. Something like a robed sleeve when physically sculpted would tend to have undercuts which in plastic means either adjustments would have to be made in how the cloth folds upon its self as well as how the part is oriented in the mold cavity. Those adjustments are easy when a design is entirely done digitally but not as easily done when you consider where GW was those years ago. The 6-7 years was when the excuse was made; we really don't know when that effort was made it could have been years before that.

Institutional inertia becomes the next challenge because management will always remember a project that failed to perform and return on their investment and that makes it harder for those who want to come back to a project to do so.

I think the Skitarii are fantastic kits and the army is possibly the best GW has made. Those arms n things just show you how far they've come

I suppose the relevant point is that given the funky robes of the Skitarii, there's no longer any excuse at all for the Sisters not to be produced in plastic.

For me, the High Elf plastics from WFB 8E were proof enough that GW has the technical ability to produce Sisters in plastic. And that ignores the Dark Angels dresses, which are even older.

It's obvious that GW chooses not to produce plastic Sisters, not that they lack the technical ability to do so.

And that reason is almost certainly a dollars and cents (or pounds and pence) problem of GW not being able to make a sound business case to do so.

I think it's GW's own inertia at this point. Whatever problems they had in the past their technology can now solve and it's just a case of either finding the time or convincing management that it's worth while. There isn't much any of us can do in either case. While we know they are different things, I think if FW's Sisters of Silence sell well whenever they're released I think it's proof against GWs greatest apprehension as far as SoB potentially not doing well just because they're a female army in a male dominated customer base.

migooo wrote:
Yes the fact they still allow hundreds of thousands run rampant

You sound like Trump. But this is off topic, and frankly after that post I'm really not interested in talking with you about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think it's GW's own inertia at this point. Whatever problems they had in the past their technology can now solve and it's just a case of either finding the time or convincing management that it's worth while. There isn't much any of us can do in either case. While we know they are different things, I think if FW's Sisters of Silence sell well whenever they're released I think it's proof against GWs greatest apprehension as far as SoB potentially not doing well just because they're a female army in a male dominated customer base.

Maybe. I just hope that they don't link the two in the lore.

 Melissia wrote:

migooo wrote:
Yes the fact they still allow hundreds of thousands run rampant

You sound like Trump. But this is off topic, and frankly after that post I'm really not interested in talking with you about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think it's GW's own inertia at this point. Whatever problems they had in the past their technology can now solve and it's just a case of either finding the time or convincing management that it's worth while. There isn't much any of us can do in either case. While we know they are different things, I think if FW's Sisters of Silence sell well whenever they're released I think it's proof against GWs greatest apprehension as far as SoB potentially not doing well just because they're a female army in a male dominated customer base.

Maybe. I just hope that they don't link the two in the lore.

I'm in Europe where there are thousands of people swarming our borders..... It's a fact!, I don't care if they come to work but they don't Britain is not filled with gold. I'm sorry I don't want my country flooded with people who don't want to work and drain are already poor resources thanks to a stupid brexit that's cost us Billions already.

Lastly on this I'm quite happy to discuss it with you. But as I'm aware certain people are uncomfortable with facts ( such as certain presidential candidates and their oponenents whose names are used as insults ) ill leave the invitation open via PM.


Sisters of Battle were extremely popular when they had their first release in the 90s so much a small squad turned into an army. They sold out.

I'm not sure if many remember this fact. many people do not like metal figures this is why they stalled during the Witchunter Codex

A full squad of sisters with boltguns and the extras costs you nearly 100 pounds where as any other costs you a maximum of 30 it's simple economics for the reasons they don't sell.

I implore gw to just release one squad box and see how they do. I'm sure they would sell fine I'd probably get 6.

 Melissia wrote:

migooo wrote:
Yes the fact they still allow hundreds of thousands run rampant

You sound like Trump. But this is off topic, and frankly after that post I'm really not interested in talking with you about it.
.

OT, but I have a couple of friends who lives in Germany, and they can confirm that no-one likes Murkels plans and no-one wants the immigrants.

Back on topic, I really hoe that this new CO starts looking at what the fans want. There is hope yet, as GW does seem to be finally turning around and realising it was heading for oblivion. Fans want Sisters? So hopefully we will get them.

 master of ordinance wrote:
OT, but I have a couple of friends who lives in Germany, and they can confirm that no-one likes Murkels plans and no-one wants the immigrants.

Just so that our American friends do not get the wrong impression, thankfully people like the two above me are only a portion of the European population; if Merkel had been as impopular as they claim she'd have been voted out of office. I live in Sweden - often horribly termed the 'rape capital of Europe' and a popular subject of related derisive memes - but it really is not as bad here as people wish it were.

 master of ordinance wrote:


Back on topic, I really hoe that this new CO starts looking at what the fans want. There is hope yet, as GW does seem to be finally turning around and realising it was heading for oblivion. Fans want Sisters? So hopefully we will get them.

Well, fans want just about everything. We don't really know how many want SoB, right? Especially since those who do want them are often disproportionately vocal.

I am not claiming the interest to be one way or the other, just that it is difficult to measure the interest from a couple forum threads.

Can we stop with the racism and get back to talking about sisters.

 Cheesecat wrote:
Can we stop with the racism and get back to talking about sisters.

Yes please.

With Deathwatch being out it is definitely a prime time to bring Sisters and maybe even the Inq line of models into proper plastic. Honestly outside of Orks and Tau, Sisters of Battle is my favorite army concept and would of been my 3rd army if they had plastic kits for them. Hopefully we will see plastic sisters in the near future and if so they will definitely be added to my roster of subfactions in my "Fiery Heart of the Emperor" Inq force.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:


Back on topic, I really hoe that this new CO starts looking at what the fans want. There is hope yet, as GW does seem to be finally turning around and realising it was heading for oblivion. Fans want Sisters? So hopefully we will get them.

Well, fans want just about everything. We don't really know how many want SoB, right? Especially since those who do want them are often disproportionately vocal.

I am not claiming the interest to be one way or the other, just that it is difficult to measure the interest from a couple forum threads.

If you want to read my reply to people's insinuation about my person its above if not I suggest you leave it.

I still think this ceo is basically Kirby puppet simply as he is still majority shareholder. A few good things he's done still doesn't make up for the mistake of AoS or rebooting every other codex a year or 2 down the line.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

I am so confused. This isn't the thread to discuss immigration policies and impacts, so...

...If Sisters of Silence sell well - and I'll definitely be getting some - then I hope it provides the impetus to get Sisters of Battle properly produced at last.

On a slight tangent, I always thought it was a massive shame that they never released their Codex: Alien Hunters project, though I suspect some of it saw the light of day in the release of the Jokaero model.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
I am so confused. This isn't the thread to discuss immigration policies and impacts, so...

...If Sisters of Silence sell well - and I'll definitely be getting some - then I hope it provides the impetus to get Sisters of Battle properly produced at last.

On a slight tangent, I always thought it was a massive shame that they never released their Codex: Alien Hunters project, though I suspect some of it saw the light of day in the release of the Jokaero model.

It honestly depends on how they look. I think. It's part of a big box and if they get a separate release like the rest of the HH stuff it could sell well I think.

Well we know what Sisters of Silence look like. Bald but for topknots, half-face helms, golden armour, fur cloaks, leather boots over their leg carapace, boltguns, flamers and the like in evidence - the uniform is quite different to the Sisters of Battle - but they're a really cool faction and given that the precedent for the HH box set is to eventually be released as seperate units, I can see them selling reasonably well.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
Well we know what Sisters of Silence look like. Bald but for topknots, half-face helms, golden armour, fur cloaks, leather boots over their leg carapace, boltguns, flamers and the like in evidence - the uniform is quite different to the Sisters of Battle - but they're a really cool faction and given that the precedent for the HH box set is to eventually be released as seperate units, I can see them selling reasonably well.

If they keep that goofy ork like hair on the models .....I dunno I hope they are convertible to SoB easy enough.

Don't they wear something like power armour though?

I've heard the SoS may be just a single character though not a full squad.

No, well, it doesn't look like it. I mean it probably is, but it seems to be carapace armour.

I doubt they are easy to convert to Sisters of Battle though, as the armour is very different and lacks, for example, the Ecclesiarchy symbols and so on. Not impossible, just hard.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
No, well, it doesn't look like it. I mean it probably is, but it seems to be carapace armour.

I doubt they are easy to convert to Sisters of Battle though, as the armour is very different and lacks, for example, the Ecclesiarchy symbols and so on. Not impossible, just hard.

Gives me hope at least.

Hope is meaningless.

There is only faith in the God-Emperor!

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
No, well, it doesn't look like it. I mean it probably is, but it seems to be carapace armour.

I doubt they are easy to convert to Sisters of Battle though, as the armour is very different and lacks, for example, the Ecclesiarchy symbols and so on. Not impossible, just hard.

Very different indeed.

I mean ffs, just because they're female humans doesn't mean that Sisters of Silence have to be treated as Sisters of Battle expies. Nor should they be treated as a replacement. They aren't. They have very different lore, looks, and appeals. I mean I know people are used to marines, which are often so similar that a coat of paint will change what codex you use, but not every faction is marines...

Also, one is 30k (which sucks ass) and the other is 40k (which is awesome) so that is that

 master of ordinance wrote:
OT, but[...]

Spoilered for off-topic conversation.

Anyone else on here ever wonder why people, particular gamers, think chicks in military/authority roles are so neat?

I attribute the phenomenon toward either the simple novelty of it... or sexual repression, gender identity confusion, and/or matriarchal focused upbringing. Hear me out, just ask WHY guys/girls like the idea of say sisters of battle, and you may just find: political'ness, unrealized sexism, or overly egalitarian assertions (I'd wager).

The simplicity of nuns with guns is a funny image, but man, most of the models do not look like nuns. If anything, I see guys saying one thing in regards to wanting some new fun image, but then I look at their actual ideas, and it seems like its coming from some sort of artistic, primal self-denial?

I like cartoonish things. Exaggerations to me can be fun BUT sisters of battle being back on the table, or even streamlining female plastic soldiers, just make my eyes roll - when I imagine the diehard mentality of those who push them.

Why can't fluff be just left in the boys club and left at that? Go to another genre or play eldar if you really want boob plates, pony tails & stilletos. Or play Slaanesh. Or, just call your space marines/ guardsman girls and leave it at that (depending on how serious you are, that declaration may be quite enigmatic to others - as it should)

The funny thing is, about what I'm saying, in a thread dominated by SoB fans, is that I doubt I'm the fringe abroad. If at least, I suspect most people don't really care - until they for some fleeting reason, lose interest entirely (being jaded by x and y unknowingly). This movement away from the hobby is more due to an overall ideological creep; deviating from the fundamentals that made Warhammer novel to begin with...cartoonish bastardizations. Really, if you want ultra sexualized band of bikini girls, then hey an army of those are at least consistent with the obvious humor. SoB, like SM, may have absurd aesthetics, and overly serious fluff, but one does not sexualize itself for the sake of being different. That feels artificial and frankly... awkward. The facts that some guys must see boobs & curves - for whatever perverse or 'noble' reason - should make the average Joe pause.... because that mentality is weird. Sure, the occasional model or band of chicks is whatever, but the mentality to choose an army of boobies, or the need to 'add variety' by boobs and curves, is odd - the behavior, the reasoning involved.

The popular demand for a new cookie is inexorable; its legacy perpetually consuming itself. Thus, popularity alone cannot always be a trusted indicator toward real greatness.

I played the City of Heroes MMO for years, where I met this woman gamer who played nothing but male characters. I asked her about it one day and she simply told me "If I'm going to stare at this character's butt all day, it might as well be a nice butt that I wouldn't mind staring at all day"

Personally, I find the draw of Apepta Sororitas is that they are one of the less common armies, and don't feel as cookie cutter when playing them.

 kveldulf wrote:
I attribute the phenomenon toward either the simple novelty of it...

I like the variety, and I think the SoB models were well-sculpted. Aside from the haircuts, the models hold up very well today.

I don't think my enjoyment needs to express some sort of matriarchal / feminist / anti-sexist / political viewpoint or commentary on my part vis-a-vis the "boy's club" of gaming.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 kveldulf wrote:
I attribute the phenomenon toward either the simple novelty of it...

I like the variety, and I think the SoB models were well-sculpted. Aside from the haircuts, the models hold up very well today.

I don't think my enjoyment needs to express some sort of matriarchal / feminist / anti-sexist / political viewpoint or commentary on my part vis-a-vis the "boy's club" of gaming.

I agree. I like to keep it simple but at the same time, people can be traditional or just weird on why they supposedly like things, and that, can create a 'cascade of dumb' within the community.. When asked the 'why' people reach for answers - which is ok to an extent, but when things are an apparent enigma, carried further by their reasoning, then I pause.

If sisters did come out, I think a better rendition would be to take actual nun garb and run with that. Furthermore, making them bulkier and uglier would be amusing - kind of like a helga complex.

I personally think the SoB were crap (though the quality may have been finely done). Just don't care for the artistic direction.

I'm curious, you think that because Sisters were my first real army that I have some kind of prepubescent complex about women? Or that secretly I wish to be one?
Regardless if I do or do not and find the fact an army can't be cool regardless if it is male or female puzzling.
The reason for my choice was actually the old metal Immolator, the thought of a super flame tank only used by a group of battle hardened heretic burning Nuns was kinda interesting. I hadn't seen anything like this before. It was like Female Redemptionists in a way.

Telling sisters plays to go play Slaanesh or Dark Eldar to get their quota of "Boobs" (that word.... ugh!) is rather dismissive. Go play Tempestus to get your quota of burly men instead of Catchans is just as dismissive.

Or how about removing Chaos Space Marines. Telling those players to just buy regular marines and add spikes as its just the same.

If you do not like them fine but insinuating that every male Sisters player is a boy who has problems is very odd. Can't something just be fun? Things have become far too serious in the hobby scene. Where everything has to be dissected for its Political and Social issues, we get enough misery on the news. I paint for fun and relaxation, not to be yelled at I'm a monster for liking x or y.

Thanks

S.Y.

This thread gets stranger and stranger the longer it goes on.

My sexuality and sexual preferences have nothing to do with my desire to play Sisters of Battle, or why I have an army of them, or why I want to see them updated and re-released in plastic.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
This thread gets stranger and stranger the longer it goes on.

It really does, doesn't it? This is the internet I guess

I just like badass females in the media I consume, which the Sisters are. Simple as that really. I don't read into it anymore than that, since I don't play the game and enjoy the hobby for annoying politics to seep into it.

 kveldulf wrote:
Anyone else on here ever wonder why people, particular gamers, think chicks in military/authority roles are so neat?

Unstated assumption that people might only like Sisters of Battle because they are “chicks in military/authority role”.

 kveldulf wrote:
I attribute the phenomenon toward either the simple novelty of it...

Weird idea that women in authority roles are a novelty.

 kveldulf wrote:
or sexual repression, gender identity confusion, and/or matriarchal focused upbringing.

Unstated assumption that “chicks in military/authority role” are something unnatural that needs a cause to happen.

 kveldulf wrote:
political'ness, unrealized sexism, or overly egalitarian assertions (I'd wager).

The very simple idea of “overly egalitarian” makes no sense here.

 kveldulf wrote:
but then I look at their actual ideas, and it seems like its coming from some sort of artistic, primal self-denial?

What on earth is being denied to anyone here?

 kveldulf wrote:
Why can't fluff be just left in the boys club and left at that?

Implying there should be a reason to “not leave the fluff in the boys club”. Rather, the question should be if there is a reason to “leave the fluff in the boys club”.

 kveldulf wrote:
Go to another genre or play eldar if you really want boob plates, pony tails & stilletos.

It is an extremely weird assumption that Sisters players want “boob plates, pony tails & stilletos” when Sisters have neither pony tails, nor stilettos. It is then a very weird advice to tell them to play Eldars to get those while eldars also have neither pony tails nor stilettos.

 kveldulf wrote:
The funny thing is, about what I'm saying, in a thread dominated by SoB fans, is that I doubt I'm the fringe abroad.

Given the weirdness of the ideas expressed above, I can't imagine them NOT being fringe.

 kveldulf wrote:
Really, if you want ultra sexualized band of bikini girls, then hey an army of those are at least consistent with the obvious humor.

I fail to see how that's humor, given how many times it's been played 100% straight, and how it's not really, well, funny, in the first place.