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Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Hi there,
As some of you may know, my main opponent is running a tyranid army. However, now his army is beggining to be a big one ( 1500 pts at last), and he just bought his second flying hive tyrant.

It wasn't easy to handle 1, and now I'll have to face 2 in the same battle .

The thing is: I only have a stormraven as AA. Ok, it isn't bad at it, I usually kill his tyrant in one, maybe 2 turn if I'm unlucky, with it, but I have to wait, at least, until my turn 2 to use it.

One hive tyrant without AA during 2 turns was ok, but how to manage 2 hive tyrant with such a lack of AA ?

My stormraven was often crucial in battle against his army, killing is hive tyrant and then being almost invulnerable and chasing his synapses (I felt really bad once, because of that ), but things will be totally different now (his second tyrant will probably destroy my stormraven in his turn after I killed the first).

So, do I need to buy a stormtalon / hawk ? I don't think a devastator squad can handle this^^

I'm reluctant to just ignore his second tyrant, as it is a model truly powerful (but really expensive).

How do YOU do this ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/17 01:38:33


   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Shriek. It's been FAQed to auto-hit flying targets again, which makes a Librarian on a bike a pretty big no-fly-zone for a Flyrant if it doesn't want to take a grounding test every turn.

Failing that the only Imperial AA (off the top of my head) that isn't either a Flyer or stuck snapfiring at ground targets is the Contemptor-Mortis. It may be expensive but twelve S6 rending shots coming at the Tyrant from a platform it can't seriously injure (AV 13-12-10 camped in a reinforced ruin for a 3+ cover save) is going to make it think twice.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shriek. It's been FAQed to auto-hit flying targets again, which makes a Librarian on a bike a pretty big no-fly-zone for a Flyrant if it doesn't want to take a grounding test every turn.

Failing that the only Imperial AA (off the top of my head) that isn't either a Flyer or stuck snapfiring at ground targets is the Contemptor-Mortis. It may be expensive but twelve S6 rending shots coming at the Tyrant from a platform it can't seriously injure (AV 13-12-10 camped in a reinforced ruin for a 3+ cover save) is going to make it think twice.


Um. Where exactly has Shriek been FAQd to auto hit flying targets? As of the GW draft faq it does auto hit, but cant target an FMC. And OP, two flyrants is very manageable, but remember that your Stormraven doesnt have skyfire as of the new Death From The Skies supplement. I recommend using grav cannons and finding a way to twin link it. 2 Flyrants can be shot down very quickly with the right guns! Grav cannons have high ROF, easily TLed, and have good ap as well as wounding them on a rerollable 3+.


 
   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




Dealing two is also not hard, if you are going arms racing, get a Squad of Grav Centurions and go Ultramarine. For only 10 points more than a typical Flyrant, your Centurion will on average kill it in one round of shooting with Devastor Doctrine or the buff like Preciense, if it don't jink. If it jink, it is basically neutralize for a turn.

Your headache might come true when Nids is bringing 4 or more Flyrant, supported by Hive Crones and more than 1 Mawlocs. In this case, just give up the idea of killing them, go Gladius full Battle Company, spam Razorbacks and Droppods, outnumber the Nids , kill all the small bugs on ground quickly and win by sitting on objectives. If he have Mawlocs, those are your number 1 shooting priority instead of Flyrants.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Neophyte2012 wrote:
Dealing two is also not hard, if you are going arms racing, get a Squad of Grav Centurions and go Ultramarine. For only 10 points more than a typical Flyrant, your Centurion will on average kill it in one round of shooting with Devastor Doctrine or the buff like Preciense, if it don't jink. If it jink, it is basically neutralize for a turn.

Your headache might come true when Nids is bringing 4 or more Flyrant, supported by Hive Crones and more than 1 Mawlocs. In this case, just give up the idea of killing them, go Gladius full Battle Company, spam Razorbacks and Droppods, outnumber the Nids , kill all the small bugs on ground quickly and win by sitting on objectives. If he have Mawlocs, those are your number 1 shooting priority instead of Flyrants.


Only 4? Once you hit 1850 points my standard is 6


 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shriek. It's been FAQed to auto-hit flying targets again, which makes a Librarian on a bike a pretty big no-fly-zone for a Flyrant if it doesn't want to take a grounding test every turn.

This is wrong. Shriek was FAQed to not roll dice to hit, that does not let it ignore snap firing (which means you can't attempt to shriek a flying MC at all now)
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

A couple of Stalkers should do the job.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






 Imateria wrote:
A couple of Stalkers should do the job.


Honestly I wouldn't reccomend stalkers at all. For their points they're actually terrible at AA while being pidgeonholed into that role thanks to snap firing at everything else. They each get 4 shots at S7 that don't ignore 3+ armor... Whoopdedo. Stalkers average less than one wound a turn against a flyrant with no cover or FNP, and they'll usually have one of those. They lack weight of fire AND lack the ap needed to deal with flyrants.

Grav cannons or bust!


 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman



Tampa, Florida

As someone who traditionally runs two Flyrants I agree with the above poster that Grav Cannons will work wonders. Don't bother with flak missiles as they don't have the AP to force him to jink.

   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

The fact is I don't own neither grav cannons nor salkers / hunters.
I'm going to buy every grav cannon I can find on ebay then !

   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






The answer you dont wanna hear, dont play with them.

Honestly i dont play against anyone who is bringing a flaying anything to a game when their opponent has no flying or AA in their army. Its a super scummy move.

I would suggest that if an opponent is bringing something thats flying, ask him or her if its ok for you to make weapon x, have sky fire to balance it out.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

Personally, I ignore them. But, I play Necrons, so my opinion matters not.

In all honest, a Stormraven should be fine. Kill one, and then kill the other, pretty straight forward. What's the other flyrant going to do? Shoot it? Cool, it's glancing on 6s at best.

40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Indiana

Honestly, as a tyranids player myself, I believe that you are one storm Raven is enough for the two flying Hive tyrants. It will put up quite a fight, but I think you should be ok. If you really want to, go ahead and bring in a stormtalon as an extra assurance or escort for your storm Raven.

The first turn your bird comes on you should be able to easily down one of his Flyers, just focus all the missiles you have on it and at the very least he will jink, taking him out of the fight for a turn. On his turn you can elect to jink, evading the shots from the flyer who will be focusing solely on You. Back on your turn, drop off your load or stay flying and snapshoot your autocannons at him, followed by potms for a full BS multimelta. That should kill at least 1, and severely wound the second. Once you're down to 1, its easy to reposition for a kill or fly off for another run
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 CrownAxe wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shriek. It's been FAQed to auto-hit flying targets again, which makes a Librarian on a bike a pretty big no-fly-zone for a Flyrant if it doesn't want to take a grounding test every turn.

This is wrong. Shriek was FAQed to not roll dice to hit, that does not let it ignore snap firing (which means you can't attempt to shriek a flying MC at all now)


I can't find the reference for that. The rulebook says that witchfires can be used as snap shots. The FAQ errata says that shriek autohits, and makes no mention of snap shots.
The FAQ about MC/GMC says that swooping MCs can be hit by nova, but not by beams, but I didn't see anything about autohit witchfires.
The witchfire and the psychic phase FAQ make no mention of using witchfires against FMC.

So, did I miss something (very possible, since I already had to check 5 different sections of the rule…)?
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Yeah, I think I was overscared by the second hive tyrant, but as I said, my stomraven always manged to handle his flyrant, he should be able to handle two.
I'll see that very soon anyways !
Thanks !

   
Made in at
Stalwart Tribune





Austria

You could use a Fireraptor gunship....
Just saying.

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01001111 01110010 01100100 01101111 00100000 01010010 01100101 01100100 01110101 01100011 01110100 01101111 01110010 00100001  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The thing with Tyrant spam is that it takes away from the rest of their ground presence. This means that you sould have an easier time cleaning off their ground units, forcing them to land the tyrants to score objectives. Once they are grounded they are pretty easy to deal with. Unless it is normal objectives and they field 6+, then it shouldn't be hard to score an early lead and pull out the win. Maelstrom is your friend in this instance.
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Honestly i dont play against anyone who is bringing a flaying anything to a game when their opponent has no flying or AA in their army. Its a super scummy move.


You don't have many friends with Tyranids do you ?

It's super easy to make an awesome 40K army without dedicated AA.

It difficult to make a competitive Tryanid army without a Flyrant. You can do it, but your literally leaving your best codex choice behind.


It's like asking a White Scars player "I didn't bring any ignores cover, can you not play with any of your bikes ?"

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

Before you scour eBay for grav, check out the resin ones from Kromlech. I haven't assembled mine yet, but they look pretty good for the price.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Orlando

A mortis Contemptor with twin Kheres would work(I think you get those in 40k). Just don't move and then you can do AA and ground support in a dual role.

If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM! 
   
Made in eu
Shrieking Guardian Jetbiker





fresus wrote:
 CrownAxe wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shriek. It's been FAQed to auto-hit flying targets again, which makes a Librarian on a bike a pretty big no-fly-zone for a Flyrant if it doesn't want to take a grounding test every turn.

This is wrong. Shriek was FAQed to not roll dice to hit, that does not let it ignore snap firing (which means you can't attempt to shriek a flying MC at all now)


I can't find the reference for that. The rulebook says that witchfires can be used as snap shots. The FAQ errata says that shriek autohits, and makes no mention of snap shots.
The FAQ about MC/GMC says that swooping MCs can be hit by nova, but not by beams, but I didn't see anything about autohit witchfires.
The witchfire and the psychic phase FAQ make no mention of using witchfires against FMC.

So, did I miss something (very possible, since I already had to check 5 different sections of the rule…)?


I think in the flyer rules, things that auto hit can't affect flyers with the only exception being Nova's... going off by memory though...

 Hawky wrote:
Power Armour's greatest weakness is Newton, the deadliest snfbtch in space.



"You're in the Guard(ians), son! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Torus wrote:
fresus wrote:
 CrownAxe wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shriek. It's been FAQed to auto-hit flying targets again, which makes a Librarian on a bike a pretty big no-fly-zone for a Flyrant if it doesn't want to take a grounding test every turn.

This is wrong. Shriek was FAQed to not roll dice to hit, that does not let it ignore snap firing (which means you can't attempt to shriek a flying MC at all now)


I can't find the reference for that. The rulebook says that witchfires can be used as snap shots. The FAQ errata says that shriek autohits, and makes no mention of snap shots.
The FAQ about MC/GMC says that swooping MCs can be hit by nova, but not by beams, but I didn't see anything about autohit witchfires.
The witchfire and the psychic phase FAQ make no mention of using witchfires against FMC.

So, did I miss something (very possible, since I already had to check 5 different sections of the rule…)?


I think in the flyer rules, things that auto hit can't affect flyers with the only exception being Nova's... going off by memory though...

You're perfectly right, it's under the "hard to hit" section of flyers.
However, FMC are a different unit type. Their own "hard to hit" section is pretty similar to the flyer's one, but lacks that restriction on auto hit weapons.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Just ignore them and kill the ground bugs. Once you move to the Tyranid side of the board, the FMCs have to fly off or land and turn around.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

Martel732 wrote:
Just ignore them and kill the ground bugs. Once you move to the Tyranid side of the board, the FMCs have to fly off or land and turn around.

This is the correct strat. Just ignore them. They are too few to matter, can be easily avoided, and are ineffective versus your entire army. So don't waste your army on them.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





If you really want to shoot them, find an objective that's granting Skyfire and take it.

If you really NEED to shoot them, just shoot them. 6's aren't uncommon to roll, in fact they happen 1/6 times on average. And sometimes they crash afterwards.

You don't need to kill them all at once, you have the whole game and they only have 3+ armor defending themselves. Before you say "jink", if they jink, you killed them for a turn, shoot at something else.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Atlanta

Silly question, but what about an Aegis Defense Line with a quad gun? Cheap for the $$$ and the points. Plant it on an objective you were going to babysit anyway and now you can take shots at all the flyrants you want.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Crazy Jay wrote:
Silly question, but what about an Aegis Defense Line with a quad gun? Cheap for the $$$ and the points. Plant it on an objective you were going to babysit anyway and now you can take shots at all the flyrants you want.
Quad guns are terribly ineffective AA I'm afraid. 4 shots is usually 3-4 hits, 2-3 wounds, maybe one failed save at best. And it's even worse against grounf targets, just not Killy for 100 points.


 
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Ok, so I did a new list, to take the fight to him. I'll try to kill the ground bugs first. When the game is done, I tell you what happened.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Atlanta

 jifel wrote:
Crazy Jay wrote:
Silly question, but what about an Aegis Defense Line with a quad gun? Cheap for the $$$ and the points. Plant it on an objective you were going to babysit anyway and now you can take shots at all the flyrants you want.
Quad guns are terribly ineffective AA I'm afraid. 4 shots is usually 3-4 hits, 2-3 wounds, maybe one failed save at best. And it's even worse against grounf targets, just not Killy for 100 points.


Then use the Icarus Lascannon. It's 15 points cheaper, it its TL so unless you put a BS 2 gunner on it, you'll probably hit. After that S9AP2 is nothing to sneeze at and worse case your probably forcing a Jink which is the next best thing to actually destroying the flyer. While yes it's not the the best AA, it's a cost effective option that can be added to any army.
   
Made in sg
Humorless Arbite





Hull

How I deal with anything flying (with my IG) -

Twin-linked Icarus Lascannon (on my FOR)
2x Twin-linked Autocannon Sabre Defence Batteries
3x Twin-linked Lascannon Tarantula Sentry Guns (the twin-linking helps when you're fishing for 6's)

I find that's enough but tbf I've only fought the odd Stormraven / Valkyries, I've not fought an air spam list.

   
 
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