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It says something when the initials for the only all women army is sob.

lliu wrote:
It says something when the initials for the only all women army is sob.

Er... no. Not really.

Gen.Steiner wrote:
This is the e-mail I sent:

Dear Sir/Madam,

My name is REDACTED. I have been a Games Workshop fan for over 20 years, and throughout that time have been an avid Imperial Guard player. For some time now I have been wondering why no attempt ever appears to have been made to produce a conversion kit for Cadian or Catachan plastics to allow players to field female Imperial Guard troopers? With the honourable exceptions of the metal Catachan Grenade Launcher, Rocket Girl, Warrior Woman, a Tanith trooper, a rather cheese-cakey Commissar from the early 1990s and a Rogue Trader Imperial Army trooper or two, the Imperial Army, now Imperial Guard, has been dominated by male figures.

This is fine as far as it goes, but I and many others would appreciate the ability to field Guard armies with both male and female troopers in, both in reflection of the official background (see the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts series, not to mention units like the Dneipr Regiments in the 3rd Edition Guard Codex), and in reflection of a historical and current reality that has seen many women serve with distinction in military forces from the Scythians through the Dahomey to the Red Army and on into the modern British Armed Forces (among others).

I have in the past asked Forgeworld this question, but never received an answer of any sort. It seems to me that a 'test set' of, say, ten female heads and torsos, along the lines of the Cadian Veterans with Shotguns or Cadians in Respirators, would be of interest to a great many Imperial Guard - and Chaos Renegade - players.

I look forwards to your response.

Yours faithfully,

REDACTED

I will let you all know if and when I get a reply...!

You phrased that request better than I could ever dreamed of doing myself.


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Gen.Steiner wrote:

lliu wrote:
It says something when the initials for the only all women army is sob.

Er... no. Not really.

I agree. An SoB is something you call a man, and the first word excludes applying it to anyone who is female.

 Pouncey wrote:
You phrased that request better than I could ever dreamed of doing myself.

Aw shucks!

 Verviedi wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Agreed. I am likely allowing my personal favoritism towards Tau to interfere with other's preferences. Eldar can be excused (possibly!) because likely the Old Ones got lazy and made humans and Eldar share some features. That's pretty much the only reason I can think of for them having enlarged breasts like humans.

The thing is that the Old Ones had nothing to do with Humanity. They were long gone by the time Man's earliest ancestors came about. The same with that bit of throwaway fluff back in the day regarding Necrons and the "Pariah Gene".


Humans in 40k evolved on Earth naturally. They weren't "created" by anybody.

Wait, really? That's interesting. I wonder why Eldar resemble humans so much, then. I was always under the impression that the Old Ones seeded Earth with material to eventually create humans, but died out before they could finish the job.

There is a brief mention to that effect in the Necrons codex, if I remember correctly. Xenology also relates a legend where one of the Old Ones survived, continued to tweak and observe, then retreated into the Warp to watch it's handiwork. Supposedly, it was shattered in the same manner as the C'Tan by Slaanesh after his/her/it's birth. This was also how the Umbra came about, and the source of the Hrud god Qah. Of course, anything in Xenology has to be taken with a grain of salt.


However, considering that the One Ones died out, and the Necrons went into stasis, roughly around the time frame of the K-T extinction event on Earth (the extinction of the dinosaurs, the only mammals were rodent-like creatures), it would be highly unlikely (unless one of the Old Ones really did survive long after the War in Heaven ended, as mentioned in Xenology). The same goes with the mention in the Necron codex (considering how mangled Necron fluff has been, some info can be chalked up to misinformation. Especially, the retconned stuff. So, once again, grain of salt).

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Agreed. I am likely allowing my personal favoritism towards Tau to interfere with other's preferences. Eldar can be excused (possibly!) because likely the Old Ones got lazy and made humans and Eldar share some features. That's pretty much the only reason I can think of for them having enlarged breasts like humans.

The thing is that the Old Ones had nothing to do with Humanity. They were long gone by the time Man's earliest ancestors came about. The same with that bit of throwaway fluff back in the day regarding Necrons and the "Pariah Gene".


Humans in 40k evolved on Earth naturally. They weren't "created" by anybody.

Wait, really? That's interesting. I wonder why Eldar resemble humans so much, then. I was always under the impression that the Old Ones seeded Earth with material to eventually create humans, but died out before they could finish the job.

There is a brief mention to that effect in the Necrons codex, if I remember correctly. Xenology also relates a legend where one of the Old Ones survived, continued to tweak and observe, then retreated into the Warp to watch it's handiwork. Supposedly, it was shattered in the same manner as the C'Tan by Slaanesh after his/her/it's birth. This was also how the Umbra came about, and the source of the Hrud god Qah. Of course, anything in Xenology has to be taken with a grain of salt.


However, considering that the One Ones died out, and the Necrons went into stasis, roughly around the time frame of the K-T extinction event on Earth (the extinction of the dinosaurs, the only mammals were rodent-like creatures), it would be highly unlikely (unless one of the Old Ones really did survive long after the War in Heaven ended, as mentioned in Xenology). The same goes with the mention in the Necron codex (considering how mangled Necron fluff has been, some info can be chalked up to misinformation. Especially, the retconned stuff. So, once again, grain of salt).

If you're going backwards through the thread to end up on the page you found that post on... Please, do yourself a favor and don't go any further backward.

A question though... How do you retcon something in a game whose lore involves the concept of canon being fairly irrelevant altogether? Retconning something involves changing the canon.

Oh, plenty of things have been retconned in 40K. Rainbow Warriors, Space Sharks, the Half-Eldar Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines Chapter, the existence of Chapters as opposed to Legions, the Old Ones, the Necrons, the list goes on and on!

After all, whilst in general the background is deliberately opaque and confused, certain things are explicitly stated to be Objective Fact, and of late more and more things are being spelled out rather than being "It says this here, and that there, and this third source contradicts them both, and then there's this one that says this instead that agrees with the second but not the first for this bit, and..." which is, in my opinion, rather rubbish. Your mileage, as they say, may vary.

Why wait for Forgeworld when Victoria already makes awesome female Cadians, not to mention several other regiments?

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Why wait for Forgeworld when Victoria already makes awesome female Cadians, not to mention several other regiments?

Victoria Miniatures' stuff is excellent, but it's scaled for the 2nd Edition figures. Which is absolutely fine, and fits in perfectly with my collection, but they do suffer from a) not being as widely known as Games Workshop, b) not being available in GWs, c) not allowed to be used in GW shops, d) not fitting with the current Cadian and Catachan plastics.

Lots of people will prefer to have GW official figures because they're official GW or FW figures, too.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:

lliu wrote:
It says something when the initials for the only all women army is sob.

Er... no. Not really.

I don't know what you mean. I meant a sob, as in literally, the noise you make when you cry.

Steiner likely thought of “son of a female dog”.

Or bitch, which is a perfectly legitimate term?!

lliu wrote:
I don't know what you mean. I meant a sob, as in literally, the noise you make when you cry.

But that's not an acronym, it's a word; the initials are S.O.B, or SoB, not sob. Which is why, yes, I thought you meant "sons of bitches". Sorry!

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
But that's not an acronym, it's a word

And more precisely, that's an onomatopoeia. Also what I am being is called pedantic .


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 Azreal13 wrote:
Or bitch, which is a perfectly legitimate term?!

See that flag next to my username? It means that I can say any swear word I want, even if they are not legitimate. I use need to add “Pardon my French” afterward .

 Vaktathi wrote:
Personally I'd like to see Chaos varied a bit more. It's been so heavily codified into the 4 gods only, and apparently all working together most of the time now, that Chaos really feels quite bland. Where are the innumerable smaller Warp entities? Where are all the big scary warp monsters that eat spaceships? We have some non-dedicated units like Furies, but they're crappy afterthoughts. Get some more animosity in there between the rival gods and get some more unaligned units in.

Likewise, it'd be interesting to see more of the smaller Xenos races like the Hrud or Enslavers.

For my money, the best portrayals of Chaos are the ones that move away from the usual Four God Nutters and have an actual society, like the Sanguinary Worlds or whatever they're called in the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. Not because it makes them sympathetic, they don't and shouldn't, but because it helps to reinforce the lunacy of the Imperium to look at such a society and struggle to find differences between the two beyond semantics and petty ritual details - does it matter to Hive Shlub 187219 - Blogs, Joey whether he's being hunted through the halls of his manufactorum for sport by Chaos-worshipping crazies or bored psychopathic Imperial nobles? Does it matter whether his wife or child was slowly murdered by a Death Cultist dedicated to Khorne as opposed to one dedicated to the Emperor? If his life any more or less of a grinding misery if he rivets armour plates to tanks destined for an Imperial Guard regiment rather than a Blood Pact Death Brigade? GW have been letting the Imperium get altogether too heroic and fluffy in recent years, and a more interesting protrayal of Chaos, as well as just being good because variety is always nice to have, would help reverse that by inviting players to make the contrast and notice the horror of the Imperium themselves.

GW could kill two birds with one stone in that regard and give us an empire where the human fodder are ruled by a caste of Chaos-worshipping non-humanoid Xenos rather than corrupt Emperor-fearing nobility.

Female Space Marines don't need to be a thing, as has been mentioned they would be redundant if GW actually supported SoB.

As for the rest, there does need to be more diversity in 40K, and you don't need to be part of the "PC Brigade" or "SJWs" or whatever to want that, it's simply a matter of wanting the models to be as rich and varied as the background implies they should be. Making, say, 1/3 of any future IG infantry box female, if nothing else, makes it easier to produce multiple squads from the same kit without having them all look exactly the same, since it's another variable when you're building the models. The same is true for race and culture(it's actually a bit sad that one single recognisably non-Caucasian face in the new DW kit stands out so much) - why wouldn't you want IG models based on the Ottoman Empire, or an Inquisitor with aesthetic cues from West African mythology, or a Space Marine chapter with a Confucian chapter cult and explicitly Asian features & iconography? If 40K is expansive enough to handle everything from Space torture-Elves to joke armies based on the film Zulu, I'm pretty sure it can survive the addition of some tropes and themes from places other than Northern Europe.

So yeah, sure, diversity is good because people like to see themselves reflected in the stories and art they consume, so including more "unremarkable" female and recognisably non-white European male models will make the hobby more attractive to women and non-white European males, but grumbling about it seems silly considering we're not even talking about it just not costing you anything; having more variety is an unqualified positive for everybody whether it's because they feel more accepted in their chosen hobby, because it aligns with your ethics, or just because it gives you more cool and interesting models to build and paint and create stories with. Literally nobody loses, so there's no reason not to support the idea.

I don't mind, but that's probably because there are enough Asian people in the world to not give a F*ck. Yes, I know we have a lot of people spread across the world, and yes, I admit that some people (Asians) overbred.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how many of you suddenly read that, then looked at my name tag differently forevermore?

 Yodhrin wrote:
Female Space Marines don't need to be a thing, as has been mentioned they would be redundant if GW actually supported SoB.

No. Just like a chapter of space marines with green skin would not suddenly make Orks irrelevant.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Female Space Marines don't need to be a thing, as has been mentioned they would be redundant if GW actually supported SoB.

No. Just like a chapter of space marines with green skin would not suddenly make Orks irrelevant.

Orks and Space Marines are not complimentary variations on the same concept. SM and SoB are both super-duper future space soldiers in power armour, the difference being one gets their super-duperness from genetic engineering and the other gets it from religious fervor and training. They serve as adequate thematic balances for the other, and the fact they are monosexed organisations would not be nearly so remarkable if the rest of the 40K model range wasn't so poorly served in terms of female models.

No, there's no actual scientific reason I can think of(although admittedly my thing is physics not biology) that the SM process, handwavium aside, wouldn't work on women, and the fluff probably is the way it is because it's a product of a bunch of blokes in the 80's, but it is the way it is and being an all-male faction has become an instrinsic part of 40K's conception of Space Marines. We don't have to impose modern left-liberal conceptions of gender equality on every single specific aspect of 40K - particularly given that it's supposed to represent a hyper-dystopia - in order to make the range as a whole more diverse, interesting, and inclusive.

And fundamentally, the "reasoning" behind the SoB being monosex is just as flimsy as that behind SM being so(really? they just implemented strict new laws to prevent your organisation repeating your galaxy-wide civil war & megaslaughter, but decide to ignore you flagrantly violating them based on a paper-thin semantic argument? my eyebrow is so arched at that idea that it's travelled right over the top of my head and now sits between my shoulderblades), and stripped of context an all-female organisation with a flimsy excuse is just as sexist as an all-male group with same, so should we be advocating to change the Sisters to "Siblings of Battle" with a 50/50 female/male split in the models?

EDIT: And I'll note I said "redundant", not "irrelevant". Words have meanings.

Lol this guys shoulder blades are higher than his head. He's like the real life version of an Ork.

lliu wrote:I don't mind, but that's probably because there are enough Asian people in the world to not give a F*ck. Yes, I know we have a lot of people spread across the world, and yes, I admit that some people (Asians) overbred.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how many of you suddenly read that, then looked at my name tag differently forevermore?

lliu wrote:Lol this guys shoulder blades are higher than his head. He's like the real life version of an Ork.

What are you on about?

 Gen.Steiner wrote:
Oh, plenty of things have been retconned in 40K. Rainbow Warriors, Space Sharks, the Half-Eldar Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines Chapter, the existence of Chapters as opposed to Legions, the Old Ones, the Necrons, the list goes on and on!

After all, whilst in general the background is deliberately opaque and confused, certain things are explicitly stated to be Objective Fact, and of late more and more things are being spelled out rather than being "It says this here, and that there, and this third source contradicts them both, and then there's this one that says this instead that agrees with the second but not the first for this bit, and..." which is, in my opinion, rather rubbish. Your mileage, as they say, may vary.

So GW's opinion on what is and is not canon is no longer to simply let each player decide for themself?


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 Yodhrin wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Female Space Marines don't need to be a thing, as has been mentioned they would be redundant if GW actually supported SoB.

No. Just like a chapter of space marines with green skin would not suddenly make Orks irrelevant.

Orks and Space Marines are not complimentary variations on the same concept. SM and SoB are both super-duper future space soldiers in power armour, the difference being one gets their super-duperness from genetic engineering and the other gets it from religious fervor and training. They serve as adequate thematic balances for the other, and the fact they are monosexed organisations would not be nearly so remarkable if the rest of the 40K model range wasn't so poorly served in terms of female models.

No, there's no actual scientific reason I can think of(although admittedly my thing is physics not biology) that the SM process, handwavium aside, wouldn't work on women, and the fluff probably is the way it is because it's a product of a bunch of blokes in the 80's, but it is the way it is and being an all-male faction has become an instrinsic part of 40K's conception of Space Marines. We don't have to impose modern left-liberal conceptions of gender equality on every single specific aspect of 40K - particularly given that it's supposed to represent a hyper-dystopia - in order to make the range as a whole more diverse, interesting, and inclusive.

And fundamentally, the "reasoning" behind the SoB being monosex is just as flimsy as that behind SM being so(really? they just implemented strict new laws to prevent your organisation repeating your galaxy-wide civil war & megaslaughter, but decide to ignore you flagrantly violating them based on a paper-thin semantic argument? my eyebrow is so arched at that idea that it's travelled right over the top of my head and now sits between my shoulderblades), and stripped of context an all-female organisation with a flimsy excuse is just as sexist as an all-male group with same, so should we be advocating to change the Sisters to "Siblings of Battle" with a 50/50 female/male split in the models?

EDIT: And I'll note I said "redundant", not "irrelevant". Words have meanings.

It wouldn't be the only piece of official 40k lore which is incredibly ridiculous.

Recent examples I read include:

-Less than 100,000 IG soldiers being able to conquer a planet, when WW2 armies were much, MUCH larger than that and failed to accomplish similar feats.
-Frigates are larger than Titans, yet can be made easily in any low-tech shipyard, so why bother with super-special Titans at all when you can just make more-powerful Frigates much more easily?
-Plasma weaponry is so rare it borders on being a completely forgotten technology, but they'll hand them out in small numbers to any Imperial Guard specialist.

Also I don't think anyone's really been calling Space Marines being male-only to be sexist. They may have been saying that the male-only army getting so much more attention and love than the female-only army is sexist, but that's a different thing being called sexist.

Oh, and regarding why I didn't respond to your first comment, about how Sisters of Battle and Space Marines are the same thing.

Me convincing you on that subject would require that you be prepared to admit that the most fundamental difference between the factions in terms of lore is actually a difference, and not simplify them both down to "powerful human in heavy armor with a big gun."

 Yodhrin wrote:
Orks and Space Marines are not complimentary variations on the same concept.

Come on. Both are artificially engineered races of super space warriors. One happens to be green and the other pink.

 Yodhrin wrote:
We don't have to impose modern left-liberal conceptions of gender equality on every single specific aspect of 40K

We don't have to do anything about 40k. We can make everything, anything or nothing at all about it, since it's entirely fictional. Doesn't mean that we don't want to. I would fine female SM alright.

 Yodhrin wrote:
And fundamentally, the "reasoning" behind the SoB being monosex is just as flimsy as that behind SM being so

And your point here is? Are you assuming based on nothing that I really care about Sisters being an all-female organization? Frankly I should point out to you that every Sisters of Battle codex has included rules for male miniatures, and that many had more male SC than female SC, so… it's kind of already the case. SM of any color certainly can't say the same.

 Yodhrin wrote:
they just implemented strict new laws to prevent your organisation repeating your galaxy-wide civil war & megaslaughter, but decide to ignore you flagrantly violating them based on a paper-thin semantic argument?

It was more like “saving face while allowing the unwilling guy that you really really need to stay in office when he really really doesn't want to to have his ways on a few details”, if you read Codex: Sisters of Battle (2nd edition), but whatever.

Come on, everyone, we all know the real reason why there are no female space marines.

Seriously though, as someone who struggles to see herself represented in any media, I fail to see why someone else's mild preference / discomfort takes priority. It reflects very poorly on Games Workshop and the entire 40k fandom that "only men" is still a thing, and that anyone defends it for any reason. This communicates something loud and clear, and if you realized what it was you may not like what it says about you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also just going to point out that apparently this rigorous Space Marine making process kills anyone who's transgender, because otherwise I guarantee you'll have female Space Marines one way or another.

Seriously, at some point you need to ask yourself why this is a hill you want to die on, and what that says to the people around you. Someone important to you could come out of the closet or express personal concern about something you've made jokes about, minimized the importance of, or belittled the people who care about it, and you're going to feel like a fething heel.

I know I did.

Perhas the real reason that there are no female space marines is because 40k is the medieval era IN SPAAACE. The Imperium is roman catholicism IN SPAAACE, Marines are Monks/Crusaders IN SPAAACE, SoB are Nuns IN SPAAACE and everything got dialled up to 11, stats were set to over 9000, everything is Gothic and GrimDank and there is only war.

That is why there are no female marines. It's just not thematic gor the IOM to be unbiased towatds gender.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Orks and Space Marines are not complimentary variations on the same concept.

Come on. Both are artificially engineered races of super space warriors. One happens to be green and the other pink.

Bollocks, by that standard Mechanicus and Necrons are basically the same because they're both really hype about machines. I should really stop here since this remark makes it obvious you're not actually interested in a discussion, but what the hell I have five minutes to kill.

 Yodhrin wrote:
We don't have to impose modern left-liberal conceptions of gender equality on every single specific aspect of 40K

We don't have to do anything about 40k. We can make everything, anything or nothing at all about it, since it's entirely fictional. Doesn't mean that we don't want to. I would fine female SM alright.

And I've had enough of big lore changes in IP's I enjoy, thanks. A story being fictional doesn't mean you can just change long-established parts of it around without undermining the integrity of the IP - look at what Lucas did to his own creation because he couldn't leave well enough alone. Retconning in female Space Marines isn't any more necessary or interesting than making Greedo shoot first.

 Yodhrin wrote:
And fundamentally, the "reasoning" behind the SoB being monosex is just as flimsy as that behind SM being so

And your point here is? Are you assuming based on nothing that I really care about Sisters being an all-female organization? Frankly I should point out to you that every Sisters of Battle codex has included rules for male miniatures, and that many had more male SC than female SC, so… it's kind of already the case. SM of any color certainly can't say the same.

You'll have to cite the codex for SoB that include male SoB, because it's not one I recall.

 Yodhrin wrote:
they just implemented strict new laws to prevent your organisation repeating your galaxy-wide civil war & megaslaughter, but decide to ignore you flagrantly violating them based on a paper-thin semantic argument?

It was more like “saving face while allowing the unwilling guy that you really really need to stay in office when he really really doesn't want to to have his ways on a few details”, if you read Codex: Sisters of Battle (2nd edition), but whatever.

Please, like that's anything less of a post hoc rationalisation for "we want to make female space nuns" than "the Emperor's baby juice only works on men" was for SM being men.

 Jewelfox wrote:
Come on, everyone, we all know the real reason why there are no female space marines.

Seriously though, as someone who struggles to see herself represented in any media, I fail to see why someone else's mild preference / discomfort takes priority. It reflects very poorly on Games Workshop and the entire 40k fandom that "only men" is still a thing, and that anyone defends it for any reason. This communicates something loud and clear, and if you realized what it was you may not like what it says about you.

I disagree, and frankly I think this kind of argument by innuendo is pretty low stuff. If you want to make the claim that anyone who would prefer this one aspect of the background of a fictional world remains the same is a closet misogynist, have the guts to state it plainly and explicitly.

Out of interest - do you believe works of literature should be censored or rewritten to remove any product-of-its-time language and sentiments that relate to gender, race, sexuality etc? Not to say 40K is literature, but I'm interested to find out if you're only in favour of rewriting 40K background because it doesn't meet some arbitrary personal threshold of importance, or if altering established elements of existing works of fiction based on modern left-liberal ethics is a point of principle.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also just going to point out that apparently this rigorous Space Marine making process kills anyone who's transgender, because otherwise I guarantee you'll have female Space Marines one way or another.

Seriously, at some point you need to ask yourself why this is a hill you want to die on, and what that says to the people around you. Someone important to you could come out of the closet or express personal concern about something you've made jokes about, minimized the importance of, or belittled the people who care about it, and you're going to feel like a fething heel.

I know I did.

And where is this coming from? Are you seriously trying to equate "I prefer Space Marines remain as they are" with someone making homophobic or sexist jokes?

 Jewelfox wrote:
Come on, everyone, we all know the real reason why there are no female space marines.

Seriously though, as someone who struggles to see herself represented in any media, I fail to see why someone else's mild preference / discomfort takes priority. It reflects very poorly on Games Workshop and the entire 40k fandom that "only men" is still a thing, and that anyone defends it for any reason. This communicates something loud and clear, and if you realized what it was you may not like what it says about you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also just going to point out that apparently this rigorous Space Marine making process kills anyone who's transgender, because otherwise I guarantee you'll have female Space Marines one way or another.

Seriously, at some point you need to ask yourself why this is a hill you want to die on, and what that says to the people around you. Someone important to you could come out of the closet or express personal concern about something you've made jokes about, minimized the importance of, or belittled the people who care about it, and you're going to feel like a fething heel.

I know I did.

I'll die on that hill of no female space marines; I'll even have a cool pillow fort with a sign hanging on it that says "NO GIRLS, NO XENOS".

There is plenty of literature that has one sex doing something the other can't, would you ask an author of a coherent narrative to change the concept of perhaps only powerful female magic users existing? Or a elite warrior sect that only males can become part of?

Because if so congratulations you don't like The Witcher! Where the Trial of the Grass kills all females!

Yodhrin wrote:So yeah, sure, diversity is good because people like to see themselves reflected in the stories and art they consume, so including more "unremarkable" female and recognisably non-white European male models will make the hobby more attractive to women and non-white European males, but grumbling about it seems silly considering we're not even talking about it just not costing you anything; having more variety is an unqualified positive for everybody whether it's because they feel more accepted in their chosen hobby, because it aligns with your ethics, or just because it gives you more cool and interesting models to build and paint and create stories with. Literally nobody loses, so there's no reason not to support the idea.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!

Nobody loses!

Keep Space Marines male, Sisters of Battle female, and everyone else gets a mix of genders - and EVERY human faction should have a wider variance of facial features.

 Gen.Steiner wrote:

Yodhrin wrote:So yeah, sure, diversity is good because people like to see themselves reflected in the stories and art they consume, so including more "unremarkable" female and recognisably non-white European male models will make the hobby more attractive to women and non-white European males, but grumbling about it seems silly considering we're not even talking about it just not costing you anything; having more variety is an unqualified positive for everybody whether it's because they feel more accepted in their chosen hobby, because it aligns with your ethics, or just because it gives you more cool and interesting models to build and paint and create stories with. Literally nobody loses, so there's no reason not to support the idea.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!

Nobody loses!

Keep Space Marines male, Sisters of Battle female, and everyone else gets a mix of genders - and EVERY human faction should have a wider variance of facial features.

Except Orkz.

There is no gender, and only one ethnicity. Green. Coz green iz best. Non green iz loozaz.

EDIT: Reading fail on my part. Missed the "human" bit.

 Selym wrote:

 Gen.Steiner wrote:

Yodhrin wrote:So yeah, sure, diversity is good because people like to see themselves reflected in the stories and art they consume, so including more "unremarkable" female and recognisably non-white European male models will make the hobby more attractive to women and non-white European males, but grumbling about it seems silly considering we're not even talking about it just not costing you anything; having more variety is an unqualified positive for everybody whether it's because they feel more accepted in their chosen hobby, because it aligns with your ethics, or just because it gives you more cool and interesting models to build and paint and create stories with. Literally nobody loses, so there's no reason not to support the idea.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!

Nobody loses!

Keep Space Marines male, Sisters of Battle female, and everyone else gets a mix of genders - and EVERY human faction should have a wider variance of facial features.

Except Orkz.

There is no gender, and only one ethnicity. Green. Coz green iz best. Non green iz loozaz.

EDIT: Reading fail on my part. Missed the "human" bit.

Digganobz!!

Haha! Yeh, the only factions that need added genders are Eldar and Human ones.

Human factions need different facial features.

Then we can add the strange and wonderful aliens into Codex: Xenos Mercenaries or something.