GW News & Rumours [40K]: 30k Ahriman, 40k Kharn, Void Shield gen & CSM Black Crusade supplement

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**Cheex**

We can also see the bottom half or more of the #5 power, can anyone confirm if it's the same as the SM equivalent?

**tneva82**

Roknar wrote:
Yea but that's not really any different to a normal termicide deep strike. At least not enough to make me go out of my way to buy 3 units plus a lord.

Ability to bypass interceptor, pepper guys inside and/or run before AP2 templates fall is different though.

Albeit not megahot but at least don't start dismissing formation because bolters arent' going to bust many vehicles

Presumably nobody tries that except in super rare situations.

**GoonBandito**

Have Traitor's Hate in hand, ask away.

Things I can confirm:
* No option for taking Kharn in Khorne Demonkin
* No points change for Lord of Skulls
* Renegade Knight rules are as-is from the previous rules in the Renegade Knight box, including the Forsworn Knight Detachment
* No Renegade Knight relics or additional formations
* Psychic Powers are, as far as I can see, exactly the same as the Angels of Death powers just renamed.

**Joyboozer**

GoonBandito wrote:
Have Traitor's Hate in hand, ask away.

Things I can confirm:
* No option for taking Kharn in Khorne Demonkin
* No points change for Lord of Skulls
* Renegade Knight rules are as-is from the previous rules in the Renegade Knight box, including the Forsworn Knight Detachment
* No Renegade Knight relics or additional formations
* Psychic Powers are, as far as I can see, exactly the same as the Angels of Death powers just renamed.

Is it the book that makes chaos fun and interesting again?

**casvalremdeikun**

GoonBandito wrote:
Have Traitor's Hate in hand, ask away.

Things I can confirm:
* No option for taking Kharn in Khorne Demonkin
* No points change for Lord of Skulls
* Renegade Knight rules are as-is from the previous rules in the Renegade Knight box, including the Forsworn Knight Detachment
* No Renegade Knight relics or additional formations
* Psychic Powers are, as far as I can see, exactly the same as the Angels of Death powers just renamed.

Did anything change between Kharn's datasheet between his CSM Codex datasheet and his datasheet in Traitor's Hate?

**GoonBandito**

Joyboozer wrote:
Is it the book that makes chaos fun and interesting again?

It features the exploits of everyone's favourite Chaos character - Lord Kranon!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Did anything change between Kharn's datasheet between his CSM Codex datasheet and his datasheet in Traitor's Hate?

Kharn always hitting on a 2+ is now a rule he has called Unstoppable, rather than being a special rule applied to Gorechild. That's the only difference I can see.

**Omega-soul**

Joyboozer wrote:
GoonBandito wrote:
Have Traitor's Hate in hand, ask away.

Some new relics / warlord trait's / tactical objectives ?

So there is no that psychic power? Atia was wrong?

**Warhams-77**

Thanks for answering questions, GoonBandito

So twice the same (shooting) weapon is still possible with Renegade Knights? They did not bring them back in line with Imperial Knights?

**Motograter**

What happened to the knight relics gw said were in the book?

On another note this black crusade series is supposedly 6 books. Has this been verified? Assuming it is 6 books, is that 3 chaos and 3 imperial?

**zamerion**

GoonBandito wrote:
Have Traitor's Hate in hand, ask away.

Things I can confirm:
* No option for taking Kharn in Khorne Demonkin
* No points change for Lord of Skulls
* Renegade Knight rules are as-is from the previous rules in the Renegade Knight box, including the Forsworn Knight Detachment
* No Renegade Knight relics or additional formations
* Psychic Powers are, as far as I can see, exactly the same as the Angels of Death powers just renamed.

Thanks for the info!!

Who can exactly use the new powers? ( sorcerers or any psychic from chaos faction or any psychic from chaos space marine codex?

Thanks!!!

**Warhams-77**

This is actually not from Atia but a Natfka source, that's why she posted a screenshot of the text which was re-posted on B&C.

**GoonBandito**

Omega-soul wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
GoonBandito wrote:
Have Traitor's Hate in hand, ask away.

Some new relics / warlord trait's / tactical objectives ?

So there is no that psychic power? Atia was wrong?

Spoiler:

No relics, and that AP3 Gets Hot Psychic Power doesn't exist

There are 6 new Tactical Objectives:
* 1VP for destroying an enemy unit during your turn
* 1VP for manifesting a psychic power
* roll a die when you draw the card, and if you control the objective matching the die you score 1VP
* 1VP for rolling on the Boon table. D3 VPs if you roll 3 times
* D3 VPs for controlling an objective that your opponent controlled at the start of your turn
* 1VP if your warlord got Unworthy Offering or Spawnhood. D3+3 if he got Apotheosis, or D3 if he got any other result.

**Gamgee**

Oh no you only got some of the most over powered psychic powers in existence. Some of which have been nerfed by the ITC and maybe one that was banned (I forget). Also on topic hastings has claimed to name the primarchs who are coming out. “Looks good, I’m looking forward to seeing Magnus, Angron, Mortarion, Russ & Guilliman now

”

I know there are people just waiting to complain. I see you. Look into my digital eye.

**GoonBandito**

zamerion wrote:
GoonBandito wrote:
Have Traitor's Hate in hand, ask away.

Things I can confirm:
* No option for taking Kharn in Khorne Demonkin
* No points change for Lord of Skulls
* Renegade Knight rules are as-is from the previous rules in the Renegade Knight box, including the Forsworn Knight Detachment
* No Renegade Knight relics or additional formations
* Psychic Powers are, as far as I can see, exactly the same as the Angels of Death powers just renamed.

Thanks for the info!!

Who can exactly use the new powers? ( sorcerers or any psychic from chaos faction or any psychic from chaos space marine codex?

Thanks!!!

Sorcerers: Any Psyker with the Chaos Space Marines Faction can generate the psychic powers from the Sinistrum, Heretech, Ectomancy and Geomortis disciplines, in addition to any other disciplines they have access to.

**Omega-soul**

Warhams-77 wrote:
This is actually not from Atia but a Natfka source, that's why she posted a screenshot of the text which was re-posted on B&C.

Oh well - I didn't seen Natfka one and post in her blog was only

"hello everyone !

Got this from atia, via dakka dakka

/cheers.
bob."

So maybe it's not her personal info but it sounded like it although i have nothing against just clarification.

**GoonBandito**

Motograter wrote:
What happened to the knight relics gw said were in the book?

GW never said that, people misread and/or assumed. What GW actually said was "full rules for fielding Renegade Knights in games of Warhammer 40,000, including Wargear of the Fallen Households." 'Wargear of the Fallen Households' is just a page listing the rules for the Avenger Gattling Cannon, Stormspear Missile Pod, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Ion Shield etc as is from Codex: Imperial Knights.

**Warhams-77**

No worries, Omega-soul. It could have been Natfka, Dakka, War of Sigmar. The info was wrong though, correct.

At least they kept the Renegade Knights rules the same it seems.

**Voodoo_Chile**

Any direct mention of using the Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter supplements with the detachment/formations in this book?

Anything else of note that wasn't covered in the leaks? (Don't think so based on your summary but thought it worth asking)

**axisofentropy**

GoonBandito wrote:

* Psychic Powers are, as far as I can see, exactly the same as the Angels of Death powers just renamed.

lol

**SicSemperTyrannis**

Does the "Veterans of the Legions" Aux Formation really get no bonuses?

**GoonBandito**

Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Any direct mention of using the Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter supplements with the detachment/formations in this book?

Anything else of note that wasn't covered in the leaks? (Don't think so based on your summary but thought it worth asking)

Nope, those leaks earlier in the week were of everything but the Renegade Knight (which is the same as the dataslates from the Renegade Knight Boxset), the Psychic Powers (which are the same as the Angels of Death powers, just renamed) and the 6 new Tactical Objectives. A Dataslate for the Lord of Skulls and its wargear is in the book too, but it is unchanged from Escalation.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
Does the "Veterans of the Legions" Aux Formation really get no bonuses?

"Veterans of the Legions" and "Spawn" are simply Auxiliary Choices for the Black Crusade Detachment. They'll get the Black Crusade bonuses (Hatred Imperium, Free VotLW, one character in the detachment gets a Free Boon per turn) but thats it.

**Warhams-77**

silverstu wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic Custodes models will be in the next HH boardgame according to Sad Panda. Sisters of Silence as well. That 'Guilliman storyline' getting a comment from Hastings though, is new info

Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Deathguard-focused campaign book, maybe? Like in End Times with several plastic kits? Blight drones, Plague Marines and Mortarion?

Yeah- Custodes in the next boardgame, returning Primarchs- it makes sense for a Custodes army to head the counter crusade and plus it gives GW the new "elite marine" range to push- sets the tone to almost Heresy levels. I hope the xenos up their games in some way as well- a new evolution of Tyranids, new Tau advances, ancient tech employed by the older races [eldar/necrons] and bigger, badder orks.
The plague army- plague zombies with cult options from the Plague guard could be quite likely- maybe dedicated daemon engines?

Custodes would work well as an army in the 40k setting, I hope they will do this - at least like they made Cataphractii armour available in 40k via datasheets.

Regarding a Khorne model update, that wasnt rumored by reliable sources and Berzerkers are an old kit but a plastic one at least. Not that it wouldnt need an update - like a lot of the range.

But if they will bring out a new range of RT-style, baroque basic CSM, why do new Berzerkers now? I built my Black Legion 'CCW squad' with Berzerker legs, and my World Eaters with CSM weapons. They are pretty much compatible, like the new Kharn and the Dark Vengeance Chosen are style-wise already. If they update the basic kit, Berzerkers/Khorne Marines/World Eaters could be done with just a different sprue of weapons, shoulder pads and helmets.

Nurgle though lacks Plague Marines. They do not even have a basic kit in plastic. Same with Thousand Sons who we know from reliable sources will get a plastic update. So it could be GW will do Khorne justice but they will get theirs via CSM.

**Motograter**

Warhams-77 wrote:
silverstu wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic Custodes models will be in the next HH boardgame according to Sad Panda. Sisters of Silence as well. That 'Guilliman storyline' getting a comment from Hastings though, is new info

Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Deathguard-focused campaign book, maybe? Like in End Times with several plastic kits? Blight drones, Plague Marines and Mortarion?

Yeah- Custodes in the next boardgame, returning Primarchs- it makes sense for a Custodes army to head the counter crusade and plus it gives GW the new "elite marine" range to push- sets the tone to almost Heresy levels. I hope the xenos up their games in some way as well- a new evolution of Tyranids, new Tau advances, ancient tech employed by the older races [eldar/necrons] and bigger, badder orks.
The plague army- plague zombies with cult options from the Plague guard could be quite likely- maybe dedicated daemon engines?

Custodes would work well as an army in the 40k setting, I hope they will do this - at least like they made Cataphractii armour available in 40k via datasheets.

Regarding a Khorne model update, that wasnt rumored by reliable sources and Berzerkers are an old kit but a plastic one at least. Not that it wouldnt need an update - like a lot of the range.

But if they will bring out a new range of RT-style, baroque basic CSM, why do new Berzerkers now? I built my Black Legion 'CCW squad' with Berzerker legs, and my World Eaters with CSM weapons. They are pretty much compatible, like the new Kharn and the Dark Vengeance Chosen are style-wise already. If they update the basic kit, Berzerkers/Khorne Marines/World Eaters could be done with just a different sprue of weapons, shoulder pads and helmets.

Nurgle though lacks Plague Marines. They do not even have a basic kit in plastic. Same with Thousand Sons who we know from reliable sources will get a plastic update. So it could be GW will do Khorne justice but they will get theirs via CSM.

Cos having plastic kits stopped gw redoing all the imperial marines oh......
Setting aside dark vengeance box, helbrute's, dinobots and raptors the entire chaos range needs a total start over. New berzerkers could have come out with Khârn to make them look like they actually belong together.

They could just update the csm box to start and do what they did with marines by giving little clampack upgrade sprues. For example khorne- heads, shoulder pads, front torso, power axe, chain axes.

Slaanesh- heads, sonic weapons, pads, torso, backpacks so on and so on. Problem solved

**Warhams-77**

I would have loved it, if they did, too. But like I said. It wasnt the right time to do so, maybe?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks, GoonBandito

**Crazyterran**

Motograter wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
silverstu wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic Custodes models will be in the next HH boardgame according to Sad Panda. Sisters of Silence as well. That 'Guilliman storyline' getting a comment from Hastings though, is new info

Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Deathguard-focused campaign book, maybe? Like in End Times with several plastic kits? Blight drones, Plague Marines and Mortarion?

Yeah- Custodes in the next boardgame, returning Primarchs- it makes sense for a Custodes army to head the counter crusade and plus it gives GW the new "elite marine" range to push- sets the tone to almost Heresy levels. I hope the xenos up their games in some way as well- a new evolution of Tyranids, new Tau advances, ancient tech employed by the older races [eldar/necrons] and bigger, badder orks.
The plague army- plague zombies with cult options from the Plague guard could be quite likely- maybe dedicated daemon engines?

Custodes would work well as an army in the 40k setting, I hope they will do this - at least like they made Cataphractii armour available in 40k via datasheets.

Regarding a Khorne model update, that wasnt rumored by reliable sources and Berzerkers are an old kit but a plastic one at least. Not that it wouldnt need an update - like a lot of the range.

But if they will bring out a new range of RT-style, baroque basic CSM, why do new Berzerkers now? I built my Black Legion 'CCW squad' with Berzerker legs, and my World Eaters with CSM weapons. They are pretty much compatible, like the new Kharn and the Dark Vengeance Chosen are style-wise already. If they update the basic kit, Berzerkers/Khorne Marines/World Eaters could be done with just a different sprue of weapons, shoulder pads and helmets.

Nurgle though lacks Plague Marines. They do not even have a basic kit in plastic. Same with Thousand Sons who we know from reliable sources will get a plastic update. So it could be GW will do Khorne justice but they will get theirs via CSM.

Cos having plastic kits stopped gw redoing all the imperial marines oh......
Setting aside dark vengeance box, helbrute's, dinobots and raptors the entire chaos range needs a total start over. New berzerkers could have come out with Khârn to make them look like they actually belong together.

They could just update the csm box to start and do what they did with marines by giving little clampack upgrade sprues. For example khorne- heads, shoulder pads, front torso, power axe, chain axes.

Slaanesh- heads, sonic weapons, pads, torso, backpacks so on and so on. Problem solved

So you'd get 10 world eater (or khorne) marked pads, a Khorne Berserker helmet, a bare head, a daemon axe, a chain axe, and a front torso.

For the slaanesh marines, you'd get ten Slaanesh marked pads, a sonic weapon, a daemon sabre of some kind, a noise marine helmet, a noise marine bare head, and a front torso, >.>

**Warhams-77**

They could use the 'Baroque Trader-style' CAD files and create two or three 'unique' Berzerker sprues with lots of Khorne bits added to it, they could go for a starter set or a boxed game with multipart sprues first and a regular release later. There are a lot of possibilities. GW tends to prefer 'look, new shiny"-releases and offering updated 'Zerkers now could (from the perspective of GW marketing madness) have taken steam away from the new Vanilla CSM wave. Again, not that I think it is good to keep selling the old kit, but I imagine that is what GW is doing and why.

**Motograter**

Warhams-77 wrote:
They could use the 'Baroque Trader-style' CAD files and create two or three 'unique' Berzerker sprues with lots of Khorne bits added to it, they could go for a starter set or a boxed game with multipart sprues first and a regular release later. There are a lot of possibilities. GW tends to prefer 'look, new shiny"-releases and offering updated 'Zerkers now could (from the perspective of GW marketing madness) have taken steam away from the new Vanilla CSM wave. Again, not that I think it is good to keep selling the old kit, but I imagine that is what GW is doing and why.

Why would it take away from it? Its just a book and rehashed psychic powers plus the khorne formation in the book with new Khârn screams for a release. Updated Khârn is ok and all but they could have given chaos releases that they desperately need instead of one single character. Its just lazy. I am hoping that chaos will get updated and updated soon, not just codex but the models too.

A generic csm squad with clam packs for the original legions would fly off the shelves. It also saves space so gw wouldn't need 6 million boxes like they do with imperial marines. Then plastic havcs, chosen, cultists, oblit/ mutilators. Updated terminators, new sorcerer, new lord. Maybe update the bikes buf its not essential. All these releases they could spread out across a few months then drop the new dex with brand new daemon engines, vehicles, pods etc. Have the ground work basic force updated then slam out the dark mech stuff along with the book and a redo of Abaddon.

It would cause frenzy for folks wanting to get into chaos and for folks like myself who've been playing chaos for 20+ years

**GoonBandito**

Summary of the Traitor's Hate fluff if anyone is interested: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/701869.page

**SirDigby**

I'm just glad we didn't get the worst powers of Angels of Death copied over, and then terrible new Chaos version to replace the good ones. I was honestly expecting us to get something worse.

What about a Tzeentch Cabal with Sigils & Veil of Time, zooming around on discs with 3++ rerollable. Chuck in a Force Axe or two and with Might of Heroes + Force you'll be butchering face. -Just a bugger you'll be forced to lose one of your rolls for taking MoT.

**redleger**

I wanna make sure I'm not losing my mind. My understanding is no new relics, and not useable with Black Legion, so can't use their relics. In other words vanilla relics only?