GW News & Rumours [40K]: 30k Ahriman, 40k Kharn, Void Shield gen & CSM Black Crusade supplement

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Drasius**

Gamgee wrote:
Initial impressions from Frankie and Reece on signals is good. I also could tell it was good when I seen it.

At this point your army is now extremely powerful due to the deathstars you can make and some really good support formations. The DE, Orks, and IG all need way more than you need even more OP easy I win button formations and psychic powers.

They get kicked almost to the top of the meta and they still whine. Certainly near the top of the mid-tier maybe even as high as Tau.
I actually think the amount of whiny Chaos players is going up the more stuff they get and the stronger they get. I say nerf them so we only have to deal with an bearable low level of droning. It was a neat experiment but we now see first hand why GW doesn't give them stuff. Fact. http://www.totellstories.com/40k/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg1gTas7OAA#t=9m18s and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ymc_5dake0#t=2m19s

You really have absolutely no clue what you are talking about don't you?

**Gamgee**

Source their latest signals. http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/4/3/0/43019ef6878c0311/111_signals_audio_465.mp3?c_id=12717875&expiration=1473503489&hwt=516ff3c9853e3f92c37e9b06ef91e492

**Davor**

Gamgee wrote:Initial impressions from Frankie and Reece on signals is good. I also could tell it was good when I seen it.

At this point your army is now extremely powerful due to the deathstars you can make and some really good support formations. The DE, Orks, and IG all need way more than you need even more OP easy I win button formations and psychic powers.

Heaven forbid Chaos Space Marine players what character and fun, not "extremely powerful deathstars". You do know a lot of CSM players don't need to or want to win with the plastic toy soldiers but have fun with them?
Just like Tyranid or Ork players, they want to play, have fun BUT NOT BE DISADNAVATAGED when a mini is not even on the table yet?

How is having a deathstar unit having fun with Chaos? That is playing to win with plastic toy soldiers. How about people wanting character and fun in their codex, not just the "I Win" button.

**BroodSpawn**

Davor wrote:
Gamgee wrote:Initial impressions from Frankie and Reece on signals is good. I also could tell it was good when I seen it.

At this point your army is now extremely powerful due to the deathstars you can make and some really good support formations. The DE, Orks, and IG all need way more than you need even more OP easy I win button formations and psychic powers.

Heaven forbid Chaos Space Marine players what character and fun, not "extremely powerful deathstars". You do know a lot of CSM players don't need to or want to win with the plastic toy soldiers but have fun with them?
Just like Tyranid or Ork players, they want to play, have fun BUT NOT BE DISADVANTAGED when a mini is not even on the table yet?

How is having a deathstar unit having fun with Chaos? That is playing to win with plastic toy soldiers. How about people wanting character and fun in their codex, not just the "I Win" button.

Ah but you forget, the only people allowed to have 'fun' in this game are the competitive, tournament, ITC crowd. If it's not Top 3/5/10/16* (*delete as required) viable it's not worth playing. One of the reasons I can't go back to some of the Tyranid discussion boards, it just devolves into 'play Flyrants and these specific models as well and ignore 90% of the cool models'.

I'm not sure what the complaint is for Chaos now though. Yes models are old and need updating, but you're not alone in that though I do grant there are a fair few that need new kits from this range. The rules added are pretty cool, look fluffy and aren't bad.

**redleger**

So my first game is today, battle scribe updated, and I have been expirementing with lists all day. I am playing vs 2k of loyalist crap. (wolves which almost always kick my rear).

Here is the deal. due to the 3-5 units rule on most formations, it is still extremely hard to fit a large number of units on the table, unless I spam MSU. That wont wort for CSM as those chosen, vanilla, havocs will just die in place grotesquely. OK, I start looking at the cabal, some daemon engine support. I cut my unit count in half. OK, lets spam cultists as a core. Nope, still having issues creating synergy within the detachment that way.

Ill see how it works out, but I know CSM very well, and unless I pick from only select units to create a death star, its still gonna be the same problems with nothing solved. I am not whining I am simply stating a fact. I will take pictures and post abattle report in the appropriate thread, and hopefully i will be pleaseantly surprised, but I doubt it.

**Wayniac**

I find it funny that anyone gives a gak what the ITC "let's make everything competitive" people say. These same people post lists that say one thing and have nothing even remotely showing them to be that, for example they'll post an "Iron Warriors" CSM list and then you see Nurgle everywhere, zombies, allied Tzeentch, etc. nothing that makes it "Iron Warriors" besides a name and, presumably, a paint scheme.

For a game like 40k, that isn't even intended to be played in a tournament, their opinions are less than worthless to me because they are actively trying to corrupt the game into something it's not and then feel that their viewpoints on how to "build" a list that has virtually zero resemblance to anything the way it should look like is somehow an indication that a supplement is good/bad.

**ZebioLizard2**

Speaking of "Top of the Meta", do we have any actual evidence of such or is it pure theorycrafting, considering how long it's been out and all.

**axisofentropy**

Gamgee is the only user I've blocked and this is a good example why.

**ZebioLizard2**

Well if he wants to say they are as high as Tau now, he should be able to conclusively provide some evidence as to why eh?

**adamsouza**

Blood Angels Codex: Red Thirst Edition

Codex: Blood Angels – Red Thirst Edition

A digital-exclusive Warhammer 40,000 Codex

Codex: Blood Angels details one of the Imperium's oldest and most enduring Space Marine Chapters. Inside you will learn about their history, their heroes and the terrible effects of the Black Rage and the Red Thirst that assail their battle-brothers.

CONTENTS

46 datasheets for the entire range of Blood Angels Citadel Miniatures
10 formations, themed collections of datasheets with additional special rules
Three detachments – the Baal Strike Force, Angel's Blade Strike Force and Lost Brotherhood Strike Force
Full details for Blood Angels wargear and two sets of relics
Army special rules, including two sets of Warlord Traits and Tactical Objectives
Five Psychic disciplines: Sanguinary, Librarius, Technomancy, Fulmination and Geokinesis
A comprehensive guide to the Blood Angels, their history and their rituals
A showcase of stunning Citadel Miniatures presenting the colours and heraldry of the Blood Angels

DESCRIPTION
Forged in the flames of the Horus Heresy, the Blood Angels are among the greatest of the Emperor's warriors. Revered on a million worlds and feared by Mankind's myriad foes, for over ten thousand years they have fought in the Emperor's name, earning countless honours and vanquishing his enemies. Yet for all their nobility and renown, dark rumours of a bloody thirst and battle madness surround them, some questioning their very humanity. Whatever the truth, few who have witnessed them in battle can deny their fury or their devotion to the Emperor, and few that stand against them live to tell the tale.

This digital-exclusive Red Thirst Edition combines the content of Codex: Blood Angels with the new Blood Angels rules from Black Crusade: Traitor's Hate, forming the ultimate collection of rules for the Sons of Sanguinius.

**Sersi**

tneva82 wrote:
gorgon wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Chaos-Bizarro-Land: Where access to Psychic Powers that were widely decried as broken or overly powerful when previously released is somehow a bad thing.

IMO, part of what's going on here is that CSM players -- as the fluff would suggest -- are a fairly fractured bunch who don't agree on what CSM need. The lack of consensus is why they seem to always be complaining.

You got the part about complaining right. I have yet to read anything ORIGINAL by any chaos player in the last...Oh 10 years?

Why would you hear anything original complaint wise. The problem have never been corrected. The codex has gotten worse every time its been updated. The problems have been very obvious for a very long time.

**H.B.M.C.**

tneva82 wrote:
You got the part about complaining right. I have yet to read anything ORIGINAL by any chaos player in the last...Oh 10 years?

That's cause we haven't had a good Codex in 10 years.

Well, 9, really. The 'Chaos' Codex came out in 2007.

**Sersi**

BroodSpawn wrote:
Davor wrote:
Gamgee wrote:Initial impressions from Frankie and Reece on signals is good. I also could tell it was good when I seen it.

At this point your army is now extremely powerful due to the deathstars you can make and some really good support formations. The DE, Orks, and IG all need way more than you need even more OP easy I win button formations and psychic powers.

Heaven forbid Chaos Space Marine players what character and fun, not "extremely powerful deathstars". You do know a lot of CSM players don't need to or want to win with the plastic toy soldiers but have fun with them?
Just like Tyranid or Ork players, they want to play, have fun BUT NOT BE DISADVANTAGED when a mini is not even on the table yet?

How is having a deathstar unit having fun with Chaos? That is playing to win with plastic toy soldiers. How about people wanting character and fun in their codex, not just the "I Win" button.

Ah but you forget, the only people allowed to have 'fun' in this game are the competitive, tournament, ITC crowd. If it's not Top 3/5/10/16* (*delete as required) viable it's not worth playing. One of the reasons I can't go back to some of the Tyranid discussion boards, it just devolves into 'play Flyrants and these specific models as well and ignore 90% of the cool models'.

I'm not sure what the complaint is for Chaos now though. Yes models are old and need updating, but you're not alone in that though I do grant there are a fair few that need new kits from this range. The rules added are pretty cool, look fluffy and aren't bad.

You don't have to be a win at all cost player to want to have a fair chance of winning. Most of these formations are either bad, inefficient , or have a heavy tax on them. The new powers are nice but C:SM have the same powers and better rules to begin with. He's right not everyone plays deathstars, cabals, or only takes cultists as troops. For that matter not every Chaos player took 3 Heldrakes when they were good. Many Chaos players want to play actual Chaos marines. I could care less about new models, as you can always proxy or convert. I'd like to see the Cults, and actual marine parts of the codex get some focus.

CSM are missing a lot of the tactical options that the "good" armies have. No reserve manipulation, no scatter manipulation, no reliable access to infiltration, and poor transport options, and assault unit lacking basic options like grenades. These were the types of problem that our formations could have addressed. We know this because C:SM who had all of those thing in their codex got even better at them with their formations.

**Gamgee**

Davor wrote:
Gamgee wrote:Initial impressions from Frankie and Reece on signals is good. I also could tell it was good when I seen it.

At this point your army is now extremely powerful due to the deathstars you can make and some really good support formations. The DE, Orks, and IG all need way more than you need even more OP easy I win button formations and psychic powers.

Heaven forbid Chaos Space Marine players what character and fun, not "extremely powerful deathstars". You do know a lot of CSM players don't need to or want to win with the plastic toy soldiers but have fun with them?
Just like Tyranid or Ork players, they want to play, have fun BUT NOT BE DISADNAVATAGED when a mini is not even on the table yet?

How is having a deathstar unit having fun with Chaos? That is playing to win with plastic toy soldiers. How about people wanting character and fun in their codex, not just the "I Win" button.

In that case no codex uses all its units not even the Eldar (though they do have the widest options). Massive amounts of my codex are useless, massive amounts of yours are useless, and so on and so forth. I want to use and take Kroot and Vespird and my tanks but I can't since they are so junk. That is not exclusive to CSM and I have no idea what CSM players think they have the right to whine so much about their poor internal codex balancing like its their damn right or something when almost every codex has that issue. The DE codex I want to use witches and all the bad units but I can't. In every game system ever no matter how balanced there will always be some units who aren't good. That's just how math works out. You can do your best to minimize this effect but then it turns the game more bland and less flavorful. I personally would not mind that. However many people complain when most armies rules look and play the same even though it will then come down more to skill than list building to win.

If you as a community complained about poor internal balancing of codices as a problem as a whole I would be on board, but the CSM players in particular seem to really think they're the only ones with problems and the only ones who need help and should get it. Even if we go back to a casual lists and games your now far more powerful with fun lists than de, orks, and IG easily.

Edit
Also I never block people on any internet forum or in real life. As annoying as some people are they do occasionally raise fair points and I learn from them. Also even if most people disagree with me I can take it since I'm comfortable with who I am. It's not the end of the world for me if people disagree with me. Sometimes I'm even wrong. With people of today however people need their safety bubbles I guess.

**Wulfmar**

As a long-time Chaos Marine, Ork and Dark Eldar player, I find the idea that Chaos is OP or has super-powerful combinations compared to my other two forces... laughable.

can we cut out all this 'people who play this army are all whinging' talk? It's simply not the case and it's unfair labeling everyone

**Gamgee**

I never once used the term OP. I just said moved to the top of mid tier at best. Still way better than most armies now though. A lot of people think Tau are OP and they are patently wrong every time.

**Crimson Devil**

Gamgee wrote:

Edit
Also I never block people on any internet forum or in real life. As annoying as some people are they do occasionally raise fair points and I learn from them. Also even if most people disagree with me I can take it since I'm comfortable with who I am. It's not the end of the world for me if people disagree with me. Sometimes I'm even wrong. With people of today however people need their safety bubbles I guess.

It's not about safety bubbles. It's the fact you come across as arrogant and obnoxious. It doesn't matter how good your point is if you kill the message with an unpleasant personality.

**Sersi**

Gamgee wrote:
I never once used the term OP. I just said moved to the top of mid tier at best. Still way better than most armies now though. A lot of people think Tau are OP and they are patently wrong every time.

Way better than most armies? Half armies in the games are some version of loyalist marines. Then you have Crons, Eldar, and Tau. So....

**Gamgee**

Crimson Devil wrote:
Gamgee wrote:

Edit
Also I never block people on any internet forum or in real life. As annoying as some people are they do occasionally raise fair points and I learn from them. Also even if most people disagree with me I can take it since I'm comfortable with who I am. It's not the end of the world for me if people disagree with me. Sometimes I'm even wrong. With people of today however people need their safety bubbles I guess.

It's not about safety bubbles. It's the fact you come across as arrogant and obnoxious. It doesn't matter how good your point is if you kill the message with an unpleasant personality.

A long long time ago I used to be a very nice and kind man. People didn't listen to me or take me seriously, but instead of being obnoxious I was well loved and respected. Even to the point I would get away with rule breaking due to my charming personality. Despite being on such good terms with people I tried to advise them. I chose kind words and despite giving the exact same kind of advice but in a more friendly manner they swept it away just like now except the excuses were different. Instead of obnoxious I was too kind and foolish to be right. Now that I am an alleged obnoxious man and no one listens to me or takes me seriously. So what does it matter how I act if the end result is the same? Most people simply will not listen no matter how you present yourself, and if you think they are you're only fooling yourself. The polite way they will say "I'll keep that in mind" when it never entered it in the first place or "I'll do it later" when they had no intentions of doing it.

**str00dles1**

Gamgee wrote:
Crimson Devil wrote:
Gamgee wrote:

Edit
Also I never block people on any internet forum or in real life. As annoying as some people are they do occasionally raise fair points and I learn from them. Also even if most people disagree with me I can take it since I'm comfortable with who I am. It's not the end of the world for me if people disagree with me. Sometimes I'm even wrong. With people of today however people need their safety bubbles I guess.

It's not about safety bubbles. It's the fact you come across as arrogant and obnoxious. It doesn't matter how good your point is if you kill the message with an unpleasant personality.

A long long time ago I used to be a very nice and kind man. People didn't listen to me or take me seriously, but instead of being obnoxious I was well loved and respected. Even to the point I would get away with rule breaking due to my charming personality. Despite being on such good terms with people I tried to advise them. I chose kind words and despite giving the exact same kind of advice but in a more friendly manner they swept it away just like now except the excuses were different. Instead of obnoxious I was too kind and foolish to be right. Now that I am an alleged obnoxious man and no one listens to me or takes me seriously. So what does it matter how I act if the end result is the same? Most people simply will not listen no matter how you present yourself, and if you think they are you're only fooling yourself. The polite way they will say "I'll keep that in mind" when it never entered it in the first place or "I'll do it later" when they had no intentions of doing it.

As amazing as it is to read page after page of people saying how crappy their dex is, or how gw hates chaos, I like to come to this thread to actually read real news and rumors. Theres a place for all of you to argue and yell at each other else where. Not the news and rumors thread.

Thanks

**Quarterdime**

str00dles1 wrote:
As amazing as it is to read page after page of people saying how crappy their dex is, or how gw hates chaos, I like to come to this thread to actually read real news and rumors. Theres a place for all of you to argue and yell at each other else where. Not the news and rumors thread.

Thanks

He's absolutely right. Chaos getting the short end of the stick isn't news at all.

**gorgon**

Gamgee wrote:
A long long time ago I used to be a very nice and kind man.

Anytime you see a post begin like this, you know you're in for something very, very special.

**Azreal13**

Gamgee wrote:
Crimson Devil wrote:
Gamgee wrote:

Edit
Also I never block people on any internet forum or in real life. As annoying as some people are they do occasionally raise fair points and I learn from them. Also even if most people disagree with me I can take it since I'm comfortable with who I am. It's not the end of the world for me if people disagree with me. Sometimes I'm even wrong. With people of today however people need their safety bubbles I guess.

It's not about safety bubbles. It's the fact you come across as arrogant and obnoxious. It doesn't matter how good your point is if you kill the message with an unpleasant personality.

A long long time ago I used to be a very nice and kind man. People didn't listen to me or take me seriously, but instead of being obnoxious I was well loved and respected. Even to the point I would get away with rule breaking due to my charming personality. Despite being on such good terms with people I tried to advise them. I chose kind words and despite giving the exact same kind of advice but in a more friendly manner they swept it away just like now except the excuses were different. Instead of obnoxious I was too kind and foolish to be right. Now that I am an alleged obnoxious man and no one listens to me or takes me seriously. So what does it matter how I act if the end result is the same? Most people simply will not listen no matter how you present yourself, and if you think they are you're only fooling yourself. The polite way they will say "I'll keep that in mind" when it never entered it in the first place or "I'll do it later" when they had no intentions of doing it.

Perhaps it's time to consider the fact that you give gak advice?

**Frozocrone**

adamsouza wrote:
Blood Angels Codex: Red Thirst Edition

Codex: Blood Angels – Red Thirst Edition

A digital-exclusive Warhammer 40,000 Codex

Codex: Blood Angels details one of the Imperium's oldest and most enduring Space Marine Chapters. Inside you will learn about their history, their heroes and the terrible effects of the Black Rage and the Red Thirst that assail their battle-brothers.

CONTENTS

46 datasheets for the entire range of Blood Angels Citadel Miniatures
10 formations, themed collections of datasheets with additional special rules
Three detachments – the Baal Strike Force, Angel's Blade Strike Force and Lost Brotherhood Strike Force
Full details for Blood Angels wargear and two sets of relics
Army special rules, including two sets of Warlord Traits and Tactical Objectives
Five Psychic disciplines: Sanguinary, Librarius, Technomancy, Fulmination and Geokinesis
A comprehensive guide to the Blood Angels, their history and their rituals
A showcase of stunning Citadel Miniatures presenting the colours and heraldry of the Blood Angels

DESCRIPTION
Forged in the flames of the Horus Heresy, the Blood Angels are among the greatest of the Emperor's warriors. Revered on a million worlds and feared by Mankind's myriad foes, for over ten thousand years they have fought in the Emperor's name, earning countless honours and vanquishing his enemies. Yet for all their nobility and renown, dark rumours of a bloody thirst and battle madness surround them, some questioning their very humanity. Whatever the truth, few who have witnessed them in battle can deny their fury or their devotion to the Emperor, and few that stand against them live to tell the tale.

This digital-exclusive Red Thirst Edition combines the content of Codex: Blood Angels with the new Blood Angels rules from Black Crusade: Traitor's Hate, forming the ultimate collection of rules for the Sons of Sanguinius.

As awesome as this is for BA players, they really should just make it a free download or at least have a cheap hardback version for people who prefer physical copies. The rules are just going to get leaked online anyway. The rules better be on par with what every other top faction has though.

I personally won't be buying it though, because I've stopped playing and have started to sell all my stuff. Part of that was because I didn't like the direction they were going in, the other part was it's my most expensive hobby and I need funds for real life events, like rent, food etc. Not going to be able to support this hobby when I leave the nest.

Don't understand why the ITC was brought into discussion. They don't make the rules for Games Workshop products.

**JimOnMars**

46 datasheets for the entire range of Blood Angels Citadel Miniatures

Forty-six?!?! Does anyone else see this as jaw-dropping awesome as I do?

If only GW does this will all the codexes..

Of course, no guarantee than all or any of these have been changed.

**MajorWesJanson**

JimOnMars wrote:
46 datasheets for the entire range of Blood Angels Citadel Miniatures
Forty-six?!?! Does anyone else see this as jaw-dropping awesome as I do?

If only GW does this will all the codexes..

Of course, no guarantee than all or any of these have been changed.

It's just the army list. Nothing special, especially when BA have quite a few characters still.

**Talys**

Got two VSG's -- they were on allocation at my store >.<

It's a very nice kit. If they were cheaper, I would have bought a few kits just to get the verticals to use as terrain, and the bases as generic platforms. I'm so glad now that I sold my resin one for some obscene amount of money, lol.

JimOnMars wrote:
46 datasheets for the entire range of Blood Angels Citadel Miniatures
Forty-six?!?! Does anyone else see this as jaw-dropping awesome as I do?

If only GW does this will all the codexes..

Of course, no guarantee than all or any of these have been changed.

hahaha... the ultimate troll codex... PRESTO, here are the old datsheets, in their pristine, classic form but with shiny new page number! Somehow, I don't see it though

I'm so pumped. LEAK! LEAK! LEAK! LEAK!

**Alpharius**

Quick reminder: RULE #2 is STAY ON TOPIC.

**DaPino**

Got the book today. I was pleasantly suprised that its story part reads more like a novel than as a formal description of the events. Looking forward to the BA release even though I don't play the army myself.
As many have said I'm not convinced that this book fixes the inherent problems with the army, I'm still happy with it. There're some fun things I'm looking forward to include in my list.

I'm looking forward to what's coming our way next. When I finally get that new Ahriman sculpt in my hands, people are going to hear me shriek from miles away.

Gamgee wrote:
Crimson Devil wrote:
Gamgee wrote:

Edit
Also I never block people on any internet forum or in real life. As annoying as some people are they do occasionally raise fair points and I learn from them. Also even if most people disagree with me I can take it since I'm comfortable with who I am. It's not the end of the world for me if people disagree with me. Sometimes I'm even wrong. With people of today however people need their safety bubbles I guess.

It's not about safety bubbles. It's the fact you come across as arrogant and obnoxious. It doesn't matter how good your point is if you kill the message with an unpleasant personality.

A long long time ago I used to be a very nice and kind man. People didn't listen to me or take me seriously, but instead of being obnoxious I was well loved and respected. Even to the point I would get away with rule breaking due to my charming personality. Despite being on such good terms with people I tried to advise them. I chose kind words and despite giving the exact same kind of advice but in a more friendly manner they swept it away just like now except the excuses were different. Instead of obnoxious I was too kind and foolish to be right. Now that I am an alleged obnoxious man and no one listens to me or takes me seriously. So what does it matter how I act if the end result is the same? Most people simply will not listen no matter how you present yourself, and if you think they are you're only fooling yourself. The polite way they will say "I'll keep that in mind" when it never entered it in the first place or "I'll do it later" when they had no intentions of doing it.

A message (this includes advice) has two components: The content of the message and how it's brought (a.k.a. how you act).
If you say that "how it's brought doesn't matter" then I think it's time to face the fact that the content is the problem.
Also, being "willing to listen" and "agreeing with you" are two totally different things, especially if you are wrong.

You have been repeatedly asked to provide us with any evidence as to these supposedly "extremely powerful death stars" that "kicks us near the top of the meta" which this book enables. The only thing you posted so far in response to that is a 57 minute podcast that lightly touches on the subject (and in some cases just lacks the right information).
It mentions the "cabal deathstar" as "CSM being powerful". However, more often than not involves either (mostly the daemon part of) Khorne Daemonkin, Tzeentch Daemons or a combination of both. This is the same argument as people saying Renegades and Heretics fixes CSM. Adding 2 different armies does not make CSM, as an army, better. It only stresses the fact that the army is not good enough to stand on its own.

**bubber**

To peeps with all 3 Chaos Sups (BL, CS & TH), can I make a decent DG force? If so, which of the books should I buy (from 0 to all 3)?
Cheers!