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Still nothing to fix the fact that Marked Sorcerers are garbage compared to Unmarked.

 GoonBandito wrote:
Summary of the Traitor's Hate fluff if anyone is interested: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/701869.page

Thanks.

Requizen wrote:
Still nothing to fix the fact that Marked Sorcerers are garbage compared to Unmarked.

So don't mark them? I'd never do that from the get-go as that messes with sticking with a single discipline anyway.

Haha, they were so lazy with the cut and paste that the one that gives Power of the Machine spirit says "if a model already has the rule, then bs goes up by 1". Silly GW, it's chaos we don't got no POTMS.

Saw this on Facebook and was wondering if anyone here had seen it or knows anything about it?

bogalubov wrote:
Haha, they were so lazy with the cut and paste that the one that gives Power of the Machine spirit says "if a model already has the rule, then bs goes up by 1". Silly GW, it's chaos we don't got no POTMS.

That's not a mistake, that's contingent planning. Something they don't do very often and upsets people with bad reading comprehension.

 Breotan wrote:
Saw this on Facebook and was wondering if anyone here had seen it or knows anything about it?

Spoiler:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/699906.page#8883984

 DarknessEternal wrote:

bogalubov wrote:
Haha, they were so lazy with the cut and paste that the one that gives Power of the Machine spirit says "if a model already has the rule, then bs goes up by 1". Silly GW, it's chaos we don't got no POTMS.

That's not a mistake, that's contingent planning. Something they don't do very often and upsets people with bad reading comprehension.

Mmmh...riiiiight.

You could hit the same vehicle with it twice from 2 different sorceres, POTMS and +1 BS


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Fhionnuisce wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 redleger wrote:
I wanna make sure I'm not losing my mind. My understanding is no new relics, and not useable with Black Legion, so can't use their relics. In other words vanilla relics only?

Why can't it be Black Legion?

Im not 100% sure on this, but since this is a suppliment and not a codex, unless the suppliment specifically says may take from x codex/suppliment, then the suppliment then only refers back to the vanilla codex for relics right? I mean most suppliments have their own relics, but apparently this one does not, so how does this interact with the rest of the CSM stuff?

With regards to the formations at least the BL and CS books allow you to take any CSM formation as BL/CS. So unless something in this book specifically prohibits that should be good. Can't speak to relics or anything else.

and I am sure that is how it works, but the exception is relics. BL and CS relics are not CSM relics per se. There is written permission to use either or in the suppliment. AS BL for example, you can't use CS relics and vice versa. So with that being said, is there anything permissive in this suppliment that allows CS, BL or CSM relics to be used?

 redleger wrote:
You could hit the same vehicle with it twice from 2 different sorceres, POTMS and +1 BS

That's almost as good as using 3 lord of skulls just to get some terrible formation ability. So.. 2 sorcerers + a bad CSM vehicle just to give it a mediocre special rule and an additional BS with subpar weapons. Hm.

didn't say it was a good idea, but that is what the wording would allow.

 Breotan wrote:
Saw this on Facebook and was wondering if anyone here had seen it or knows anything about it?

needs moar skullz

so if you don't live near a GW store, you are SOL?

I gotta say, identical heretic versions of the Space Marine disciplines just feels creatively bankrupt to me. I've never been clear on why Marines got their exclusive psychic stuff to begin with, though. Was it just that the core rulebook disciplines have been invalidated by codex creep?

 redleger wrote:
so if you don't live near a GW store, you are SOL?

Only if you want to "buy" it

its kinda gaky for us in the state.

its probably fantastic for them brits who have like 10 stores within 50 miles.

So I finally finished the thread. Thank you to everybody posting about BA and AoS as that allowed me to skip a lot of posts....

I'm not 100% thrilled with this book, but I do think it helps. Is it the ott crap that some other armies got? No, but I never really wanted that, and I don't think most CSM players are asking for that. I do think some of the formations help and I really want to run the Raptor one and charge out of DS with the Talons. I wish they hadn't been so lazy with the psychic powers, though. How hard would it be to write up spells that are approximately the same power level as the loyalist powers, but not the same as those powers? That's one against the designers. As for Kharn, I'm on the fence about the new model, otherwise he hasn't changed, but I guess there was no reason to expect he would....except for being able to use him in KDK, I still don't understand why you can't use him in KDK. BTW, as a house rule, I would let anybody using KDK use him as an HQ as it's just goofy to not have him there. I so want to run the full decurion, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to buy that many Warpsmiths along with the other stuff I would need to get it running......

 redleger wrote:
You could hit the same vehicle with it twice from 2 different sorceres, POTMS and +1 BS

Nope, not even that works. p.26: " The benefit of any one particular blessing can only be gained once per unit per turn..."
it may be a different effect each time you cast it, but it's the same blessing.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I gotta say, identical heretic versions of the Space Marine disciplines just feels creatively bankrupt to me. I've never been clear on why Marines got their exclusive psychic stuff to begin with, though. Was it just that the core rulebook disciplines have been invalidated by codex creep?

I am honestly of the opinion that these books are just stopgaps until a major overhaul in 8e. If the 40k releases feel lazy, I'm going to hold my judgement until the new edition comes out and either turns them on their head or resets a lot of the stuff we're seeing right now.

Since the first post of this thread is no longer being updated, I went ahead and made a new thread here for the Blood Angels releases.http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/701919.page

Do the movement psychic power such as the shifting worldscape equivalent fix CSM's delivery problem? I for one am wondering about loading a forest with 9 exalted flamers then teleporting them around the battlefield. It fixes their lack of relentless and short range. Also, the ignore cover psychic power could be useful on say the renegade night with gatling cannons. 4++ cultists from a sorcerer bubble power.

I don't like the copy/paste job for lack of flavor, but it does give CSM some interesting options since these powers are pretty powerful. Too bad the two main movement ones will probably get nerfed in the ITC format.

It doesn't fix them but it helps. Being psychic powers means you need a fair amount of warpcharges and psykers to get what you need and be able to cast them. That's still no guarantee you get what you need and then it can still be denied, not to mention the possibility of perils.

Roknar wrote:
It doesn't fix them but it helps. Being psychic powers means you need a fair amount of warpcharges and psykers to get what you need and be able to cast them. That's still no guarantee you get what you need and then it can still be denied, not to mention the possibility of perils.

This is where the cabal come in handy

Requizen wrote:
Still nothing to fix the fact that Marked Sorcerers are garbage compared to Unmarked.

Doesn't that last page state that my (thousand sons) sorcerers can generate from any of those including ones they already know? Rerollable saves here we come!

Psychic powers are unreliable until you're spending most of your army to cast roughly 1 power per 500 points.

Requizen wrote:
I am honestly of the opinion that these books are just stopgaps until a major overhaul in 8e. If the 40k releases feel lazy, I'm going to hold my judgement until the new edition comes out and either turns them on their head or resets a lot of the stuff we're seeing right now.

We should get an idea real soon with the BA release. If it's a lazy crock of gak then you're right. If it's a lovingly crafted masterpiece of careful game design then Hater's Trait is just GW phoning it in again just like all the other Chaos releases for the last 10 years.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Still nothing to fix the fact that Marked Sorcerers are garbage compared to Unmarked.

Doesn't that last page state that my (thousand sons) sorcerers can generate from any of those including ones they already know? Rerollable saves here we come!

Nah, they already can roll on malefic and sanctic. The problem is that the mark forces them to roll at least once on the tzeentch table, and that happens to be the only roll they get.

I'm going to go out of my way and say I like the fact that we get copies of the SM powers. They're really good powers and even went through the trouble of giving them unique flavor.

Is this relevant to the game? Well, not really but at least we get some good powers out of it. No one I know uses a lot of psychic powers so I'm rather stoked to use them.

Chaos-Bizarro-Land: Where access to Psychic Powers that were widely decried as broken or overly powerful when previously released is somehow a bad thing.

The only powers really decried as being too powerful were Writhing Worldscape and Electrodisplacement as they allow for Melee Deathstars to break heads turn 1. The rest of the powers ranged between weak to meh to pretty decent.

Last I checked CSMs lacked decent Melee Deathstars.

EDIT: That being said though, the new Possessed Formation can probably fill this gap. As long as the prince has wings and you get one of those 2 Psychic Powers (and you have another fast unit in position to switch the possessed with for Electrodisplacement) at least one Possessed unit will be breaking heads.

 Desubot wrote:
its kinda gaky for us in the state.

Or Oz where I doubt they are even opening more stores.

Just more obstacles to buying the things we want. What other company would make its fans jump through these sorts of hoops to buy something new?