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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066522358/miniature-holders-and-grips-for-painting-and-sculp/

MajorTom11's opinion:


I recently had the opportunity to give Stephan Rath’s new v3 Miniature Holders and Grips a try. I have been painting miniatures for a good 25 years now on and off, and over the course of my hobbying career have given quite a few holders a shot, from simple corks to the ubiquitous 80’s alligator clip and magnifying glass armature to pin vices to peg grips. Quite a few flavors, has to be at least 8-9 different models over the years.

In the end I always ended up going back to holding the base naked, the closest I ever came to prolonged use was an extra wide, beveled cork, but ultimately, they usually end up being too narrow to safely stand a mini, especially one on a larger 40mm base.

Jason Martin (Redrum), someone who’s work I follow on Facebook was showing WIPs a few weeks ago and I noticed a very interesting looking holder was being used in many of the pics. I inquired after it with him and he let me know these were pre-release, v3 holders by Stephan Rath. I immediately reached out hoping I would be able to purchase an advanced set myself, and fortunately, I was in luck! (Thanks Stephan!)

The review:

There are two models of Stephan Rath’s V-3 series miniatures holders, the smaller, finger gripped Holder model, and the larger, full hand Grip model. Both share a great variety of bars and cork adapters to accommodate most if not all popular miniature scales.

Aesthetics
On first impression these products are absolutely gorgeous. Natural beech woods (with a stained walnut option on the larger Holder model), delicately etched, ergonomically designed with pleasing curves evoking high end wood products in home design… They look professional and if I may, classy. You will be proud to have these guys at your desk believe me, they don’t look like toys or plastic doo-dads, but true artistic tools.

Feel
Next, when you actually pick it up and hold it in your hand… perfect. As mentioned, these products are clearly ergonomically designed with your hand in mind, both the handle/grip itself, as well as the protective swivel bar are extremely comfortable to hold and manipulate. In addition, they are light as a feather unlike many holders I have used, and you will have no problem using them for many hours on end. Being made from true woods and finely shaped cork, they are also durable and solid and despite their feather weight.

Function: The Holder model
As good as the look and feel are, they aren’t worth much if the thing doesn’t work! Fortunately, the function of these grips in impeccable. Truly in a league of their own as far as I am concerned. The holders are wide enough to comfortably and stably take any miniature from 28 -50mm scale, even up to 75mm depending on weight. Attaching miniatures via tab or pin is laughably easy, the cork has a deep clean cut through the middle, allowing you to grip just about anything as if it were a clamp. Unlike a regular cork, the holder compresses the cork as you put it in place, applying extra force on a pin or tab, making for a much better grip. The holder itself adds extra width and the rim lips enhance your grip and mobility as well.

Now, what if you have miniatures already on the base? No problem, an alternate insert allows you to easily grip the base disk or square without damaging it. Basically it is a recessed version of the regular cork insert, deep enough to insert most bases firmly but gently from the edges. There are several sizes to choose from, accommodating a range of bass diameters – 20-25mm square, 25-32mm round.

What if you have a based miniature that doesn’t have a pin, and is bigger than the insert allows? Again, no problem, a little blue tac will let you put quite large based on the holder. Unlike most ‘normal’ corks from bottles etc, the holder cork and the top are perfectly, perfectly flat, with no wax additives. This means blutac or similar low tac putties grip the cork (and the top of the holder itself) very firmly and reliably, with no sticking issues.

The last item of interest would be the bar. It seems like an odd addition to a holder but makes perfect sense when you think about it. How many of you end up touching your miniatures as you twist them around getting to those hard to reach spots, depositing your finger oils and possibly absent mindedly rubbing off a bit of still damp paint? I have. The bar ensures this does happen, giving you a spot to grip on top near the miniature itself while preventing you from actually touching it. A textured pad serves as both a pressure clamp and an enhanced area to grip near where your index finger will naturally sit while gripping the holder. The bar also very easily swivels around, allowing you to quickly adjust and access any angle or grip without worrying about re-setting the model in the holder. Trust me, may seem like not that big a deal but once you try it you will quickly find yourself using it all the time, a case of not knowing how much you need something until you get it!

Like the cork adapters, the bars come in several flavors, sized for up to 50mm, 70mm and 90mm, each one easily popped on and off whenever you need to.

Function: The Grip model
The Grip model has all the benefits and features of the holder in a larger, full hand handle style. It too is light, ergonomic and versatile featuring the same bars and corks adapters. The Grip model is cleverly designed with a separate foot/holder/dock, allowing you to lift out the handle and not have a cumbersome large foot bumping your hand or table all the time. The streamline Grip is very agile due to this, and you can get quite a few different positions and painting postures with it consequently. All the while you can put it back in the holder/dock with the greatest of ease, giving you a very, very stable stand for your miniature.

Selection: Grip or Holder model?
Depending on your style, you may gravitate to the Grip or the Holder, or, like me, may love both! The Grip felt good to me for larger, heavier models, distributing the weight in my hand and keeping heavier/larger models balanced in my hand comfortably. Heavier/larger miniatures made the Holder model a bit too top heavy for my tastes, but that can be ameliorated a great deal by leveraging the bar for extra stability. Overall though, for 28-32 mm scale up to 54mm, the Holder model felt amazing! I would honestly recommend people get 1 of each ultimately, they are both so good you can’t really go wrong.

Final Thoughts:
I am not a huge name painter like a Ben Komets or a Lappat (nor do I deserve to be!) but I do have a good bit of experience and a few awards and classes given in this field. Over my decades in the hobby I have tried just about everything there is to try product wise and technique wise, and I can unreservedly say that as far as miniature holding devices go, these v3 series products from Stephan Rath are genuinely in a league of their own. On every level, they are distinctly superior to any other comparable product I have ever tried. Are they absolutely vital to painting a mini? No, you don’t NEED a holder… but I’ll be incredibly surprised if you don’t LOVE using one. It’s a pleasure, and while the benefits it affords are not vital, they are most certainly helpful, pleasant and enhancing to your entire experience. If you look at these and they appeal to you based on your experience, then go for it without hesitation!

Thanks to Tom... we at Rathcore and PK-PRO.de were sooo happy about your words.

Until the Campaign goes live ( September 2nd ) we want to suggest to visit our community fan site on facebook
for a lot more pictures, videos, information and updates:

http://www.facebook.com/miniatureholders

or directly on my channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC03...r7Bq9ZUFoREZ9w

Nice greetings, Stephan

That looks very interesting. Especially the one with the metal arm thingie that goes over the model's head allowing me to hold it between thumb and forefinger. I'm guilty of holding models like that quite a lot when painting. I hope these don't end up being too expensive.

I'm very interested in this. I was going to order the current version from Broken Table Hobbies but Google revealed this new one was coming. As long as the cost + shipping isn't too much I'll back it. I tend to rub a bit of paint off the top of minis when painting. That finger support looks perfect.

The kickstarter is live.

Backed for a grip pro but I'll up it to 1 grip and 1 holder once they add that pledge level.

 derwish wrote:

Selection: Grip or Holder model?
Depending on your style, you may gravitate to the Grip or the Holder, or, like me, may love both! The Grip felt good to me for larger, heavier models, distributing the weight in my hand and keeping heavier/larger models balanced in my hand comfortably. Heavier/larger miniatures made the Holder model a bit too top heavy for my tastes, but that can be ameliorated a great deal by leveraging the bar for extra stability. Overall though, for 28-32 mm scale up to 54mm, the Holder model felt amazing! I would honestly recommend people get 1 of each ultimately, they are both so good you can’t really go wrong.

Nice greetings, Stephan

Thank you for the great review. It's very helpful.

I know that you recommend getting both, but the only way to get both is to get the 3x Holders and 1x Grip "all in" combo. Most painters don't need 4 and these are very spendy.
If you had to choose only one which one would you recommend? MaGie recommended the Grip for backers who could only get one. It would be really helpful to know your pick as well.

Currently in on an "All-In" pledge. Would like it if there were adapters for slightly larger base sizes (40mm, mainly), but I read those are coming eventually next year.

Hey guys, sorry couldn't kick in on this earlier was on a trip to Japan all week (and the Volks Akihabra miniature tool heaven store lol) -

So yeah, been a while since I was a regular around these parts but I would like to think I still have a decent rep for knowing my way around a brush - the TLDR version of the review above is these are great, not a fad but a legitimately and functionally useful tool you may well end up using indefinitely. Strong, strong recommend.

 Coralline Algae wrote:

 derwish wrote:

Selection: Grip or Holder model?
Depending on your style, you may gravitate to the Grip or the Holder, or, like me, may love both! The Grip felt good to me for larger, heavier models, distributing the weight in my hand and keeping heavier/larger models balanced in my hand comfortably. Heavier/larger miniatures made the Holder model a bit too top heavy for my tastes, but that can be ameliorated a great deal by leveraging the bar for extra stability. Overall though, for 28-32 mm scale up to 54mm, the Holder model felt amazing! I would honestly recommend people get 1 of each ultimately, they are both so good you can’t really go wrong.

Nice greetings, Stephan

Thank you for the great review. It's very helpful.

I know that you recommend getting both, but the only way to get both is to get the 3x Holders and 1x Grip "all in" combo. Most painters don't need 4 and these are very spendy.
If you had to choose only one which one would you recommend? MaGie recommended the Grip for backers who could only get one. It would be really helpful to know your pick as well.

I would recommend the holder actually, if you get only one. Why? Because it will feel more familiar in your hand and be less intrusive to your normal workflow. The grip is fantastic but inherently more of an adjustment to the way your hands sit while working. This is a very minor difference but worth considering. Personally I think one could get used to either or very easily but if there is only one, then I suppose it should be the one most familiar (but not by much). /


Also, note, unless I am mistaken, you don't have to go 'all-in' to get both, you could pledge twice for the low level of the grip and the holder individually to cut costs and still get both?

This KS looks like it is proving to be a ripping success, I recommend painters of all levels have a look!

Pledged for lvl 2 though I would like to see a bigger holder available for 40-50mm base sizes!

 MajorTom11 wrote:

I would recommend the holder actually, if you get only one. Why? Because it will feel more familiar in your hand and be less intrusive to your normal workflow. The grip is fantastic but inherently more of an adjustment to the way your hands sit while working. This is a very minor difference but worth considering. Personally I think one could get used to either or very easily but if there is only one, then I suppose it should be the one most familiar (but not by much). /


Also, note, unless I am mistaken, you don't have to go 'all-in' to get both, you could pledge twice for the low level of the grip and the holder individually to cut costs and still get both?

This KS looks like it is proving to be a ripping success, I recommend painters of all levels have a look!

Thank you for posting your thoughts. It's impossible to get a feel for these without one in our hands.

I know a few people have asked about backing for 2 pledge levels in the KS comments. That would be a pretty good solution if it's allowed.

They may allow backers to get add-ons for the grips, holders and adapters. etc... through a bakerkit. They put up a poll in update 8 to see if backers would prefer to have a delay in fulfillment and get add-ons, or if they would rather have their basic pledges sent out as quickly as possible with no add-on option.

Yeah definitely, you need to hold one in your hands to get that full level of confidence, that being said, I was very disappointed with at least 5 other similar solutions I have tried over the years, this was the first one that instantly gave the impression of 'oh yeah, that feels right and familiar'.

I have spoken to a few people now expressing similar frustrations as you about the structure of the pledges and the lack of add-on options. I am going to try speaking with Stephan about it, but I get the impression his #1 priority is to deliver what is promised on time, and though he understands people expects KS's to have sparkly unlocks etc, he feels it is better to disappoint them on their add-on expectations now than to disappoint them on actual real promises and purchases later.

That being said, maybe a middle ground could be achieved? We will see! Will update if I hear anything!

In the meantime, I am actually in the mood to go put my preview holders to use! Maybe will post a pic or two -

They've posted on facebook that they're planning to lock down all the existing pledge levels and replace them with new ones with (much) further out delivery dates

so if you plan to back and when you get stuff matters to you better get in there now

I'd also like an option for 50mm bases sizes too!

Well, there is nothing to really stop you from using blu-tac to stick the base to the top of the drip/holder (as I did with mine, I did not receive cork adaptors with my previews, but it still works perfect)... that being said, ideally you want to be painting just the model on this, pinned and gripped, and work on the base separately so that neither blocks brush access to the other, and you don't have to worry about spatter or whatnot right? The models I am working on now were already based, but, on future work, I will be pinning and painting without the bass first.

Some pics of my holders in action, trying to show various different grips and configurations -

I must admit that I find it rather mind-boggling (and somewhat irritating) that there isn't a one-of-each pledge. I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.

Can you not just pledge twice (one of each)?

I could... I just messes with my sense of order.

Plus (I believe) you don't qualify for stretch goals at the individual, lower-level pledges.
I'd be interested in a one-grip, one-holder pledge level too FWIW. At least I think I would be. If I keep looking at the limited-edition white inlayed grip on my current "all-in", I'll convince myself I just have to keep it...

That's a good point I didn't consider -

I have sent him a message on the issue, hopefully he can do something. Seems this KS is successful beyond expectation, he seems to be trying hard to keep everything realistic and transparent for the pledgers

Wow...those look amazing, I signed up and backed this one ( my first KS).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitsplitta wrote:
I must admit that I find it rather mind-boggling (and somewhat irritating) that there isn't a one-of-each pledge. I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.

yeah, I looked around the page for about 15-20 mins looking for that option. I guess ill just have toget one of each...


Edit 1...yeah I can't order 1 grip and one holder.....very odd...oh well backed for a holder, they still look amazing

Glad I put in my "All In" pledge when I first read about this, on the 2nd. Personally, I like the idea of closing out the early pledges. Seen a lot of KS campaigns where massive success has led to completely blowing the delivery dates for everyone who pledged.

For those wanting 'one of each' of the Grip and Holder the simple solution is there:

Back at a pledge level for either a single 'Grip' or a single 'Holder' (levels 17 or 18) and put the other one in as an add-on (both are available singly as add-ons), and indicate your choice in the Backerkit survey that will be sent following the end of the fund raising.

The kickstarter has this morning just passed 2,000 backers and there is still over 3 weeks remaining, so it is understandable that Stephan has indicated he will close the present second shipping wave soon and launch a third shipping wave, indeed if this carries on perhaps even a fourth shipping wave will be required before the end of the kickstarter.

I have seen a lot of comments on the kickstarter asking about ordering extra metal bars, this is something Stephan has indicated many times he does not envisage during this kickstarter, however, just above the 'Risks and Challenges' on the kickstarter homepage there is a video that shows it takes only 15 seconds to remove the bar from one grip or or holder and put it on another grip or holder.

Important update:

Hello friends,

As you know, this is our first KS and some things we couldn`t know before we launched we learned after the first week.

It is now time to correct these things, otherwise we could come in trouble.

1)

We will close the second shipping wave in the next days to save the shipping dates for all backers in the second wave. (The first wave is still save!)

Then we will open a third and last wave. The third wave will be limited from the beginning on!

2)

Some of you have double pledged because we allowed it when we launched. We are really sorry... we have to revise this. We decided that there will be NO option in the backerkit surveys to add complete pledge levels.

So, if you have double pledged, please undo your second pledge and decide for just one pledge. Please reduce your pledge amount accordingly. Maybe painful for some of you but really necessary for us to not get in trouble.

3)

Another painful decision: The add-ons we offer in this KS and on backerkit afterwards, will be limited to just one add-on of each per backer!!!

If you have added more money for more than one of the same add-on please undo!!!


Regiment painters... don`t worry, you can easily use one adapter more than 40 times: so if you have just 5 adapters, you can easily paint 200+ models with these.

Don`t forget: all these products comes to market end 2017, where you can buy additional stuff.


We hope you can understand our decisions. It`s nice to have more and more money BUT in the end we also want to keep a good handling, when it comes to production of your items and packing them.

Thanks soo much so far, you are great,

Jan, Hali and Stephan

Ouch,

I fear you're going to have problems with 2 & 3 with people not noticing the changes and ending up over pledged with no way to use the extra cash

@derwish - This action I think is warranted, by taking this action now you are keeping the kickstarter as much under control as is possible.

@OrlandoTechnicoloured - Whenever there are changes forced onto a situation there will be some instances that need to be dealt with on an individual basis, but it would seem likely that the vas tmajority of backers will get the message in time (still 3 whole weeks to go before the end of the kickstarter anyway).


As it is I am glad that the creator of a kickstarter project is sensible enough to carry out such action.

Hope those who are thinking of backing this kickstarter get in quick now as wve 2 shipping (July) is going to be cut in a couple of days AND the replacement wave 3 with a later shipping date is going to be restricted in number of backers.

I'm really glad I came across this thread, I've had my eye on the kickstarter for a few days (the joys of idle googling whilst working nights over a weekend! ) but reading this thread has made me bite the bullet and make my pledge.

I think I've done everything correctly, I've priced up my pledge level, and added the cost of the add ons I would like (only one of each type that I am choosing) and the cost of postage and pledged that total. So I think I'm in the clear, and I'm getting everything I would have wanted despite the limitations some have found with the various pledge and add on levels.

I have to say the level of support for this is pretty overwhelming, I can see why the guys in charge are freely admitting that they weren't preapred for the level of support and backing that they have recieved, and that they may struggle to deliver the volume of product from what I can assume is a fairly cottage industry style production line. Still, I think it shows great maturity and earns huge respect for them to be able to say up front that they will have to limit the orders and pledges in order to ensure that they can actually complete on their promises. This is definitely the mark of a sensible business head. I'm pretty sure some people would have taken the money, crumbled under the pressure and watched the whole thing fall down around their ears to the tune of thousands of disgruntled wargame hobbyists So well done guys!!

I must say it's amazing the effect that Kickstarter has... I've backed a few things over the last few months and if I look with my rational head, I've happily pledged for stuff that if I saw in a store at the price I've pledged, I'd probably think, "oh, that looks cool... maybe one day." before leaving my wallet safely in my pocket. But on Kickstarter, the part of my brain that falls for overpriced plastic crack goes "Oooh, shiny!" and before I know it I've pledged to get some new fancy thingamabob that I probably don't really need. Here for example, I've pledged somewhere in the £80 to £100 bracket for some painting bits and bobs, for a hobby that while I'm heavily financially invested in, I basically just dabble in from time to time. Now, if I'd walked through a hobby store and seen these painting aids for sale, there is no way I would have parted with that sort of cash, but because it's on Kickstarter, I have happily pledged and will watch the countdown whilst bouncing with gleeful joy like an excited child on a snow day. Three cheers for Kickstarter!!

The only thing I remain unsure about is what size wire grip thingy to get, @MajorTom11, in your pictures where you are painting what I think is a tyranid warrior, what size wire thingy are you using??

Many thanks and best of luck with the rest of the KS campaign!!

It has just been announced that the second wave shipping (July 2017) is going to be cut off when backer numbers equal 2,600 (presently backers = 2,257) so just 343 new backers will get in on the July shipping wave. A third limited shipping wave with a later date of 900 backers will be put up.

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:


The only thing I remain unsure about is what size wire grip thingy to get, @MajorTom11, in your pictures where you are painting what I think is a tyranid warrior, what size wire thingy are you using??

Many thanks and best of luck with the rest of the KS campaign!!

I am not entirely sure what size it was, it was the only bar I got with my pre-release tester, unless I am mistaken it is the smallest size bar though if I had to guess. PS - Genestealer Hybrids

While this is a nice and elegant solution, it's a bit on the pricey side. However, the swiveling rod bit is brilliant. I can see this being almost a no-brainer for a competition level painter.

For an economical miniature holder solution (especially for batch painting!), I like to chop up a closet rod into about 3 to 4 inch lengths and slap a bit of blue/white tac on top to hold my pre-based minis. Gluing a bit of cork to the top would definitely help with miniatures on pins.

Closet rod at Home Depot

White tac

A few images with the holders in action.







I got the idea from the team that runs the Speed Painting competition at KublaCon...

A decent solution, as well as simple corks, green stuff world deluxe large corks, various other holders are all perfectly viable too.

All I can say is if you have a bit of coin to spend, this is a luxury item that actually feels good and makes for a very enjoyable experience. As mentioned in my original review, you don't NEED it, but it sure is nice to have all the same