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I'd mark that as a point in favor of 40k and similar games. You're supposed to be polite and sportsmanlike.

Technically, you're supposed to be in every game, but that doesn't stop them lol...

Depends on how competitive you want to be.
It is a relaxing thing for me and utterly pointless to get worked up in a negative way: it is not the venue for that outlet.

Competition is at it's best with people I don't like.
That is the PERFECT time to get in touch with your no-holds-barred inner jerk. It is your duty as a (normally) nice person to lay a smack-down on those who truly need it to grow as people.

I have a big grin on my face as I typed that. I have a big red button with bullies, I like getting in the way of those that people usually avoid. I think that is when I would be "that guy" but it only happens with the most confrontational types.

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Well, supposedly that's what led to this. xD

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

 feeder wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

It's all opinions. I'd rather play a game and both players have a good time (As much as they can, without us making each other miserable) than go into a game and make someone feel like gak by the end of it. Tournament or otherwise. You call it 'skill', I call it unnecessary and douchebaggery (When used outside of playful banter)

Like I said, I don't get enjoyment out of making my opponent mad or upset.

True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

I seriously hate rage-quitters. Luck is a fickle thing. Sometimes you have it, other times it pees in your water glass.

I was playing a campaign at the local gaming store back in late 3rd edition. Every game you played got you an advantage in all remaining games. Winning or loosing simply determined how good that advantage was.

My opponent in the first game rolled for our mission, and selected the mission that screwed me the most, while making his job super easy. Ever try moving 40 footslogging Necron warriors 36 to 48 inches in 6 turns? On his first turn he moves up, and either misses or fails to penetrate my Monolith with 3 Broadsides (old-school rules, so strength 10) and his Hammerhead. Oh my turn 1 I tear him apart, but it doesn't matter if I can't make it off the board and he'll win.

He still rage quit then and there, and didn't return for 3 weeks. He showed up for the final 2 weeks of the campaign only to complain that he had no bonuses because he hadn't played any previous games.

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

To be honest. I'm pretty bad when it comes to smack talk anyway. In the end, I often end up smack talking myself over anything due to my rather crap-tastic rolling abilities :p Though it's been a while since I played (Still haven't finished building my Skitarri/Cult Mech army yet, and used to play Orks, so I suppose crap rolling wasn't hard to achieve :p)

 Byte wrote:
Poor sportmanship ruins casual games as well. There is always TFG that has to win no matter the senenio. Poor gamesman that should take up shooting fish in a barrel.

Oh yes, I agree and painfully know it: Like 3 years ago I started into the hobby, bought DV and a box of chaos marines. Didn't convert anything to the other army as I wanted to play both of them. I went to a GW store and said I wanted to play, and that it was my very first game and wanted to have a fun time. A fellow heard us and offered to play... cue in my black legion army, very your dudes (chosen, hellbrutes, quite a few upgrades fo CQC), facing an unbound list where he brought the sniper formation, the veteran formation (basically sternguard out of the ass) and tigurius with a unit of invisible grav-centurions. I kille a single model before being wiped out. He then went on to say smuggly that he had barely won (very sarcastically) and "mixed" our tape measures (since mine was brand new and SOMEHOW it was utterly battered, the tape was crooked, had blue and gold paint in some small spots... just add) but vehemently denied it afterwards.
Oh and that time where a guard player (same GW store, never going back there) whom had started doing daemonology spam (he said: it's to cover my army's weakness, and it can bone me... yeah, get fething allies then) first dropped his summoned bloodletters with a smug face and declared he'd charge my squad. I proceeded to open him the rulebook and explain him why he couldn't: he inmediately condeded and made a face that was hilarious.

I have enough problems gaming with smeg heads in my own home!!!!!!
It does not help that GW creates moron gamers because of its model ranges. Think about it..mega powerful tanks/knights and awful Tau stuff. These models either sit there and fire powerful guns or steam up the board and cant be hurt. You all buy this stuff so your oponants will have to to!!!!!!
I play with lots of average stuff like Kroot (remember those, probably not) and a made up stuff like Beastmen for my Chaos warband which is useless.....ie i game like it was 2001.
Man up and deal with it or take up Angry birds.

I know saw a game once at a tournament where a SM player infiltrated 2 units of devs (warlord trait) onto a nice bit of cover out of line of sight but lost the first turn, opposing player moved his interceptors (12" move) up to them and preceded to charge - other player says you cant charge on first turn, was proved wrong and asked to start the game again (this was about 1 hour in as the player wrong was very picky with his deployment and took 20 mins deploying a pred) when the other guy refused he packed up and walked off - never to be seen again.

 feeder wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

Or its just acting like a rude person.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 feeder wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
Playing devil's advocate here, I wonder why trash talking is so frowned upon in 40k tournaments. It's actually a valid tactic to use against your opponent to get under their skin and lose concentration in other sports and games. Even golf supposedly has its fair share despite being a gentlemen's sport.

To be honest, I feel 'trash talking' with the pure intent of getting your opponent frustrated shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities, so you're stooping as low as to sabotage instead of just lose (or win) gracefully. I mean, there's playful trash talk banter, but to go into a game with the intent to get your opponent legitimately upset/angry is incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Edit: This is for ANY game. Not just 40k. Like I said, playful banter is fine. But the if the intent is to affect your opponent's abilities in some degree, that's where it crosses the line, imo.

Trash talk is a skill in itself. Do it well, you get under your opponent's skin and get him off his game. Do it poorly, you can push him to greater feats.

Trash talk is just another skill in a well-rounded skillset.

Or its just acting like a rude person.

Quite spot on. I'm fine with banter but honestly if you need someone to lose focus and not do his best then that means you acknlowledge you have no hope to truly beat him and thus you're inferior to him.
Also it makes look you like a jerk.

If trash talk is part of a well rounded skillset, does that mean that offending the other player so much that they pack up and leave is also a viable tactic? Maximum points for a concession, after all.

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

This is a poor assumption. Within the GT crowds, you see (and play) the same core group of people throughout the year. Don't get the reputation of being "that guy."

I met some great players at the few tournaments I've attended, and a few donkey-caves. Among the great players, none were trash talkers. They were laid back, smart players that I'd gladly play again. The few trash talkers and That Guy I've met, I'd never play again if i met them in a store.

The gaming community is pretty tight knit. As PanserLeader said, don't make a bad reputation for yourself.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

This is a poor assumption. Within the GT crowds, you see (and play) the same core group of people throughout the year. Don't get the reputation of being "that guy."

Rubbish - its a valid skill in a well rounded skillset. Sledge the opponent and put 'em off - good enough for Wellington!

 axisofentropy wrote:
How did his quitting deny you points? Shouldn't you have gotten max points for a concession?

Depends on the tournament rules. Some tournaments just count forfeiting or tabling your opponent as just the game having ended (like you finished the final turn) so you would still score based of the game state when it ended.

Wow, I don't know what I'd do if someone packed up on me. If they were being rude, maybe just let them... but I'd be feeling crappy and insulted.
I have coaxed salty players to finish their games and just chat with me before, in other systems.
"Nah come on, it's all good practice for playing other people, I'm not going to blast you for it."

Smack talk is not a big thing in the scene I'm in. I'd personally just ask folk to calm down a little if they started. I've travelled a long way and came to play some fun games in a short period, it's because I want to enjoy that time together, not have someone try and irritate me for 90mins.

After winning a good number of 40k local tournaments in the last few years, i've decided to try stepping up to more competitive events in 2017. With that in mind, i've thought a lot about how I would love to earn a reputation like that of Alex Fennel. Talk about a high water-mark we should aspire to being.

Competitively Alex is considered ultra competitive, and often advances the meta of 40k locally and elsewhere, ALL while being known as one of the most pleasant, respectful, and generally kind people you're likely to play 40k against.

I'd always rather emulate that than be a top-tier trash talker who maybe psyches out opponents, but has to live with being a gak-lord while doing so.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Wow, I don't know what I'd do if someone packed up on me. If they were being rude, maybe just let them... but I'd be feeling crappy and insulted.
I have coaxed salty players to finish their games and just chat with me before, in other systems.
"Nah come on, it's all good practice for playing other people, I'm not going to blast you for it."

Smack talk is not a big thing in the scene I'm in. I'd personally just ask folk to calm down a little if they started. I've travelled a long way and came to play some fun games in a short period, it's because I want to enjoy that time together, not have someone try and irritate me for 90mins.

Agreed. Trash talking with the intent of getting someone worked up is just a person being toxic. That's not good for your image, the community, or the target of the toxicity.

That said, I throw jibes at my friends, and I talk trash about my own models performance sometimes. I talk gak for both sides of the table, for entertainment. If I let a little slip against an opponent I don't know too well and they act like it's not appreciated, I apologize.

BossJakadakk wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Wow, I don't know what I'd do if someone packed up on me. If they were being rude, maybe just let them... but I'd be feeling crappy and insulted.
I have coaxed salty players to finish their games and just chat with me before, in other systems.
"Nah come on, it's all good practice for playing other people, I'm not going to blast you for it."

Smack talk is not a big thing in the scene I'm in. I'd personally just ask folk to calm down a little if they started. I've travelled a long way and came to play some fun games in a short period, it's because I want to enjoy that time together, not have someone try and irritate me for 90mins.

Agreed. Trash talking with the intent of getting someone worked up is just a person being toxic. That's not good for your image, the community, or the target of the toxicity.

That said, I throw jibes at my friends, and I talk trash about my own models performance sometimes. I talk gak for both sides of the table, for entertainment. If I let a little slip against an opponent I don't know too well and they act like it's not appreciated, I apologize.

This is my approach. I love talking trash with my friends, but against a new person, I try to be polite, respectful, and fair.

I'll trash talk with a good friend, but against a stranger? That's just tacky. It's dudebro behavior at its worst.

Handling forfeits should always be a case by case basis. I've seen people throw a game early to deny their opponent a higher score, and I've seen people get matched up with a friend so the player with the lower tournament score forfeits to give his opponent max points. Both methods can be exploited. That's why TOs should judge each forfeit individually.

Funny how even to forfeit a game can be used to "game" the system. Competitive play at it's finest (or is that worst??).

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

This is a poor assumption. Within the GT crowds, you see (and play) the same core group of people throughout the year. Don't get the reputation of being "that guy."

Rubbish - its a valid skill in a well rounded skillset. Sledge the opponent and put 'em off - good enough for Wellington!

Even if one were to take that point as conceded, which it isn't, a culture of trash talking would lead to very ugly places. Where would it stop? Would we start throwing around ethnic slurs and sexual innuendos to throw off opposition? Purposely adopt mannerisms as offputting and disgusting to as many people as possible for a psychological edge? The possibilities for a-hole behavior in the name of "putting people off" are endless, and not great to contemplate, especially if we want tournaments to serve any kind of recruitment or community building purpose. Would a young player being told "hey kid, [perform vigorous fellatio on me]" in the name of psychological warfare want to attend another event?

No, this is not a path we should hurry down. Few hobbies do, even Call of Duty players tend to not go for it as much when they're on stream.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 NInjatactiks wrote:
True. 40k is often played amongst good friends and buddies, but if you're going to a tournament in which you probably won't see them ever again, it's pretty tempting to grief. That said, I wonder what kind of insults you could throw? xD

This is a poor assumption. Within the GT crowds, you see (and play) the same core group of people throughout the year. Don't get the reputation of being "that guy."

Rubbish - its a valid skill in a well rounded skillset. Sledge the opponent and put 'em off - good enough for Wellington!

Even if one were to take that point as conceded, which it isn't, a culture of trash talking would lead to very ugly places. Where would it stop? Would we start throwing around ethnic slurs and sexual innuendos to throw off opposition? Purposely adopt mannerisms as offputting and disgusting to as many people as possible for a psychological edge? The possibilities for a-hole behavior in the name of "putting people off" are endless, and not great to contemplate, especially if we want tournaments to serve any kind of recruitment or community building purpose. Would a young player being told "hey kid, [perform vigorous fellatio on me]" in the name of psychological warfare want to attend another event?

No, this is not a path we should hurry down. Few hobbies do, even Call of Duty players tend to not go for it as much when they're on stream.

Do you know she's being sarcastic, don't you?

No, I don't *know* that for a fact, so why should I assume so?

Lord Kragan wrote:
Do you know she's being sarcastic, don't you?

Or trolling considering sarcasm is generally not stuck to with such a dogged perseverance if it is not otherwise clearly indicated as sarcasm.