Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
But seriously I am tired of being looked at like a beer bellied wife beater simply because I am pro 2nd amendment.
I can honestly say I've never seen anyone characterize 2nd Amendment advocates that way... Ever. And I have a news feed with nearly two dozen news sites on it.
I've seen what redleger is talking about, and am sometimes guilty of it myself. In my defense, my redneck family is as pro-gun as they are pro-life and anti-foreigners.
That meme hits really close to home, LordofHats.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/29 18:27:37
For those across the pond... is that how you view 'Murricans?
I sincerely hope not, as I've spent my many years overseas doing the best i can to present a positive image of American's. I'd hate to see horrible media misrepresentation of us be how they look at us.
redleger wrote: as to the thread which started this, the title of the thread is what I was referring to. He wasn't shot at a traffic stop while trying to sign.
I was unaware thread titles on an off topic board of a toy soldier forum constituted news media... This changes everything...
Now I am not trying to start a debate on ferguson,
Then you really shouldn't bring it up, because some topics are just going to spawn debate.
The riots and social frenzy can in part be blamed on the reporting that took place.
The riots and the social frenzy in a locality that would have heard about the incident whether the news media reported it or not are based on news media? Surely you realize how absurd that sounds. Setting aside the immediate issue of Michael Brown, the city of Ferguson had a problem and its the kind of problem that inevitably leads to rioting and unrest, especially in the US which has a long history of riots over race inequality. Brown was the immediate spark, but not the underlying cause. Reporting on his death was never going to spark the kind of response we saw in Ferguson, which had escalated to rioting overnight and grew worse from there. That takes serious problems. We haven't had rioting like that in quite sometime, and its not like the world had been devoid of news reporting on bad stuff that happened since. The riots in Ferguson were about something much deeper than Michael Brown.
News reporting on it did what news reporting does. It talked to people, reported what they said, and went from there. Some sources came on the side of questioning the use of police uses of force, some came on the side of defending it, some portrayed the whole thing as "innocent black kid is murdered by cop" and some called that sensationalist nonsense. It's nothing more than a reflection of we ourselves, because its the exact same stuff going through all our heads.
So no I can't say the media is not responsible for the decline of western civilization, but they are a contributing factor.
Speaking of sensationalism.
You do know the following terms...eh?
-Fly Over Country
-Bitter Clingers
-Bible Thumbers
-Red Neck 'Murricans? (okay... that's a badge of honor)
Yes, but I've almost never seen them used by anyone but the people who proclaim to take offense at them, and people who routinely make fools of themselves in their use here on the board. Bible Thumpers is probably the one I see most frequently invoked, and it's usually in quote rather than a body of text originating from the news source.
Tell me about it XD I love the bait and switch, but the small sliver of truth is what makes it really funny. I grew up on base, but I went to public school in North Carolina, and there really are people like that in the world. It's an odd mix of bizarre, disappointing, funny, and hopeful, all rolled into one XD EDIT: Not to mention a great lesson on how varied people's thoughts on subjects can really be.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/08/29 19:01:51
redleger wrote: as to the thread which started this, the title of the thread is what I was referring to. He wasn't shot at a traffic stop while trying to sign.
I was unaware thread titles on an off topic board of a toy soldier forum constituted news media... This changes everything...
Now I am not trying to start a debate on ferguson,
Then you really shouldn't bring it up, because some topics are just going to spawn debate.
The riots and social frenzy can in part be blamed on the reporting that took place.
The riots and the social frenzy in a locality that would have heard about the incident whether the news media reported it or not are based on news media? Surely you realize how absurd that sounds. Setting aside the immediate issue of Michael Brown, the city of Ferguson had a problem and its the kind of problem that inevitably leads to rioting and unrest, especially in the US which has a long history of riots over race inequality. Brown was the immediate spark, but not the underlying cause. Reporting on his death was never going to spark the kind of response we saw in Ferguson, which had escalated to rioting overnight and grew worse from there. That takes serious problems. We haven't had rioting like that in quite sometime, and its not like the world had been devoid of news reporting on bad stuff that happened since. The riots in Ferguson were about something much deeper than Michael Brown.
News reporting on it did what news reporting does. It talked to people, reported what they said, and went from there. Some sources came on the side of questioning the use of police uses of force, some came on the side of defending it, some portrayed the whole thing as "innocent black kid is murdered by cop" and some called that sensationalist nonsense. It's nothing more than a reflection of we ourselves, because its the exact same stuff going through all our heads.
So no I can't say the media is not responsible for the decline of western civilization, but they are a contributing factor.
Speaking of sensationalism.
You do know the following terms...eh? -Fly Over Country -Bitter Clingers -Bible Thumbers -Red Neck 'Murricans? (okay... that's a badge of honor)
Yes, but I've almost never seen them used by anyone but the people who proclaim to take offense at them, and people who routinely make fools of themselves in their use here on the board. Bible Thumpers is probably the one I see most frequently invoked, and it's usually in quote rather than a body of text originating from the news source.
Tell me about it XD I love the bait and switch, but the small sliver of truth is what makes it really funny. I grew up on base, but I went to public school in North Carolina, and there really are people like that in the world. It's an odd mix of bizarre, disappointing, funny, and hopeful, all rolled into one XD
the purpose of this thread is news media misreporting. I think you yourself confirmed they definately misreported stuff, which is all that I am talking about. I know little of the social issues in most towns, because I live in a small little eco system (for another 6 months) where we by and large take care of each other. However I do not dispute the issue of the town, but thats not what Im talking about. To dispute the media was not reckless however may be a bit off.
As for the title suggestion, no Dakka is obviously not news, but if you read through the facts as they have developed, and then look at the title, it proves my point.
Thanks to gov computer I can't see the meme. Can I get a spoiler tag paste?
And notice no one wants to admit that maybe the media portrayal for persons from the south with the accent has led to a possible stereotype.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/29 19:03:03
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
redleger wrote: I think you yourself confirmed they definately misreported stuff, which is all that I am talking about.
Yeah, but the difference is that I equate misreporting as a natural product of the way humans absorb, present, and organize information, while you seem to see it as a malicious result of mongering. There's a difference.
As for the title suggestion, no Dakka is obviously not news, but if you read through the facts as they have developed, and then look at the title, it proves my point.
No it doesn't.
Can I get a spoiler tag paste?
Spoiler:
A solid Dakka safe example;
It's a bait and switch joke juxtaposing political correctness and the redneck stereotype.
And notice no one wants to admit that maybe the media portrayal for persons from the south with the accent has led to a possible stereotype.
Oh there's nothing possible about it. The Southern Stereotype is easily the most clear and apparent stereotype in the US. People (at least in the US), widely recognize the stereotype, and its innate absurdity. It's why King of the Hill was so funny
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/29 19:28:29
Sensationalist and/or misleading news reporting is nothing new. Didn't Hearst say something like "you provide the pictures, I'll provide the story"?
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
redleger wrote: I think you yourself confirmed they definately misreported stuff, which is all that I am talking about.
Yeah, but the difference is that I equate misreporting as a natural product of the way humans absorb, present, and organize information, while you seem to see it as a malicious result of mongering. There's a difference.
As for the title suggestion, no Dakka is obviously not news, but if you read through the facts as they have developed, and then look at the title, it proves my point.
No it doesn't.
Can I get a spoiler tag paste?
Spoiler:
A solid Dakka safe example;
It's a bait and switch joke juxtaposing political correctness and the redneck stereotype.
And notice no one wants to admit that maybe the media portrayal for persons from the south with the accent has led to a possible stereotype.
Oh there's nothing possible about it. The Southern Stereotype is easily the most clear and apparent stereotype in the US. People (at least in the US), widely recognize the stereotype, and its innate absurdity. It's why King of the Hill was so funny
Thanks for the spoiler. I did find that very amusing.
As for the thread title, so you are saying that title accurately represents what happened? Are you saying a person evading the police is the same thing as a traffic stop, and that jumping out of the vehicle after the rubber falls off the rim is the same as trying to signal a LEO or are you saying it doesn't prove your point that media is not being malicious.
I for one don't necesarily think it is malicious, nor and I assurting that. I am saying it lacks empathy. Its like a narcissist. It will say whatever it wants, do what ever it wants with out regard to how it affects other people. As long as the good feelings (cash money) keep rolling in. So malicious, nah, careless and reckless yes.
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
redleger wrote: As for the thread title, so you are saying that title accurately represents what happened?
I'm saying an example of a misleading thread title on a toy soldier forum isn't evidence that the media is misreporting.
Are you saying a person evading the police is the same thing as a traffic stop
Technically yes. The officer tried to initiate a traffic stop, so I can see why the thread title is worded that way. It's not misleading so much as it is vague, and people will always fill in blanks in anything vague which is why we should all strive to keep thread titles concise and too the point
If you argument was "the Dakka Dakka OT board has misleading thread titles in it" you might have a point, but as far as I can tell that isn't your argument.
redleger wrote: As for the thread title, so you are saying that title accurately represents what happened?
I'm saying an example of a misleading thread title on a toy soldier forum isn't evidence that the media is misreporting.
Are you saying a person evading the police is the same thing as a traffic stop
Technically yes. The officer tried to initiate a traffic stop, so I can see why the thread title is worded that way. It's not misleading so much as it is vague, and people will always fill in blanks in anything vague which is why we should all strive to keep thread titles concise and too the point
If you argument was "the Dakka Dakka OT board has misleading thread titles in it" you might have a point, but as far as I can tell that isn't your argument.
I am saying it lacks empathy.
I guess the distinction is fair enough.
Yea point definitely is not about dakka thread titles per se, more just an example of how a thread title, or article title can be used to create and assumption before even reading the article. I don't hold dakka posters to any standard, nor could they be. It was just an example, that happened to be staring me in the face, and its not uncommon in written and televised media.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is an example of what appears to be a loaded statement, playing off of current situations.
Now watch the video, and although it doesn't get every angle it shows both people involved not following instructions, and she does attempt to interfere. But my question is, what is the first though when you see the title? Its not a misrepresentation exactly, but doesn't paint a picture. Its click bait.
I would title this, Mother tries to interfere with arrest of son, gets pepper sprayed. That kind of hits home, but may not get you to click on the story.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/29 20:13:39
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
Even "Mother tries to interfere with arrest of son, gets pepper sprayed" is far from unbiased, making it sound like someone getting just desserts for doing something they have no business doing, many will read that as karmic justice. We see such things all the time.
There is no single good way to title subject matter that is going to interest people. Most any title will reflect some sort of bias, or can be interpreted to have a bias, which happens just as often.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
redleger wrote: Yea point definitely is not about dakka thread titles per se, more just an example of how a thread title, or article title can be used to create and assumption before even reading the article.
And my point is that your evidence doesn't remotely support your conclusion. Even you seem to recognize it;
Its... a video of police pepper spraying an 84 year old woman? That's nothing loaded about that statement. It's actually the most straightforward and factual summation of what occurs in the video.
It is very bizarre that the police would find it necessary to pepper spray the elderly. She doesn't seem armed, and while clearly belligerent and not following instructions, is pepper spraying an 84 year old woman actually necessary? I mean Jesus man, you just watched a cop pepper spray someone's grandma for stepping in front of him! What about that is okay, and why would you take "loaded statement damn media is misrepresenting again" out of that report?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/29 20:21:17
djones520 wrote: How do we get back to "journalistic integrity"?
One can point the finger at news organizations, but we help drive another nail into the coffin of journalistic integrity every time we go to social media or some blogger in order to get breaking news.
There was a time when we had to go to news organizations to get news, and so even though they were businesses that strove to get the story first, they also had some time to do things like check facts and verify stories (AKA insure product quality). Their new competition doesn't need to bother with such pesky details, and so to compete news organizations have rid themselves of any such ballast.
The media is changing, but not in the ways people keep going on about. It's no less honest, no more sensationalist than its ever been.
The real change in the media brought about by the internet is in the decline of single media services for a region. City based papers are in serious decline. Instead what we're moving towards are on-line news services based around strong brands. In some cases these are old papers that have a brand that transcends their old geographies, like The Daily Mail or The New York Times. In addition to this we're getting new media, Huffington Post or Breitbart.
There is an issue that many of these media brands are built around a political leaning, and that is problematic. It has possibly created echo chambers to some extent - people want X biased media and they are now able to find a media source that gives them that particular bias. Previously because of the geographic limitations you had just one or two papers catering to a whole region - this meant they included stuff from all over the spectrum. Individual pieces might not have been just as biased as modern stuff, but readers were more likely to be exposed to stuff that had a different view.
However, while this is a problem I don't think it's anywhere near the problem that's being created by social media. Even the worst of the modern on-line media (like HuffPo and Breitbart) are nowhere near as bad as the schlock that gets fed to people on their facebook feed. While they may select stories to suit the site's political bias, there is at least some respect for reality on those sites. However, facebook schlock shared from idiot to idiot has no such respect. Nor is there any greater respect for reality on most political forums - these are the real echo chambers.
If I think about the people I know in real life who are just walking, talking fountains of political bs, none of them spend time reading the news on-line. But they all spend a lot of time on facebook and in political forums.
whembly wrote: For those across the pond... is that how you view 'Murricans?
Nope. I've never met an American even close to that stereotype.
To the extent that I have any kind of expectation of an American, it will be that they'll be polite (I've never heard anyone say sir or ma'am except an American) and almost suspiciously friendly. And I expect that instead of saying they're American, they'll tell me what particular state they're from.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Another example of horrible reporting for the sake of headlines (your British press is on a role guys).
The 12-year-old girl who shoots majestic wild animals for fun vows NEVER to stop
using words to stir up emotions.
But the 12-year-old, who has a string of kills to her name, defiantly vowed never to give up shooting wild beasts and churned out the disputed claim that blood sport like this is a conservation measure that stops the decline in big game numbers.
Since when are hard facts disputable?
In one sick picture she can be seen holding the giraffe’s heart.
Again, using words to stir up emotions. When field dressing the animal, you have to remove the heart. Standard hunting practice, nothing sick about it.
Her boasts about killing defenceless creatures have led to a storm of criticism from around the world, with some branding her a “murderer”, “evil” and “disgusting”.
These are animals that live on the African plains. There is nothing defenseless about any of them. Keep using those emotional buzzwords though.
Eventually they get to the point where facts come into play, but the way they word them is to draw doubt on it.
Aryanna claimed the giraffe she killed in South Africa was an old bull and a “danger” to the rest of the herd and killing it will free up resources for other animals, ensuring “the species survives”.
The schoolgirl even claimed the kill, which is legal, would provide meat for orphanages and villages in the area.
Every bit of this info is true, but they still gotta call it into question, cause this would start to cast a positive light on hunters.
Yeah, but the difference is that I equate misreporting as a natural product of the way humans absorb, present, and organize information, while you seem to see it as a malicious result of mongering. There's a difference.
All that said, I think there is something in this era of rampant click-bait (yeah, I know it's been a thing since the invention of the press, we just seem to be doing volumes more of it... quantity over quality if you will) that there are some people/places who definitely do both.
I think we could all, if we cared to, pull up two similar articles from two similar news outlets and see "misreporting" that can be chalked up to political biases or because "that other guy is reporting this, so we have to spin it the opposite stuff." (ie, MSNBC/CNN/etc. vs. Fox "News")
The British press is terrible. There is rarely even an attempt to be impartial and most of it will go out of its way to squeeze every last drop of sensationalism from perfectly innocent events.
Another example of horrible reporting for the sake of headlines (your British press is on a role guys).
The 12-year-old girl who shoots majestic wild animals for fun vows NEVER to stop
using words to stir up emotions.
Are saying that large African animals like giraffes or elephants are not majestic? Remember this is from a culture that has been raised on slo-mo shots of these animals, narrated by Sir Richard Attenborough
But the 12-year-old, who has a string of kills to her name, defiantly vowed never to give up shooting wild beasts and churned out the disputed claim that blood sport like this is a conservation measure that stops the decline in big game numbers.
Since when are hard facts disputable?
Anything can be disputed, all it requires is a body to claim the opposite. I can say the 4.5 billion year old age of the earth is disputed, and I wouldn't be wrong.
In one sick picture she can be seen holding the giraffe’s heart.
Again, using words to stir up emotions. When field dressing the animal, you have to remove the heart. Standard hunting practice, nothing sick about it.
"Sick" is subjective. It's not a stretch to describe the pictures of bloody entrails as "sick". There's a whole genre of film out there known as "torture porn" that does exactly this.
Her boasts about killing defenceless creatures have led to a storm of criticism from around the world, with some branding her a “murderer”, “evil” and “disgusting”.
These are animals that live on the African plains. There is nothing defenseless about any of them. Keep using those emotional buzzwords though.
In the context of apex predator with a hunting rifle vs wild herbivore, "defenceless" is a perfectly valid descriptor.
Aryanna claimed the giraffe she killed in South Africa was an old bull and a “danger” to the rest of the herd and killing it will free up resources for other animals, ensuring “the species survives”.
Really? It's impressive that giraffes managed to last so long as a species, what with the lack of little girls coming in to kill them for their own good before now.
The schoolgirl even claimed the kill, which is legal, would provide meat for orphanages and villages in the area.
Presumably, if there are prey animals in the area, these locals could hunt and eat them themselves.
Every bit of this info is true, but they still gotta call it into question, cause this would start to cast a positive light on hunters.
It's a fact that killing for fun is a hallmark of the psychopath.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
And notice no one wants to admit that maybe the media portrayal for persons from the south with the accent has led to a possible stereotype.
Oh there's nothing possible about it. The Southern Stereotype is easily the most clear and apparent stereotype in the US. People (at least in the US), widely recognize the stereotype, and its innate absurdity. It's why King of the Hill was so funny
And when Hollywood has a fake Southern Accent, I'm on it like an English person on Robin William's accent in Mrs. Doubtfire. It completely takes me out of the movie. Southern accents on kids are the worst. Just get a damn kid from the south!
I like how this thread assumes people want to hear the truth instead of what they want to hear. There is very good business in telling people what they want to hear. People like to hear interesting, salacious, and emotion stirring things. Even better if it somehow matches something that actually happened (but not necessary). Infotainment is a thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/30 20:05:55
Not sure if it's been brought up but not only does the media seem to misreport it seems to try to 'start fires' and instigate problems and make them worse. It does this because it's news and big news sells. Basically they start issues out of nothing or something much smaller. It's a shame that some of the worst offenses i've seen of certain groups comes from media and news rather than the people in those groups themselves.
For those across the pond... is that how you view 'Murricans?
To me it always seemed like the press back home had three American stereotypes to fall back on;
- the hard nosed, cynical, fast paced New Yorker
- the hippy dippy, vegan, fitness obsessed, liberal Californian
- the redneck, beer swilling, gun totin', conservative Texan
Another story, under the non sequitur headline “TB spiked 500 percent in Twin Falls during 2012, as Chobani Yogurt Opened Plant,” insinuates that the company is somehow responsible for a tuberculosis epidemic in the Idaho hamlet. Never mind that the increase in TB cases exclusively ascribed to Twin Falls actually occurred across an eight-county public health district; there exists no evidence that any of the TB cases in Twin Falls were Chobani employees, or even refugees, for that matter. Furthermore, the “500 percent” “spike” consists of an increase from one case in 2011 to six in 2012, back down to a single case last year.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Funny this thread just after I was reading about the Poll tax riots of 89, where one TV station rearranged the order of the facts to suit their tastes, showing demonstrators attacking police lines and then getting charged by horse mounted police when in reality it had been the other way around.
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."