The DakkaDakka Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread

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**Strg Alt**

A couple of weeks ago I bought the Royal Rumble DVD. It was interesting how the apparel of the wrestlers changed with time:

The earliest Royal Rumble events showed multiple colorful COSTUMES worn by the wrestlers.
However the last matches on the DVD lacked "colour" as a lot of wrestler wore just black wrestling gear.

What does a wrestler need to be successful? According to Cornette there are three categories:

1. Most important
Looks
An imposing physique and a good costume help. Famous examples would be Hulk Hogan & Ultimate Warrior. Having such specimens on a poster will draw people to the event.

2. Important
Promo
A wrestler can create interest in an upcoming match by delivering good promos but if he should "duck" at them, WWF will give him a manager as a mouthpiece. Famous example would be Yokozuna with Mr. Fuji.

3. Least important
Skill
This category encompasses technical wrestling. A very skilled wrestler would be for example Mr. Perfect.

**Sigur**

A-yup. Few days ago I watched a match between Ricochet and Pentagon Jr. in Lucha Underground. Wow. Never been a huge fan of Ricochet (because Will Ospreay is around), but he can definately do more than he does now. The memorable thing I remember of Ricochet's main roster career is when the slipped during his entrance (right after the flippy thing against the ropes). That's saying something.

**Dysartes**

With all due respect to ol' Corny, Strg, he doesn't seem to appreciate that wrestling has moved on since his prime in the late 80's or early 90's.

Even if you agree with how Corny is ranking those points - and I don't - there are a number of others which affect whether or not you'll make it as a "Superstar". For a simple one, how your promotion books you is a big factor - I think we can agree that Mojo Rawley has the sort of look Vince no doubt drools over, but because he is booked poorly, nobody would buy him as a main event talent.

For the last decade or so, social media savvy is also a big factor, especially if you factor in how easily clips of your work can be made into GIFs. For a recent example of the latter, look at Keith Lee - last I checked, GIFs of him rising up behind Finn Balor, or pouncing Adam Cole so far into the crowd he disappears out of frame are still popular, and help him bring recognition.

Of course, and especially in the case of WWE, if you get yourself over when they don't think you should be over, that can have negative consequences. Look at Zack Ryder for one example of that, or all of Rusev Day for another. Trying to grab the brass ring when the company doesn't want you to just means you're going to take a kicking.

Ricochet is undoubtedly being held back by WWE in regard to the moves he is and isn't allowed to do, Sigur - which is a shame, as he seemed a decent guy the one time I saw him at an indy event (RIP Defiant Wrestling), so I'd like him to succeed.

Take the NXT moment between him and the Dream where Ricochet flipped out of the ring, landed on his feet like it was nothing, and casually told the Dream to show him what he could do - the athleticism, combined with Dream's reaction, told you all you needed to know. I doubt he'd be allowed to do something like that on RAW or SD.

**Sigur**

Oh right, you saw him live. You Brits get it all.

I watched a WWE house show last fall after my sister said she'd want to go. Well, that was underwhelming for all parts involved.

Poor wrestlers. It was on a Monday, people sitting on their hands, the whole situation being kinda awkward. The Walter-pop was kinda good, as was Caesaro being over like rover. The Revival did the Young Bucks pose during a match which made me feel smarky.

Overall though I'd suggest people to go to local indy shows rather than WWE shows.

As for Ricochet in specific - I think that some of the really established flippy wrestlers just don't mesh with the WWE style of wrestling. I used to be a HUGE fan of Kushida in NJPW. He can do anything, plus he had a geat theme.

Haven't seen him in NXT yet. I wonder if he does well.

**Dysartes**

Yeah, over two Defiant shows I've seen and/or talked to WALTER, Zack Sabre Jr, Will Ospreay, Bea Priestly, War Machine (before they got WWE'd) and Ricochet - not to mention several that I'm less happy to name post-#speakingout.

Still haven't made it to a WWE show, though that's more due to my lack of organisation/awareness than because I don't want to attend one.

I'm not entirely sure that NXT know what they want to do with Kushida - he has some pretty decent matches, but they've yet to put any gold on him. I believe he was in a triple threat match last week, but it could've been the week before.

**A Town Called Malus**

You probably want to add Ospreay onto that list of people you don't want to mention considering he made the IWL stop booking Polyanna after she claimed that one of Ospreays friends (Scott Wainright) sexually assaulted her.

**Sigur**

Aw, pre-WWE War Machine. Faint memories of two huge guys flying around, sporting Ork-y gear.

Seems like Renée Young left WWE. Shame. But I guess she can do anything. She seems a super lady.

**Dysartes**

Anyone else seen the preview pictures of the WWE Thunderdome, and wonder why the wrestlers seem to be set up for a big game of Guess Who?

**Sigur**

I've seen it now.

It looked darned impressive. And it's hard to tell if it's all real or not. Weird times. The thing with the audience via webcams looks cool in pictures, but I think it won't quite work. It's like when you sit with friends and see something funny you laugh. If you sit at home in front of your computer and you see something funny you don't move a muscle, and think "ha.".

I have to admit that I'm starting to think that there seems to be a bit of an overreliance on the Fiend, at least in Smackdown. Or they just had him in the front and end of Smackdown to show off their stage show in the beginning.

Also: poor, poor Retribution. Do you think WWE actually has plans for them? The bit that The Miz came out late and in a dark suit ( :O ) COULD mean something interesting, but still... poor Retribution.

Throughout the week a German TV channel ran the last few Summermlams and I caught AJ Styles vs. John Cena at Summerslam 2016. Great match. Really, really enjoyed it.

**Dysartes**

I think the Fiend/Vince segment was primarily to show how entrances could look in that set-up, with a side bonus of setting up Braun to get jumped by RETRIBUTION. Not that I think Bray is working with them.

I think the Firefly Fun House, into the brawl, into the ambulance finale was the main thrust of the Bray/Braun stuff for the week, and we'd've got that even if they hadn't moved into the Thunderdome.

I am curious if Alexa will get involved in their match - and, if so, who she'll hurt, and who she'll heal.

Apparently that's the second time the Miz has been late to the party in countering RETRIBUTION, so there might be something there. I'm willing to give the angle time, but wish they'd balance their antics between RAW and SD a bit better.

Semi-related - network exclusive clips of Big E being interviewed are hilarious. The one from SD should be on WWE.com.

**Sigur**

Yup, absolutely agree. Alexa Bliss is a great addition to the Fiend/Braun story. Surely one of the main draws of Summer Slam. Even though I have to say that I'm very keen on watching the Rollins/Mysterio match. Really enjoyed the Dominic storyline so far (underwhelming Extreme Rules match aside).

I just opened a new tab to look up the whole card of Summerslam. Just hit the first link and was very amused about the picture they chose for the article.

https://www.cnet.com/news/wwe-summerslam-2020-how-to-watch-start-time-full-card-and-wwe-network/. Top Notch work there, Cnet.

Anyway, here's what I think will happen:

Spoiler:

WWE Championship match: Drew McIntyre (c) vs. Randy Orton - I like the idea of Orton grabbing the belt and giving McIntyre a proper championship run when live audiences are back.
Falls Count Anywhere Universal Championship match: Braun Strowman (c) vs. "The Fiend" Bray Wyatt - Hard to say. I doubt there'll be a definitive outcome, or at least a ton of twists and turns. My guess would be Alexa intervening in favour of Braun (so he gets a mouthpiece. Visually and from a talking standpoint Alexa would be a great manager for Braun). Although somehow I also like the idea of all three of them standing tall as a sort of Firefly Family. On the other hand The Fiend/Wyatt currently works better alone. Really tough to say.
Street Fight: Dominik Mysterio vs. Seth Rollins - By any reason Rollins should win, but I'll say Dominic wins. This should NOT be a 'cinematic match'.
Raw Women's Championship match: Sasha Banks (c) vs. Asuka -
SmackDown Women's Championship match: Bayley (c) vs. Asuka - Both these matches will be really good. Story's interesting, isn't it. I assume the Bayley/Banks storyline will proceed a little, with Banks losing the title (possibly due to well-meaning Bayley intervention), and maybe turns on Bayley in the end. So I guess Asuka will end up being RAW champ, Bayley will keep her SD championship, Banks will be angry.
No DQ Loser Leaves WWE match: Sonya Deville vs. Mandy Rose - I thought that was a Hair Match? Also not easy to say. Mandy Rose bores me to tears (I didn't even recognize her when I skipped through SD.), Deville is great now. I used to really, really like her in-ring stuff, because it looked really powerful. Now she talks really well too. Great stuff. If I was to guess I'd say Mandy Rose wins. DeVille takes some time off, then turns up as a major badass in RAW underground or something like that.
United States Championship match: Apollo Crews (c) vs. MVP - Uhm. MVP. He's so much better at everything except the in-ring work.
Raw Tag Team Championship match: The Street Profits (c) vs. Andrade and Angel Garza - Andrade/Garza should win this.

**Dysartes**

The stipulation for the Sonya/Mandy match changed on Friday - possibly as a result of the incident during the week. I suspect we'll see Mandy win that one to give Sonya some time off (and to give her space to deal with the legal side of things).

The reason you might not have recognised her was that Sonya cut a bunch of her hair off a couple of weeks back, which is why she's now in what keeps getting called a "soccer mom" look.

I think it says something for the card that the Sonya/Mandy match is currently the only one I feel confident predicting.

If Alexa does interfere in the Fiend/Braun match, based on interactions over the last couple of weeks I think she's more likely to aid The Fiend - hell hath no fury, after all.

**Sigur**

Well, Summerslam!

Spoiler:

Overall - really fun show. Not really convinced by the webcam audience. I suppose it allows the WWE to very much unashamedly use canned cheers and boos now. More so than before.

**Sigur**

Just started watching All Out.

"You're in my home." "you're in my world" "and I'm a dentist!".

Quotes for eternity.

**Dysartes**

The Matt Hardy incident sounds a bit worrying, I'll be honest.

**Sigur**

Oh yes, it looked horrifying. The whole match went down really weirdly. Of course such a thing happening in a loser leaves town match is particularly problematic. In my opinion they still should have called it off, but oh well. Just glad I don't read wrestling twitter (or twitter outside my wargamey niche in general).

There were some things that also went wrong, and for some reason this was the first AOE PPV in which things that annoy me a little piled up. Gimmick stuff during the battle royale, too much chatter from commentary (3 is too many. I appreciate Jim Ross, I appreciate Tony Schiavone (especially the interplay between those two), Taz is a great commentator and Excalibur ...knows a lot? But the constant talking was too much for me. Especially if during a match Wresters say something as well.

**A Town Called Malus**

Dysartes wrote:
The Matt Hardy incident sounds a bit worrying, I'll be honest.

They fethed up, for sure. That match should have ended right then.

**Alpharius**

Finn Balor is *finally* the Champ again!

I do wonder if he'll bring back the Demon once Kross returns from injury?

(If he hold the title that long, of course!)

**Dysartes**

I'm not sure how well the Demon meshes with the Prince - but we'll see.

Looks like there was some interesting stuff on AEW last night, including one big new debut.

**Sigur**

@Alpharius: I really like what Balor's doing on NXT again. Especially that they don't get the daemon out all the time, as it should be. But for a match once Kross returns... yeah, I'd like to see that.

@Dysartes: Oh yes. Wow, the guy was beaming. Really nice to see.

I did NOT look forward to that segment, because it's very much something you'd see on RAW as well, and I didn't care all that much for the fake-outs in front (although: Brian Pillman Jr. Nice.), but the reveal was really good in the end. It would have been good in either case I guess, because he was so happy, people were happy... great stuff.

Also: The Matt Hardy thing was handled well.

**Alpharius**

NXT and AEW are the only two managing to hold my attention these days...

They're doing some good stuff - more so than RAW and Smackdown!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Yup.

Women’s WWE remains a firm favourite. It seems that when the Women progressed from NXT to the main roster, they took everything great about them along with.

The men? Not so much. And I am not blaming the athletes. It’s the writers, 100% of the time.

**A Town Called Malus**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup.

Women’s WWE remains a firm favourite. It seems that when the Women progressed from NXT to the main roster, they took everything great about them along with.

The men? Not so much. And I am not blaming the athletes. It’s the writers, 100% of the time.

The Roman Reigns and Paul Heyman stuff seems interesting. Very different dynamic than Heyman had with Brock and Roman's heel turn has been so long coming. Just gotta wait and see how creative manages to mess up a killer monster heel whose own manager is seemingly terrified of him.

But yeah, the women's stuff always seems to be at least more consistent, though not without its own major issues.

**Lance845**

I have been completely out of wrestling for a long long time but was majorly into it in my youth.

I just looked up the WWEs website to look at the roster of wrestlers. What a bunch of boring looking people wearing black.

There used to be so much personality! Ultimate Warrior was always my favorite. But I mean...

These guys.

have more personality in their basic look then any 4 people in that entire roster.

Boo I say! Boo!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

WWE has, sort of, more embraced technical brilliance.

Yes they still have their Splungers (geet big muscle Mary’s), but the actual Wrestling is more dynamic.

Now, I’m not saying it’s better. Just that it’s more My Thing. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the sheer choreography we’re seeing is far more Combat Ballet than two choncs just bashing each other to bits.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
We’re also at a crossroads for WWE.

With the advent of AEW (shamefully I’ve still not watched it) they have, if you will, an Organised Resistance. Top hole competitor that promises to give the audience that which WWE can’t. Or more likely, won’t.

And everyone needs a competitor. Someone to take the risks you didn’t, and inspire you onwards.

Here’s hoping WWE doesn’t just swallow up AEW.

**Mr. Burning**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And everyone needs a competitor. Someone to take the risks you didn’t, and inspire you onwards.

Here’s hoping WWE doesn’t just swallow up AEW.

Its alright MDG AEW are doing WCW of the mid nineties, taking on ex wwe talent. Hopefully they don't pollute their own talent pool and just become Bullet club and chums....wait......

**Lance845**

I mean thats good. The choreography is a must because it IS all basically scripted at least in part.

But look, wrestling is a soap opera that plays out in fights. And soap operas are built on the backs of the characters. Wrestling used to have lavish interesting characters.

Uping the "special effects" by getting better at the fighting is great. But why should I give a gak that big dude with shaved head in black underoos is fighting big dude with shaved head in black underoos? If you are going to soap opera is up then give me some rowdy roddy pipers, mankinds, psycho sid viciouses, rick flairs, million dollar mans, and ultimate warriors. Wheres my Papa Shongos? Or even a rivalry like Big Boss Man and Nails?

I have no idea what AEW is. I will look that up.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I can only recommend watching some.

I’m not a big fan of the glitz stuff. But I do appreciate some decent script writing. WWE are deeply irritating in that regard.

There are sparks and runs of sheer brilliance, no doubt. But too many outstay their welcome or just sort of fizzle out.

**Mr. Burning**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I can only recommend watching some.

I’m not a big fan of the glitz stuff. But I do appreciate some decent script writing. WWE are deeply irritating in that regard.

There are sparks and runs of sheer brilliance, no doubt. But too many outstay their welcome or just sort of fizzle out.

What Jim Cornette gets right IMO is that you need time to build a story, you need to tell that story within the ring. WWE have for many years disregarded a slow burn story, partly because of VKM's distaste for old school 'wrasslin.

Personally I hope WWE pays off its recent history with BIg E originally being in Roman Reigns position as top star. RR is now in the right place albeit 3 or 4 years late and Big E Looks like he will be pushed for a run. BIg E winning the title from RR at Wrestlemania would be a nice little tale, if a bit smarky.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

To be honest, right now?

I’m just chuffed my Wrestling literacy is sufficient for people to take my comments and consider them.

It really is absolutely top notch entertainment when it’s good!