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I'd probably put describe the following women on the WWE/AEW rosters as capable or not... with additional notes where necessary.

Not touching NXT, though there are some very good women on that card still.

 Alpharius wrote:
I really have had enough of Brock Lesnar already, again.

But I guess he's a big money draw still for WWE?

Ugh.

Indeed. And such lazy booking as well for the Rumble itself. But…I actually quite enjoyed his match against Lashley for once. Normally splunge vs splunge bores me to tears, but that one was pretty decent.

To be fair, Cargill is the TBS champion, which is the secondary women's title in AEW, and she's getting the push because she's a draw (and alright, considering how new she is).

There's a ton of capable female wrestlers out there. Within the WWE, as well as outside. Off the top of my head:

.) Asuka (WWE, she's cleared as far as I know)
.) Smiley Kylie Rae
.) Srena Deeb
.) Yuka Sakazaki
.) Myu Yamashita
.) The Bunny / Ally
.) Tay Conti (certainly capable enough for a rumble)
.) Thunder Rosa (I'm not the greatest fan, but capable)
.) Deonna Purrazzo
.) Alexa Bliss (okay, her in-ring capabilities depend on taste a bit)
.) Ryo Mizunami
.) Ruby Soho / Riott
.) Toni Storm
.) Rhea Ripley
.) Bianca Belair
.) Natalya
.) Hikaru Shida (not the most exciting personality, though super capable)
.) Riho (again, depending on tastes, same as with Maki Itoh)
.) Sasha Banks
.) Mickie James
.) Naomi (I'm not a huge fan, but capable she is)
.) Shayna Baszler
.) Jamie Hayter
.) Kris Statlander
.) Io Shirai
.) Charlotte Flair
.) Britt Baker
.) Rosemary
.) Ember Moon
.) Kairi Sane


...plus several Stardom ladies (because I know nothing about Stardom), including home-girl Thekla. Oh, and plus NXT ladies, none of whom I'm familiar with, but I'm sure there's some greats in there as well.

Okay, towards the end I had to google a little bit. But doesn't make the ones towards the bottom of the list any worse in my view (Ember Moon is class). There's tons more of course, and I'm sure I omitted several very obvious ones (Bayley I didn't list because I'm not sure if she's cleared yet, Becky Lynch was already booked for another match that night). And this isn't just wrestlers I could think of; that's wrestlers of who I'm sure that the widest consensus is that they're very capable in-ring workers.


Who I wanted to list but in the end didn't was Tennile Dashwood, but I haven't seen a match of hers in ages.

So, apparently Shane Mcmahon has been let go.

Came in, booked the rumble like he is Hulk Hogan (50 year old sweaty man out-strikes the mma fighter, eliminates Kevin Owens, is then one of the final four), pissed off everyone, and was then let go.

feth me, WWE is a clown show. Well, without the mirth and fun.

I was surprised he was there to begin with. Didn't he cut ties with the company a few months ago?

Either way, yeah, he wasn't a very good addition to an already not-very-good rumble.



Just tried to listen to Renee Parquette's podcast. The latest episode features an interview with Nia Jax, which I'm sure is very interesting, but I just couldn't make it past the first three minutes. The amount of 'like's these two women put in their sentences is just too much for me. It's just a horrible habit and really detrimental to how I estimate the person's intellect even though I know that they both are lovely and smart.

Rumble definitely suffered from three stunt performers.

Shane? Yeah ok. Johnny Knoxville? Nearly 20 years too late. Bad Bunny? Just a shame we didn’t see everyone take their turn buttering him up the ring.

Of the three, I'd argue Bad Bunny is the closest to being a workable talent - put on a great showing alongside Damien Priest against Miz/Morrison at last year's Wrestlemania, including pulling out a Canadian Destroyer...

 Alpharius wrote:
I really have had enough of Brock Lesnar already, again.

But I guess he's a big money draw still for WWE?

Ugh.

It´s a worrying development for professional wrestling in general that WWE needs to rely on former MMA talents like Lesnar and Rousey in order to generate interest in their product. But that´s their fault as well because they were reluctant to build stars of their own.

Another bad aspect for WWE´s show is that fans tend to associate the above talents as being the only "legitimate" badasses/tough guys on the roster.

So it looks like throughout the world of professional wrestling you should be able to find thirty women to have a decent rumble with without so many non-active women. I still think it is unlikely and impractical to have that many on one roster though hence the need to pull from the past.

 Strg Alt wrote:
It´s a worrying development for professional wrestling in general that WWE needs to rely on former MMA talents like Lesnar and Rousey in order to generate interest in their product. But that´s their fault as well because they were reluctant to build stars of their own.

Another bad aspect for WWE´s show is that fans tend to associate the above talents as being the only "legitimate" badasses/tough guys on the roster.

To be fair, Lesnar was a collegiate national champion wrestler and a member of the WWE for over 5 years before going into mma. As for fans perception of them being the only tough ones on the roster, well, its probably because the majority of roster are busy doing flips or playing with pancakes. If you want to be perceived as legitimate you need to act like you are legitimate.

...you need the WWE writers to be willing/allowed to give you lines that don't make you a clown or a smug idiot. But yeah, looking back Lesnar has been with WWE for a LONG time now, and he's really doing good things for the company. I enjoy seeing him, especially right now. He can talk (and be funny without looking like an idiot, because he doesn't give a hoot and above all he's dangerous), and his matches are spectacles. Especially seeing him sell things. So I absoultely agree with you there.


Flips are okay. We need flippy dudes. What we need less of is written humour and funny characters forced upon people who maybe shouldn't be. Some people (like New Day) got over on the basis that they are proper funny and got range. Big E will never be a pure badass fighter dude, but he's funny-charismatic. So that works for him.

I think what's lacking is legitimacy in the characters, and I think that's due to how overproduced WWE's product is. Lesnar and Rousey are shown as a legitimate threat, because we KNOW they are buff-brawly people in proper. But that's from outside of WWE. Somehow they don't manage to build characters with legitimacy within their own system. What gets a pure WWE wrestler legitimacy is seniority, because seniority means they get to have more input in the creative of their character and to an extent they probably know better how to work within the WWE system to get the vision for their character through. Which is why Roman Reigns works so splendidly now. He's been around for a long time now (of course the physical traits only enabled him to do so), he's done probably most of what he was asked to do, WWE know they can rely on him. Same with Rollins. So now they can have some fun with their characters. Not that I'm hugely into Rollins right now. Dressing up like an idiot and ruining the cackle which I had so much fun with the past years doesn't do it for me (same thing with Becky Lynch. Why the hell is she not a babyface with an edge?)

I mean the seniority thing probably is universal in wrestling. Just as with figure paintmonkeys, with the one ones that stick around you know they're good and use ful (subtley putting myself over ), but with WWE's approach to creative and name IPs and so on it's all a bit more complex.


One more thing on women's wrestling - there are several women-only promotions which work perfectly fine. WWE released a ton of people over the past 2 years, and insists in having their roster split up into two. That's why the women's roster looks so thin over there.

The other thing is if you don't have enough women to do a 30 woman rumble without padding the numbers with past women who weren't great then and look even worse now by comparison to the current roster, then don't do a 30 woman rumble.

Do 20, or 25 or whatever. Sure, they'll have to change their stock commentary and promos but is that really a bad thing?

Just having a quick gander at the NXT roster, it is even more surprising that they didn't pull some talent from there for the Women's Rumble - while some of the talent is still developing, there are several there who could've worked the Rumble in place of some of the Legends without an issue.

Off-hand, and assuming WWE.com is up to date, I'd've suggested the following - Dakota Kai, Indi Hartwell, Io Shirai, Kay Lee Ray, Raquel Gonzalez, Sarray and Zoey Stark, and could see arguments made for Kacy Catanzaro and Kayden Carter as well.

That's without putting any of the holder's of female gold in NXT into the match, though I'd only suggest Mandy Rose there, as I think t'other pair are too green.

That's a potential ten spots that could be filled by people who are working a weekly TV product. I wouldn't be booking any of them to win, but they'd do a better job of "making up the numbers" than some of the Legends apparently did.

 Dysartes wrote:
Just having a quick gander at the NXT roster, it is even more surprising that they didn't pull some talent from there for the Women's Rumble - while some of the talent is still developing, there are several there who could've worked the Rumble in place of some of the Legends without an issue.

Off-hand, and assuming WWE.com is up to date, I'd've suggested the following - Dakota Kai, Indi Hartwell, Io Shirai, Kay Lee Ray, Raquel Gonzalez, Sarray and Zoey Stark, and could see arguments made for Kacy Catanzaro and Kayden Carter as well.

That's without putting any of the holder's of female gold in NXT into the match, though I'd only suggest Mandy Rose there, as I think t'other pair are too green.

That's a potential ten spots that could be filled by people who are working a weekly TV product. I wouldn't be booking any of them to win, but they'd do a better job of "making up the numbers" than some of the Legends apparently did.

Interesting we’ve had at least two references to John Moxley on WWE, by the nickname Mox, rather than Dean Ambrose.

Yeah. Makes the youtube 'news' hounds squee and all. And I assume it's out of fondness/respect Rollins and Reigns have for Moxley. So all's well, I suppose.

I was curious about where the heck Diamante was. I hadn't seen her on AEW programming pretty much since that Big Swole feud, I think. So I looked her up, and it turns out she isn't even signed to the company. That surprised me. Other people who aren't actually signed to AEW, but have been around a lot: KiLynn King (I like her) and Wheeler Yuta. Interesting. Well, to some extent at least

 Sigur wrote:
...you need the WWE writers to be willing/allowed to give you lines that don't make you a clown or a smug idiot. But yeah, looking back Lesnar has been with WWE for a LONG time now, and he's really doing good things for the company. I enjoy seeing him, especially right now. He can talk (and be funny without looking like an idiot, because he doesn't give a hoot and above all he's dangerous), and his matches are spectacles. Especially seeing him sell things. So I absoultely agree with you there.


Flips are okay. We need flippy dudes. What we need less of is written humour and funny characters forced upon people who maybe shouldn't be. Some people (like New Day) got over on the basis that they are proper funny and got range. Big E will never be a pure badass fighter dude, but he's funny-charismatic. So that works for him.

I think what's lacking is legitimacy in the characters, and I think that's due to how overproduced WWE's product is. Lesnar and Rousey are shown as a legitimate threat, because we KNOW they are buff-brawly people in proper. But that's from outside of WWE. Somehow they don't manage to build characters with legitimacy within their own system. What gets a pure WWE wrestler legitimacy is seniority, because seniority means they get to have more input in the creative of their character and to an extent they probably know better how to work within the WWE system to get the vision for their character through. Which is why Roman Reigns works so splendidly now. He's been around for a long time now (of course the physical traits only enabled him to do so), he's done probably most of what he was asked to do, WWE know they can rely on him. Same with Rollins. So now they can have some fun with their characters. Not that I'm hugely into Rollins right now. Dressing up like an idiot and ruining the cackle which I had so much fun with the past years doesn't do it for me (same thing with Becky Lynch. Why the hell is she not a babyface with an edge?)

I mean the seniority thing probably is universal in wrestling. Just as with figure paintmonkeys, with the one ones that stick around you know they're good and use ful (subtley putting myself over ), but with WWE's approach to creative and name IPs and so on it's all a bit more complex.


One more thing on women's wrestling - there are several women-only promotions which work perfectly fine. WWE released a ton of people over the past 2 years, and insists in having their roster split up into two. That's why the women's roster looks so thin over there.

I can agree there is a lacking of legitimacy but I would be hesitant to drop it completely at the writers door. Yes, they are the ones controlling the creative narrative, but I think kayfabe being long dead has a lot to do with it. A lot of wrestlers in the days gone past presented themselves as fighters and people you didn't want to mess with. Todays wrestlers present themselves as performers or actors and little more. You know they aren't legitimate by the virtue that you know wrestling itself isn't legitimate. That is just how modern wrestling is. The few that have earned legitimacy have done so via doing work in mma.

Seniority can help you in the WWE like it can in most places I just dont think it does as much as you think. Look at some of the wrestlers with the most seniority and some of their recent stories. Kurt Angle loses a retirement match to Baron Corbin. Randy Orton is in a stupid feud with Bray Wyatt and pretends to have burn scars only not to the next week. Chris Jericho and Kevin Owens were doing amazing work and were basically ignored. Regal, who had been with the WWE for over 20 years, and his crew were all just fired from the company. While seniority may give you a better opportunity to be heard when you speak up, quite simply Vince is going to Vince. And that is why Roman Reigns is where he is at, not seniority. Vince has wanted Roman at the front of the company for years and its only recently has he lucked into getting him over.

In regards to the womens rumble, they have dug themselves in a hole and they probably feel the best thing to do is to continue what they are doing. While it makes perfect sense to drop it down to 20 participants they can't. It's been a few years now but one of the main reasons why the women got a royal rumble match in the first place was to sell the womens revolution in the WWE. They did it mostly to buy some good pr with the fans and to try to stop the women from complaining so much. To reduce the number would hurt the image of that along with showing how few women the WWE have on the roster. Probably not a look they want.

I think in 'seniority' I used the wrong word there. As you said, seniority will help, but your position on the card is a huge factor as well. I don't think that Natalya has a lot of input on her lines or stories for instance. I don't blame the writers directly, but the whole system of written scripts which go through several hands before they are put on TV. And of course Vince is going to Vince.

I enjoy the Women's Royal rumbles, but yeah, they can't go back on the number. That's the funny thing - quality isn't that much of a concern as long as the numbers are right. Numbers can easily be counted and compared and get mad about on twitter. Anyway. I think the Women's Rumble works as it is, WWE just should get their NXT women ready for the main roster, as I don't think they're interested in hiring outside talent right now. The Rumble is the place for novelty acts, bringing back old people, and so on. I think that's okay, as long as it's not too much. This year it was too much. Funnily enough, one of those got us one of the most interesting moments (Nikki ASH attacking Molly Holly. I bet they won't do anything with it though, apart from having Nikki run as a lower card heel.).

LOL! Shane McMahon just left the premises. Good job on that Rumble, Shane.

https://youtu.be/H814_uIs6D0

Sounds like last night's Dynamite was fun, though I've only watched the clips on YT myself.

I just watched it, and it really was loads of fun.

And now we know what totaled those SpaceX satellites...

 Dysartes wrote:
And now we know what totaled those SpaceX satellites...

Spoiler:

...Isiah Kassidy, during that first throw from Keith Lee.

Badum-tssss.

Honestly, when I read about that today I was aghast how many satellites SpaceX got in orbit.


edit: What AEW do with Hook is pure magic. No idea how they're going to proceed, but I'm eager to see it.

Tokyo Joshi Pro Wrestling Positive Chain '22.

I enjoyed it! English commentary too. Not the best commentary by far, but still. It helped me understand some more stuff and it added some entertainment. Slowly getting to know the roster. Enjoyable, fun. Didn't really feel like close to 4 hours at all.



edit: Wrestling's a bit exciting right now, isn't it.


edit2: Wait. Melissa Joan Hart called Kevin Owens a lazy wrestler in 2015!? Outrage! It's on, witch!

Elimination Chamber

Couple of duds, but overall really rather good!

Reigns vs Goldberg

First match, utterly flaccid. Goldberg just ain’t got it.

Wimmins’ Elimination Chamber

Bloody impressive all round. Absolutely everyone pulled and punched their weight. Great to see Alexa Bliss return, and in fine form. I may be a little bit more in love with Rhea Ripley.

Rousey and Naomi vs Charlotte Flair and Sonya Deville

I suspect this will be divisive, but I enjoyed it. Some cool stuff by Rousey for sure.

Drew McIntyre vs Madcap Moss

Superb stuff. Really really enjoyable.

Becky Lynch vs Lita

Excellent match. Truly excellent. Lita still has it, and both ladies made each other look fantastic in the ring. Hopefully we might see more of Lita in the future.

The Usos vs Viking Raiders

Really not sure why they bothered. Not as flaccid as the opener, but still a big old question mark in the booking.

Men’s Elimination Chamber

Quite good fun. Really not sure if Lashley getting squished was Kayfabe or not. Because we get the weekly shows a month late, I can’t really follow the plots, such as they are. Could be genuine injury.

Reports indicate Lashley was injured. How mad did the Madcap Moss botch look when you were watching it?

I quite enjoyed it. Happy Corbin still feels a bit out of place, and do bare in mind I was coming in plot blind, so I’ve no idea how well hyped the match should’ve been.

But some impressive scrapping, and Drew remains one of my faves.

Oh wait. The botch. Bloody painful to be honest! I did wonder if it was a botch at first, as they don’t generally call attention to them. But landing square on yojr noggin is gonna hurt. Hopefully he’s OK, as I think Moss has a decent future.

I just watched Elimination Chamber. Went over pretty fast. It was alright all in all, I'd say. Madcap Moss falling on his head looked GNARLY. Yikes.


Reigns vs Goldberg

It was alright for a Goldberg match. Good idea to use it as an opener. Also served as a nice occasion for revisiting the rope break rules.



Wimmins’ Elimination Chamber

Good times.Unfortunately I've had the result of this one spoilered. Rhea Ripley is a star.On a personal level, I'm really starting to like Liv Morgan. I just can't really see her as a main eventer.


Rousey and Naomi vs Charlotte Flair and Sonya Deville

It was alright. I really liked Rousey's whole presentation. No complicated braids, no war paint. the stipulation was just silly (but at least fun, old-school heel stuff on DeVille's side). Between this one and the Elimination chamber match - how many fetish stores did the WWE seamstresses raid for this event?


Drew McIntyre vs Madcap Moss

Madcap Moss is starting to grow on me. I think he could be a good face actually. Of course without the jokes. Drew MxIntyre is just good. WWE should present him as such.


Becky Lynch vs Lita

I have little to none emotional connection to Lita. All I know is that she's probably a pretty cool lady. Becky Lynch is great (despite the generally gaunt face she's got now. Bulk her up!). The match was perfectly fine, especially for Lita, who to my knowledge hadn't wrestled at all in many, many moons before the Royal Rumble.


The Usos vs Viking Raiders

Ya, well...


Men’s Elimination Chamber

It was fine. We (the people I watch with via Discord) have this running joke in which I think that Austin Theory is the future of the WWE and most probably the guy who'll take the title off Roman. To be fair though, I really think that this might be the case. Just think about it: First, Theory takes out Lashley via a VICIOUS team move, THEN proceeds to be the last one in the ring along with Brock Lesnar, and via a VICIOUS (slightly under-handed) move almost gets rid of him too! Oh well. Anyway, I love current Brock Lesnar, and seeing him with the proper title (the black one) just looks right to me.


Pretty fun show.



Also fun: On Rampage, Trent Beretta got out the old "knife pervert" moniker for Jay White. That amused me a lot.

That Madcap Moss botch was brutal. I hated that they kept replaying it before they could really establish he was okay. Hopefully it isn't the kind of neck injury that flares up later. Everything I saw said he was fine, but yikes.

I think the most important thing to me about the Wimmins Chamber match was that everyone was clearly having a blast, and nothing felt forced or obviously out of place.

About the only move which didn’t quite land, or perhaps more accurately shouldn’t haven’t landed was Alexa doing that spinny Black Widow thing on Ripley.

There was something just ever so slightly off about it, but man both ladies sold it beautifully. And anything off about it is almost certainly competently explained by Alexa having a bit of ring rust - which soon seemed well and truly dusted off by the match’s conclusion.

Now. On that botch, can anyone suggest who might’ve botched it? Was it a team effort, just bad luck etc?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Now. On that botch, can anyone suggest who might’ve botched it? Was it a team effort, just bad luck etc?

Apparently, Moss apologized to McMahon & McIntyre for the botch.