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I'm looking to build about 1000 points of stormcast eternals and have decided on judicators as the battleline unit as they seem to be to be the opitmal choice. How many of these should I run and with what bows? I was thinking four normal bows and the big bow in a 5 man unit.

If mobile and needing rend: Bows

If Gunline and wanting anti-infantry: Crossbows

Either special is good, make sure to put it on the leader for his +1 to hit bonus.

MSU or Big units are fine,

Note that the +1 to hit works on the special bow, but does nothing for the special crossbow. In general I would suggest the bow, just given the range and rend. The crossbow can do more damage, but only in certain circumstances so in an 'all-comers' list you are more likely to get a good result with the bows.

Either big units or MSU is fine, but I think MSU is slightly more optimal in a Matched Play setting. Battleline requirements are filled by actual units deployed, not number of models, so 2 units of 5 fulfils the requirement just as well as units of 10 (and more cheaply). Damage output is very similar except that in MSU all of your special bows will be carried by primes which will give a marginal overall performance increase.

MSU baby. Works everytime. And bows all the way.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
MSU baby. Works everytime. And bows all the way.

It's a real pity as that big crossbow looks amazing

Judicator is just gak. The winged man with jevelin just do double damage under same points.

Crossbow is not a choice. 12' is nothing even for infantry. Blood reaver will flood you so easily.

All from my matched play experience.

Aeonotakist wrote:
Judicator is just gak. The winged man with jevelin just do double damage under same points.

Crossbow is not a choice. 12' is nothing even for infantry. Blood reaver will flood you so easily.

All from my matched play experience.

The judicators have the advantage of being battleline though

 Spyro_Killer wrote:

Aeonotakist wrote:
Judicator is just gak. The winged man with jevelin just do double damage under same points.

Crossbow is not a choice. 12' is nothing even for infantry. Blood reaver will flood you so easily.

All from my matched play experience.

The judicators have the advantage of being battleline though

actually if you buy 5 judicators (160 points), it will be much worse compare with 5 librator and 3 Prosecutors with jevelins. (180 points)

The 3 Prosecutors have almost same damage as 5 judicators, while librator is not completely useless.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
6 Prosecutors have a average output of 7,5, while 5 Judicators have 4,1.
But they are of same points.

Prosecutor also has a unique advantage that it cannot be blocked line of sight by ground unit. The model is standing tall so you can always draw a line to enemy HQ even it is shrounded by others.

it is simply under scored.

Totally agreed. I have two units of Hammer Prosecutors in my 1000 point army right now. I'm using them because they came with the starter box. I'll be swapping/converting to javelins as soon as I get around to it.

 Kriswall wrote:
Totally agreed. I have two units of Hammer Prosecutors in my 1000 point army right now. I'm using them because they came with the starter box. I'll be swapping/converting to javelins as soon as I get around to it.

The only reason I don't use them is they are a pain to transport and they snap incredibly easily, even when using superglue.

 WarbossDakka wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Totally agreed. I have two units of Hammer Prosecutors in my 1000 point army right now. I'm using them because they came with the starter box. I'll be swapping/converting to javelins as soon as I get around to it.

The only reason I don't use them is they are a pain to transport and they snap incredibly easily, even when using superglue.

That's not surprising. Superglue is more brittle than plastic glue and provides a worse bond for something like this. It has basically no shear strength. I bought a shoebox sized plastic tub at the local dollar store for a dollar and lined it with paper towel before just tossing the Prosecutors in. I've never had an issue. I could see how the wings would snap off easily with super glue though. It's not the right glue for the job.

Why do much love for the javelin over the hammer? 1 damage 2 attack if over 9 inches away doesn't sound a whole lot better than 2 damage 1 attacks.
This plus the extra attacks in melee seem to give the edge to hammers in my opinion.

'cause they are 20 points cheaper, that's the core reason I see people loving them so much.

honestly: Liberators do just fine as a decent core, Judicators can do great with either weapon (having rend on the bows is a great buff), and both types of Prosecutors have a use: hammers for more attacks + the ability to take one of the pretty great weapon upgrades, and javelins for a cheap wizard/artillery hunter and late game objective grabber.)

 Brennonjw wrote:
'cause they are 20 points cheaper, that's the core reason I see people loving them so much.

honestly: Liberators do just fine as a decent core, Judicators can do great with either weapon (having rend on the bows is a great buff), and both types of Prosecutors have a use: hammers for more attacks + the ability to take one of the pretty great weapon upgrades, and javelins for a cheap wizard/artillery hunter and late game objective grabber.)

+1! Works like a charm.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
'cause they are 20 points cheaper, that's the core reason I see people loving them so much.

honestly: Liberators do just fine as a decent core, Judicators can do great with either weapon (having rend on the bows is a great buff), and both types of Prosecutors have a use: hammers for more attacks + the ability to take one of the pretty great weapon upgrades, and javelins for a cheap wizard/artillery hunter and late game objective grabber.)

+1! Works like a charm.

They are much better because their leader get one more attack in shooting and can carry special shooting weapon.

Prosecutor with hammer is the worst unit in SCE, while with jevelin is almost the best.

I think none of you really tried to fight 6 units of jevelin in matched 1000 game. It can shoot the gak out of even treeman hunters.

Horses for courses as they say.

Hammers beat javelins on damage output hands down. Hammers are decent in melee, javelins are crap. You can still shoot whilst in melee, so you can use your shooting and then your melee. You can shoot then charge. Hammers are not really a focused missile unit, but a fast melee unit that uses its missile ability to augment its fair melee capability, but can stay back for some ranged damage if it suits.

Javelins are very good at shooting when they stay at distance (9" +) , that makes them not so good at shooting whilst in melee, which with the bad melee makes them very bad compared to hammers. It also means they take a bigger risk of failed charge if they hold back to fire at full effect before charging compared to hammers who can close as much as they can (3 dice for both helps a lot, but longer charge distance is still higher chance of fail). Javelins can also suffer from being pushed away from objectives if they want to fire at full effect, where as hammers can fight at full power whilst holding.

javelins are very good if all you are after is a fast missile unit, that doesn't expect to fight in melee or hold something. Although the 18" range is an issue, it leaves them out ranged by a lot of other missile stuff, or more subject to being charged by other melee stuff compared to other longer ranged missile units. But the poor melee and shortish range is what you get for having a fast moving, flying, hard hitting missile attack.

With Juidicators again don't forget that you can shoot even when in melee. That means those crossbows you dismissed are actually quite good, a line of crossbows behind a melee line can fire 3 shots whilst it stands there firing into the melee. If it does get attacked then as long as you do not move (which you can't during the move phase other then retreat) then it will shoot 3 attacks each then melee for 1 more attack, 4 attacks per model is not at all bad, even if they are fairly basic. It puts their damage output into the same ballpark or better as the javelin guys for the same points (bit harder to say how well the special crossbow will perform generically, as it depends on what you are fighting numbers wise). The mortal wounds of the special crossbow is obviously nice, and of course what the Judicators are good at is nuking chaos, rerollings 1's to hit when you only needed 3s is quite nice.


Kurnoth hunters are good at shooting, and pretty tanky in melee with 5 wounds and rerollable saves, compared to 2 wounds and reroll 1s save. They also have a better bravery, plus a much longer range. It is also not unlikely they will be stood inside a wyldwood for an additional +1 save and all the other issues that gives for an enemy. Hunters with 30" range in wyldwood is a fairly good missile base if pure shooting is what you want.

In other words, yes javelins are very good at missile as that is what it focuses on. But everything else is also good, and maybe even better if you focus on what they overall do rather than just on what the javelins are specialised for.

puree wrote:
Horses for courses as they say.

Hammers beat javelins on damage output hands down. Hammers are decent in melee, javelins are crap. You can still shoot whilst in melee, so you can use your shooting and then your melee. You can shoot then charge. Hammers are not really a focused missile unit, but a fast melee unit that uses its missile ability to augment its fair melee capability, but can stay back for some ranged damage if it suits.

Javelins are very good at shooting when they stay at distance (9" +) , that makes them not so good at shooting whilst in melee, which with the bad melee makes them very bad compared to hammers. It also means they take a bigger risk of failed charge if they hold back to fire at full effect before charging compared to hammers who can close as much as they can (3 dice for both helps a lot, but longer charge distance is still higher chance of fail). Javelins can also suffer from being pushed away from objectives if they want to fire at full effect, where as hammers can fight at full power whilst holding.

javelins are very good if all you are after is a fast missile unit, that doesn't expect to fight in melee or hold something. Although the 18" range is an issue, it leaves them out ranged by a lot of other missile stuff, or more subject to being charged by other melee stuff compared to other longer ranged missile units. But the poor melee and shortish range is what you get for having a fast moving, flying, hard hitting missile attack.

With Juidicators again don't forget that you can shoot even when in melee. That means those crossbows you dismissed are actually quite good, a line of crossbows behind a melee line can fire 3 shots whilst it stands there firing into the melee. If it does get attacked then as long as you do not move (which you can't during the move phase other then retreat) then it will shoot 3 attacks each then melee for 1 more attack, 4 attacks per model is not at all bad, even if they are fairly basic. It puts their damage output into the same ballpark or better as the javelin guys for the same points (bit harder to say how well the special crossbow will perform generically, as it depends on what you are fighting numbers wise). The mortal wounds of the special crossbow is obviously nice, and of course what the Judicators are good at is nuking chaos, rerollings 1's to hit when you only needed 3s is quite nice.


Kurnoth hunters are good at shooting, and pretty tanky in melee with 5 wounds and rerollable saves, compared to 2 wounds and reroll 1s save. They also have a better bravery, plus a much longer range. It is also not unlikely they will be stood inside a wyldwood for an additional +1 save and all the other issues that gives for an enemy. Hunters with 30" range in wyldwood is a fairly good missile base if pure shooting is what you want.

In other words, yes javelins are very good at missile as that is what it focuses on. But everything else is also good, and maybe even better if you focus on what they overall do rather than just on what the javelins are specialised for.

I still think you have no idea of jevelin at all.
The leader of the team got one more attack in shooting phase and can carry a triden. He alone is a unit of 2A/3+/3+/-1/2D in shooting phase.
If 5 teams of Jevelins (each contain 3 model) focus fire on a 3+ HQ, they can do average 10 damage in one turn and is impossible to block by line of sight. while the same points of treeman hunter (about 2.3 units) can only do 7 damage.
There is almost no other shooting units can make similar output as the jevelin in shooting phase.

Also if you run main jevelin army list (jevelins around 50% of the points), you can have around 6~7 units in 1000 game. They can spread very wide and attack from all direction. If you only have one or two core units (that run very fast and hit very hard) can kill a whole unit of jevelin in one turn, it takes 4~6 turns to wipe them all out. Meanwhile each Jevelin unit can made 3~4 effective wound in each turn.

A mean jevelin list will never ask those guys to charge or do anything brilliant in melee battle. If some of them got engaged, just let it go and they other guys keep shooting.

Aeonotakist wrote:

puree wrote:
Horses for courses as they say.

Hammers beat javelins on damage output hands down. Hammers are decent in melee, javelins are crap. You can still shoot whilst in melee, so you can use your shooting and then your melee. You can shoot then charge. Hammers are not really a focused missile unit, but a fast melee unit that uses its missile ability to augment its fair melee capability, but can stay back for some ranged damage if it suits.

Javelins are very good at shooting when they stay at distance (9" +) , that makes them not so good at shooting whilst in melee, which with the bad melee makes them very bad compared to hammers. It also means they take a bigger risk of failed charge if they hold back to fire at full effect before charging compared to hammers who can close as much as they can (3 dice for both helps a lot, but longer charge distance is still higher chance of fail). Javelins can also suffer from being pushed away from objectives if they want to fire at full effect, where as hammers can fight at full power whilst holding.

javelins are very good if all you are after is a fast missile unit, that doesn't expect to fight in melee or hold something. Although the 18" range is an issue, it leaves them out ranged by a lot of other missile stuff, or more subject to being charged by other melee stuff compared to other longer ranged missile units. But the poor melee and shortish range is what you get for having a fast moving, flying, hard hitting missile attack.

With Juidicators again don't forget that you can shoot even when in melee. That means those crossbows you dismissed are actually quite good, a line of crossbows behind a melee line can fire 3 shots whilst it stands there firing into the melee. If it does get attacked then as long as you do not move (which you can't during the move phase other then retreat) then it will shoot 3 attacks each then melee for 1 more attack, 4 attacks per model is not at all bad, even if they are fairly basic. It puts their damage output into the same ballpark or better as the javelin guys for the same points (bit harder to say how well the special crossbow will perform generically, as it depends on what you are fighting numbers wise). The mortal wounds of the special crossbow is obviously nice, and of course what the Judicators are good at is nuking chaos, rerollings 1's to hit when you only needed 3s is quite nice.


Kurnoth hunters are good at shooting, and pretty tanky in melee with 5 wounds and rerollable saves, compared to 2 wounds and reroll 1s save. They also have a better bravery, plus a much longer range. It is also not unlikely they will be stood inside a wyldwood for an additional +1 save and all the other issues that gives for an enemy. Hunters with 30" range in wyldwood is a fairly good missile base if pure shooting is what you want.

In other words, yes javelins are very good at missile as that is what it focuses on. But everything else is also good, and maybe even better if you focus on what they overall do rather than just on what the javelins are specialised for.

I still think you have no idea of jevelin at all.
The leader of the team got one more attack in shooting phase and can carry a triden. He alone is a unit of 2A/3+/3+/-1/2D in shooting phase.
If 5 teams of Jevelins (each contain 3 model) focus fire on a 3+ HQ, they can do average 10 damage in one turn and is impossible to block by line of sight. while the same points of treeman hunter (about 2.3 units) can only do 7 damage.
There is almost no other shooting units can make similar output as the jevelin in shooting phase.

Also if you run main jevelin army list (jevelins around 50% of the points), you can have around 6~7 units in 1000 game. They can spread very wide and attack from all direction. If you only have one or two core units (that run very fast and hit very hard) can kill a whole unit of jevelin in one turn, it takes 4~6 turns to wipe them all out. Meanwhile each Jevelin unit can made 3~4 effective wound in each turn.

A mean jevelin list will never ask those guys to charge or do anything brilliant in melee battle. If some of them got engaged, just let it go and they other guys keep shooting.

Yes, but by the same merit, hammers have access to the same types of special weapons, just not ranged. with a 12" move and a 3d6 charge range, it's just about at likely to do some major damage. Add in the axe and hammer prosecutors can better deal with hordes, add in the sword or hammer, and now you have a hard hitting, rending weapon.

I hate the hammer prosecutors, they try to be good at both melee and ranged and end up being terribad at both. Spears all the way.

 Brennonjw wrote:

Aeonotakist wrote:

puree wrote:
Horses for courses as they say.

Hammers beat javelins on damage output hands down. Hammers are decent in melee, javelins are crap. You can still shoot whilst in melee, so you can use your shooting and then your melee. You can shoot then charge. Hammers are not really a focused missile unit, but a fast melee unit that uses its missile ability to augment its fair melee capability, but can stay back for some ranged damage if it suits.

Javelins are very good at shooting when they stay at distance (9" +) , that makes them not so good at shooting whilst in melee, which with the bad melee makes them very bad compared to hammers. It also means they take a bigger risk of failed charge if they hold back to fire at full effect before charging compared to hammers who can close as much as they can (3 dice for both helps a lot, but longer charge distance is still higher chance of fail). Javelins can also suffer from being pushed away from objectives if they want to fire at full effect, where as hammers can fight at full power whilst holding.

javelins are very good if all you are after is a fast missile unit, that doesn't expect to fight in melee or hold something. Although the 18" range is an issue, it leaves them out ranged by a lot of other missile stuff, or more subject to being charged by other melee stuff compared to other longer ranged missile units. But the poor melee and shortish range is what you get for having a fast moving, flying, hard hitting missile attack.

With Juidicators again don't forget that you can shoot even when in melee. That means those crossbows you dismissed are actually quite good, a line of crossbows behind a melee line can fire 3 shots whilst it stands there firing into the melee. If it does get attacked then as long as you do not move (which you can't during the move phase other then retreat) then it will shoot 3 attacks each then melee for 1 more attack, 4 attacks per model is not at all bad, even if they are fairly basic. It puts their damage output into the same ballpark or better as the javelin guys for the same points (bit harder to say how well the special crossbow will perform generically, as it depends on what you are fighting numbers wise). The mortal wounds of the special crossbow is obviously nice, and of course what the Judicators are good at is nuking chaos, rerollings 1's to hit when you only needed 3s is quite nice.


Kurnoth hunters are good at shooting, and pretty tanky in melee with 5 wounds and rerollable saves, compared to 2 wounds and reroll 1s save. They also have a better bravery, plus a much longer range. It is also not unlikely they will be stood inside a wyldwood for an additional +1 save and all the other issues that gives for an enemy. Hunters with 30" range in wyldwood is a fairly good missile base if pure shooting is what you want.

In other words, yes javelins are very good at missile as that is what it focuses on. But everything else is also good, and maybe even better if you focus on what they overall do rather than just on what the javelins are specialised for.

I still think you have no idea of jevelin at all.
The leader of the team got one more attack in shooting phase and can carry a triden. He alone is a unit of 2A/3+/3+/-1/2D in shooting phase.
If 5 teams of Jevelins (each contain 3 model) focus fire on a 3+ HQ, they can do average 10 damage in one turn and is impossible to block by line of sight. while the same points of treeman hunter (about 2.3 units) can only do 7 damage.
There is almost no other shooting units can make similar output as the jevelin in shooting phase.

Also if you run main jevelin army list (jevelins around 50% of the points), you can have around 6~7 units in 1000 game. They can spread very wide and attack from all direction. If you only have one or two core units (that run very fast and hit very hard) can kill a whole unit of jevelin in one turn, it takes 4~6 turns to wipe them all out. Meanwhile each Jevelin unit can made 3~4 effective wound in each turn.

A mean jevelin list will never ask those guys to charge or do anything brilliant in melee battle. If some of them got engaged, just let it go and they other guys keep shooting.

Yes, but by the same merit, hammers have access to the same types of special weapons, just not ranged. with a 12" move and a 3d6 charge range, it's just about at likely to do some major damage. Add in the axe and hammer prosecutors can better deal with hordes, add in the sword or hammer, and now you have a hard hitting, rending weapon.

If you use hammer to shoot and charge with leader carring greatsword/hammer in one turn, it can do 29% more damage then jevelin who just shoot, at the cost of 25% more points. (4,3 vs 5+ save for hammers and 3,3 vs 5+ save for jevelin)

After that, it will become a melee combat, they will be hit back by the enemy. Their 2W plus 4+ will not stand very long time.
Also if the army need a charge and melee to unlease its full potential, block and terrain can work against it. Remember those guys have big wings that eventually they cannot hit one target with 20 guys together, while jevelin can.

Melee and shooting are totally different thing in this game. Their damage cannot be matched.
If a 100 points team can only do average 4,3 damage vs 5+ in melee it already sucks. 100 points of blood reavers can do about 8,6 damage against 5+ with standard buff from general/ HQ.