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Hello! Ive decided to try and make myself a terran army for use in warhammer 40k. I would like to draft up a fair, balanced, fun to play, and flavorful codex. This is the core unit, the Marine so I want to make this entry perfect! Ill be 3d printing masters on a form 2, and casting the rest
Here is the codex entry :

A few notes:
Terran marines are basically regular ol’ prisoners in impressive armor. I thought a guardsman profile was fair.
Stim packs are a cocktail of powerful stimulants that boost the marine’s combat performance, with minor side effects. It’s arguably the most important ability for the marine. For those unfamiliar, stim pack makes the unit move and fire 50% faster, but the unit takes about 20% max hp in damage, but it can never kill the user. Here is my attempt at making a stim pack

Medics are an important part of any marine army, they heal the damage done by stimpack, and have a high hp/per sec heal that is effective in combat.
Combat shields are an upgrade available to marines. In game, it adds 10 HP (base 45) and a large shield. Gameplay-wise, the shields give marines enough health to survive most powerful single target attacks that they would previously die to, but a 10 hp boost also helps survive small arms fire.
Rules wise, this has been the hardest one to decide on. Ive had it boost the armor save from 4+ to 3+, boost the Toughness by 1, or just be a 5++ like SM combat shields. Thoughts?

This is sort of funny, as Starcraft was Blizzard's attempt to do their own version of 40K because GW wouldn't license them for a game...

 Stormonu wrote:
This is sort of funny, as Starcraft was Blizzard's attempt to do their own version of 40K because GW wouldn't license them for a game...

Worked out pretty well for them, I'd say.

I honestly think that the marine gauss rifle would be more powerful than a bolter.

As to the actual rules, I think you'd be pretty spot on to use space marine stats. There used to be rules for stims/combat drugs/frenzon in the older rules, but I'm not near my books to check the old rules.

The medic's shield should probably be a Storm Shield.

Just curious for or the ideas, how would you do a ghost painting a target for a nuke silo?

Same rules as a Space Mrine commander calling down an Orbital Strike - or Tau markerlight calling in a seeker missile. (Ghost stats itself would probably match a Scout (with Sniper Bolter) with camo cloak).

The marine rifle can punch through their power armor

 Bobthehero wrote:
The marine rifle can punch through their power armor

That seems a bit extreme. But it should be better than a bolter.

Martel732 wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
The marine rifle can punch through their power armor

That seems a bit extreme. But it should be better than a bolter.

Perhaps use the statline for a Tau Pulse Rifle?

 Lance845 wrote:
Just curious for or the ideas, how would you do a ghost painting a target for a nuke silo?

Heres what I did. I have not really playtested it yet. But the idea is, it forces the defending player to commit to killing the ghost, or to move, not necessarily deal a lot of damage. I think this is an interesting decision for the defending player to make. I havent really bothered tinkering with the S/AP yet, but honestly, it shoudnt really matter.




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 Stormonu wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
The marine rifle can punch through their power armor

That seems a bit extreme. But it should be better than a bolter.

Perhaps use the statline for a Tau Pulse Rifle?

in my head, A Gauss rifle is decently close to a bolter. I think S5 or high AP would be overkill.

someone did suggest to me making the gun s4 ap5 assault 1, 24" to reflect the "studder step" micro of the marines. When they stim, upping it to assault 2.

 Stormonu wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
The marine rifle can punch through their power armor

That seems a bit extreme. But it should be better than a bolter.

Perhaps use the statline for a Tau Pulse Rifle?

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Terran marines, unlike Astrates, know their role and stick to it. For CC, they use hellbats.

That probably needs to be "One Use Only" , and it should be noted that it's WAAAAY better than a deathstrike when determining point cost.

<Edit> Referring to the Ghost Laser Designator, of course

 thekyle1231 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Just curious for or the ideas, how would you do a ghost painting a target for a nuke silo?

Heres what I did. I have not really playtested it yet. But the idea is, it forces the defending player to commit to killing the ghost, or to move, not necessarily deal a lot of damage. I think this is an interesting decision for the defending player to make. I havent really bothered tinkering with the S/AP yet, but honestly, it shoudnt really matter.

Spoiler:

Laser Designator
Range S AP Type
60” 10/7/5 2/4/6 Heavy 1, Barrage Apoc Blast (10”)

When you fire the Laser designator, place a marker at the target. If the shooter does not suffer a wound before the next shooting phase, the nuke drops at the beginning of your shooting phase. If he does suffer a wound (or dies) the nuke does not drop. The ghost cannot move, shoot any other weapons, or cast any powers other then cloak on the turn he places a marker. The Blast does not scatter.

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 Stormonu wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
The marine rifle can punch through their power armor

That seems a bit extreme. But it should be better than a bolter.

Perhaps use the statline for a Tau Pulse Rifle?

in my head, A Gauss rifle is decently close to a bolter. I think S5 or high AP would be overkill.

someone did suggest to me making the gun s4 ap5 assault 1, 24" to reflect the "studder step" micro of the marines. When they stim, upping it to assault 2.

ROF 1 is completely inappropriate for a weapon with a fire delay of 0.83 seconds in the game.


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 Stormonu wrote:
That probably needs to be "One Use Only" , and it should be noted that it's WAAAAY better than a deathstrike when determining point cost.

It would be apocalyptic STR D blast ignores cover.

Not sure how it will translate tot he tabletop, but either way it's a novel idea.

I'd give them 3+ save as standard...those battle suits are definately better than carapace armour, you only have to look at the bulk of them to tell that.

Now, in SC nukes take a large investment of resources per nuke created, 200mineral/200gas IIRC, Does your Nuke take a points investment to acquire?
50 points seems both to much and too little for such a blast. If i gib your ghost, then its pure waste, if you can fire 2, that is a-lot of extra dead things for 100 points...

Also, per Martel, i think the center of the blast should be S D AP1, followed by S7 AP3 then S4 sp- (to balance upping center to D)

That seems really weak for a nuclear weapon.

Also... in order to balance the gameplay of it, can we shorten the range from 60"? there are a number of factions in the game with no response to something that far away, and would struggle to move out of the way with much terrain on the board.
Not like 30", but maybe 48" or a semi-custom 50", farther than a las-cannon, but maybe a lucky snap shot might take the ghost out?

Not my own tau, but thinking AM/Nids/orks/necrons/CSM,


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Martel732 wrote:
That seems really weak for a nuclear weapon.

the power of shock waves, and radiation incidentally, decrease in power by the square of the distance so an impact at 3M is 1/9 the impact at 1M, and sometimes realism be handed to Khorne for gameplay balance

It is there to punish gunlines and other strong, static units. Like Riptides that cower in the corner and abuse their range.

Martel732 wrote:
It is there to punish gunlines and other strong, static units. Like Riptides that cower in the corner and abuse their range.

OP never stated that as the goal, so let us let him make that call. Also, this isn't a riptide thread, so let's not go off topic, and unless it rolled a 6, its still getting all the saves you hate.

And 50" is plenty of range, its 2" longer than the entire width of the game board. and over have the max corner to corner distance of ~86.5". Even your own blood angels, if they had to try and outrun an apoc blast, many units would have trouble escaping with much if any terrain on the board.

As a non-scattering (unique mechanic given) very high strength blast, should you have to buy ammo, knowing you might not be able to fire it? or do you make the "ghost" expensive, for scout statline? I really like SC, and would love to see a full homebrew for them, but the tac-nuke option represents a top tech tier investment. ghosts were 150/200, and nukes were 200/200. Both more than siege tanks.. so how to we 40k balance it?

It's almost impossible, as ghosts and nukes, like carriers have a temporal cost that serves to balance those units as well. If WK and Riptides had to be teched up to, then it would be my fault as a BA player if I just sat there and let you do it. 40K lets you flop your big Johnson right on the table turn 1. It's very aggravating.

And theKyle did a great job representing that time delay drop of a nuke by incorporating a unique mechanic that I wouldn't argue is inherently under or overpowered versus X armies, but it leaves factions with no response in either speed or firepower to get back at the "ghost".
Other factors can be represented in points, Force Org slots (limited number of elites etc) or forced deepstriking to keep you off the board turn 1.
the deathstike pays heavily for its one shot, and cannot shoot turn 1, this is a modified deathstike missile from 1 perspective. And it also cannot shoot turn 1.
Also, please.. we really do not need to hear about the riptide in this thread. Please make a new one if that's the topic you want to talk about.

I just used it as an example in this case. Insert Imperial Knight if you like.

I don't believe you can ever truly represent temporal costs as points because I can assure that most of my protoss opponents don't get to tech to carrier!

But by making a carrier a LOW, so it can bring only 1, you effectively make it a hero unit, or perhaps a Lord of War?

There is another thread about IK's, and the thread consensus came to 1 IK isn't really that bad, most all comers list can adapt to deal with it barring bad rolling. As a super heavy LOW walker, he can get out of the D fairly easily.

So do you propose do not charge per nuke, and do not make the unit expensive? Vindicare assasin level at 165 points? trade in the vinidcator rifle for a laser designator? 40 poitns, can only take one, with infiltrate, but 1 wound? Or would you rather move on to making the Battlecruiser (though admittedly, that's mostly the Stormfang gunship) perhaps a sci vessel? casts soul blaze on enemy units, can give a FNP to other units (the shield power) removes stealth/shrouded in a bubble?

Charging is fine. The mechanic presented is fine. I'm more interested in the issue of going from a game with temporal cost to a game with zero temporal costs. Are tempests also LoW? What about thors? What about Ultralisks?

Martel732 wrote:
Charging is fine. The mechanic presented is fine. I'm more interested in the issue of going from a game with temporal cost to a game with zero temporal costs. Are tempests also LoW? What about thors? What about Ultralisks?

You can pretty much assume any top tech tree item would generally fall under LOW, Thor is easily an IK, I'd love to say carnifex is like an ultra, but sadly more like Scythed Hierodule. A ghost might be the only exception as a squishy infantry unit with a 2 pop use. And all sides in 40k get to start teched up, generally under 1 focus of tech tree. An IK formation is running 3 Thors, with generally not enough points to put into battlecruiser equivalents.

TheKyle, i like your rendition of the marine and medic combo, a bio-ball from SC1. I think its fluffy, i think it would play just fine. The nuke obviously has some more than needs to be flushed out to satisfy the masses/martel. jet Bikes=vultures, dreadnoughts are goliaths, interested to see you put your spin on the rest.

You are designing the statline wrong. A terran marine is a glass cannon in SC. They should have an imperial gaurd statline but a much better weapon.

Stim packs should double their move speed and rate of fire - just like in the game. The downside? Roll a d6 for each member of the unit - on a roll of a 6 - remove a model randomly from the unit at the end of your turn. Medics could prevent this roll from being made - or allow re-rolls on any 6.

Gauss Rifle - 18" str 4 ap -0 rending, assault 2.

talked to a friend of mine over lunch, and he suggested using the stim packs a "gets hot" roll on shooting and at the resolution of melee (at initiate 0 if you will), to represent the danger of the drugs.
Also said no armor saves, but FNP can be taken. not sure about that on shooting, but melee it makes sense.

From what I can tell, Terran Marine armour does work against their own weapons. It is not impervious but it certainly helps. In fact, in SC2, armour excels against high RoF weapons. Things like Zergling and Marine attacks are ideal things to use armour against.

That's very true as well. Marine gauss rifles are the very definition of wound spam.

 Xenomancers wrote:
You are designing the statline wrong. A terran marine is a glass cannon in SC. They should have an imperial gaurd statline but a much better weapon.

Stim packs should double their move speed and rate of fire - just like in the game. The downside? Roll a d6 for each member of the unit - on a roll of a 6 - remove a model randomly from the unit at the end of your turn. Medics could prevent this roll from being made - or allow re-rolls on any 6.

Gauss Rifle - 18" str 4 ap -0 rending, assault 2.

Thats a good idea for the gun, feels just about right, as it will be assault 3 with stim. 18" works well to balance this out.

Id like to make them more "glass cannon"-y but I cant bear to drop their armor save to 4+. its like saying the CMC-300 (marine armor) is just as good as carapace armor... I just cant justify a 4+


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 pumaman1 wrote:
talked to a friend of mine over lunch, and he suggested using the stim packs a "gets hot" roll on shooting and at the resolution of melee (at initiate 0 if you will), to represent the danger of the drugs.
Also said no armor saves, but FNP can be taken. not sure about that on shooting, but melee it makes sense.

Ooh I havent thought about that... I like the idea of "gets hot." That flows well in game.

My problem is, stim pack (in sc2) can never kill units, I dont like the idea of stiming and losing models, but it is a very good solution otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pumaman1 wrote:
And theKyle did a great job representing that time delay drop of a nuke by incorporating a unique mechanic that I wouldn't argue is inherently under or overpowered versus X armies, but it leaves factions with no response in either speed or firepower to get back at the "ghost".
Other factors can be represented in points, Force Org slots (limited number of elites etc) or forced deepstriking to keep you off the board turn 1.
the deathstike pays heavily for its one shot, and cannot shoot turn 1, this is a modified deathstike missile from 1 perspective. And it also cannot shoot turn 1.
Also, please.. we really do not need to hear about the riptide in this thread. Please make a new one if that's the topic you want to talk about.

Good feedback here! Heres the new profile:


I dropped the range to 36" like you stated. Just like in sc2, this is enough to be barely out of range, but still close enough.
if you were wondering, cloak is basically old night fight (2d6*3) plus shrouded. the designator is a 25 point upgrade currently to a 85 point ghost. I think I will only allow one nuke per army so you cant box your opponent under nukes

The intent wasnt really to "kill stuff" with the nuke (how often does a nuke land in sc2?) but to force the enemy to reposition, or spend a lot of firepower on the ghost. The only thing that will be getting hit should likely be immobilized vehicles.