Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm really digging this formation.

I've tried the Tallyband, and it's "okay"... but it doesn't seem have the 'punch' that I need in my meta.

So, I've been eyeing the warpflame host... particularly the Exalted Flamers on foot.

Anyone have experience with them?

I think the recent FAQ/errata boosted this unit:
Errata: Exalted Flamers

They're now jump infantry (c'mon guys, jetpack Exalted Flamers would be so broken).

So, in a Warpflame host, 8 or 9 of these guys on the table dishing out D3 str 10 ap2 or torrent str 6 ap3 flamer shots ain't nothing to sneeze at and would seem to be great board control.

Plus, this incursion could be built on the cheap:
9x Exalted Flamers
1x base Tz Herald
1x unit of Furies

Clocks in at a mere 530 pts.

Thoughts?

While I won't disagree that making them Jet-pack would make them auto-take units and E.flamer spam would be the new hotness, but having short ranged Heavy weapons makes them useless even with 12" move. If you run them solo, they will just die and the opponent can just stay outside 18" of them and be safe.

However, mixing in a few into some Horror units makes an interesting combo. At most I would run 6 E-flamers and 3 units of Horrors. Put 2 EFs in each unit, deploy forward moving them as far up front as you can while staying in coherency. Remember that the EFs don't actually come with an "official" base, just the 25mm for the Herald and the large oval for the Chariot. So you could easily base them on a small oval base to get more forward movement within the units. Turn 1 they run, Turn 2 the EFs should be far forward enough to be a deterrent, but NOT a true threat, but at least they won't get picked off as easily.

Alternatively you could run either a Shyhost with loads of Screamers for the EFs to join, or run 3+ units of Furies as ablative wounds for the EFs.

-

Interesting...

Too bad there isn't a good way to roll on Biomancy for Endurance with E.Flamers.

Yeah, all Jump-Infantry gives them is the ability to get into a better position for later turns, but that also gives the opponent a turn to move away.

 Galef wrote:
Yeah, all Jump-Infantry gives them is the ability to get into a better position for later turns, but that also gives the opponent a turn to move away.

Well... in my non-tested view on E.Flamers, is that they'd be excellent in board control, or to be used to aggressively push the lines w/ other baddies in your list.

Each E.Flamer is a 36" threat bubble, depending on who you're playing.

I just giggle at the idea that, a warpflame host with spammed E.Flamers + DP + CAD w/ TzChaos Knight... all rushing up...

Who do you ignore? Can't shoot at all them at once...

Focus on DP/TzChaos Knight... you're giving the E.Flamers a chance to get in range...

Shoot at my lone (8 or 9) E.Flamers? Gives my DP/TzChaos Knight a round to "do their things".

Or, I could just steal your idea ( ), move mid table the hounds + unit of E.Flamers + Shrouding DP for some great coversaves.

Granted... I haven't tried any of this yet, so it remains to be seen if it's viable and was curious if anyone has tried something like this.

You dare summon me?

And its no business of yours who I incur =p

 whembly wrote:
Interesting...

Too bad there isn't a good way to roll on Biomancy for Endurance with E.Flamers.

I tried this:
Warpflame Host:
1x 17 Horrors
6x Exalted Flamer
2x 3 Flamers
1x Herald on Disc with Grimoire

5 Furies
Kairos
Tzeentch Daemon Prince (lvl 3)

The idea was this:
Add the Exalted Flamers and the Horror to the unit of Furies, jump them across the board with Endurance, Grimoire and possibly Cursed Earth and mob stuff up.

The problem was:
It's all based on luck...
* I never got the Grimoire off without the reroll and failed it one turn even with the reroll
* I only got one Endurance and it was on Kairos
* I didn't get Cursed Earth
* I only succesfuly cast Endurance twice that game

In the end, the Daemon Prince (had Iron Arm) did most of the heavy lifting.

I wonder if you could fit a Warphost like this in with a Tetrad?
3 DPs rolling Biomancy should get you an Endurance. Join all 9 EFs to a unit of 9 Tz Furies.

Actually, It might be best to run 2 units of Furies in case you roll Endurance twice, so you can split the firepower across 2 units instead of 1.

 Galef wrote:
I wonder if you could fit a Warphost like this in with a Tetrad?
3 DPs rolling Biomancy should get you an Endurance. Join all 9 EFs to a unit of 9 Tz Furies.

Actually, It might be best to run 2 units of Furies in case you roll Endurance twice, so you can split the firepower across 2 units instead of 1.

I like the idea. Not sure if that's really good, but it's a fun one. Anyway, it's a stretch but it can fit in 1850:

The warphost with 9xEF and a basic lvl1 herald on disc (so he's not left behind) comes at 520.
5x Furies are 35.
The following tetrad comes at 1295:
-PD of K, Armor of Scorn, 2x greater 1x lesser
-PD of N, Warp-forged Armor, 2x greater, Psyker3
-PD of S, Warp-forged Armor, 2x greater, Psyker3
-PD of T, Impossible Robe, 2x Greater, Psyker3
Total is 1850.

Gets you one big nasty shooting unit (if you pull of Endurance), and 4 balls of hatred.
It would be really good to give Paradox to the herald (for summoning or prescience), the Tzeentch alignment for the furies and maybe the grimoire. But point-wise, there is almost no wiggle room.

 Galef wrote:
I wonder if you could fit a Warphost like this in with a Tetrad?
3 DPs rolling Biomancy should get you an Endurance. Join all 9 EFs to a unit of 9 Tz Furies.

Actually, It might be best to run 2 units of Furies in case you roll Endurance twice, so you can split the firepower across 2 units instead of 1.

Now we're talking!

Why buy Tz marks for Furies though?? I didn't think it'd be worth it... Couldn't they remain unmarked and still allows EF to join?

An Endurance'ed EF unit essentially gives that unit 30" threat range at full power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RabbitMaster wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I wonder if you could fit a Warphost like this in with a Tetrad?
3 DPs rolling Biomancy should get you an Endurance. Join all 9 EFs to a unit of 9 Tz Furies.

Actually, It might be best to run 2 units of Furies in case you roll Endurance twice, so you can split the firepower across 2 units instead of 1.

I like the idea. Not sure if that's good, but it's a fun one. I mean, it's not Anyway, it's a stretch but it can fit in 1850:

The warphost with 9xEF and a basic lvl1 herald on disc (so he's not left behind) comes at 520.
5x Furies are 35.
The following tetrad comes at 1295:
-PD of K, Armor of Scorn, 2x greater 1x lesser
-PD of N, Warp-forged Armor, 2x greater, Psyker3
-PD of S, Warp-forged Armor, 2x greater, Psyker3
-PD of T, Impossible Robe, 2x Greater, Psyker3
Total is 1850.

Gets you one big nasty shooting unit (if you pull of Endurance), and 4 balls of hatred.
It would be really good to give Paradox to the herald (for summoning or prescience), the Tzeentch alignment for the furies and maybe the grimoire. But point-wise, there is almost no wiggle room.

Niiiiiiice. I have one more DP to assemble to try out the Tetrad.

The Achille's heel would appear to be against MSU armies? At that point, it might be better to simply NOT join the EF in one unit...

Not sure how competitive, but it would be a blast to play.

 whembly wrote:
Why buy Tz marks for Furies though?? I didn't think it'd be worth it... Couldn't they remain unmarked and still allows EF to join?

T alignment is good for the reroll 1 on saves. You have to protect this kind of big expensive unit, and if you manage to boost the invul to 2+ or 3+, then the reroll 1 is super-good.

The issue will be to actually get the boosts.
Fishing for Endurance means you have less attempts to get Cursed Earth or the 4++ in divination, plus it's a WC2 power, so dice hungry during the psychic phase. And if you fit the grimoire, you better pray for that 3+ to pass without Kairos reroll.
The +1invul within 9" warlord trait is awesome, but it's only a 1 in 6 chance per game.

 whembly wrote:
The Achille's heel would appear to be against MSU armies? At that point, it might be better to simply NOT join the EF in one unit...

Not sure how competitive, but it would be a blast to play.

Biggest drawback is not having hit'n'run. If your big nasty ball of magical flames is tied up in combat, you pretty much loose 555pts. No more shooting, and since they're not good in close combat, they will likely either die or get stuck there for eternity (if you can 2++ them reliably).
You can rescue them with the princes if they're nearby, but you'll loose precious time and at least one shooting phase.

After that, like all Tetrad list, if you lose a prince early on, things tend to get nasty real quick.
And objective holding will be a pain too with only 5 units. Sure you can split some models but that's risky for them. The corruption helps though.

The reason I would mark the Furies is to capitalize on any Invul bonuses that you might acquire. If doing the Tetrad and you roll the +1 invul trait, all TZ units within 9" of any prince get +1 invul. Since the Furies are spare wounds, wouldn't you want them to count? Plus, Daemon of Tzeentch is the cheapest upgrade for Furies, so why not?

For the Tetrad list, you couls always dropp the Armour on the N & S DPs. Nurgle has a 2+ Jink and Slaanesh should be Flying most turns. Plus it helps against Grav-spam.
Tactically you should roll 1 princes at a time until you get Endurance, then try for Invis/Shrouding.
Worse case scenario is that you have to roll Divination for the Herald to get Prescience, but I can't think of any unit that could survive 9D3 str10 shots that are twin-linked, even snap-firing for 1 turn. And that Wall of Death is terrifying.

-

 Galef wrote:
I wonder if you could fit a Warphost like this in with a Tetrad?
3 DPs rolling Biomancy should get you an Endurance. Join all 9 EFs to a unit of 9 Tz Furies.

Actually, It might be best to run 2 units of Furies in case you roll Endurance twice, so you can split the firepower across 2 units instead of 1.

I have played this at 2500pts, I took the tetrad, warpflame host, 2x D-Thirsters and Furies.
I managed to roll endurance for the Flamers and Iron arm for the Slaanesh, it is pretty devistating to have 9xD3 S10 Ap2 shots as well as 2d6 S10 shots; gives your army a lot of ranged (12/24" movement plus 12/18" weapon range) support and makes taking down flyers a lot easier. With the tetrad + warpflame I would say Biomancy and Daemonology are the only two must roll ons, if you have any more ML then grab psychic shriek.

It also might be a good idea to deep strike the Ex. Flamers behind the enemy lines to hit rear army and threaton units whilst the rest of your army flies up; they can get their shots off and quite easily survive with 4++ (cursed earth), FnP(4+) (Endurance) and 2W per model (instant death not working of course because of Endurance ). They aren't a push over in cc either.

I don't have the supplement, but the Crimson Slaughter relic Prophet of the Voices, does it only allow the sorc to join possessed units? Or, is it something like if you field possessed, then this sorc MUST join the possessed??

The bearer of the Prophet of the Voices can only join Crimson Slaughter Possessed. And the only unit he can join is a Crimson Slaughter Possessed. Crimson Slaughter Possessed shall be the only unit he can join. Not any Possessed of any other kind other than the Crimson Slaughter kind. Not any other unit.

If I can only drive automatic, that doesn't mean I can drive stick if the only car available is stick-shift.

WangoFett wrote:
The bearer of the Prophet of the Voices can only join Crimson Slaughter Possessed. And the only unit he can join is a Crimson Slaughter Possessed. Crimson Slaughter Possessed shall be the only unit he can join. Not any Possessed of any other kind other than the Crimson Slaughter kind. Not any other unit.

If I can only drive automatic, that doesn't mean I can drive stick if the only car available is stick-shift.

Well... that's a pisser.

Back to theory hammering adding the Cabal (maybe I'll try modeling as "the four horsemen")

The EFlamers are a surprising amount of firepower tbh. I am currently running 9 attached to a screamerstar. Jumping forward with Grim/Cursed Earth on them, and into a central positon. 9d3 shots with prescience WILL get you some hits, and when you have that central position everything must run from you or get slaughtered. Their overwatch is also stunningly brutal to witness. Fatey gets a Biomancy roll, and a DP or a NHerald is another good way to sneak more Biomancy rolls in there, because getting endurance onto that unit is absolutely disgusting.

Oh shot I hadn't thought of attaching them to a Screamer Star. Must try this immediately

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Oh shot I hadn't thought of attaching them to a Screamer Star. Must try this immediately

It's honestly... glorious. The new Jump Pack ruling from the faq is massive for the EFlamers. Killed two Dreadknights and forced a Paladin star to stay 19" away from my screamers in a game the other day, was hugely impressed by them. Had commanding field position and on turn 5 jumped all of the Flamer into a Pink Horror squad so the screamers could launch an assault to contest the last objective.

Well, I guess I'll be trying this tonight. I was trying to figure out a way to get my Tetrad + Tallyband from 1850 to 2000pts, but I just couldn't. So I'm scrapping the Tallyband for a 9 E-flamer Warpflame host + 2 untis of Tz Furies.
I'll be palying against Wolves (no idea what he's bringing and it could literally be anything from TWC to MEQ spam, Dread spam or a mix)
The plan will be to have some of the EFs join the 2 units of Furies (no sense in putting all my eggs in 1 basket), maybe 1-2 just deployed in cover since he will probably have units that want to get close. I'll be rolling at least 2 Princes on Biomancy, or all 3 if I don't get Endurance from the first 2. Lv3 Herald on Disc with Paradox will roll twice on Malefic. If I get Incursion and/or Curse Earth, I'll move onto Divination for Prescience.

 Galef wrote:
Well, I guess I'll be trying this tonight. I was trying to figure out a way to get my Tetrad + Tallyband from 1850 to 2000pts, but I just couldn't. So I'm scrapping the Tallyband for a 9 E-flamer Warpflame host + 2 untis of Tz Furies.
I'll be palying against Wolves (no idea what he's bringing and it could literally be anything from TWC to MEQ spam, Dread spam or a mix)
The plan will be to have some of the EFs join the 2 units of Furies (no sense in putting all my eggs in 1 basket), maybe 1-2 just deployed in cover since he will probably have units that want to get close. I'll be rolling at least 2 Princes on Biomancy, or all 3 if I don't get Endurance from the first 2. Lv3 Herald on Disc with Paradox will roll twice on Malefic. If I get Incursion and/or Curse Earth, I'll move onto Divination for Prescience.

Good deal... let us know how it performs.

Next on my growing docket of lists to try:

- Warpflame host

Herald: ML3, Disc, Paradox, Locus of Conjuration

7x Exalted Flamers

11 Horrors
10 Horrors

Fateweaver

LoC: ML3, Impossible Robes, 2x Greater, Lesser

Furies

CAD

Herald: ML3, Disc, Grimoire

3 Nurglings
11 Horrors

7 Screamers

Looks super fun to play and with the recent draft FAQ I think It has the tools it needs to compete

Well my game was a complete disaster! I conceded turn 2

My opponent was using 9, yes, NINE SW Dreadnaughts and a Castigator Knight. At first I was like "Crap, this game is not gonna go well" but then I thought " This SHOULD be ideal for my list since all the E-flamers have str 10 AP2 shots, and he has to get close". Then I started rolling my gifts and 3 of my Princes rolled the str8 AP1 Lance. Sweet!
However my WL trait was mother ^%^$@%$* soulbliaze! So really I had no WL trait in a formation in which all of them should have had some kind of boost.
I also failed to roll Cursed Earth with anyone, nor did I get Incursion with the Paradox Herald. Have of my Psychic powers could not effect AV12 at all

So yeah, it was a mixed start. The best thing I rolled was Endurance on the Slaanesh Prince. I though that was enough to obliterated some Dreads.

I am not sure if I was too tired or too frazzled by my bad rolling, or just plain not experienced with such short ranged weapons, but after 2 whole turns and going first, I failed to kill a single unit, while losing the Slaanesh Prince and having the big unit of E-Flamer get charged by the Knight, effectively taking 6 of my Flamers and my Herald out of the game.
I stayed on the ground turn 1, thinking that I would be able to charge some Dreads that had to drop, but they managed to get right out of my range AND out of LOS of my Flamers that would have had range.
I should have deployed all the EFs separately and spread out in cover so that no matter where he landed, he wouldn't be able to kill/avoid all the EFs. Then I could have later joined them up, cast Endurance to move and destroy the Knight later.
I should have kept the Slaanesh Prince in the air and kept all the other princes in my Deployment zone, but it is just too hard to resist rushing forward, especially in Maelstrom games

I would like to retry this game sometime, but I was very disappointed with this list against a non-Toughness army.

-

My biggest problem with this setup is still: randomness.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Next on my growing docket of lists to try:

- Warpflame host

Herald: ML3, Disc, Paradox, Locus of Conjuration

7x Exalted Flamers

11 Horrors
10 Horrors

Fateweaver

LoC: ML3, Impossible Robes, 2x Greater, Lesser

Furies

CAD

Herald: ML3, Disc, Grimoire

3 Nurglings
11 Horrors

7 Screamers

Looks super fun to play and with the recent draft FAQ I think It has the tools it needs to compete

That's actually super close to my current list. I basically drop the two horror squads in the Warpflame host for an 8th and 9th EFlamer, and then add the Masque and Flier ace to the Lord of Change. I also have to drop the Locus off the Tzerald sadly, although I love the idea.

 Galef wrote:
Well my game was a complete disaster! I conceded turn 2

My opponent was using 9, yes, NINE SW Dreadnaughts and a Castigator Knight. At first I was like "Crap, this game is not gonna go well" but then I thought " This SHOULD be ideal for my list since all the E-flamers have str 10 AP2 shots, and he has to get close". Then I started rolling my gifts and 3 of my Princes rolled the str8 AP1 Lance. Sweet!
However my WL trait was mother ^%^$@%$* soulbliaze! So really I had no WL trait in a formation in which all of them should have had some kind of boost.
I also failed to roll Cursed Earth with anyone, nor did I get Incursion with the Paradox Herald. Have of my Psychic powers could not effect AV12 at all

So yeah, it was a mixed start. The best thing I rolled was Endurance on the Slaanesh Prince. I though that was enough to obliterated some Dreads.

I am not sure if I was too tired or too frazzled by my bad rolling, or just plain not experienced with such short ranged weapons, but after 2 whole turns and going first, I failed to kill a single unit, while losing the Slaanesh Prince and having the big unit of E-Flamer get charged by the Knight, effectively taking 6 of my Flamers and my Herald out of the game.
I stayed on the ground turn 1, thinking that I would be able to charge some Dreads that had to drop, but they managed to get right out of my range AND out of LOS of my Flamers that would have had range.
I should have deployed all the EFs separately and spread out in cover so that no matter where he landed, he wouldn't be able to kill/avoid all the EFs. Then I could have later joined them up, cast Endurance to move and destroy the Knight later.
I should have kept the Slaanesh Prince in the air and kept all the other princes in my Deployment zone, but it is just too hard to resist rushing forward, especially in Maelstrom games

I would like to retry this game sometime, but I was very disappointed with this list against a non-Toughness army.

-

Thanks for mini-battle rep...

EFlamer's solo'ed or in a unit at the beginning of the game is something we'd have to strategically determine.... I suspect, going first you can start the EFlamers in 1 or 2 units, but going 2nd... I can certainly see value in spreading out the EF individually.

Yeah, I think I could have done much better, but after playing Daemons for as long as I have, I'm hard-wired to move forward quickly. That left room for him to drop pods in my back filed and hide behind those pods. In this game, I should have played defensively. If all my EFs were spread over my center of my deployment and my DP stayed close, there would have been no where safe for the pods to drop, allowing me to deal with them as they drop, rather than being split up. I didn't get a single DP in combat that game because it would have meant being counter assaulted by 2-3 other Dreads
I think I need to treat the EFs that same way I treat the Nurglings in a Tallyband: cheap objective corruptors. The only difference is that EFs move faster and can do damage if needed.

An Idea I have been playing with is to have all the EFs spread out, but still be attached to a unit of Furies or Horrors. Make sure the EFs are at least 2.5" from each other. Turn 2, the unit moves away, but the EF stay where they are. Now they are all separate and didn't have to move to do so. Bonus points if Grimoire went off on the unit before you separated.

Which leads me to ask: What is better for the Herald of the Warp host? Paradox or Grimiore?

-

 jifel wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Next on my growing docket of lists to try:

- Warpflame host

Herald: ML3, Disc, Paradox, Locus of Conjuration

7x Exalted Flamers

11 Horrors
10 Horrors

Fateweaver

LoC: ML3, Impossible Robes, 2x Greater, Lesser

Furies

CAD

Herald: ML3, Disc, Grimoire

3 Nurglings
11 Horrors

7 Screamers

Looks super fun to play and with the recent draft FAQ I think It has the tools it needs to compete

That's actually super close to my current list. I basically drop the two horror squads in the Warpflame host for an 8th and 9th EFlamer, and then add the Masque and Flier ace to the Lord of Change. I also have to drop the Locus off the Tzerald sadly, although I love the idea.

The Masque could be a good call indeed. I think I'd keep the locus over fighter ace however. It's a theory thing for me so you may know better but that much S7 dakka seems hard to pass up especially when supported by paradox

Bad luck on those psychic roles :(
Personally I find the tetrad can only deal with tank armies at 2500pts when you can add in a couple of D-thirsters.

As for what to give the Herald, personally I never use Grimoire; I will pray to the dark gods to protect my units but never the RNG gods.

 Galef wrote:


An Idea I have been playing with is to have all the EFs spread out, but still be attached to a unit of Furies or Horrors. Make sure the EFs are at least 2.5" from each other. Turn 2, the unit moves away, but the EF stay where they are. Now they are all separate and didn't have to move to do so. Bonus points if Grimoire went off on the unit before you separated.

Which leads me to ask: What is better for the Herald of the Warp host? Paradox or Grimiore?

-

I've been pondering the exact same thing but wasn't sure if they retained the benefit of the Grimoire after leaving the unit. If so sweet! I was planning on having them all bunkered up with a Screamer Star and advancing 12" to midfield turn 1. Turn 2, Grimoire the whole shebang again, but the Screamers move off leaving you with a lot of very durable turrets in position to blast things. Could you, theoretically, in the same turn that the screamers left, move a unit of Horrors horrors in range to join one or more of them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also yeah definitely paradox over Grimoire unless you've got Fateweaver. Far too unreliable without the reroll