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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?

The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.

The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.

And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?

The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.

The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.

And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.

I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.

Does anyone know if the vanguard vets datasheet was updated? currently blood angels VV pay 15 points for power weapons vs 5 points for the codex:SM version.

BeeCee wrote:
Does anyone know if the vanguard vets datasheet was updated? currently blood angels VV pay 15 points for power weapons vs 5 points for the codex:SM version.

It doesn't appear so. So, unless the new BA Wargear sheet (which hasn't been revealed) did an adjustment to the costs of Melee Weapons, they still pay 10 points more than anyone else.

From the looks of it, no Assault Marines Troops. The Forces of the Blood Angels image only says to use the new Datasheet. The new Datasheet makes no mention of an ability to be used as Troops. Seriously lame.

Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.

diepotato47 wrote:
Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.

It was wishlisting. But this would have been a great opportunity for them to do it.

Hmmm a core formation for a formation being literally worthless? Reminds me of the Orckurian.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Hmmm a core formation for a formation being literally worthless? Reminds me of the Orckurian.

But does the Orkurion have literally redundant formation benefits?

Yes. In fact I believe the Detachment bonus is better than the Core Formation bonus (Detachment gives Waaagh! every turn including the first while the Core Formation gives Waaagh! every turn except the first).

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.

It was wishlisting. But this would have been a great opportunity for them to do it.

Since troop choices are supposed to be core of army and core of space marines(yes even blood angels) are tactical marines and scouts...

Assault marines fluff wise SHOULDN'T be troop. They aren't what form mainstay of blood angels.

And if anyone needs comfort after not recieving free transports, remember Shield of Baal gave us a formation with combi-weapons on a Sternguard Squad and free a Lightning Claw or Power Weapon on two Vanguard Squads, with a Stormraven. That's far more useful than a few free Rhinos


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, it is entirely true that Tactical Marines are the core of Blood Angels. They follow the codex with soem adjustments to suit their flaw (Death Company) and traditions (Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priests) not to spam Assault Marines

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.

It was wishlisting. But this would have been a great opportunity for them to do it.

Since troop choices are supposed to be core of army and core of space marines(yes even blood angels) are tactical marines and scouts...

Assault marines fluff wise SHOULDN'T be troop. They aren't what form mainstay of blood angels.

That isn't how the fluff describes it at all. Rather than becoming Devastators once becoming a Battle Brother, Blood Angels are immediately made Assault Marines. They also maintain proficiency in Jump Packs for their entire career. Even their ground troops have a tendency to favor close combat and special weaponry over heavy weapons. This is why Assault Marines as Troops makes sense. They have nearly all the options of Tactical Marines, and without their Jump Packs, are functionally quite similar to Tactical Marines, just with the more Blood Angels-appropriate BP and CCW loadout.

The death company formation is actually pretty cool. Supported by the orbital intervention and scouting predators it's actually pretty goodl as well, and fluffy. I wish it could be backed up by devestators tho. Unless there is a way and I've missed it? No free transports sucks as it just means if you want to play battle company style there is no reason not to have a gladius strike force backed up by whatever BA formation you want to play,

Despite the order in which they train their skills, a Battle Company still only keeps two Assault Squads, and has six Tactical Squads

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
Assault Marines not being troops has not been an option since the latest edition dropped, and was highly unlikely to become so with this latest update. That was just wishlisting.

It was wishlisting. But this would have been a great opportunity for them to do it.

Since troop choices are supposed to be core of army and core of space marines(yes even blood angels) are tactical marines and scouts...

Assault marines fluff wise SHOULDN'T be troop. They aren't what form mainstay of blood angels.

That isn't how the fluff describes it at all. Rather than becoming Devastators once becoming a Battle Brother, Blood Angels are immediately made Assault Marines. They also maintain proficiency in Jump Packs for their entire career. Even their ground troops have a tendency to favor close combat and special weaponry over heavy weapons. This is why Assault Marines as Troops makes sense. They have nearly all the options of Tactical Marines, and without their Jump Packs, are functionally quite similar to Tactical Marines, just with the more Blood Angels-appropriate BP and CCW loadout.

Look at the chapter composition. Battle companies(that do most of the job). 6 tac squad, 2 assault squad, 2 dev squads

*looks over new BA options*

My be so cool to play a PC army, rather than an NPC army like Chaos. *sigh*

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
That isn't how the fluff describes it at all. Rather than becoming Devastators once becoming a Battle Brother, Blood Angels are immediately made Assault Marines. They also maintain proficiency in Jump Packs for their entire career. Even their ground troops have a tendency to favor close combat and special weaponry over heavy weapons. This is why Assault Marines as Troops makes sense. They have nearly all the options of Tactical Marines, and without their Jump Packs, are functionally quite similar to Tactical Marines, just with the more Blood Angels-appropriate BP and CCW loadout.

Doesn't the fluff also describe BA's as a Codex Chapter? That alone is why Assault Marines shouldn't be troops.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?

The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.

The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.

And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.

I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.

No, that is what a badly translated document 'suggests' our bonus is. You have no idea what it is, and claiming otherwise makes you a liar.

As I said, when the Space Marine and Dark Angel codex were released the community did a complete double take. It's been agreed that the super formations are damaging to the games balance, and that 40k players do not want MORE of them in their game.
Except for Chaos and Blood Angels. Chaos and Blood Angels need them, says the community.
GW tries to appeal to the community with less than powerful super formations.
You all complain anyways. You're literally hopeless.
It just never seems to end. Remember, until you see actual pictures, in a language you comprehend, it isn't fact, and the sky isn't falling.


Also, the Standard battle company for a Blood Angel force is 6 Tactical Squads, and 2 each of the Devastator and Assault squads. While Blood Angels do have a talent for close combat, they aren't pure berzerkers, and still understand the benefit of ranged warfare. Hence, they fight just like other codex marines, just a little harder in Close Quarters.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Doesn't the fluff also describe BA's as a Codex Chapter? That alone is why Assault Marines shouldn't be troops.

So then why are bikes allowed for Troops in C:SM? Are bike squads drawn from Tactical Squads or Assault Marine Squads (hint hint: in the BDC, what can bikes be swapped for?). It is literally doing the same thing, only with a different Assault Marine(not the datasheet but the designation) profile.

Strange that most of the other marine armies that follow the 'codex' seem to find enough bikes to field them as troops but everyone gets annoyed when blood angels players just want to use their sub standard assault marines in the same fashion :/

Bikes are allowed for White Scars only, as for the fluff reason, who knows, I don't keep up with their fluff. And to counter your point, by your logic if Assault Marines were Troops for Blood Angels, Bikes and Land Speeders would be Troops too.

It's not the way the army works and it's as simple as that, if you want to run an all Assault Marine army, there's unbound lists, or the Flesh Tearers Strike Force

Anyone know if terminators are still more expensive than the vanilla ones?

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?

The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.

The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.

And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.

I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.

No, that is what a badly translated document 'suggests' our bonus is. You have no idea what it is, and claiming otherwise makes you a liar.

It isn't badly translated. I have images of the formations. The bonuses for the BDC and the Angel's Blade are literally the same thing. I don't need to be able to speak French to realize the same phrase is being used twice. The bonuses for Angels Blade are La Vertu de l'Ange, La Soif Rouge, and Les Fils de Sanguinius. The Battle Demi-Company's bonuses are La Vertu de l'Ange and La Soif Rouge, with unchanged wording.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thud wrote:
Anyone know if terminators are still more expensive than the vanilla ones?

They are. Their Datasheet did not change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

diepotato47 wrote:
Bikes are allowed for White Scars only, as for the fluff reason, who knows, I don't keep up with their fluff. And to counter your point, by your logic if Assault Marines were Troops for Blood Angels, Bikes and Land Speeders would be Troops too.

It's not the way the army works and it's as simple as that, if you want to run an all Assault Marine army, there's unbound lists, or the Flesh Tearers Strike Force

They aren't White Scars only, it is every single C:SM Chapter.

Bikes as troops choices, I should say. Otherwise they are Fast Attack

diepotato47 wrote:
Bikes as troops choices, I should say. Otherwise they are Fast Attack

And every single Codex: Space Marines chapter can use Bikes as Troops, not just White Scars. Read the frickin' book.

My bad, I was thinking of the old book.

diepotato47 wrote:
My bad, I was thinking of the old book.

It hasn't been that way for two editions. Bikes are even easier to field than they ever have. All you need is a Bike HQ of any type, and you can use Bikes as Troops. I don't think it would be too game breaking to allow Assault Marines as Troops. Assault Marines are inferior to Bikes in every way.

So by that logic if it's not game breaking, then C:SM should field Assault Marines as troops too if the Captain has a Jump Pack.

diepotato47 wrote:
And if anyone needs comfort after not recieving free transports, remember Shield of Baal gave us a formation with combi-weapons on a Sternguard Squad and free a Lightning Claw or Power Weapon on two Vanguard Squads, with a Stormraven. That's far more useful than a few free Rhinos

It's also a huge point sink to buy those units (without going minimum size making them too easy to kill), which limits any kind of support they get. That makes this choice fragile and crumbles to pieces once it takes damage.

Basically if you want to field a fast blood Angels army, field a red white scars army. The problem here isn't that the formations are bad (apart from the battle company one - that sucks by any comparison) it's that they aren't 300 free points. Which is actually a good thing! Just not until the 300 free points go away

diepotato47 wrote:
So by that logic if it's not game breaking, then C:SM should field Assault Marines as troops too if the Captain has a Jump Pack.

No, this is just giving a similar option to Blood Angels in exchange for not being able to field a buttload of Bikes. BA don't get Bike Troops, they would have Assault Marine Troops. C:SM would keep Bike Troops. 1:1 exchange.