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Wait... does the DLost Brotherhood detatchment require TWO chaplains? One command and one in the formation?

Here's my 1850 for the DC Detatchment.
Remember the Deathcurion is 1+core, 1 command, 0-5 auxiliary

Command:
DC chaplain

Core: Death Company Strike Force
DC chaplain w/ relic crozius
DC dread w/ talons, meltagun/HFL
DC x5, jump packs, BP/CCW x5
DC x5, jump packs, BP/CCW x5
DC x10, jump packs, BP/CCW x4, InfP/CCWx2, BP/PWx2, PF/BGx2

Auxiliary:
Lucifer Armor
Techmarin: servo-harness, BP/ CCW
Baal predator squad: 3x w/ flamestorm
Predator:1x Autocannon
Predator: 1x Autocannon
Redeemer: Extra Armour

Comes to 1850 even.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Wait... does the DLost Brotherhood detatchment require TWO chaplains? One command and one in the formation?

Yes it does. Which is kind of strange, but whatever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StarHunter25 wrote:
Here's my 1850 for the DC Detatchment.
Remember the Deathcurion is 1+core, 1 command, 0-5 auxiliary

Command:
DC chaplain

Core: Death Company Strike Force
DC chaplain w/ relic crozius
DC dread w/ talons, meltagun/HFL
DC x5, jump packs, BP/CCW x5
DC x5, jump packs, BP/CCW x5
DC x10, jump packs, BP/CCW x4, InfP/CCWx2, BP/PWx2, PF/BGx2

Auxiliary:
Lucifer Armor
Techmarin: servo-harness, BP/ CCW
Baal predator squad: 3x w/ flamestorm
Predator:1x Autocannon
Predator: 1x Autocannon
Redeemer: Extra Armour

Comes to 1850 even.

wow, your ten man DC squad is a mess of upgrades. I would dial that back a lot. That way you might be able to buy some upgrades for your Baal predators.

Overall I'd call this sub-par, but not awful. There's some neat options, but other than the grav-cannons, almost all of it involves formations, which really doesn't help when everyone around here has agreed that formations need to die in a fire.

As far as competitive playing goes, it seems the BA got hit again by bad timing and a change of design philosophy. First they got their 7e codex when the philosophy was to write toned-down decently balanced books, and immediately after the design changed to over-the-top formations and mega formations.

Now it seems that after a barrage of high power performers, the philosophy has changed again, favoring toned down formations that are an order of magnitude below the (mostly) 2015 formations, and just in time for a BA book... -_-

It just seems that no one in the rules writing crew gives a damn about BA, and they probably draw straws to see which guy has to waste his time on them. Maybe if they had a guy who likes BA as much as Phil likes his eldar, we might see some decent competitive content.

Silly idea for a 1850 list, for the one that wants to go full slow with the "basic" detachment.


Core: Archangels Demi company
Terminator Captain, storm shield and lightning claw
Furiso x2 frag and pod
Furiso x2 frag and pod
Sternguard x4 combi and pod
Sternguard x4 combi and pod
Sternguard x4 combi and pod
Sternguard x4 combi and pod
Sternguard x4 combi and pod

Command: Leader of the host-sang priest
Command: Leader of the host-sang priest
Command: Leader of the host-sang priest
Command: Leader of the host-sang priest
Command: Leader of the host-sang priest

Auxiliary: Fire Support Force
Devestators x4 lascannon



This list is probably gak, but still could be rather fun. 7 pods mean you got 4 assured drops and 3 more that start rolling on turn 1, so you have a serious alpha punch-and with a priest in every stern group, they won't die quite as quickly afterwards.





On another note-who is this "everyone" who agreed that "formations should die in a fire"?
Formations are awesome. they encourage fluffier armies by making unit combinations matter, they add flavor and give far more variety to army types.
Sure, there are a handful of formations that are pure stupid. but there are far more unit profiles that are pure stupid than there are formations.

So, erm, here's a thought - unless I'm mistaken, Dante's warlord trait ("units in your warlord's detachment...") carries over to the entire Angel's Blade.

Angel's Blade
==========
Golden Host
Dante
2x 5 Sanguinary Guard (4 PW 1 PF)
-
Archangels Demi-Company
TDA Captain (jumps in SG pod)
2x Fragioso w DP
1x 5 Sternguard w DP
4x 5 Vanguard w JP & 4 Inferno/Plasma/Grav Pistols
-
Rapid Assault Force
1x 5 ASM w JP/MG
==========
Inquisitorial Detachment:
Ordo Malleus Inq w 3 Servo Skulls

You can run this (with locator beacons for insurance if nec) at 2k - or drop them, a few pistols, a PF and run one VV bare to get this down to 1850. Rejigging wargear / RAF could get you a priest in there too, perhaps.

ASF special rules have them scattering -1D6, which stacks with both Descent of Angels and the servo skulls (even if DoA doesn't apply, you've still potentially got 6 12" bubbles of no scatter)

Deploy just the inquisitor. Turn one, 2 fragioso drop pods come in automatically, the other (Sternguard + TDA Cap) maybe T1 deffo T2. Decent chance all 4 gunslinging VV also come in (rerolling), with no scatter. Golden Host comes in with -1D6" scatter, or none if within skull range, and can charge. Turn two, ASM arrive (rerolling, -1D6 scatter) to help anyone that's whiffed. SG hit and run if nec, and everything on the board (ASM and INQ aside) charges.

Put the SG into a soft-ish target if you want the charge bonuses for a proper fight in turn two, or have one of the VVs bring grav pistols for a concussed target.

I'm sure this isn't particularly points efficient or competitive, but this idea of being able to deep strike potentially 9 units with minimal/no scatter on turn one is hilarious. Also, as the (mandatory aux) ASM are effectively the 'troop tax' in the formation, our assault marines are troops again!

[edit] not sure about DoA reroll for 3rd DP - I think it's 'all units with deep strike' so might still apply.

How about this STUPID, DUMB IDEA

The Detachment that gives zealot

Command
Golden Host
Dante
3
5x Sang Guard w/ Swords

Core
Archangels Demi Company
Termie Captain w/ SS and Relic Thunder Hammer (OR Karlaen if you are able to swap the Termie Captain out for him)

2x Rip n Tear Furiosos (Blood Talons, Magna Grapples ect)
5x 10 Man Vanguard Vets ALL with 2x Hand Flamers and Jump Packs

Auxilary
Storm Raven Squadron
3x Storm Ravens w/ Lascannons, Multi Melta and Extra Armour


Dunno what it Clocks at, But having 50 Vets DSing with no scatter (Formation Bonus+Dantes warlord Trait) and using 20 Hand Flamers (Per Squad) Is Dirty, Charging a Sanguinary Guard Squad after the Burning just adds to the pain
(I.E have each Vanguard Vet Squad team up with a Sanguinary Guard Squad)
And Stick each Furioso in a Storm Raven, With the Captain Taking up the 3rd

 commander dante wrote:
Dunno what it Clocks at, But having 50 Vets DSing with no scatter (Formation Bonus+Dantes warlord Trait) and using 20 Hand Flamers (Per Squad) Is Dirty, Charging a Sanguinary Guard Squad after the Burning just adds to the pain

Off the top of my head, having done some similar thinking just above, I'd reckon ~3750pts. Still, totally worth it to cover the entire enemy deployment zone in templates.

tkni wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Dunno what it Clocks at, But having 50 Vets DSing with no scatter (Formation Bonus+Dantes warlord Trait) and using 20 Hand Flamers (Per Squad) Is Dirty, Charging a Sanguinary Guard Squad after the Burning just adds to the pain

Off the top of my head, having done some similar thinking just above, I'd reckon ~3750pts. Still, totally worth it to cover the entire enemy deployment zone in templates.

Just worked it out, Adding Locator Beacons to the Storm Ravens makes it a 4250 Point List

Other than our derpy demi company, I REALLY like this update. Will we be top tier with Eldar/Marines/Necrons? Nope. But we'll be solidly middle tier. The death company detatchment gives us a plethora of possibilities for both assault and shooty lists, both of which will be hyper mobile.

Can't believe VV gear is not getting a points drop like the vanilla codex.

WTF GW...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Can't believe VV gear is not getting a points drop like the vanilla codex.

WTF GW...

It's infuriating. Maybe now they have a separate BA VV box, they'll notice how few are sold.

Possibly more so is that, according to the current FAQs, it's impossible, for example, to take a Terminator Captain as the Command option in an Angel's Blade and have them join any of the Terminator squads available in the rest of the detachment without utterly breaking their delivery mechanisms and special rules.

(rules for detachments and formations only apply to models/units that are part of the detachment or formation; formation command benefits applying to 'the unit' do not confer to joined independent characters; units cannot take advantage of many special rules - charge after DS etc - if their IC can't)

So what's the point in having legal single-IC command detachments within an ABSF if they nerf the special rules of any of the other ABSF formations/units they join? Or is *that* why the battle demi-company effectively has no special rules...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Can't believe VV gear is not getting a points drop like the vanilla codex.

WTF GW...

Tomorrow they should be putting up the deathwatch rules up for feedback on Facebook.
If they do you should ask them to clarify if the cost is suppose to be higher for the blood angles VV.
They have stated they are going to answer the additional questions that people asked during the feedback stage.
It's likely the last time people can ask any faq questions until 8th edition releases.

Still not gonna believe that you HAVE to take a command choice for the Lost Company decurion until I see it. If memory serves, no other detachment has that requirement, and taking a 2nd chaplain seems silly.

You really think one Chaplain can control that many madmen?

Makes me glad I have a painted Lemarties and regular Chaplain (though I do need to re-base the model and get a jump pack painted and attached to it.)

Though, I do not relish the thought of painting more death company (Really don't enjoy painting black, truth be told), I do plan on having at least 10 death company to use in larger games, along with a Death Company Dreadnought (normally fielded as Cassor the Damned).

For now I'll keep chipping away at models slowly till I can get my hands on the book this weekend (hopefully) and see what we can see.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red Corsair wrote:
As for the Tau match up, it's still down hill for the marines. The drone net has interceptor, that means pinpoint AP2 pie plates hitting those clustered up SG. T

One expensive solution could be to take the chaos termi detachment along. Kill those drones before they get to intercept.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Other than our derpy demi company, I REALLY like this update. Will we be top tier with Eldar/Marines/Necrons? Nope. But we'll be solidly middle tier. The death company detatchment gives us a plethora of possibilities for both assault and shooty lists, both of which will be hyper mobile.

Yeah, I'm okay with a solid, middle tear army at this point, with at least some interesting things to try out, and use for models that otherwise collect dust. Nice that my Death Company models got a little more useful -- and I have a ton more I can paint. I have some chaplains I've wanted to paint anyhow, and I have a bazillion terminators I can build, too. And Furiosos!

I just realized that I have two Jump Pack Chaplains. The Winged Nipple Armor one and the Finecast one. So if I wanted to run the Lost Brotherhood, I probably could.

I wonder how the Ancients formation will play out. Dreadnoughts are bad, but Librarian Dreadnoughts are...weird. Especially if they get access to the same shenanigans as regular librarians in a BA army now.

Also the Archangels officially stole the Terminator schtick from Deathwing.

The Armoured formation could be hilarious; imagine a bunch of cheap preds running in circles shooting the crap out of everything. I don't see it as that competitive (considering Preds are only a smidge more durable than dreads) but it could be funny.

Lastly I'm kinda bothered that the Golden Host is 2-5 rather than 2-6, since if I remember someone mentioned there were only 30 Sanguinary Guards from the chapter in the fluff. With the formation as-is, you can field up to 50 Sanguinary guards in the same army (one led by dante one led by the Sanguinor)

Well remember in the latest codex you can up the number of models in your sang. guard squads to 10 man. so you can actually get 50 in one formation.

Any word on if they can take contemptors, and the new terminator captains?

Personally I feel that in the ITC, the new grenade ruling combined with the bonus attacks really give dreads a solid boost.

...So basically you can have 100 Sang Guard led by two chapter heroes while in the same detachment as the Archangels.

And people thought the DAs had a disproportionate amount of veterans.

 Leth wrote:
Any word on if they can take contemptors, and the new terminator captains?

Personally I feel that in the ITC, the new grenade ruling combined with the bonus attacks really give dreads a solid boost.

Nope. No Contemptors or Cataphractii Armor on Captains.

Is it just my impression or the archangels orbital intervention force isn't as good as I thought?

If you don't take the demi-company, these guys will scatter 2D6 and might be unable to charge. Moreover, the formation itself costs 600 points flat and you roll a single dice for reserve. If you are really unlucky you won't see this unit until turn 4 and as blood angels are already a very very expensive army, the game might end before they even make it to the battlefield. Moreover, I think it just sucks that you pay 5 more points for furious charge but this bonus gets shut down during the first round of combat if you manage to charge something after the DS.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Lastly I'm kinda bothered that the Golden Host is 2-5 rather than 2-6, since if I remember someone mentioned there were only 30 Sanguinary Guards from the chapter in the fluff. With the formation as-is, you can field up to 50 Sanguinary guards in the same army (one led by dante one led by the Sanguinor)

So ability to field 60 with one formation is better?-)

Not that it really matters since you can spam same formations forever so there's no upper limit anyway.

tneva82 wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Lastly I'm kinda bothered that the Golden Host is 2-5 rather than 2-6, since if I remember someone mentioned there were only 30 Sanguinary Guards from the chapter in the fluff. With the formation as-is, you can field up to 50 Sanguinary guards in the same army (one led by dante one led by the Sanguinor)

So ability to field 60 with one formation is better?-)

Not that it really matters since you can spam same formations forever so there's no upper limit anyway.

Not this one. If the rumor is true it has to be led by a Unique Character. Since it only gives you a choice of two, you can only ever have 2 of these formations.

I wasn't aware that Sang Guards got an update that lets them up their numbers. Still though that means there's a whopping 100 possible Sanguinary Guard fieldable with this formation.

Has this thread addressed the issue regarding bdc formation having same bonuses as the whole detachment? Sounds paradoxal to me although wouldnt be the dummest ruling gw devised.

So after much brainstorming, this is the best list I can come up with that feels semi-competitive if played correctly and pretty well balanced.....
For 2K points....

Baal Striike Force:

Troops:
10x Tactical Marines
Sergant with infernus pistol and melta bombs.
meltagun
heavy flamer
Drop pod with Deathwind ML and Locator Beacon.

10x Tactical Marines
Sergant with infernus pistol and melta bombs
meltagun
heavy flamer
Drop pod with Deathwind ML and Locator Beacon.

Total: 500 points.

Elites:
Furioso Dreadnaught
Frag cannon + Heavy flamer
Drop pod with Locator beacon

Furioso Dreadnaught
Frag cannon + Heavy flamer
Drop pod with Locator beacon

5x Sternguard
3x Combi Grav
2x Combi Melta
Drop pod with Locator Beacon

Total: 555 points

HQ:
Captain Karlean (Warlord)- 160 points
Brother Corbulo - 120 points

Total: 280 points


Archangels Orbital Intervention Force:

Squad 1
5x Assault Terminators
2x LC/LC
1x TH/Company Standard
2x TH/SS

Squad 2
5x Assault Terminators
2x TH/SS
3x LC/LC

Squad 3
5x Assault Terminators
3x TH/SS
2X LC/LC

Total: 655 points


Total Army Points: 2000pts

General Strategy:

Karlean and Corbulo ride in the pod with the Sternguard.

Tac marines can be combat squaded to improve targetting effectiveness. (meltas on vehicles, Heavy flamer on infantry)

Locator beacons on all the drop pods allow for accurate DS of the terminators turn 2.

Deathwind missile launchers help reinforce the tac squads.

Sternguard loadout is versatile for dealing with TEQ or Vehicles.

Karlean helps steal initiative and along with corbulo's reroll and Karleans reroll, the reserve roll for the AOIF should help too.....

Every Assault squad having at least two Storm shields gives them some resilience.

They should arrive alongside Corbulo's squad where possible to give them the +1 WS and +1 Initiative from his bubble despite the Disorderedly charge.

1 Company standard may prove helpful with unfortunate morale checks etc.

Frag dreads are there to do what they do best and provide extra locator beacons for improved tactical positioning.....

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Lastly I'm kinda bothered that the Golden Host is 2-5 rather than 2-6, since if I remember someone mentioned there were only 30 Sanguinary Guards from the chapter in the fluff. With the formation as-is, you can field up to 50 Sanguinary guards in the same army (one led by dante one led by the Sanguinor)

So ability to field 60 with one formation is better?-)

Not that it really matters since you can spam same formations forever so there's no upper limit anyway.

Not this one. If the rumor is true it has to be led by a Unique Character. Since it only gives you a choice of two, you can only ever have 2 of these formations.

I wasn't aware that Sang Guards got an update that lets them up their numbers. Still though that means there's a whopping 100 possible Sanguinary Guard fieldable with this formation.

Why do I recall reading somewhere that there are only 29 sanguinary guard in the whole chapter?