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 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at?

It's exactly 100 more points than a generic Space Marine demi-company and people love those.

I think it is a bit uninformed to compare the BA Demi company vs the gladius demi company and put them around the same value. Even if we overlook the free transports which is a mainstay of a gladius space marine list, we also have the fact that a gladius demi-company is objective secured. that alone busts the comparison here. For the blood Angels demi you have more "tax" units and no objective secured. To further add increased cost, all blood angels transports have the overcharged engines so you pay even more for them. You are easily dropping over 1000 points for this formation to make it do anything on the battle field (pods for the dreads, some form of mobility for some of the other units). Otherwise you are looking at 500 points or so for basic non-OS footslogging marines all with boltguns.

I am a big fan of this book but it is in spite of the Blood Angels Demi-company, not because of it. It's because there are some pretty fun/fluffy elements to the Death Company detachments and who doesn't love assault from deep strike Dante and sanguinary guard.

I'm not specifically calling you out on this, yours just happened to be one of the more recent posts comparing the BDC vs the gladius demi company.

swcorwyn wrote:
Unless it's changed, you take either a special weapon or an eviscerator as a special weapon choice.

That's incorrect. The Eviscerator has absolutely no bearing on the number of Special Weapons you can take.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
That's incorrect. The Eviscerator has absolutely no bearing on the number of Special Weapons you can take.

That's how I read it earlier. If you wanted to spend the points, and had a 10 man squad, you could have a sergeant, a pair of meltaguns (or, flamers), and a pair of evicerators. Granted that would make the squad quite a bit more expensive (50 points more) but would allow for two hidden ST:8, AP:2 weapons with armorbane that can't be challenged out, and that each get at least a swing, or a pair of swings on the charge.

Having the jump packs be an upgrade does kind of sting, but 10x jump packs is still 15 points cheaper than a bare bones BA rhino, and 5 points cheaper than a bare bones drop pod at least.

I may push working on an assault squad a little more to the fore soon. Gotta work on some more Death Company first, and get my Dante painted after that. Free time is woefully scarce at the moment but in theory I'll be able to paint more soon. I hope, anyway.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

I have the (English) book in front of me. It reads:

- May include up to five additional space marines
- The entire squad may take jump packs (3pts/model)
- Up to two Space Marines may replace their bolt pistols with one of the following:
----> flamer
----> meltagun or hand flamer
----> plasma gun inferno pistol or plasma pistol
- For every five models in the unit, one model may replace its bolt pistol and chainsword with an eviscerator
- May upgrade the Space Marine Sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant
- The Space Marine Sergeant or Veteran Sergeant may do the following:
----> take items from the melee weapons and/or ranged weapons lists
----> take a combat shield and/or meltabombs
- The unit may select a Drop Pod or Rhino as a Dedicated Transport, unless it has jump packs

the - are bullets and the ---> are the indented dashes.

The cost of the squad has been dropped by the value of 5 jump packs. There is no free Rhino/Pod. Base cost of additional ASM don't cost the value of jump pack. The Eviscerator is the price of 5 flamers. Otherwise, all other costs are the same.

Unrelated, but in case anyone is interested, it reads under "Librarians"

Any Psyker with the Blood Angels Faction can generate their psychic powers from the Librarius Technomancy Fulmination and Geokinesis disciplines, in addition to any other disciplines they have access to.

Huzzah!

Talys, can you verify that the Battle Demi-Company has redundant benefits with the Angel's Blade Strike Force?

Just in case you were wondering, that's exactly the same as how vanilla marines ASM work (sans plasma gun, Meltagun, hand flamer and inferno pistol options that are BA exclusive). They are still ASM though, even with the evicerators and will still get bogged down if you're not careful. Still, it definitely lets them engage hard targets like fortifications, walkers (my skyhammer duo have a few Imperial Knights to their name) and monster where previously they were in a lot of trouble. Also makes sneaking a wound through on a Riptide a bunch easier too.

 Talys wrote:
I have the (English) book in front of me.

So there is no mention about Full company out of 2 demi-company?

I'd like to know if you can add characters to these Formations...

For example the Orbital Intervention Force, can I add a Terminator Librarian?

 Gunzhard wrote:
I'd like to know if you can add characters to these Formations...

For example the Orbital Intervention Force, can I add a Terminator Librarian?

You cannot, per GW's recent FAQs (yes, they're a draft, but c'mon)

 BrokenRecord wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:
I'd like to know if you can add characters to these Formations...

For example the Orbital Intervention Force, can I add a Terminator Librarian?

You cannot, per GW's recent FAQs (yes, they're a draft, but c'mon)

Ahh ok, good enough thanks.

No one posting things on the DC Chaplain?
I at least wanna see a pic or someone Typing out the rules and Upgrades...

BeeCee wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at?

It's exactly 100 more points than a generic Space Marine demi-company and people love those.

I think it is a bit uninformed to compare the BA Demi company vs the gladius demi company and put them around the same value.

So much this. (No offence to original poster) this is before you even consider the utterly redundant benefits of running a Demi company in the strike force. No one will ever use that formation outside of a game where their opponent has agreed to take the worst units of their own codex. I really hope gw gets a lot of FAQs along the lines of, 'hey, just wondering but did you forget to add the free transports bit to the formation data sheet?' Or 'did you mean that there would be no reason to take the ABSF at all ever?'

On the other hand, the death company, terminator and sanguinary guard formations are awesome. What are the ITC / list building rules about just dropping those into an existing counts as space marine army?

 commander dante wrote:
No one posting things on the DC Chaplain?
I at least wanna see a pic or someone Typing out the rules and Upgrades...

Comes with a jump pack and melta pistol for a shade more than the loadout would usually cost, gets Astorath's rule and is afaik the only model that can take the DC relics.

Brutishcard wrote:

BeeCee wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at?

It's exactly 100 more points than a generic Space Marine demi-company and people love those.

I think it is a bit uninformed to compare the BA Demi company vs the gladius demi company and put them around the same value.

So much this. (No offence to original poster) this is before you even consider the utterly redundant benefits of running a Demi company in the strike force. No one will ever use that formation outside of a game where their opponent has agreed to take the worst units of their own codex. I really hope gw gets a lot of FAQs along the lines of, 'hey, just wondering but did you forget to add the free transports bit to the formation data sheet?' Or 'did you mean that there would be no reason to take the ABSF at all ever?'

On the other hand, the death company, terminator and sanguinary guard formations are awesome. What are the ITC / list building rules about just dropping those into an existing counts as space marine army?

Honestly I wouldn't the BA demi costing more for less, IF it opened access to other great formations+detach-benefits, the problem is the cost of the BA demi is so much that you really don't have much room to include anything else in normal games.

 Gunzhard wrote:

Brutishcard wrote:

BeeCee wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at?

It's exactly 100 more points than a generic Space Marine demi-company and people love those.

I think it is a bit uninformed to compare the BA Demi company vs the gladius demi company and put them around the same value.

So much this. (No offence to original poster) this is before you even consider the utterly redundant benefits of running a Demi company in the strike force. No one will ever use that formation outside of a game where their opponent has agreed to take the worst units of their own codex. I really hope gw gets a lot of FAQs along the lines of, 'hey, just wondering but did you forget to add the free transports bit to the formation data sheet?' Or 'did you mean that there would be no reason to take the ABSF at all ever?'

On the other hand, the death company, terminator and sanguinary guard formations are awesome. What are the ITC / list building rules about just dropping those into an existing counts as space marine army?

Honestly I wouldn't the BA demi costing more for less, IF it opened access to other great formations+detach-benefits, the problem is the cost of the BA demi is so much that you really don't have much room to include anything else in normal games.

As opposed to any other Demi-Company?

You have two mandatory options that the others do not have; a Command Squad/Furioso and a Dreadnought.

You do however have cheaper Auxiliaries, if you just want to field the Detachment.

I would be flipping ecstatic if my Raven Guard's "Talon Strike Force" could fulfill its mandatory Auxiliaries slot with a Devastator Squad or Assault Squad.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

Brutishcard wrote:

BeeCee wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at?

It's exactly 100 more points than a generic Space Marine demi-company and people love those.

I think it is a bit uninformed to compare the BA Demi company vs the gladius demi company and put them around the same value.

So much this. (No offence to original poster) this is before you even consider the utterly redundant benefits of running a Demi company in the strike force. No one will ever use that formation outside of a game where their opponent has agreed to take the worst units of their own codex. I really hope gw gets a lot of FAQs along the lines of, 'hey, just wondering but did you forget to add the free transports bit to the formation data sheet?' Or 'did you mean that there would be no reason to take the ABSF at all ever?'

On the other hand, the death company, terminator and sanguinary guard formations are awesome. What are the ITC / list building rules about just dropping those into an existing counts as space marine army?

Honestly I wouldn't the BA demi costing more for less, IF it opened access to other great formations+detach-benefits, the problem is the cost of the BA demi is so much that you really don't have much room to include anything else in normal games.

As opposed to any other Demi-Company?

You have two mandatory options that the others do not have; a Command Squad/Furioso and a Dreadnought.

Yeah except Chapter Tactics means "any other Demi-Company" is all you need for most SM armies... though I've yet to play it but for BA it seems more like a much less useful tax - in order to get to the useful stuff, that you can't really afford because of the tax.

 Gunzhard wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

Brutishcard wrote:

BeeCee wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:

The Core tax on the Angels Blade Detach looks really heavy... I wonder what is the minimum points you could run that at?

It's exactly 100 more points than a generic Space Marine demi-company and people love those.

I think it is a bit uninformed to compare the BA Demi company vs the gladius demi company and put them around the same value.

So much this. (No offence to original poster) this is before you even consider the utterly redundant benefits of running a Demi company in the strike force. No one will ever use that formation outside of a game where their opponent has agreed to take the worst units of their own codex. I really hope gw gets a lot of FAQs along the lines of, 'hey, just wondering but did you forget to add the free transports bit to the formation data sheet?' Or 'did you mean that there would be no reason to take the ABSF at all ever?'

On the other hand, the death company, terminator and sanguinary guard formations are awesome. What are the ITC / list building rules about just dropping those into an existing counts as space marine army?

Honestly I wouldn't the BA demi costing more for less, IF it opened access to other great formations+detach-benefits, the problem is the cost of the BA demi is so much that you really don't have much room to include anything else in normal games.

As opposed to any other Demi-Company?

You have two mandatory options that the others do not have; a Command Squad/Furioso and a Dreadnought.

Yeah except Chapter Tactics means "any other Demi-Company" is all you need for most SM armies... though I've yet to play it but for BA it seems more like a much less useful tax - in order to get to the useful stuff, that you can't really afford because of the tax.

It's a Dreadnought and a Command Squad. Are you really trying to tell me that those two things are breaking the bank for you, coupled with minimum squads in the BDC?

Additionally, Chapter Tactics aren't all they are cracked up to be. Raven Guard's CTs aren't all that amazing, nor is the Talon.

Brutishcard wrote:

BeeCee wrote:

I think it is a bit uninformed to compare the BA Demi company vs the gladius demi company and put them around the same value.

So much this. (No offence to original poster) this is before you even consider the utterly redundant benefits of running a Demi company in the strike force. No one will ever use that formation outside of a game where their opponent has agreed to take the worst units of their own codex.

Yes, because Objective Secured is the sole reason regular Marine demi-companies are amongst the best thing in the game and losing it makes them the worst?

Your histrionics don't impress anyone.

So you're saying I only have to field a Dreadnought and a Command Squad?

No... I have to take 3 NON-OBSec Tactical squads etc etc... no free transports etc, which is fine except - these units are just "filler" in a Blood Angels list, that isn't so much the case for regular SM, where the Demi IS the list.

 Gunzhard wrote:
So you're saying I only have to field a Dreadnought and a Command Squad?

No... I have to take 3 NON-OBSec Tactical squads etc etc... no free transports etc, which is fine except - these units are just "filler" for Blood Angels, that isn't so much the case for regular SM.

You have to take 3 NON-OBSec Tactical Squads which have no model limit(so you can take 5 mans), an Assault Squad/Scout Bike Squad/Bike Squad/Attack Bike Squad/Land Speeder Squad, and a Devastator Squad.

You do know as well that SM Battle Demi-Companies don't just automatically get free transports, right? You have to take a Gladius, and you have to take two Battle Demi-Companies(one with a Chaplain and one with a Captain) in order to unlock free transports.

And that's coupled with having to take an Auxiliary formation as well, of which there is no "single squad" option. They're all multiple squads.

 tkni wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
No one posting things on the DC Chaplain?
I at least wanna see a pic or someone Typing out the rules and Upgrades...

Comes with a jump pack and melta pistol for a shade more than the loadout would usually cost, gets Astorath's rule and is afaik the only model that can take the DC relics.

Reg Chaplains can take the relics via the Command in the DC Detachment

Now is more Customization worth it for no Reroll to wound?

 commander dante wrote:

 tkni wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
No one posting things on the DC Chaplain?
I at least wanna see a pic or someone Typing out the rules and Upgrades...

Comes with a jump pack and melta pistol for a shade more than the loadout would usually cost, gets Astorath's rule and is afaik the only model that can take the DC relics.

Reg Chaplains can take the relics via the Command in the DC Detachment

Now is more Customization worth it for no Reroll to wound?

I can't believe I'm hearing grieving Space Marines players here right now hah... with arguably the second best codex in the game right now. Ok well I'm convinced you must just be an amazing tactician to win with your super nerfed codex.

Look, pretty much everything in the Demi is better for SM with just Chapter Tactics ALONE... forget ObSec and unlocking free-transports (which for SM is entirely beneficial to do)...

The Blood Angels already had the Battle Company "demi" in their codex and it had ObSec at the very least - and yet still most people agreed the Blood Angels codex was one of the weaker out there.

And again I don't even care if it is worse than the SM version which, I'm sorry it IS... the point is that it's so expensive that it prevents you from taking the units that really do benefit from the Blood Angels rules.

 commander dante wrote:

Reg Chaplains can take the relics via the Command in the DC Detachment

You can't take a regular chaplain in the Death Company Command - only Astorath, Lemartes and the DC chaplain.

Shame that fancy armor isnt Artificer, but still not too shabby.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I would be flipping ecstatic if my Raven Guard's "Talon Strike Force" could fulfill its mandatory Auxiliaries slot with a Devastator Squad or Assault Squad.

Would you exchange the mandatory scout squad for a mandatory dreadnought and command squad/furioso?

You're right that your auxiliaries are quite points heavy, but you've reminded me of another annoyance - RG VV get non-disordered charges from deep strike, and BA SG don't....!?!

 Gunzhard wrote:
I'd like to know if you can add characters to these Formations...

For example the Orbital Intervention Force, can I add a Terminator Librarian?

No. The exact text reads:

Formation:
- 3 units chosen in anyh combination from the following list:
- Terminator Squads
- Terminator Assault Squads

BDC reads: 1 Captain or Chaplain
Archangel's Demi-Company reads: 1 Terminator Captain
10th Co. has no command/characters
DC Strike Force reads: 1 DC Chaplain
Golden Host reads: The Sanguinor or Commander Dante
Chapter Ancients reads: 3-5 units chosen from the following list: Librarian Dread, Dread, Furioso Dread
Stormraven Squad has no characters
Lucifer Armored Task Force reads: 1 Techmarine

Detachments:
Deathcurion requires 1 command, command is 1-3 of Astorath, Lemartes, DC Chap; 1+ Core requires 1 DC Chaplain, 0-5 Aux

Regular superdetachment requires: 0-5 command 1+ core 1+ Aux.:
Command: Golden Host, Chapter Ancients, or Leaders of Angelic Host (1 of the following: Term Captain, Tycho, Librarian, Mephiston, Sanguinary Priest, Brother Corbulo), 0-1 Command Squad, 0-1 Stormraven)
Core is BDC or ADC

Most spammy is, as someone else mentioned, you can grab 5 priests as Command.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Omega-soul wrote:

 Talys wrote:
I have the (English) book in front of me.

So there is no mention about Full company out of 2 demi-company?

No, there is not.

Though you could build one out of Army of Sanguinius You can (literally) take as many half companies as you want The bonus is Zealot to half-strength units. Frankly, I think BDC is pretty sucky.

Don't know if it was mentioned before - SR's for vehicles:

Vindicator: 3 Vindi = Linebreaker (all fire together for apoc blast and ignores cover)
Whirlwind: 3 WW = Pinning and Shried
Land Speeder: 3 LS = additional 6" when flat out
Predator: 3 Pred = Killlshot (MH and TH)
Baal Pred = 3 BP = wall of firepower - reroll to wound of 1

No points changes

 maku wrote:

 commander dante wrote:

 tkni wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
No one posting things on the DC Chaplain?
I at least wanna see a pic or someone Typing out the rules and Upgrades...

Comes with a jump pack and melta pistol for a shade more than the loadout would usually cost, gets Astorath's rule and is afaik the only model that can take the DC relics.

Reg Chaplains can take the relics via the Command in the DC Detachment

Now is more Customization worth it for no Reroll to wound?

Eh, Ill see if 10 DC with Boltguns and High Chaplain Thulsa Kane in a Stormraven goes anywhere
Its probably better anyway

Thulsa Kane isn't a Blood Angels character, additionally he only affects models from the base Space Marines Codex and units with the Chapter Tactics: Executioners.

I could have sworn that I saw a listing for a Devestator repack with the Blood Angels sprue, am I just crazy?