Crimson slaughter possessed in Favoured of Chaos formation?

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**mrhappyface**

I think I know the answer to this, but here's hoping!

Is there anyway that the Favoured of Chaos formation can take crimson slaughter possessed? The formation itself does not give any restrictions but one can only aquire crimson slaughter possessed through a crimson slaughter detachement.
Any ideas or loop holes to alow them into this formation?

Thanks

**Roknar**

There is no reason you can't take crimson slaughter for the traitors hate formations, including possessed. The problem with that that specific formation however is that it requires a daemon prince, which aren't allowed in CS.

**mrhappyface**

Roknar wrote:
There is no reason you can't take crimson slaughter for the traitors hate formations, including possessed. The problem with that that specific formation however is that it requires a daemon prince, which aren't allowed in CS.

Why can't DP's be taken in CS?

**Roknar**

The new supplement says that no units may have VotLW and daemon princes come with that by default. Since you can't have any unti with VotLW you also can't have a DP (or índeed any special character), which eliminates that formation.

**mrhappyface**

I thought that it was agreed that the wording "only units that can TAKE VotLW" meant that because a DP already had VotLW not taking it then it was allowed, is this wrong?
Seeing as though some CS artifacts specifically say DP's can't take them RAI seem to be DP's are allowed.

**Kommissar Kel**

Hold. Checking FAQs.

**Ghaz**

mrhappyface wrote:
I thought that it was agreed that the wording "only units that can TAKE VotLW" meant that because a DP already had VotLW not taking it then it was allowed, is this wrong?
Seeing as though some CS artifacts specifically say DP's can't take them RAI seem to be DP's are allowed.

Except it doesn't say 'take'.

No units in a Crimson Slaughter Detachment or Formation can have the Veterans of the Long War special rule except Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines.

**adamsouza**

Can't find the Facebook post at the moment, but GW said no.

**mrhappyface**

I have the book, it says "take" not "have".

I shall hunt for the FAQ and be back shortly!

**Ghaz**

mrhappyface wrote:
I have the book, it says "take" not "have".

I shall hunt for the FAQ and be back shortly!

I quoted directly from the updated supplement released 16 April 2016.

**mrhappyface**

It would seem that Crimson Slaughter has had no FAQ and no errata according to the 40k facebook and GW site.
Strange they didn't do it with the CSM FAQ :/

**Roknar**

You have the old supplement. The new one with formations changed the wording to "have",

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the wording about princes not being able to take certain gear is just GW being lazy and not updating the newest version.

**oldzoggy**

So it can only been done when you own the old supplement?

**Roknar**

I guess, but only if you along with GW's attitude of "Use whatever you want, we don't care". You might run into people who won't allow that.

**nareik**

mrhappyface wrote:
I thought that it was agreed that the wording "only units that can TAKE VotLW" meant that because a DP already had VotLW not taking it then it was allowed, is this wrong?
Seeing as though some CS artifacts specifically say DP's can't take them RAI seem to be DP's are allowed.

Apparently it got changed in the new version of the supplement.

**mrhappyface**

And of course GW have no free amendments to those of us who bought the original, not that they would ever force someone to pay for a product twice...

**Antubis**

If you had a digital edition you can download the new version for free from your account on the black library website.

**mrhappyface**

But allas, I am a simple man who enjoys owning physical copies.

**BomBomHotdog**

My opinion, no.

The page that starts the Forces of the Chaos Space Marines makes it clear, to me, that Traitors Hate interacts with the dataslates from the CSM codex. TH gives updated unit information, new formation options, and new psycic powers that apply to that codex. Any special units (possessed) listed in the CS book would not be able to be used in formation from TH.

Note: I don't own the CS supplement book

**Roknar**

The supplements can turn any CSM detachments or formations into BL/CS formations as well, so it works automagically. Although there might be some limitations. Like not being able to take a daemon prince with CS, which stops them from using that particular formation.

**DaPino**

As someone pointed out to me: even if you could take CS possessed, it wouldn't matter because they only get all 3 effects at the start of the fight sub-phase and they only last until the end of turn.
You don't benefit from the Beast or Shrouded special rules since they won't be automatically activated in your movement phase.

I think GW dropped the ball here pretty hard as they could've changed possessed from a extremely mediocre unit to a very strong unit that functions similar to Wraiths in the Necron codex.

**mrhappyface**

DaPino wrote:
As someone pointed out to me: even if you could take CS possessed, it wouldn't matter because they only get all 3 effects at the start of the fight sub-phase and they only last until the end of turn.
You don't benefit from the Beast or Shrouded special rules since they won't be automatically activated in your movement phase.

I think GW dropped the ball here pretty hard as they could've changed possessed from a extremely mediocre unit to a very strong unit that functions similar to Wraiths in the Necron codex.

Yes, that has been puzzling me. Did GW intend that it last for a full turn when they wrote the CS supplement or did they forget what the original rules were?

**MechaEmperor7000**

I originally wished you could run it as a Crimson Slaughter formation but when all is said and done there's just way, way too many rule conflicts for me to bother.

**gba01**

Hi,

I think you can take Daemon Princes in a Crimson Slaughter Detachment, I just rememberes the rules for the artefact Daemonheart

[b]Daemonheart: 2+ Armor Save and It Will Not Die. Can't be taken by a Daemon Prince

Why should they mention that it can´t be taken for a Damon Prince, if you can´t take Daemon Princes anyway?

Just my opinion.

**Roknar**

Because that's a leftover from the earlier version of the supplement and we all know what GW's position is on copy pasting content with CSM.

**nareik**

gba01 wrote:
Hi,

I think you can take Daemon Princes in a Crimson Slaughter Detachment, I just rememberes the rules for the artefact Daemonheart

[b]Daemonheart: 2+ Armor Save and It Will Not Die. Can't be taken by a Daemon Prince

Why should they mention that it can´t be taken for a Damon Prince, if you can´t take Daemon Princes anyway?

Just my opinion.

The new version just makes no sense.

"You may have no votlw. Except the god cult units. Excluding Thousand Sons."

"You can't have a daemon prince. Especially not one with a Daemonheart! Except maybe you can have a daemon prince if you roll well on the gods table, lol, I don't know!"

It really gets me in to the spirit of being slaves to the voices.

**Galef**

Has anyone tried using the CS Possessed in the formation with just a plain CSM codex DP?
I know that detachments (including formations) must contain units with the same "faction" unless otherwise stated, but what about units from different supplements?
Do Crimson Slaughter & Black Legion unit not count as CSM faction units?
What stops you from fielding a Favoured of Chaos formation with a CSM DP with CSM:CS Possessed, since technically they are all Faction: CSM?

**Roknar**

Well, technically nothing that I know of. The supplement formations are of the chaos space marine FACTION. Not CS, not BL, plain old csm. There is nothing in the supplements that indicates that the units therein change their faction either. The supplement formations have a restriction that say they are a *insert supplement* formation, but really that doesn't mean anything at all. Not only that, there is no restriction like that found in the BRB CAD that says the units need to be of the same faction.

They say that any CSM detchment/formation can be made ALSO into a supplement detachement/formation, but I can't find any rule that describes what that actually does. In fact saying it is both, as is would be the case with TH, I don't really see any reason why you can't take a vanilla DP and CS possessed other than that feeling really weird and rules lawyerish.
Though that's a topic that would be better of in a thread of it's own.

**nareik**

CS and BL are CSM faction, aren't they? So you are saying it blends?

**Galef**

nareik wrote:
CS and BL are CSM faction, aren't they? So you are saying it blends?

That is what I am thinking. Unless CS or BL have some specific rules disallowing it (like you can't mix relics), all units are faction CSM and basically treated as part of the main codex, thus the "supplement" the existing entries.
The only restriction is that the CS only allows certain units to be used for detachments within the CS book. Favoured of Chaos is in the Traitors Hate supplement and uses units from the CSM faction (including CS & BL, that supplement the CSM codex).
I haven't read all the rules, so there may be something I am missing from one of the supplements, but just based on the above, there is no reason that you cannot take CS Possessed along with a CSM DP.