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Are we actually including gods, though? They're basically impossible to quantify.

If we're taking Daemon Primarchs into account it's a no-contest. Magnus wins, then Angron, then Fulgrim and so on and so forth. Alpharius and Omegon might not make the list, nor would Logar and possibly Mortarion (he got his ass handed to him by Draigo in that 'glorious' piece of fluff).

But I think it's more fun to only include currently alive 'mortals' (I.E not Daemons). It's cooler to picture Asurmen vs Lucius then it is to picture Angron scraping Lilth off of his hoof.

Would Asurman count as a "Mortal" though? At this point he's basically a sentient stone in magical armor.

And does that mean all Daemon special characters get shafted along with the primarchs and their gods?

mrfrosty wrote:
Includes: Phoenix Lords, Cypher, crazy Dark Eldar arena peeps, Kharn, major Necron figures, etc.
Basically, if they all go 1-on-1 (then are resurrected) to fight in a round-robin style where everyone fights everyone at least once - who ends up with the most wins?

The Emperor. Or Horus. Both could be a handful in an one on one.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

mrfrosty wrote:
Includes: Phoenix Lords, Cypher, crazy Dark Eldar arena peeps, Kharn, major Necron figures, etc.
Basically, if they all go 1-on-1 (then are resurrected) to fight in a round-robin style where everyone fights everyone at least once - who ends up with the most wins?

The Emperor. Or Horus. Both could be a handful in an one on one.

Depends, pre-demon Horus, or post? A number of the Primarchs would have punk'd Horus, prior to his ascension.

I still like Kharn, hard to imagine him not giving just about anyone a damn good fight to the death.

Do you think Kharn to be better than Lucius ? Did they fight once ?

Kharn hasn't been demonically resurrected or anything, has he? So he's never died?

Lucius the Eternal has been bested, at least that's what his fluff would have us believe. (Multiple times.)

 Jimsolo wrote:
Kharn hasn't been demonically resurrected or anything, has he? So he's never died?

Lucius the Eternal has been bested, at least that's what his fluff would have us believe. (Multiple times.)

Kharn died at the end of the siege of Terra I believe. And possibly in Istvaan III (Galaxy in Flames).
But I agree with you that he would beat Lucius. The whole rezzing in your enemies body is cool, but when you die in most of your appearances (Some Raven Guard in the HH I think) it seems a bit cheap.

Kharn never misses. He only misses if there is nobody else around.

But he's tricky, because part of his prowess in CC is the nature of his weapon. How would he do without Gorechild? His WS is 7, while an Avatar or Bloodthirster are 10.

 Robin5t wrote:
Are we actually including gods, though? They're basically impossible to quantify.

For clarity, no gods are permitted.

Otherwise, a similar thread about DC comics characters would just have Anti-Monitor et al trolling the other combatants to death

Do C'tan count as gods? Do their shards?

Put me down for Abbadon.

 djones520 wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

mrfrosty wrote:
Includes: Phoenix Lords, Cypher, crazy Dark Eldar arena peeps, Kharn, major Necron figures, etc.
Basically, if they all go 1-on-1 (then are resurrected) to fight in a round-robin style where everyone fights everyone at least once - who ends up with the most wins?

The Emperor. Or Horus. Both could be a handful in an one on one.

Depends, pre-demon Horus, or post? A number of the Primarchs would have punk'd Horus, prior to his ascension.

Also the Emperor beats Horus by a longshot

After reading "The Beast Arises" I would say that The Beast is no slouch in melee and is able to go toe to toe with a Primarch.

At the same time, the closest thing we can get to Khorne manifesting directly is Ann'Grath The Unbound - who is explicitely stated to be the most powerful of Khorne's daemons*.

And has been beaten down in each of the three occasions he's showed up - getting beaten down (in order of increasing embarrassment) by Lorgar Aurelian (a primarch), Marneus Augustus Calgar (a space marine) and Inquisitor Hector Rex (a mortal human).

Kind of Worf syndrome, sadly. Not that it doesn't make Hector Rex look ****ing badass.

* Yes, I know - that's not Khorne himself but it's as close as we can get in an actual battlefield in a real place.

How is this even an argument? Kaldor Draigo is canonically the most powerful being in the setting. Not even the Chaos gods can beat him. He lives in the Warp and doesn't afraid of anything.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
How is this even an argument? Kaldor Draigo is canonically the most powerful being in the setting. Not even the Chaos gods can beat him. He lives in the Warp and doesn't afraid of anything.

Or is that what the Chaos gods want him to think? My joking vote is still for Creed, Marbo or Cain

Certain questions only have one answer.
Someone asks " Who'd win? Batman or.." just cut them off there. No need for the second name because Batman wins.
Same thing here. " Who'd win? Kharn or..." Kharn. Every. Single. Time.

I think Kharn has the highest combination of combat experience and body-kinesthetic intelligence in the setting, easily. However, he suffers from limitations based on his physiology (space marines being built for durability rather than flexibility).

My vote remains for Lelith Hesperax; she's her body-kinesthetic intelligence is at least in the ballpark of Kharn's, and her body is capable of utilizing it to a degree that Kharn's is not.

Kharn has been undefeated for millenia. Lelith Hesperax has only been around a fraction of that time, (reasonably interpreted as centuries) but has never even sustained serious injury.

locarno24 wrote:
At the same time, the closest thing we can get to Khorne manifesting directly is Ann'Grath The Unbound - who is explicitely stated to be the most powerful of Khorne's daemons*.

And has been beaten down in each of the three occasions he's showed up - getting beaten down (in order of increasing embarrassment) by Lorgar Aurelian (a primarch), Marneus Augustus Calgar (a space marine) and Inquisitor Hector Rex (a mortal human).

Kind of Worf syndrome, sadly. Not that it doesn't make Hector Rex look ****ing badass.

* Yes, I know - that's not Khorne himself but it's as close as we can get in an actual battlefield in a real place.

When was Ann'Grath defeated by Calgar? I don't recall that fight.

Skarrbrand. 888p of pure combat badassery.

 Nerak wrote:
Skarrbrand. 888p of pure combat badassery.

No he isn't. Skarbrand is about 250 points - he's the one with the broken wings. Ann'Grath is the 888 point one, and - not to put too fine a point on it - has been kicked into touch each time he's narratively appeared in a battle, by Lorgar (fair enough), Marneus Calgar (okay.....), and Inquisitor Hector Rex (that's one seriously impressive dude).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xathrodox86 wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
At the same time, the closest thing we can get to Khorne manifesting directly is Ann'Grath The Unbound - who is explicitely stated to be the most powerful of Khorne's daemons*.

And has been beaten down in each of the three occasions he's showed up - getting beaten down (in order of increasing embarrassment) by Lorgar Aurelian (a primarch), Marneus Augustus Calgar (a space marine) and Inquisitor Hector Rex (a mortal human).

Kind of Worf syndrome, sadly. Not that it doesn't make Hector Rex look ****ing badass.

* Yes, I know - that's not Khorne himself but it's as close as we can get in an actual battlefield in a real place.

When was Ann'Grath defeated by Calgar? I don't recall that fight.

Blood Oath (the massive display at warhammer world, and accompanying campaign book). The final duel is between the two of them at the top of Gulliman's shrine. Calgar (who does get wounded, to be fair, and whose honour guard don't last very long) manages to pulverise Ann'Grath's skull between the gauntlets of macragge.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'll put my money behind Lelith Hesperax.

OK, I'll put my cash on the Solitaire (damn I'd love to see/ read/ play out that fight)

 Torus wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'll put my money behind Lelith Hesperax.

OK, I'll put my cash on the Solitaire (damn I'd love to see/ read/ play out that fight)

Ask, and thou shalt receive.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Torus wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'll put my money behind Lelith Hesperax.

OK, I'll put my cash on the Solitaire (damn I'd love to see/ read/ play out that fight)

Ask, and thou shalt receive.

Now that was certainly a fun read

 Jimsolo wrote:


Kharn has been undefeated for millenia. Lelith Hesperax has only been around a fraction of that time, (reasonably interpreted as centuries) but has never even sustained serious injury.

What makes you think Lelith is so young? She takes part in Vects coupe in M.35, and at this point she is already leading the cult of strife and has made a name for herself, suggesting she's been an important figure in the Cult scene for a while since. I'd guess she is at least 6 thousand years old (1 thousand years to get to the top, 5 thousand at the top) and to still be at the top of her game in the arena must put her in the top contenders.

PourSpelur wrote:
Certain questions only have one answer.
Someone asks " Who'd win? Batman or.." just cut them off there. No need for the second name because Batman wins.
Same thing here. " Who'd win? Kharn or..." Kharn. Every. Single. Time.

Kharn wasn't doing too hot against Abaddon in the last of the Red Path books, but the fight ended due to surprise Bloodthirster.

Personally I'd only look at mortals, so I'd exclude Daemons and Phoenix Lords and such, based on that, I'd also say Lelith Hesperax is probably the single best 1-on-1 fighter alive currently.

locarno24 wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
Skarrbrand. 888p of pure combat badassery.

No he isn't. Skarbrand is about 250 points - he's the one with the broken wings. Ann'Grath is the 888 point one, and - not to put too fine a point on it - has been kicked into touch each time he's narratively appeared in a battle, by Lorgar (fair enough), Marneus Calgar (okay.....), and Inquisitor Hector Rex (that's one seriously impressive dude).

Ah, my bad.

With my A pick gone I'm gonna go with B.

The Custodes Captain. You know, the guy who's sparred against primarchs and won, boarded and survived Horus flagship and has been fighting deamons nonstop for the last 10.000 years.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:


Kharn has been undefeated for millenia. Lelith Hesperax has only been around a fraction of that time, (reasonably interpreted as centuries) but has never even sustained serious injury.

What makes you think Lelith is so young? She takes part in Vects coupe in M.35, and at this point she is already leading the cult of strife and has made a name for herself, suggesting she's been an important figure in the Cult scene for a while since. I'd guess she is at least 6 thousand years old (1 thousand years to get to the top, 5 thousand at the top) and to still be at the top of her game in the arena must put her in the top contenders.

Good points, she is older than I was remembering. (She's still quite a bit younger than Kharn though.)