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Genestealers seem like they finally have rules which match their fluff.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Has anyone verified the GSC's levels of alliance on the chart?

Thematically, they should have no allies, but I bet they end up being desperate allies to the Astra Militarum or possibly the forces of Chaos.

Had a quick look through the new white dwarf when I got home from work. My god the new cult minis look sweet. Hmm do I need another new force.
Would look good against my Krieg tank company. Love the new wheeled truck.

 gorgon wrote:

Caederes wrote:

Tyranid607 wrote:

yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed

Guys. Guys. Purestrain Genestealers have 3 attacks base now (from what I can tell from the stat page) and a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
Wow. They also get Shrouded for the first game turn in the Cult Insurrection detachment and have an in-built means of disappearing and reappearing around the battlefield.

Points cost matters, but yeah, it looks like they finally acknowledged that 4 arms and teeth should net you more than 2 attacks. FINALLY some changes to the basic profile.

I checked his earlier posts, apparently they are 13 points each. Not sure how much better a 13 point Genestealer with 3 attacks base and a 5+ invulnerable save along with all the extra special rules like Hit and Run and so on are than the ones in the Tyranid codex though, I haven't looked at them in ages. I'm guessing the answer is "hugely"? They sound like they could actually be a decent unit now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the Cults alliance with other armies, Tyranid607 confirmed they are Allies of Convenience with Astra Militarum and Tyranids, but are Come the Apocalypse with everyone else.

If anyone wants a summary of all the leaked rules stuff we have so far, check my post in the previous page; it's a large one and hard to miss.

If you want a summary on this page, basically, Genestealers themselves have been mega-buffed and the codex looks like it's going to be really fun, unique and seemingly fairly powerful too.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Has anyone verified the GSC's levels of alliance on the chart?

Thematically, they should have no allies, but I bet they end up being desperate allies to the Astra Militarum or possibly the forces of Chaos.

I'm hoping for that to be the case, as CSM/KDK are my primary armies. Less about being "allies" in the truest sense as the cult capitalizing on a chaos incursion to take out the stronger force before taking out the chaos forces. Or, the Khornate dudes taking whatever skulls they can to maximize bloodshed.

*edit*

Well, nuts to that idea. It can still work, I'll just have to be more careful.

Well next thing is to ask the FAQ boys to update the Tyranid ones in the same way as they updated Marine Dreadnought attacks

Any details yet on what the Broodmind psychic powers are?

Caederes wrote:
Cheers for all your answers Tyranid607, the codex leak confirms everything you've said so far. We really appreciate it!

There's still a few things I think we're all eager to find out though;
What are the Broodmind powers?
What are the Warlord Traits?
What are the Relics and what do they do?

Lastly, what are the points costs like on the units? Thanks again!

Just re-posting for the new page so hopefully Tyranid607 sees it Thanks again buddy.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Well next thing is to ask the FAQ boys to update the Tyranid ones in the same way as they updated Marine Dreadnought attacks

Doubtful - the designer preview video they specifically said the genestealers sent out ahead of the Hive Fleets are better versions than the more disposable shock troops in a Tyranid force.

Caederes wrote:
As for the Cults alliance with other armies, Tyranid607 confirmed they are Allies of Convenience with Astra Militarum and Tyranids, but are Come the Apocalypse with everyone else.

I would have expected them to be Come the Apocalypse with everything - I guess their reasoning for Tyranids is some kind of control over the invasion force to leave the Genestealer Cult as their last meal, but I always thought they would have been indiscriminately devoured upon sight by any Tyranid outside of the Cult.

As for Astra Militarum... I was hoping my statement was a joke and nothing more. Unfortunately, it's worse. I don't really care about the consequences of their potential allies game wise, only lore wise, which I deem to be unconvincing.

Caederes wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Caederes wrote:

Tyranid607 wrote:

yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed

Guys. Guys. Purestrain Genestealers have 3 attacks base now (from what I can tell from the stat page) and a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
Wow. They also get Shrouded for the first game turn in the Cult Insurrection detachment and have an in-built means of disappearing and reappearing around the battlefield.

Points cost matters, but yeah, it looks like they finally acknowledged that 4 arms and teeth should net you more than 2 attacks. FINALLY some changes to the basic profile.

I checked his earlier posts, apparently they are 13 points each. Not sure how much better a 13 point Genestealer with 3 attacks base and a 5+ invulnerable save along with all the extra special rules like Hit and Run and so on are than the ones in the Tyranid codex though, I haven't looked at them in ages. I'm guessing the answer is "hugely"? They sound like they could actually be a decent unit now.

Well, thats 1 extra attack base, a 5+invuln that they didn't have before and hopefully they've kept the Hit and Run and maybe even Stealth from the DW:O set. And if they're really 13ppm, it's all that for 1 point less than they are in the Nids Codex!

AM makes perfect sense as allies for the Cult, as every single human model in an army with Cult units in it can be considered a Brood Brother (or whatever they're called right now).

Hell, it makes more sense for the Cult to ally with AM than it does for them to get along with Nids. Nids should have no allies whatsoever.

Due to the Broodmind of the Cult I would think the Tyranid Hive Mind would see them as a friendly asset to utilise until the planet is conquored and everything gets eaten anyway (including the nid ground forces).

Not sure why people keep thinking nids would insta-nom the GSC.

 General Annoyance wrote:

Caederes wrote:
As for the Cults alliance with other armies, Tyranid607 confirmed they are Allies of Convenience with Astra Militarum and Tyranids, but are Come the Apocalypse with everyone else.

I would have expected them to be Come the Apocalypse with everything - I guess their reasoning for Tyranids is some kind of control over the invasion force to leave the Genestealer Cult as their last meal, but I always thought they would have been indiscriminately devoured upon sight by any Tyranid outside of the Cult.

As for Astra Militarum... I was hoping my statement was a joke and nothing more. Unfortunately, it's worse. I don't really care about the consequences of their potential allies game wise, only lore wise, which I deem to be unconvincing.

You find the idea that they can infiltrate and take over a locally stationed AM regiment unconvincing? You do know thats a large part of the point of a Genestealer Cult?

So its possible to build mulitple unit of super stealers that can infiltrate at 20 with 5 plus inv and 3+ fnp with shrouded on first turn whilst also been able go back into reserve to not only avoid shutting but heal d6 of their numbers plus possibly assault next turn, also you can have one uber unit that gains assault grenades (1 third of the time). this is great!

These are the relics:

Icon of the Cult Ascendant
Friendly units that have the Genestealer Cult Faction and are withing 12" of a model equipped with the Icon of the Cult Ascendant have the Furious Charge special rule and can re-roll failed Morale, Pinning and Fear tests. In addition, models in the same unit as the Icon of the Cult Ascendant have +1 whilst the bearer is alive


Dagger of Swift Sacrifice
Strenght User, AP -, Melee, Istant Death, Poisoned 2+

Scourge of Distant Stars
Whilst in a challenge with the bearer, the opponent must first make a Toughness test. If the opponent does not pass such test, he immediately takes a Wound with any kind of save allowed and gets his Attacks and Initiative characteristics reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1) until the end of the Fight subphase-


Staff of the Subterrenean Master
Range 18", Strenght 2, AP -, Assault 10, Ignores Cover, Rending


Sword of the Void's Eye
Strenght +1, AP 3, Melee, Bio-sentience (Reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1), Life Drain (Istant Death on a To Wound roll of 6)


The Crouchling
Adds another +2 Strenght 4, AP -, Rending melee attacks (perhaps stackable with both the 2 familiars you can take for every character) and gives you another ADDITIONAL (so only Patriarch and Magus) Psychic power at the start of the game

 BloodGrin wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Motograter wrote:
The gs cult datacards are the last of the datacards. No more updates after these. Sign 8th wont use datacards?

One can hope because this sounds like the death of the random freakin table roll for everything. My guess is this means GW is trying to make games faster by removing some of the excessive setup time and random riling elements.

You still roll for table side, you would still roll for objectives, and still roll for first turn/ deploy and still roll for night fighting.
This would change nothing for rolling.
Unless you were too lazy to own the cards and had people wait on you to roll your cards every turn.

Plus this does not effect the generic deck or the new deck.

Completely off topic but we are talking about 8th Ed and you should not know of any of that is true. Hence why I said I hope there is less random table rolls.

Caederes wrote:
Cheers for all your answers Tyranid607, the codex leak confirms everything you've said so far. We really appreciate it!

There's still a few things I think we're all eager to find out though;
What are the Broodmind powers?
What are the Warlord Traits?
What are the Relics and what do they do?

Lastly, what are the points costs like on the units? Thanks again!

broodmind
primars power warp charge 1/ malediction single unit within 24" reduce WS/BS/I/A by 1 to a min of 1
psychic stimulus warp charge 1/ blessing frdly unit not in combat gain relentless and fleet, can charge even ran in shooting phase
psionic blast 1/ witchfire 24" S5 Ap3 Assult 1 Blast
Might from beyond 1/ blessing a frdly unit 24" +1S and gain rage
mental onslaught 2/ focussed witchfire 24" both Psyker and target model roll a dice + LDS, if drawn target model -3I until next turn. if Psyker is higher, target suffer wound equal to the difference and no armor and cover saves are allowed
mind control 2/ focussed witchfire targets a single non-vehicle unit not lock in combat and makes shooting attack exactly as if it were one of your model
telepathic summons 2 or 3/ choose 2 or 3, conjuration create a single unit , 2 = 5 Acolyte or 5 Metamorphs or 10 Neophyte, 3 = 10 Acolyte or 10 Metamorphs or 20 Neophyte or 4 aberants or 8 genestealer, these model can be equipped with ANY UPGRADES list on their data sheet

Warlord trait
1. Steath
2. frdly unit of GSC have counter-attack with 12" of warlord
3. Move through cover, warlord and his unit never suffer penalty to I for charging through difficult terrain
4.It will not die
5. all model in your warlords detachment can use his LD
6.When using vult ambush with any unit he joined, do not roll on the ambush table, you can choose a result

relics
1.icon of the cult/ frdly unit within 12" of bearer have furious charge and can reroll failed Morale/pinning/feat test, model in same unit of bearer +1 A
2. dagger of swift sacrifice/ can instead make a single atk rolling to hit as normal S user Instant Death/Poisoned(2+)
3. Scourge of distat stars/ bearer involved in a challenge, their opponent must pas a T test before any attack are made, if fail that model suffer a wound with no save of any kind allowd and -1 I + Auntil the end of phase
4 staff of the subterran master / shooting attack 18" S2 AP- Assauly 10/Ignore cover/Rending
5 Sword of the void's eye/ +1S AP3, reroll to hit and to wound of 1 and to wound of 6 has the instant death rule
6. the crouchling in CCB make additional 2 S4 AP- Rending attack, bearer can generate one additional psychic power at the start of game

 Mr Morden wrote:
Well next thing is to ask the FAQ boys to update the Tyranid ones in the same way as they updated Marine Dreadnought attacks

they've very specifically said the genestealer cult stealers are intentionally more powerful than a standard tyranid stealer

so that's not going to work

That staff sounds like it can get silly if you managed to get Shred on it

Those broodmind powers look bonkers. Especially the summoning one..yikes.

 Imateria wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Caederes wrote:

Tyranid607 wrote:

yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed

Guys. Guys. Purestrain Genestealers have 3 attacks base now (from what I can tell from the stat page) and a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
Wow. They also get Shrouded for the first game turn in the Cult Insurrection detachment and have an in-built means of disappearing and reappearing around the battlefield.

Points cost matters, but yeah, it looks like they finally acknowledged that 4 arms and teeth should net you more than 2 attacks. FINALLY some changes to the basic profile.

I checked his earlier posts, apparently they are 13 points each. Not sure how much better a 13 point Genestealer with 3 attacks base and a 5+ invulnerable save along with all the extra special rules like Hit and Run and so on are than the ones in the Tyranid codex though, I haven't looked at them in ages. I'm guessing the answer is "hugely"? They sound like they could actually be a decent unit now.

Well, thats 1 extra attack base, a 5+invuln that they didn't have before and hopefully they've kept the Hit and Run and maybe even Stealth from the DW:O set. And if they're really 13ppm, it's all that for 1 point less than they are in the Nids Codex!

no model in the codex can hit and run

genestealers special rules are Cult ambush/Fleet/infiltrate/Moe through cover/return to shadows/steath

 oldzoggy wrote:
When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.

I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts

Just look at the time...

His Master's Voice wrote:AM makes perfect sense as allies for the Cult, as every single human model in an army with Cult units in it can be considered a Brood Brother (or whatever they're called right now).

Hell, it makes more sense for the Cult to ally with AM than it does for them to get along with Nids. Nids should have no allies whatsoever.

Imateria wrote:
You find the idea that they can infiltrate and take over a locally stationed AM regiment unconvincing? You do know thats a large part of the point of a Genestealer Cult?

So why aren't they declared as Battle Brothers then? Also, explain how special characters will factor into an alliance while still being lore friendly - it makes more sense for IG equipment to just be included in their Codex, or a disclaimer saying they can use X specific units from the AM Codex.

Nostromodamus wrote:Due to the Broodmind of the Cult I would think the Tyranid Hive Mind would see them as a friendly asset to utilise until the planet is conquered and everything gets eaten anyway (including the nid ground forces).

Not sure why people keep thinking nids would insta-nom the GSC.

Guess that's open to interpretation - I can't find anything to disclose this either way, only this from Lexicanum: "However, after the planet comes to the Hive Fleet's notice, the destiny of the cult is sealed, because all surviving members are absorbed like the rest of the planet".

Also I don't mind the buff to Genestealers, but is there really a good reason they have a 5++ in the codex?

Tyranid607 wrote:

Caederes wrote:
Cheers for all your answers Tyranid607, the codex leak confirms everything you've said so far. We really appreciate it!

There's still a few things I think we're all eager to find out though;
What are the Broodmind powers?
What are the Warlord Traits?
What are the Relics and what do they do?

Lastly, what are the points costs like on the units? Thanks again!

broodmind
primars power warp charge 1/ malediction single unit within 24" reduce WS/BS/I/A by 1 to a min of 1
psychic stimulus warp charge 1/ blessing frdly unit not in combat gain relentless and fleet, can charge even ran in shooting phase
psionic blast 1/ witchfire 24" S5 Ap3 Assult 1 Blast
Might from beyond 1/ blessing a frdly unit 24" +1S and gain rage
mental onslaught 2/ focussed witchfire 24" both Psyker and target model roll a dice + LDS, if drawn target model -3I until next turn. if Psyker is higher, target suffer wound equal to the difference and no armor and cover saves are allowed
mind control 2/ focussed witchfire targets a single non-vehicle unit not lock in combat and makes shooting attack exactly as if it were one of your model
telepathic summons 2 or 3/ choose 2 or 3, conjuration create a single unit , 2 = 5 Acolyte or 5 Metamorphs or 10 Neophyte, 3 = 10 Acolyte or 10 Metamorphs or 20 Neophyte or 4 aberants or 8 genestealer, these model can be equipped with ANY UPGRADES list on their data sheet

Warlord trait
1. Steath
2. frdly unit of GSC have counter-attack with 12" of warlord
3. Move through cover, warlord and his unit never suffer penalty to I for charging through difficult terrain
4.It will not die
5. all model in your warlords detachment can use his LD
6.When using vult ambush with any unit he joined, do not roll on the ambush table, you can choose a result

relics
1.icon of the cult/ frdly unit within 12" of bearer have furious charge and can reroll failed Morale/pinning/feat test, model in same unit of bearer +1 A
2. dagger of swift sacrifice/ can instead make a single atk rolling to hit as normal S user Instant Death/Poisoned(2+)
3. Scourge of distat stars/ bearer involved in a challenge, their opponent must pas a T test before any attack are made, if fail that model suffer a wound with no save of any kind allowd and -1 I + Auntil the end of phase
4 staff of the subterran master / shooting attack 18" S2 AP- Assauly 10/Ignore cover/Rending
5 Sword of the void's eye/ +1S AP3, reroll to hit and to wound of 1 and to wound of 6 has the instant death rule
6. the crouchling in CCB make additional 2 S4 AP- Rending attack, bearer can generate one additional psychic power at the start of game

Holy...Umm. Broodmind powers are insane. WC1 S5 AP3 blasts? Mass buffs including running and charging or +1 Strength and Rage, or mass debuffs and character assassination spells? A power that lets you shoot an enemy unit that's not in close combat at WC2 (WHAT, Chaos gets that power in a formation only and for WC3! WHAT), and a power that SUMMONS MORE CULTISTS????????????

Warlord Traits are decent, but that number 6....hilarious. If you get that trait (use the re-roll!) you can guarantee a Patriarch (for example) and a big unit of Purestrains can pop up right next to an enemy unit and charge them when they arrive. WOAH!

Relics seem pretty good but obviously we need to see the points to make good judgements. The Icon sounds like fun but other than the +1 attack and Furious Charge could well be superfluous if you have him near a Patriarch for the Fearless aura. The Dagger seems...eh. Provided the Primus' kept Rending as a special rule, it has potential, but at that point you'd just rather the Bonesword I think. Still, not bad. The Scourge would stack really well with Enfeeble from Biomancy. The Staff is funny as it's essentially guaranteed at least one Rend on a BS4 model. The Sword of the Void's Eye sounds tailor made for the Patriarch or the Primus, S7 AP3, re-rolling 1s to hit and wound with 6s being Instant Death, or the Primus who adds Rending to it (again, if he kept that as a special rule). And a familiar that gives an extra power to the Cults' cheap psykers? Also nice.

I'm liking the sound of all this, especially the Broodmind powers. That discipline makes me shudder.

EDIT: No Hit and Run in the codex, that sucks. The Patriarch profile does kinda confirm this. Oh well. Still, Purestrains sound like a really fun unit.
Also, can I just get another holla for Broodmind? The Primaris is one of the better Maledictions I've seen considering the Cult wants to be in combat. The power that lets them shoot with an enemy unit is absolutely bananas, as is the summoning spell. Genestealer Cult units might be cheap, but they are deceptively dangerous - especially the Acolytes and now the Metamorphs. Getting them for free without the massive risks that Malefic Daemonology imposes to non-Chaos psykers is simply incredible. Those two powers...game-changers, that's for damn sure. It helps that Genestealer Cult psykers are incredibly cheap! The rest of the powers in the discipline are pretty good too. The character assassination spell is a classic counter to monstrous creatures, Strength 5 AP3 small blasts at WC1 will ravage Marines and lighter infantry, giving Relentless + Fleet + Run and Charge for WC1 to things like Purestrains and Aberrants is bonkers, and +1 Strength and Rage for a whole unit? Yeah, umm...take a big unit of Acolytes. Stack +1 Strength, Rage, Fleet, Run and Charge on them. Get the Inconward for Furious Charge. Get the Primus for (hopefully he kept this) Zealot. Unleash the beast. Suddenly all those WS4 I4 Rending attacks with assault grenades handy will tear apart anything in the game, and they can potentially auto-charge on turn two without being shot at once And if you don't get those powers, you get the nasty witchfires or the ridiculous last two spells. Win-win. Is Broodmind one of the strongest disciplines in the game now?

CaptainSomas wrote:
Those broodmind powers look bonkers. Especially the summoning one..yikes.

And MIND CONTROL is back!
Hey...Wraith Knight....how about shoot your D's nutz at your buddy over there.
or
Hey Broadside....all of those ignores cover misses look kind of heavy in that pod....why don't you let me aim them for you!

How much points are neophytes?

More like this....hi Stormsurge. What's that? You have one-use-only missiles that rip apart Broadsides and Riptides? What about those secondary weapons that scythe through Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors/Kroot? Or how about your main gun that destroys pretty much any non-monstrous unit that Tau have?

This discipline scares the bajeezus out of me as someone who isn't a Cult player.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's a good point actually, @Tyranid607 how much do individual Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs cost? Are they similar to those in Deathwatch: Overkill? Are Acolytes still Fearless?

Thanks again, you're doing an awesome job!

 conker249 wrote:
It would be cool if the Genestealer claws shown in the transport(not the dozer bladed one) was an option to add a single purestrain one to buff the squad. Kinda like a "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!"

The text of the conversion article says they used a Familiar. That's what's poking out of the luggage compartment.